Patent Troll Goes After Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, IBM, Others 171
zaba writes "A company named PersonalWeb Technologies has decided to sue a host of heavy players in the tech industry, including Apple, Facebook, IBM, Microsoft and Yahoo! for patents it holds related to data processing. They have a previous suit against other big names like Amazon, Google and HP. Anyone care to guess where the company is based or where the suits were filed?"
The company is also targeting GitHub, but seems to have accidentally sued Rackspace — GitHub's host — instead. Rackspace has responded, saying, "It’s apparent that the people filing the suit don’t understand the technology or the products enough to realize that Rackspace Cloud Servers and GitHub are completely different products from different companies."
Enough Already (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to think of patent trolls as no name companies that pop up just to make a quick and sleazy buck. Now I think of all of the big names like Apple and Samsung too. At this point, I say bring it on. Let all companies be destroyed in the name of "intellectual property rights" and lets start over. I'd rather we die a quick death than drag it out forever.
Re:Enough Already (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is, in fact, what has happened here as well.
Re:Enough Already (Score:4, Insightful)
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Let all companies be destroyed? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, then the only companies left would be the patent trolls.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple - love or hate them - makes products based on those patents.
So no, they are not patent trolls.
They may use borderline invalid patents in an offensive and anticompetitive way, but they are not simply trolling.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? (Score:4, Insightful)
It used to be that suing was the last ditch effort of a company that had stopped innovating. When you're coming out with new product, who cares if somebody's copying last year's version?
The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry. All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power? And if you're able to predict what's next, and you happen to be a company that's competing against them, then it's pretty easy to come up with the next version before they do, and Apple ends up caught with their pants down, as has been done with the market for 7" tablets. The end result? Apple's trying to sue everybody to prevent them from competing, because, as a company, they stopped really innovating years ago.
The same generally goes for other players in the global patent wars too, mind you... it's not that I hate Apple (though I do) that I choose them as the whipping boy, it's because they're the most obvious to make the case with. What I just said can equally be applied to Samsung, LG, or HTC in the mobile phone market, and pretty much any player in modern technology. It's been a long while since anybody came up with something that was really *new* that wasn't just a more efficient way to do what we were already doing. Even the main drivers for the smartphone market, which Apple claims to have invented (we'll pretend Palm, Sony, and Blackberry didn't already have smartphones), had been done 10 years before the iPhone it the market... downloadable apps by Palm, and mobile e-mail/calendar by Ericcson (digital PCS).
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The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry.
Yep, everyone went with touch screens instead of keypads prior to the iPhone. Everyone had a nice "big" at that time screen. Yep, everyone. I mean, let's not be revisionist, the iPhone hit the streets 5 years ago. Patents are good for 20 years. Anyone copying any tech patented in the iPhone should be sued, it's Apple's fiduciary responsibility, if nothing less. BTW, where are the retina screens for anyone else, other than Samsung, who also happens to manufacture the screens for Apple?
All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power?
Nope, nor the new CPU i
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? (Score:4, Interesting)
So... much... to... argue... with... there...
If you really want to argue who invented the smartphone market, it was Danger. Say all you want about Palm, but the Sidekick was the device that really proved the model for apps on mobile devices. I mean this in the sense of apps as opposed to applications, where you have over the air updates for the system. The market for smartphones would not be a tenth of what it is were that not the case. Had they not sold out to Microsoft, the smartphone world would be a very different place to day.
The OP does appear to understand what innovation is. Innovation !== features enhancements, however, which are often a natural product of ongoing R&D that make their way into a product. Apple using a retina display is a feature enhancement, Apple building one in the first place is innovation. As you said, this was Samsung.
In regards to the design of the iPad, Jonathan Ives did not have the original idea for it. There were prototype drawings from the 80s describing very similar devices. Just because Apple was able to make the push to actually build the thing and mass-market it does not really mean the company conceived of the device completely from scratch.
I mean, citing the iPad and iPhone as examples of innovation is all well and good, if we were talking about how innovative they were in 2007. It's 2012 now, where are the new products and ideas that are going to make the world more efficient and exciting than it was before? I know they have made bids to get involved in automobile manufacturing, televisions and other consumer electronics, and other verticals. Innovation in these areas would be magnificent to see.
Instead, there are no new products this year, and there is a lot of talk about reducing their line (there is still talk Mac Pros may be going away altogether in the next year or so). you look at Samsung, you see a company that is involved in every major area of consumer manufacturing. They have a strong defense business as well, and their semiconductor unit continues to keep creating new things all the time. Apple is a little too concerned about their stock price to try anything new anymore. I don't see them as capable of producing disruptive technology so long as the fundamentals of their business model discourage risk in their major product lines.
What we are seeing it not technology innovation, it's more like business model innovation.
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I almost brought one of those damn things hoping to cash in on a "goldmine" of app development, but the only telco here that offered them had absurd terms, and there where , I believe , some onerous requirements for devs.
I'm glad I didn't , they where fairly absurd devices retrospectively.
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BSG reference to the Eternal Return [wikipedia.org]:
"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
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The madness of Emperor Caligula went on for some time too before someone had the balls to turn him into a fucking pin cushion. Is this really any different? We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?
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We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?
Whose....the horses, or the senators?
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There is an Axis of evil companies including Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Oracle and a few others (mostly proxies) that have aligned themselves against free software and companies that distribute free software products.
These companies are trying to smear Samsung, Google et al, often by pretending they are as evil as the Axis companies. You'll see variations of "well Axis company may be evil, but so is Samsung/Motorola/Google etc".
It is a lie.
Some companies do behave more ethically than others, and most behav
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List of their patents (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.personalweb.com/Technology.html [personalweb.com]
Enjoy!
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i just had a long shitty day at school and i come home and see those patents, fuck my life, fuck the world, fuck it all. hopefully after i have some dinner and a fap i'll feel better.
Re:List of their patents (Score:5, Informative)
6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
and so on...
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5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers -UUID
6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
and so on...
Sounds like any CAS solution would fit all three you listed.
Sue EMC for their Centerra product perhaps?
'Patent trolls' cost other US bodies $29bn (Score:1)
Patent trolls are a $29 billion tax on innovation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18598559
The USPTO needs to be disbanded, pure and simple. It's never going to get its act together, its never going to restrict itself to patents for clear inventions, the NET damage they're doing is too great, time to end patents altogether.
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I personally wouldn't mind patents becoming restricted to a 6month lifetime.
That way the innovator has 6 months of head-start until the rest of the world is free to compete.
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If the invention is so insignificant that competitors can imitate it, incorporate it into their products and release the new versions in less than six months, does the company really deserve a patent?
Re:List of their patents (Score:4, Funny)
Accessing Data In A Data Processing System
Re:List of their patents (Score:4, Funny)
5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers
"Substantially unique" - I love that.
I wasn't aware there were varying degrees of "unique". Maybe there's a scale:
The best part is that this potentially allows for many moderately unique patents, each patenting varying degrees of uniqueness.
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They may have chosen those words because Completely Unique was already taken.
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5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers
"Substantially unique" - I love that.
I wasn't aware there were varying degrees of "unique". Maybe there's a scale:
The best part is that this potentially allows for many moderately unique patents, each patenting varying degrees of uniqueness.
And ... and ... the bottom end of the scale (or top, if you turn it over): Ununique!
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5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers
"Substantially unique" - I love that.
It could be the identifier is a hash - there is some chance of collision [wikipedia.org], so cannot be guaranteed to be unique.
Re:List of their patents (Score:5, Funny)
We are located in East Texas, and we are developing innovative technologies and products.
There seem to be a lot of "innovative" firms located in East Texas.
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Patent 7945539
Distributing and accessing data in a data processing system
A method of distributing a data item to a plurality of computers in a network of computers. A data item is divided into a plurality of segments. Each segment is stored on at least one computer in said network. A list of computers onto which each of said segments has been stored is maintained. When a data item is requested, its component segments are obtained from at least two computers in the network. Some of the computers may form a p
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This is a good one. [personalweb.com]
Did I just break their policy by posting this link? Oh nos.
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But the patent system is fine, right? (Score:1)
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I'm just amazed that these trolls can even do this.
It used to be that if a twerp sued that kind of firepower on any other topic he'd be pulverized from any one of the lawyer-cannons into the next parsec.
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Which is why I'll never sell any of the few things I've made which have potential market value.
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Lawyers see they can take advantage of the system so they are now representing the trolls.
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My Guesses (Score:4, Insightful)
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Looks like it is Texas. Is that common?
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A district court in Texas seems to see a lot of patent and copyright cases and the rulings often side with the complainant (read IP owner).
So in short, yes, it's common. It seems to be the court of choice.
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Neither troll nor living under a rock. Or a troll living under a rock for that matter. Just not American, so I only hear patent cases being referred to as American, rather than Texan.
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Understandable. If you are interested, there was a great story on the radio regarding patent trolls (and connections to East Texas).
This American Life: When Patents Attack [thisamericanlife.org]
The patent system has driven innovation for trolls (Score:1, Funny)
And who says the system is broken?
High School Kids? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of their technical staff looks to be about 15 or 16...
http://www.personalweb.com/About.html [personalweb.com]
Re:High School Kids? (Score:5, Funny)
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Hahaha... you look at the management, and it seems ok... then you start on staff...
Bill misses the beach, but he has a lot of fun programming – too much, actually. If he wants to work on work stuff, it’s programming. If he wants to work on school stuff, also programming. If he wants to work on a personal project, it will probably involve programming. (He will have to get up and stretch someday).
That's not too bad, yet... but then a little bit more down... I think this one takes the cake for "Who the hell puts that up as a positive for their business?!":
Darren Hampton is an eclectic fellow. Despite being risk averse, he often puts himself in a great deal of minor peril. He is PersonalWeb's Quality Assurance Coordinator, but normally lacks the qualities of a coordinated individual.
The guy bursts into laughter at the slightest provocation, which leads to a very bruised noggin as he loses control of his flailing cranial structure. The danger he poses to himself is insurmountable as he cannot find a way to escape his own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Besides laughing at things that really have no comical value, he has been known to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. He especially likes the parts where it goes “wob wob wob.” He also has a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2 and will likely never free himself of the game. The one thing he hates is stepping on Legos without shoes... and jerks.
Altogether, that's Darren, a guy who finds enjoyment in just about everything and likes laughing at stuff. Sometimes he just doesn't even know.
Other gems:
Julie Ann Apoderado has a difficult time controlling her natural-born ninja skills.
Kevin doesn’t need lots of lengthy, adjective riddled sentences and paragraphs to describe him. No, Kevin needs just one word—Awesome. ...
Kevin plays the guitar, has road rage, and enjoys many other awesome activities
Her life goal is to open up a tiki bar on the beach.
At least, it seems like it's a fun and completely unprofessional work environment... makes me a little jealous...
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Could explain their web design.
Actually, you're not far off. Their Quality Assurance Coordinator is due to complete their Comp Sci degree this year.
Their "Software Engineer" also plans to graduate this year.
Their "Research Analyst" completed her fine arts degree last year.
Their "Director of Marketing" should finish her Bachelor of Science, Journalism this year.
Odd.
Re:High School Kids? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, but what does age have to do with it? This guy, for example, is obviously a leader in his field.
Darren Hampton: Quality Assurance Coordinator
Darren Hampton is an eclectic fellow. Despite being risk averse, he often puts himself in a great deal of minor peril. He is PersonalWeb's Quality Assurance Coordinator, but normally lacks the qualities of a coordinated individual.
The guy bursts into laughter at the slightest provocation, which leads to a very bruised noggin as he loses control of his flailing cranial structure. The danger he poses to himself is insurmountable as he cannot find a way to escape his own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Besides laughing at things that really have no comical value, he has been known to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. He especially likes the parts where it goes “wob wob wob.” He also has a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2 and will likely never free himself of the game. The one thing he hates is stepping on Legos without shoes... and jerks.
If that's not a glowing review of talent and competence, I don't know what is.
Oh, and Clarissa Andrews likes dying her hair!
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I would like to add: Clarissa, if you're reading this I'd do you. Definitely. I don't care about the colour of your hair. You're a hot diggety dog! *KISS*
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Change my username? Like hell! I change my username less than I change my clothes. And the girls, they like it!
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Clarissa here... sorry Psychotria, I'm sure you are a decent catch, like all slashdot trolls, but I'm already involved in an illicit and steamy relationship with Denise and Sheena. So far all we do is make out, take baths together and model lingerie for each other, but I have a strong feeling something deeper may develop.
Thanks for the reply, Clarissa. This is indeed wonderful news! Of course I will participate in a 4-way affair between you, Denise, Sheena, and myself! Never in my wildest dreams did I dare contemplate such an exotic relationship. I, too, think that something deeper may develop between the 4 of us.
The only thing I ask is that you girls treat me gently. This is my first adventure out of the basement and although I am filled with ecstasy by your offer I do have to admit that I am nervous as well.
I have written
Wow (Score:2)
Mama mia... I wish I knew how to play Texas 42, whatever that is!!
Also, the CTO appears to be Sheldon's brother.
Their first patent... (Score:5, Informative)
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How can I tell that someone hasn't read the claims?
Their patent is about using those identifier to know from a pool of servers which have the data. It's closer, but still not quite, like database sharding.
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http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,978,791.PN.&OS=PN/5,978,791&RS=PN/5,978,791 [uspto.gov]
They better go and sue Oracle. This describes the function of java.util.Hashtable.... hangon, that's been around since 1996 and the patent was filled in 1997.
Funny how the patent review officer never seems to catch these dag'gon things.
Why? (Score:2)
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Because under the current system, you can sue anyone who is "doing business" in a location. As long as you accept online sales, you are doing business anywhere. Add to that the attractiveness of bringing in lots of court fees, and some politicians in Texas got the idea to appoint judges that would be extremely patent friendly. They then brag about the high rate of settlements/favorable judgements and the speed in which the court will hear your case
Bottom line: marketing and politics created a forum for pate
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WAIT! Don't do that! The collateral damage may include Lousiana and parts of Arkansas!
Oh. Hmm. Never mind. Carry on, and good shootin'.
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Nooooo. Arkansas I don't care either way but damn Louisiana is where I go to get the best food in the world.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
They sued IBM, did they? (Score:2)
I think the Nazgul are going to have a light snack.
East Texas (Score:5, Interesting)
This article [thejuryexpert.com] does a pretty good job of looking at the situation in East Texas with regards to patent trials. It is an interesting read. It will be eye opening to some and a confirmation to others.
Texas Sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that if you are sued for patent infringement - regardless of the merits of the case - you are up for $2M in lawyers fees and court costs to defend it. Recently a judge speaking out against trolls said $3M - $5M. If you're a small company or worse - a lone developer - that will send you bankrupt. The suit will most likely be filed in a troll-friendly court district such as the East District of Texas as this case was. The judges in E.D. Texas there are notoriously pro-troll and won't dismiss even the most stupid of cases. http://www.technologyreview.com/news/405259/a-haven-for-patent-pirates/ [technologyreview.com]
Trolling causes a lot of damage for innovators elsewhere in the US, but it is huge source of revenue for E.D. Texas. Congressmen from these other districts need to gang up against the Texas trolls and Congressmen: http://www.house.gov/representatives/#state_tn [house.gov]
Re:notoriously pro-troll (Score:3)
Dramatization of processing wins for Intellectual Property holders in East Texas. (I know, this is satire, ignore the different country.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46qYCIt954 [youtube.com]
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Couldn't you negotiate a percentage of the revenue or profits? They should realize that dead companies supply zero royalties.
Biological parasites don't do well when they outright kill the host. A relatively healthy host is the best food supply and is the best strategy for parasites, reproductive-wise. (Mutant parasites can pop up that outright kill hosts, but they tend to not last as long.)
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Oh, patent... (Score:1)
I thought it said patient troll...
Little tip guys, don't drink and slashdot.
Re: patient troll (Score:3)
Oh, they are patient too. 12 years is a long time to wait on a partent portfolio before suing, even for something as juicy as trolling.
"The patents asserted in these lawsuits were developed by a company called Kinetech Inc. The portfolio was split up in 2000, and itâ(TM)s now co-owned by PersonalWeb and Level 3 Communications, a large internet infrastructure company."
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Drumroll please... (Score:3)
And the winner is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Bermeister [wikipedia.org]
Former VP Dick Cheney could solve this problem (Score:2)
We just need to encourage him to take these folks out on a "hunting" trip.
Actually, I would like to see blatant patent trolling to be treated as a criminal offense. It's a racket, and should be whacked using RICO laws. These folks set up a shell company and sue, sue, sue. One win is enough to keep them going. If these lose big, and the shell company goes bankrupt, they just set up another one and continue.
The problem is differentiating them from legitimate patent suits. Patent lawyers could help to g
It will all go well (Score:4, Funny)
Attorney: Judge, we would like to put our QA Coordinator on the stand as an expert witness. /me jerks.
Judge: Darren Hampton [personalweb.com], please take the stand.
Judge: Please describe your role at the company and your formal qualifications.
Darren: I am an eclectic fellow, but despite myself being risk averse I often put myself in a great deal of minor peril.
Judge: Please proceed.
Darren: Although I am am coordinator, I normally lack the qualities of a coordinated individual. I burst into laughter at the slightest provocation.
Judge: Understood.
Darren: *bursts out laughing*
Judge: *bashes Darren on the head with his gavel*
Darren: Sorry, sir. The danger I pose to myself is insurmountable and I cannot find a way to escape my own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Judge: Are you retarded?
Darren: I like to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. I especially likes the parts where it goes "wob wob wob."
Judge: Next witness please.
Darren: Wait.
Judge: Ok.
Darren: I have a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2. I also don't like stepping on Legos (sic) without shoes.
Judge: Next witness.
Court Dude: Sheena Walker, please take the stand. [personalweb.com]
Sheena: Oh, hai!
Judge: Sheena, please describe your experience and formal qualifications.
Sheena: I love research! Yay! My favourite holidy is St. Patricks Day and I luuuv green and light green. Like shamrocks, you know.
Judge: Continue.
Sheena: Like, yeah. What was I saying? Oh yeah! I love my Mini Schnauzer, Missy, to death! Yeah!
Sheena: I once took a picture of a sunset!
Judge: What has this got to do with the case.
Sheena: Hey, judgie. I love Big Brother. I once had a piano in my ear! I went to the, yeah, University of Texas! Yeah. I didn't finish but I think I want to one day. I have been debating this with myself.
Judge: You talk to yourself?
Sheena: No, Judgie, I debate with myself. Anyway, hey, in the meantime I am learning like lots.
The patents should be easy to invalidate (Score:2)
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Yup, and after 3 years, 47 hearings, and 300 briefs they'll have the opportunity to try to invalidate them.
The upside of being sued by a patent troll is that you could win and only lose $3M. The downside is that you could lose and lose every cent you have.
I'm involved in this - providing prior art (Score:5, Informative)
A lawyer with a law firm defending one of these companies contacted me and visited me last week to review prior art which I have, with the hope that I can assist them and their client in invalidating one or more of these patents. Tomorrow I will be delivering running a copy of my software to the firm to allow them to closely examine it. Most of the companies which have been threatened with patent infringement lawsuits have caved in and agreed to pay the patent holders (Priceline founder Jay Walker and others) rather than attempt to defend themselves in court, however. We'll see how it plays out.
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I don't believe you. I think this whole story is a troll about a troll :(
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I don't care what you think, whoever you may be.
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All I can say is, good on you for fighting these trolls and the horrible system that has allowed them to flourish.
Sincerely, thank you.
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If you clicked on my username (which is also my trademark) then you at least have an inkling of what I've been at for the past 40 years. Thank you for your appreciation.
Biggest troll ever? (Score:2)
I've made jokes in this thread about the company profile [personalweb.com] but I am now wondering if it's a troll in more way than one. Is this a real company that is patent trolling? Or, is it a troll about patent trolling? I am starting to get confused. Surely a real patent troll would create a more professional company profile (??) Surely a company going to court, even in Texas (wherever that is), would have a more "professional" website. Is it April 1st?
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It's a real company. I googled the one who likes Texas 42. She has been posting on SEO forums for a year. She is clearly an amateur. But not that kind. :(
Lawyers Like Lawyers to make more money (Score:1)
Voulez vous? (Score:1)
and it's a time to take these asswipes out back and put them out of their misery.
Or at the very least, take Clarissa, Denice, Julie, Kamren, and Sheena out back, and as a lesson to future patent trolls, give them publicly televised spanking.
It's the Name of the Game (Score:2)
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against "non-practicing entities". Let's say... if you obviously don't understand that patent you hold, the patent is empty and void?
You hit the normal problem of treating a company as a person. Does "you" refer to everyone in the company, the CEO, the research department, paid subcontractors, or the office cleaner?
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Oh really? How does Git "find data in networks using identifiers based on the content of the data"? As far as I know, network operations in Git use URLs, not hashes, to find other repositories.
Read the claims.
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Seriously, if thoses are granted: America is a lost cause.
13/091,380 Accessing data in a data processing system
13/102,337 Accessing data in a content-addressable data processing system
13/109,208 Accessing data in a content-addressable data processing system
13/352,169 Data Distribution in A Data Processing System
13/351,433 Access Control in A Data Processing System Using Data Item Signatures
http://www.personalweb.com/Technology.html
They're trying to destroy file sharing in a new way!
</humor>