No Smiles At NJ Motor Vehicle Commission 265
Reader Presto Vivace blesses us with news that the state of New Jersey "has banned motorists from making big smiles [for their license pictures] because such expressions don't work with facial recognition software." Now that passports are by decree grim and glasses-free, I'm expecting the next phase to involve the banning of facial hair, lips, and any hair that blocks the ears.
thanks for the info (Score:3)
going to be smiling big time when i get my next ID.
No smiles in Ohio (Score:5, Informative)
That's not new. No smiles in Ohio, either-- I renewed my license over a year ago, and was quite firmly instructed that smiles were not allowed in drivers license photos because it screws up the facial recognition software.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10249834-71.html [cnet.com]
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/27/states-adopting-no-smiles-policy-for-drivers-licenses/ [autoblog.com]
http://www.webanswers.com/legal/why-can-t-you-smile-in-your-drivers-license-picture-84ffba [webanswers.com]
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Nor Indiana. I wonder if they all use the same software with the same readme?
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You could just wear one of those IR light hats.....
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Or the right T-Shirt [cafepress.com] for the occasion.
Re:No smiles in Ohio (Score:5, Interesting)
You could always move to [freestateproject.org] a state that doesn't engage in such privacy invasions, such as New Hampshire. Here, you can actually check off a box on the license application form requiring them to not even store your photo in their database.
The New Hampshire Legislature also prohibited its DMV [nhliberty.org] from implementing the federal "Real ID" program which is what's driving a lot of this crap. The state also prohibits its agencies and localities from implementing red light cameras, license plate readers, &c. [state.nh.us], too.
Re:No smiles in Ohio (Score:5, Funny)
Nor the Netherlands. Seems politicians want to wipe every single smile of our faces.
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Nor the Netherlands. Seems politicians want to wipe every single smile of our faces.
Dutch stories don't count - they're harder to blame on American politics.
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Re:No smiles in Ohio (Score:4, Funny)
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I work as an engineer in ohio for the company behind all this and can tell you facial recognition never works anyhow.
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Interesting; I was at the New Castle DMV yesterday and they didn't do anything like that to me. Were you at the Wilmington DMV?
Re:No smiles in Ohio (Score:5, Funny)
I renewed my license over a year ago, and was quite firmly instructed that smiles were not allowed in drivers license photos because it screws up the facial recognition software.
That means you have to smile while driving. :-)
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So no smiles - how about grimaces, massive frowns, or even clown-like pull-your-lips-hoizontally-cross-your-eyes-and-stick-out-your-tounge?
I say treat these asshole bureaucrats with exactly the respect they deserve - either smile or pull one of the above stunts, refuse to change your expression until he snaps the picture, and refuse to move until you get your license. Can't think of a broken law there. Seriously, don't stand for this shit, people.
Re:No smiles in Ohio (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I don't think the software even "sees" glasses, they don't affect the control point recognition, but glasses can throw human-powered facial recognition off, and it's a lot easier for an official to ask you to remove your glasses when confirming your identity than to have you wear the same style as in your photo if you've changed them or are wearing contacts. Also glasses and flash photography don't get along all that well (glare hides your eyes), and do you really want *another* reason for the barely competent person at the DMV to spend three hours trying to do something simple for the person in front of you?
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Given some of the drivers licence photos I've had, I think human facial recognition doesn't need glasses to be thrown off.
One time, I renewed my driver's license and they reused the old photograph. For some reason, though, they darkened my skin in the picture. I commented at the time (pre-9-11) that I looked like I was from the Middle East. (My ancestry is Russia so the photo was very darkened.)
I can see 666 reasons why that wouldn't fly (Score:2)
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It's on the way.
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Re:thanks for the info (Score:5, Funny)
Re:thanks for the info (Score:5, Funny)
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We smile all the time, just not when you're around.
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Well that rule can't be too hard to enforce. I mean these people are already in New Jersey, and they are at the DMV to boot. I don't think you can get closer to hell.
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Well you can, but the Devil will require you to get a NJ drivers license before he lets you past the gates...
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Hope you like walking. They can simply refuse to issue your new ID. And if you argue, you can be taken in by the cops for causing a disturbance.
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Put some foam fillers in your upper gums before the picture is taken, and squint your eyes like a Chinese sweatshop worker.
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going to be smiling big time when i get my next ID.
Easy fix (sort of).
Just refuse to apply for state ID or driver's licenses. If 100's of thousands or millions of drivers refuse to apply for licenses and drive anyway, are they going to shut down the streets and roads? Arrest a large proportion of the entire state's population?
Where does your state store the facial recognition data? Would Molotov cocktails in the facial data storage drive racks affect facial recognition data integrity?
I'm sick and tired of this emerging police state. You're *far* more likely
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What's that? No, no, I don't know that guy. Never saw him before in my life.
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Re:thanks for the info (Score:5, Interesting)
going to be smiling big time when i get my next ID.
Easy fix (sort of).
Just refuse to apply for state ID or driver's licenses.
Yup, and lose your ability to drive, vote, have access to government buildings and services...
Not being arch, just pointing out facts.
If 100's of thousands or millions of drivers refuse to apply for licenses and drive anyway, are they going to shut down the streets and roads? Arrest a large proportion of the entire state's population?
Nah, they'll just turn it into another revenue-generation mechanism and continue pounding our collective asses, just from a different angle.
I'm sick and tired of this emerging police state. You're *far* more likely to be struck by lightning or be attacked by sharks than to be killed by a terrorist attack.
Well, now, that all depends on your definition of terrorism - if we go by the dictionary, then a person actually is far more likely to be harmed by a terrorist than struck by lightning. The catch is, said terrorist will likely be wearing a government-issued uniform, and be imbued with authority by whatever fascist regime is in charge at the time.
Yet the sheep continue to baa for more and rush to hand over ever more of their freedom, give the terrorists in government ever more power to enslave them, and fork over ever more of the people's wealth to pay for the chains.
Strat
Yup, it's truly sickening. Also a good part of the reason I always want to punch anyone who pops off with "you get the government you deserve." No, motherfucker, I get stuck the government you deserve, 'cuz you (collectively speaking) are a bunch of self-centered pussies, too scared of your own shadow to stand up for yourself and your neighbors.
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Just sneeze instead. It's not a smile. Within the letter of the law.
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I think I'm just going to stick out my tongue at the camera.
Smiling foold facial recognition? (Score:5, Funny)
So... To flip this... does that mean if I smile when doing something naughty, I won't be recognized by the serious computers?
Re:Smiling foold facial recognition? (Score:5, Funny)
Cue the Joker references.
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"Call me...Anonymous Coward!"
Re:Next step (Score:4, Interesting)
Or not smiling enough. Parkinson’s Sufferer Arrested for ‘Not Smiling’ at Olympic Men’s Cycling Race [infowars.com].
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(but don't say that out loud, you'll be modded down and attacked by the Brits).
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Don't know why, but I'm always so serious.
That's ok (Score:2)
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Despite my best effors, I have not been able to accomplish this ... yet.
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Like this? [wikipedia.org] That seems like it would be easy enough to do.
Actually, technically, I believe we're all currently doing that.
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No, no, you've got it wrong - it's not a matter of getting the photo taken out of focus, you have to be out of focus when the photo is taken - it can be a bit of a challenge, but no camera can take a focused photo of a person who's out of focus to begin with.
Ban lips??!? (Score:2)
Noone at the MVA smiles (Score:3)
Want to steal? Just smile! (Score:2)
Cue the grinning criminal outbreak!
Obviously the facial recognition software won't recognize you committing your crime if you do it with a smile.
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It also makes an interesting imprint on the side of the car you just t-boned.
Virginia has the same problem. (Score:2)
Oh well, their loss. Everyone in VA looks like a serial killer on their black-and-white photos.
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Well, most everyone there is.
How to troll the DMV, from G4TV (Score:5, Funny)
Picture link [g4tv.com]. Simple effective fun!
The result: The finished license. [g4tv.com]
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Great. Now anybody with the simplest image-processing software can see exactly how you'll look with and without a beard, and with and without hair -- just mirror the appropriate part of the image.
Now, if you're really paranoid, there ought to be all sorts of ways to do the equivalent of dazzle camouflage [wikipedia.org] in your DMV photo. Asymmetric stripes in your beard or hair, a bit of Darth Maul work with a sharpie...
Paradox (Score:2)
Passports (Score:3)
Passports make sense because by the time you're done being manhandled by the TSA or CATSA, you're likely to look very grumpy anyway.
But I'm usually not in a terrible mood when I'm driving.
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But no one's looking at your license while you're driving. It's when you're grumpy for having been pulled over that they ask to see your license.
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But I'm usually not in a terrible mood when I'm driving.
No, but when you have been stopped and being asked for ID you may not be so thrilled.
Image Hacking (Score:2)
I usually try to obscure my face with my middle finger whenever I see a traffic camera
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Too bad they're taking a picture of your license plate and don't care what your face looks like.
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Actually, they do. They have to be able to prove it was you driving if it goes to court.
YMMV. Per Iowa law, it's up to you to show you either rented out the vehicle or produce the police report you filed when it got stolen. State legislature considered banning traffic cameras in general, but the big cities that use them rely on the revenue and lobbied against it. On the plus side -- if there is a real 'plus' -- it's not a criminal or traffic offense.
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Too bad they're taking a picture of your license plate and don't care what your face looks like.
So that's why they made me take the smiley-face stickers off my license plate!
beard (Score:3)
Glasses free? (Score:4, Informative)
Now that passports are by decree grim and glasses-free
Yeah...no. That's simply untrue. I went into the post office to get my passport photo taken last month and they didn't have me remove my glasses, nor did the Department of State seem to have any issues with my wearing them in my photo, since I just received my new passport last week.
I think I read that there are some rules against a few particular types of glasses that obscure too much of the face (e.g. chunky frames), but they had no issues with my standard looking thin frames.
Validation (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a great story. And yes, it's on topic for the OP. Take time to watch it all the way through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbk980jV7Ao
Mod AC parent up (Score:2)
I was going to post this but AC parent beat me to it.
Turn Your Head and Use Cotton Balls (Score:3)
NJ isn't the only DMV doing stuff like this to make facial recognition easier. If they won't let you smile, try to turn your head so you are looking at the camera at an angle - part of the algorithm uses the distance between your eyes so turning your head, even slightly, in a simple 2D photo is going to change that. Width of nose and shape of cheekbones are also part of the equation so stuff cotton balls up your nose and in your cheeks and then just pretend you have a cold. Mascara helps too because it trys to figure out the depth of your eye sockets from the 2D photo too.
Beyond all that a big question that none of these DMVs have had to answer is what the hell does the DMV need facial recognition for? It is a license to drive, if you get pulled over and you don't have a license on you (which is not illegal, you are only required to be licensed, not actually carry it with you when you drive that's just for convenience) they can just type your name in the computer in their car and bring up your DMV record and visually confirm your identity, no computerized facial recognition needed.
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Beyond all that a big question that none of these DMVs have had to answer is what the hell does the DMV need facial recognition for?
As I said in a higher thread, it's primarily to make sure that you don't get cards issued in multiple names. That is apparently attempted on a fairly regular basis, to the point that essentially every state has put in these systems to stop fraud. And they do actually catch people.
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That is a plausible explanation, but I would like to see an evaluation of the trade-offs. How many fakers do they catch that would not have been caught otherwise, for example with a closer examination of the required paperwork. And, is that worth the extra cost, both monetary for the system and the cost to law-abiding citizens of misuse.
When smiling becomes a crime... (Score:2)
...Only criminals will smile!
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This whole thing is a plot hatched by the Joker.
To the batmobile! (Thankfully, Batman still has his licence because Batman never smiles.)
Then how would it work when they need it? (Score:2)
If this facial recognition software cannot deal with smiles, how is it going to work on other random photos?
Seems like it would be of pretty limited usefulness.
Old news (Score:2)
All this stuff messes with facial recognition. They also ban hats, glasses, etc. Facial hair, no, but you cant have your hair over your face...
We have been doing this for some time now. Even caught a few people with multiple ID's in the system so it does work.
Try adopting (Score:5, Interesting)
On the bright side, I went to buy a handgun recently and the store owner called in my background check to the FBI. He gave them my SS# and then said "Oh... really? Already?" and hung up. He said that what usually happens is they research it and call him back. He's never had them just approve it over the phone in a matter of seconds like that. So I guess when the government has already logged every cell in your body already there are at least some benefits.
Smile Away... (Score:2)
what where they thinking? (Score:2)
1. Remember to smile when breaking the law... OR
2. Create startup company which intends to develop software for facial recognition of smiling people...
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!
Look nice for the picture (Score:2)
Since they won't let you smile, you'll need to find another way to look nice in your photo. Some dazzling make-up [boingboing.net] perhaps?
Smilex! (Score:3)
Smilex! it's good for you!
also, anyone smiling is now a terrorist suspect.
though, in all fairness, crying probably foils the sw too. as long as your nose, cheeks and lips move it's fucked.
Re:Smile! (Score:5, Informative)
The facial recognition software isn't really to compare with your photos in public, it's primarily so that can check within the system whether you're getting licenses issued for yourself under different names.
Evidence:
http://www.publicopiniononline.com/latestnews/ci_21247064/penndot-computer-catches-fake-id-attempt [publicopiniononline.com]
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/facial-recognition-software-used-by-dot/article_dd7d0f7e-dcde-11e1-a6a0-001a4bcf887a.html [bismarcktribune.com]
Re:Smile! (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Smile! (Score:4, Insightful)
When you think of it, with things like the Boston tea party and other disruption, I'm sure all the founding father's would be branded terrorists today.
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Maybe you'll like being chipped better. Best to go ahead and come to terms with the future.
GLEAN THE CUBE! HACK THE GIBSON, MAN! (Score:2)
[1] also works to ward off the evil eye!
Re:Smile! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well, who says they can use my driver's license photo to do facial recognition on? I didn't sign up for that.
Since when do slaves get to say what they will or will not do?
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Sounds like glasses free too.
What good is this SW if it only works under extremely specific circumstances?
it'd be like if they replaced background checks with a questionnaire asking "Are you a criminal?".
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It was explained to me that while they don't expect anyone to answer 'yes' on the form, it becomes another charge that can levy against you 'lying on your immigration paperwork'.
Re:I smiled for my NJ license (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I smiled for my NJ license (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah but when I tried they deported me to Mexico for not having ID... I tried to tell them I was Puerto Rican and born in the US but the Sherif was a real dick about it.
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You can submit your own photo if you follow certain guidelines: i.e. blank background, well lit, no hats/scarves, even no smile, etc
I wish they let you do that. They sort of let you do that with passport photos and that provides plenty of opportunity to tweak the photo in such a way as to confuse facial recognition algos but still pass muster with any human who looks at the photo. Use photoshop to change the distance between your eyes, smooth out your cheekbones, fiddle with your jawline, etc. All minor things, but the facial recog algos are fragile (hence the no smiling rule) and small changes that most humans won't even notice can
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But the bigger issue is why hasn't renewing process gone digital? why do I need to wait hours to renew my license?
Your DMV sucks, that's why. I recently moved from Pennsylvania to Rhode Island...and quickly realized that the Pennsylvania DMV system is pretty awesome. Last time I had to get my license renewed in PA I popped in after work and had my new license in my hand within half an hour. Up here to get a license it takes a month and a half by mail...spent the first three full days after I moved sitting in the damn DMV for crap that would have been done in an hour back in PA. If you're near the NJ/PA border, I sugges
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There's the future this is all headed towards. The government will determine the best possible way to ID people is with a rectal scan. You'll go to the DMV, get in a long line of people bent over at the waste along a lengthy formica counter. A professionally dressed gentleman with rubber gloves holding an object that resembles a rubber drain snake will step behind each applicant (or supplicant as the case may be), and share with them the joy that comes from a 12 inch dose of national security. Pants will na