The Amazon Rainforest Wants Its TLD Back From Amazon.com 186
terrancem writes "The Seattle-based Amazon.com has applied for its brand to be a generic top-level domain name (.amazon), but South American governments argue this would prevent the use of this internet address for environmental protection, the promotion of indigenous rights and other public interest uses. Along with dozens of other disputed claims to names including ".patagonia" and ".shangrila", the issue cuts to the heart of debates about the purpose and governance of the internet."
Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:5, Funny)
You better call Captain Planet, South America.
Because little Jeff Bezos ain't giving that up without a serious fight.
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:5, Insightful)
Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
Creating all of these new TLDs is nothing but a money making scam for ICANN.
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:5, Insightful)
Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
Creating all of these new TLDs is nothing but a money making scam for ICANN.
Oh, not to worry, with the number of sneaky URL-lookalikes that a combination of gTLDs and unicode support will allow, it won't just be ICANN pulling off money making scams...
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ICANN could make even more money:
Once you visit ".amazon", you'd see a page saying: "which amazon did you mean? the rainforest, or the bookstore?"
This would allow them to sell the TLD more than once. And, on the redirection page, they could show some ads as well!
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I go to .ca every days. I live in Canada. I also visit a lot of .fr, .de, .se and .uk, to name a few.
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:5, Interesting)
I go to .ca every days. I live in Canada. I also visit a lot of .fr, .de, .se and .uk, to name a few.
So do I but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't know how it works, but I would imagine that I can't register a .ca domain if I'm not in Canada. (If you can then the system is even more fucked up than I thought).
But anyone can register a domain using one of the hundreds of proposed new domains. And with the combination of those new TLDs, Unicode and a shady registrar, people will be able to create all sorts of sneaky look-a-like websites. Sure, they're doing that now, but things are about to get a whole lot worse.
And meanwhile, nobody is going to type whatever.amazon into their web browser. They're just going to keep going to amazon.com. It's their name. In all of their advertisements, including TV commercials, they don't call themselves Amazon. They call themselves Amazon Dot Com.
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:4, Interesting)
nobody is going to type whatever.amazon into their web browser. They're just going to keep going to amazon.com.
That's a very short-sighted way of looking at it.
Think "rivers.amazon, fauna.amazon, flora.amazon, etc" or alternatively, "books.amazon, movies.amazon, cheap_crap.amazon etc".
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That's a very short-sighted way of looking at it.
Think "books.amazon, movies.amazon, cheap_crap.amazon etc".
And nobody is going to do that. Amazon had spent many years branding themselves as Amazon Dot Com.
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Maybe Google will start allowing people to purchase their names so that a search for "Amazon" goes to amazon.com versus a search landing page.
Do no evil.(tm)
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And rivers.amazon will send you to a site selling books about rivers.
Remember: the .amazon tld is, when it's issued, controlled by the book selling company Amazon, Inc. It's effectively shorthand for amazon.com.
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And whats wrong with books.amazon.com, or amazon.com/books ?
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You may not be able to register a .ca from outside Canada, but you can register .cx outside Christmas Island .tv outside Tuvalu .bz outside Belize .to outside Tonga .mx outside Mexico .es outside Spain .in outside India
This is not a complete list -- for example, I haven't mentioned that you can register .cc outside the Cocos Islands. I'm just pointing out that you can register some country code TLDs outside that country. That's probably true of most .tv domains and is possible even with larger countries l
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First I was thinking allowing any corporation to control a TLD seemed stupid and against the spirit of ICANN/"The Internet" - but you make an interesting point. If *.amazon guarantees you are going to an Amazon site and *.amazontypo isn't allowed because TLDs are carefully allocated instead of allowing any phisher to do it on Godaddy, it might be a good thing in that respect, at least...
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icann is as corrupt as any corporation
What do you think the "C" stands for?
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you can register .cx outside Christmas Island
Quick, a spoon! I need to gouge my eyes out real quick! .ca, cz, and ch a couple of years ago...)
(btw, that would have worked just as well with
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You can in some countries, and cannot in others. co.il is open, AFAIK, to everyone. Some countries ("tv" and "to", for example) are explicitly open to everyone, so much so that hardly anyone in that domain is from that country. Effectively, these are as generic as "biz" and "info", possibly even more so.
On the other hand, both "net" and "com" used to require presence in the USA for the critical first years of the Internet. Back in 1996, a company I worked for had to create a POB in the US just to register a
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IIRC, to this day, EDU and GOV are only open for US based registrants, and are in no way "generic".
polytechnique.edu [polytechnique.edu]
solvay.edu [solvay.edu]
nist.edu [nist.edu] (an unexpected one, with no relation whatsoever to nist.gov...)
kit.edu [kit.edu]
au.edu [au.edu]
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Still, he's correct that it's only *open* to US institutions. It's just that anyone who managed to get a domain before 2001 were grandfathered in.
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Not necessarily. my shop is called "arcana" and i wanted a .na domain: "arca.na". it was available (and I dont live in Namibia) but for $2K/yr...
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Many countries allow foreigners to register domains with them. Ever used bit.ly? That ly is Libya. What about goo.gl? The gl is for Greenland. Stuff that ends in .to? Tonga. Quite a few do not, of course, but a few of them have opened them up and seen widespread use as a result.
As for people registering domains under the new TLDs, those TLDs are not all open for public use. In fact, the vast majority of them are not open to public use at all. Amazon certainly isn't going to be letting you register rudy_wayn
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And here I was thinking youtu.be was hosted in Belgium...
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For many of the country TLDs (e.g. .ch and .in) you are meant to have an address in that country. For some of them you even have to actually live there. But for many, e.g. .tv, .me, .be and other European and Pacific Island ones, you can register whatever, and however many you want, so long as you have the cash.
The system is fucked. Who would have thought it.
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I only regularly visit one .cx, though.
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In contrast more than a decade ago I proposed a .here TLD (something like RFC1918 IPv4 addresses but for TLDs) to both the IETF: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yeoh-tldhere-01 [ietf.org] and the ICANN.
People back then said use .local or .localhost. But: .local was only reserved as of Feb 2013. .local etc would be more for "machine usage" - existing stuff already use these things in certain ways (Apple's Bonjour). .local might be filled by with hostnames, where
1) AFAIK these weren't even officially reserved either!
2)
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I am well aware that Americans, as a rule, have trouble seeing past the end of their noses, but just to answer your question, I go to .co.il sites all the time. I operate a couple of .org.il sites. My own site (which is mostly used for personal email) operates at biz (check out my email address to verify it's not spam).
I also, fairly commonly, browse to country sites outside of my own. co.uk is not unheard of in my browser's history.
Yes, the "generic" TLDs are the most sought after, and I highly doubt the n
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Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
On the contrary, it's daily, and multiple domains.
All of which are ccTLDs however, and I completely agree about
the stupidity and uselessness of TLD spam.
All "big players" will want to register their name with all new TLDs to redirect to
their canonical ones. I smirk at something like http://google.amazon - now where
will you end up with that one? Phising just isn't easy enough nowadays, right?
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Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
On the contrary, it's daily, and multiple domains.
My original statement was poorly worded. I was referring to .info, .biz and all those, Not country-specific ones like .uk, .ca or .au. . I have yet to see any widespread usage of .biz or .info or any of the many other TLDs that exist. All comments I have ever seen have been along the lines of "I registered a [whatever] domain name and it never took off" or "People get confused and think my website is "something.biz.com" due to the fact that so many people associate dot com with the Internet.
And
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That's just ignorance on your part, I'm afraid.
Some countries choose to have only a closed set of second level domain names under the country TLD. You see "com.au" because you cannot register "rudy.au" if you tried (yes, it's available :-). Same goes for "co.il" and "co.uk". Under others, the second level is free for all, such as ".fr" and ".tv". Each country decides for itself h
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Well I quite frequently use .uk websites, but your point is still valid.
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If you also discount the original crop of nationalised TLDs (eg: co.uk), then my browser history would indeed suggest it's pretty rare. However, past results are no guide to future performance and I'm sure there are some pretty smart, creative mofos out there who'd have a field day with the new TLDs.
And I don't care who you are or what you sell, nations should get priority to TLDs over commercial entities. Bezos can go **** himself, over-inflated little ****.
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All the fucking time. Considering that my own website is on a .info and that I manage websites on country TLDs.
That doesn't mean that the new GTLDs are not scams by ICANN, but still.
I've said it before, I think the best bet is a distributed trust based system of domain management. PGP-like Web of Trust. Internet, make it happen!
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Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
All the time. .de, .it, .uk, .fr.................
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Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
Clearly you're American. I go to .uk sites all the time. The french go to .fr etc...
And I can certainly see the benefit of porn being swept away to it's own .xxx domain.
But yes, .amazon seems pointless for both the company and the geographical area. I suspect the company doesn't even want to use it as their primary domain, but just to stop anyone else using it.
I suggest that companies should never be allowed to own their own TLD. TLDs are for broad categorisations and a single company is never that.
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Will all these stupid new TLDs even be used? Right now, how often do you go to a legitimate website (non-spam, non-scam, non-malware) that doesn't use .com, .net, .org, .gov or .edu ? I'll bet it's pretty rare.
Creating all of these new TLDs is nothing but a money making scam for ICANN.
You do realise that there are other TLD's that dont end on .com .net et al?
Think .uk,.au,jp,nz and a whole bunch of others...
Yes I do realize that. And I also know that they are country-specific )you can't get a .ca domain if you aren't actually in Canada) and as such they serve a legitimate purpose. Unfortunately you have completely missed the point. All the new domains being proposed serve no purpose other than to make lots of money for ICANN. And to
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Unfortunately you have completely missed the point.
And you forgot this is /. and you made a sweeping statement that is only correct in some cases and the incorrect cases were considered obvious by some.
Expect the pedantic to jump on you and pummel you with their plastic lightsabers.
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This ^ is actually the problem. The whole "me" attitude. A corporate identity wants a domain because they think it will further their business. Some countries want to focus domains on what is important to them. Frankly the Amazon rainforest is of much more importance to the health of our world than the company could ever be. And anyone who wan
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Obligatory XKCD [xkcd.com].
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Frankly the Amazon rainforest is of much more importance to the health of our world than the company could ever be. And anyone who wants to promote that domain in the interest of protecting this world we live on has my blessing.
Lucky we have other suitable domains for things like this, e.g. amazon.info...
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Frankly the Amazon rainforest is of much more importance to the health of our world than the company could ever be. And anyone who wants to promote that domain in the interest of protecting this world we live on has my blessing.
I'd wager that Amazon pushing less wasteful packaging has had a bigger impact on the environment than any rain forest themed website ever has.
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I hate this new TLD crap. It's such an obvious scam from ICANN it makes my head feel like it's going to explode.
Indeed, and I'm curious, actually: what's the last thing ICANN did that wasn't an obvious scam making the Internet a bit worse in order to pump some money into their coffers (so they can afford airfare to exotic locations for their meetings, of course)...?
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:4, Funny)
There's this group of women from Mars outside waiting to meet Bezos. They said something about his puny weapon being no match for their own.
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Dude, they're from The Moon [imdb.com]
Re:Hahahahahahahaha Muahaha (Score:5, Funny)
You better call Captain Planet, South America.
Because little Jeff Bezos ain't giving that up without a serious fight.
Hey, both Amazons are leading distributors of dead trees, I think we've got a serious trademark issue here.
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You better call Captain Planet, South America.
Because little Jeff Bezos ain't giving that up without a serious fight.
Obviously, Jeff can't see the forest for the trees...
Why have TLDs at all? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why have TLDs at all? (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree, then we could organize the WWW in some meaningful way -> alt.technology. And then instead of twitter/faceook being the defacto stanard for communication, we could use IRC. Just imagine how much better the world would be if people didn't reinvent things that do a worse job then the original.
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That'll also have the pleasant^H^H^H^Hhorrible side effect of keeping all the stupid people out of any conversations. OH GOD FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Until eventually someone once again comes up with the bright idea of websitizing (honest to goodness word) IRC.
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And then instead of twitter/faceook being the defacto stanard for communication, we could use IRC. Just imagine how much better the world would be if people didn't reinvent things that do a worse job then the original.
In the past I would have said the same, but these days I think that IRC is a clunky old piece of shit that has begged a redesign for a decade.
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If they were used as intended, it would matter, but with all the campers you can't get the domain you want anyway (without shelling out a ton of cash).
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Sorry to pop your myth but over the past decade I've registered several domains, and so far haven't even had to modify my name a little bit to find an available name. There are plenty of names available - unless you insist on <generic word>.com instead of <your company name>.com - replace .com by your own country's tld and you've got even more options.
Just now I'm building up a new site, planning to register a name for it, and again: no problem. The name that I wanted is available. And this time
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Well, what then, when several companies have the same name? Just the US ones getting their name and everyone else has to change theirs or?
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Use their country's TLD of course. Like the US should have their own TLD, and use it too. that's what they are for.
Now my company also has a .com while I'm really local .hk but that's to do with cost (.com is much cheaper) and ease of registration (back then it wasn't that easy to get a .hk domain as it is now - .com was dead easy though).
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AOL tried doing this with "keywords" without much success.
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By nature of the beast you have TLDs. Whether these are .com or .amazon - the last part of the domain name is a TLD. There is no way around it. Just like area codes and country codes on telephone numbers (but written the other way around), they help in sorting out some of the mess.
The problem of course lies in how these TLDs are organised and managed. Having a few world-wide domains (.com, .org, .net, etc) plus national domains that can also basically be assigned world-wide is the big issue. Ditching these
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Sometimes I wish there were no TLDs at all. They aren't really necessary. They actually make things worse, since any owner of a domain is forced to buy several TLD versions of their domain. .
You don't understand. Yes, it's worse for you. But it's great for ICANN because it generates lots of money.
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Without TLDs, a single namespace wouldn't be enough for all domains to fit in it. Furthermore, national TLDs are necessary so that governments can manage their own portion of the internet. Nobody is forced to buy more than one domain, but if they do they have to negotiate with its previous owners, ensuring that only companies who do business in the country will try to buy a local domain. The problem is with generic TLDs only.
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Sure it would. Some domain names just wouldn't be able to have domain names of their first choice. With 64 character limit for a domain name, and the 37 different characters available in non-internationalized domain names, there's 37^64 unique domain names available, significantly larger than the estimated number of particles in the known universe.
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They actually make things worse, since any owner of a domain is forced to buy several TLD versions of their domain.
Your point is on the mark, yet the argument is a bit invalid. Facebook becomes popular, company has to get its own name on Facebook. Twitter becomes popular, has to get own name on Twitter. Mobile becomes the new thing, company needs to ensure branding of mobile app. Nothing new here.
The benefit to the market is free revenue from obsessive goofy companies that feel they need to own their name with every single TLD possible.
This really isn't necessary, but free money from misguided companies is a good thing.
"company has to get its own name on Facebook" is irrelevant. That's not the issue. It's not about "obsessive goofy companies that feel they need to own their name with every single TLD possible". It's about a business being forced to spend a lot of money to protect themself from scammers trying to use their name. If Facebook doesn't register their name with every possible TLD, then you end up with facebook.xxx, facebook.sex, facebook.biz, facebook.info, and so on.
WWF (Score:5, Interesting)
What Bezos needs to do buy and fund a TLD for the amazon. Obviously it is not going to be amazon. On the webpages have a link redirecting to the new domain. It will likely avoid huge legal costs and generate a good deal of good will.
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They both missed an opportunity to merge and create the Wildlife Wrestling Foundation. TV series dedicated to wildlife wrestling could have supported both groups.
This explains a lot (Score:2)
I was wondering whatever became of the Panda smackdown.
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I think there is a big difference here, though. World Wildlife Federation is an existing entity, whereas this is just a collection of small and fairly insignificant governments with very little political clout. I also think that the wrestling people probably figured it was a battle not worth fighting, especially after having gone through the whole WCW>WWF merger. At that point, changing the name again wasn't really a big deal.
Besides, it gave them an excuse to use macho advertising like "WWE: Get the
And what about mythological warrior women? (Score:4, Insightful)
After all, that's the origin of the name.
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And what about mythological warrior women?
The mythological warror woman lobby doesn't have as much influence as it used to. But I hear they're having a comeback.
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"that's the origin of the name."
no it isn't, it comes from Iran.
What? you think they made up new words to describe the women warriors in the stories that were telling?
The original Amazons want their name back (Score:4, Insightful)
This Mess Was Predicted (Score:5, Interesting)
I really have to wonder why anybody would have thought that it would NOT be a mess.
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I really have to wonder why anybody would have thought that it would NOT be a mess
Everyone has reasons to delude themselves. Making tonnes and tonnes of cash for doing nothing is a reason.
free market (Score:2)
Haha, well I thought the free market was the savior and one true holy way to organize everything. Just let them settle it that way, bid it out.
That was the point of the original TLDs (Score:4, Insightful)
But noooo, some bozos in charge decided that increasing the number of namespace collisions will somehow be better for their bank accou^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthe Internet.
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Note that there's no company called "Amazon". The one that's behind http://amazon.com/ [amazon.com] is actually registered as Amazon.com, Inc.
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Well, fuck. They really screwed themselves over, didn't they? "Our new URL: amazon.com.amazon"
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Or amazon.com.com, but they'd hate the cnet [wikipedia.org] affiliation.
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There's a yo dawg joke in there somewhere...
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which all use the term "Amazon" without the ".com".
Your not locked to any DNS tree. You can choose. (Score:2)
No one makes you use any particular DNS server tree. In fact you can use many. You could even have a search path for various trees. This is why it is dumb for Government/courts to block/take domain names. One can always use an alt DNS system that is out of reach from the law. That domain name system could be searched first and then fall back on the IANA one.
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Great opportunity for squatters/scammers. With all its drawbacks I still prefer the current system over your proposal. It's just that much more reliable.
on a slightly related issue (Score:2)
How are the pipfruit producers of the world doing in their battle to reclaim their good name form the company formerly run by Steve Jobs?
Re:on a slightly related issue (Score:5, Funny)
How are the pipfruit producers of the world doing in their battle to reclaim their good name form the company formerly run by Steve Jobs?
They're holding out for the payout to ripen before squeezing for a juicy settlement.
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Depends which Apple you mean :
Apple Corps Ltd
Apple Inc.
Apple Bank for Savings
Apple, British psychedelic rock band
Apple, Oklahoma, USA
or any one of the worlds Apple producers....?
Life or Work? (Score:2)
This may be an odd perspective, but I see this as a question of which philosophy do you agree with more?
(a) I work to live
(b) I live to work
I think that people who believe (a) are going to think that the .amazon TLD should go to some sort of amazon conservatory organization because life is more important than commerce.
While I would expect those who identify with (b) to be in favor of amazon.com owning the .amazon TLD. Because for those people, business is more important than life. Maybe not their life, but
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This may be an odd perspective, but I see this as a question of which philosophy do you agree with more?
(a) I work to live
(b) I live to work
I think that people who believe (a) are going to think that the .amazon TLD should go to some sort of amazon conservatory organization because life is more important than commerce.
While I would expect those who identify with (b) to be in favor of amazon.com owning the .amazon TLD. Because for those people, business is more important than life. Maybe not their life, but life of the general population.
Obviously I think (b) is a very small group. However, as small as it is, I would not be surprised to find that group (b) is largely populated by CxO types.
It's neither. The issue here, in my opinion, is putting things to good use and avoiuding confusion (and potential mischief). Creating a TLD of .amazon makes no sense.
If you give it to "some amazon conservatory organization" how many websites are they actually going to create with a URL of "something.amazon"? One? Two? What's wrong with "conserveamazon.org" or something like that? Where is the need for an entire new TLD?
If you give it to amazon (the business), what's the point? They have spent years
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And The Amazon spent decades with the name and branding themselves before Amazon.com existed.
A TLD is a huge namespace... (Score:3)
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If ICANN were actually managing this crap sanely it wouldn't be that hard to share. No reason that conservation.amazon and shopping.amazon couldn't both exist under different ownership.
Exactly! No one should own a top level domain. Imagine if the internet started that way and one company bought the entire .com TLD. This is exactly what we are seeing now.
The 1990s called... (Score:2)
...and they want their "something or other" back.
Oh, we're not doing that?
What RPMs for Jon Postel by now? (Score:2)
That sound you hear? Jon Postel [wikipedia.org] has been spinning so much he broke a bearing. Again.
Really (Score:2)
Nobody has used .amazon yet and nobody has forgotten about the bloody rainforest before it existed.
Also its South American governments that are stripping the rainforest clean, not sure they want to shine a brighter light on that...all they have to do is just stop doing that and the problem is solved.
let me settle this right now (Score:2)
Forests are bad when angry.. (Score:2)
Forests get more pissed off than Lakes when you anthropomorphise them. They reeeeealy hate it.
Not as much as Mountains, but still. I'd stay away and pay up if I were Amazon. Or ex-Amazon
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The problem is there's no such thing as "indigenous people". There's an old saying -- "If you go back far enough, everyone came from somewhere else".
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Amazon probably wants the .amazon tld to protect the "intellectual property" of their name..
Yes, I'm sure they do. And there's nothing wrong with that. But an easier way to do it is simpley don't create a TLD of .amazon. Problem solved.
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Amazon probably wants the .amazon tld to protect the "intellectual property" of their name..
Yes, I'm sure they do. And there's nothing wrong with that. But an easier way to do it is simpley don't create a TLD of .amazon. Problem solved.
That's no solution at all - ICANN dosen't get its big fat cheque!
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Please add the following line to your host file(s):
0.0.0.0 slashdot.org
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Look at all you wrote, as AC. Look a tthe efort you are going through over some issue with a web site.
Seriously, you have a mental issue and need to talk to a professional psychologist or psychiatrist.
It might be a simple anger issue, or you might be suffering from delusional paranoia. Maybe even schizophrenia.
Please, get help before you hurt someone.
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They're acting like juvenile children - "MOMMY! I don't have a candy bar - Joey shouldn't have one, either!"