UK Authorities Threaten To Storm Ecuadorian Embassy To Arrest Julian Assange 1065
paulmac84 writes "According to the BBC, the UK have issued a threat to storm the Ecuadorian Embassy to arrest Julian Assange. Under the terms of the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 the UK has the right to revoke the diplomatic immunity of any embassy on UK soil. Ecuador are due to announce their decision on Assange's asylum request on Thursday morning."
Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they are really bothered about that possible rape charge against him.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget (Score:5, Interesting)
An invitation was even given by the Ecuadorian government to the Swedish prosecutors to come to their embassy and speak with Assange, and they refused to cooperate.
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Informative)
The moment he is back in the authorities' hands Obama will declare him a terrorist and then it's game over - he will be outside the purview of the courts thanks to the "special arrangements" in place since 911.
Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter if the guy has raped that Swedish girl or not, - that's not the main point, for that "rape story" has become an excuse for UK to take action on behalf of Uncle Sam/
By doing so, UK no longer honors its own sovereignty.
A sovereign nation is like a free, dignified person, an entity that takes up action to protect it/him/herself, and has the freedom to do whatever it/he/she wants to do.
United Kingdom, by threatening to storm the embassy of another nation, over a person whom we all know Uncle Sam wants, is no longer a nation which I respect - and I suspect I am not alone in not regarding UK as a dignified country no more.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:4, Insightful)
The British government are not the country, I doubt there are many people in the UK who would support this action and even fewer who are happy with the way the government sucks up to the US.
If THAT's the case, then CHANGE YOUR GOVERNMENT, for crying out loud !!
You guys in UK are still calling yourself a "democratic country", right?
You still have the right to change your government, right?
RIGHT ??
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah right. You might as well suggest Americans change their government, but average Joes are in the same position the world over: bent over at the waist clutching their ankles saying "do it again please."
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course Assange parading around South America thumbing his nose at the US would also be widely celebrated by far the majority of South Americans.
And many of us here in the USA as well.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
oh, CHILL THE FARK OUT.
they can't change their country any more than we can.
we're both fucked.
the brits are basically good people but they have totally lost control over their gov.
same with us in the US.
if you think its so easy to change, you, maybe, can show us ignorant peasants how its done??
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
> if you think its so easy to change, you, maybe, can show us ignorant peasants how its done??
Well, the French did it, ask them. But it wasn't pretty, I tell you.
Also, a piece of advice to US and Brit governments: don't try to please the people with little cakes... last time it didn't work.
Now, seriously, it's not just the USA and the Brits, other countries have problematic governments doing foolhardy follies -- e.g. Russia.
If those who can intervene do nothing, that might mean a much bloodier process down the river (see Libya and Syria, for example).
We live in a globalized world now. That means we must pay attention to the big picture, it's not just the US (or UK) way anymore; everybody is looking... even if you get Assange, that will not be seen with good eyes by other in the world (given the reasons to get him -- and don't come up with that "rape" bullshit, again). The UK is already looking like some Banana Republic if the law is "flexible" so that embassies can be made inexistent overnight.
What good is having any embassy in UK if things are that way? And if our embassy isn't worth a penny, why would we harbour a British embassy over here? To drink tea at 5? Duh!
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
We Americans did it too, long long ago, and it certainly wasn't pretty then either. But yes, the French revolution was pretty nasty too, with all the guillotining and all. Good point about Libya too; they changed their government recently, and look how the losers were treated (Gadafi was hunted down like a dog and shot).
If the Brits storm the Ecuadorian embassy, it'd be funny if Ecuador stormed the British embassy in Quito in return. And maybe a bunch of other governments will storm the British embassies in their countries too.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you could say Napoleon took over the government because he could gain control of it when it was in absolute chaos. The French then attempted to spread their version of a society where "Liberty, Equality and Freedom" were the watchwords of the day and there was no room for a Noble Class and a Peasant Class who were dominated by them.
All of the other countries in Europe (dominated by Nobility who still wielded very considerable power) immediately ganged up on the French to destroy this idea that having a Nobility rule over you was morally wrong. The French attempted to expand the territory they control and to introduce a new type of government.
In the process they introduced a detailed and arguably fair legal code (although the English code is preferable IMHO), the metric system, high speed communications (for the time of course: news of a victory in Austria could be in Paris in about 18 hours), they revolutionized the warfare of the time and forcing every other army in Europe to reorganize and revamp their units in reaction.
They attempted to spread a new way of thinking about government and society and to eliminate the class system that dominated all politics at the national level in Europe.
History has been written by the supporters of those Nobles who defeated Napoleon. For 20+ years, he was the most brilliant commander of military forces in Europe, and only seldom was he bested. The rest of the time he often made his enemies look like inept buffoons. He overstepped his reach in Russia of course, but that seems to be a common fate for those who attempt to cross the steppes. Note that the French did better than the Germans in WWII although the results were the same in the end. Napoleon is too easy to caricature and dismiss, and of course since he is French, every American out there will dismiss him out of hand almost automatically - since everything French must be dismissed these days *simply* because the French were unwilling to participate in the Iraq war (which was of course based on lies anyways).
Before anyone asks, no I am not French, don't live in France etc.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
the brits are basically good people but they have totally lost control over their gov.
same with us in the US.
if you think its so easy to change, you, maybe, can show us ignorant peasants how its done??
This seems to be a common issue permeating across most developed countries. Decent people just wanting to live in peace, raise their kids, and have some fun - and rabidly mad governments out of control brutalizing their citizens on behalf of the multinational corporations and a couple of hegemonial superpowers without any accountability. The lame excuse for "democracy" in those countries is a mere detractor from the fact that they have long become entrenched oligarchies who will destroy any real competition prior to election time.
Last time the establishment was changed in living history was ... when?
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
oh, CHILL THE FARK OUT.
they can't change their country any more than we can.
we're both fucked.
the brits are basically good people but they have totally lost control over their gov.
well, this has not gone unnoticed within the UK. The very fabric of the UK is at risk because the "Kingdom of Scotland" [wikipedia.org] (one of the united kingdoms) has a growing independence movement; in fact, it has grown so much that Scotland's devolved parliament currently has a majority pro-independence government - something that the UK government had tried to avoid ever happening. The cracks are appearing and the approach that the UK government is taking does not sit well with some cultures within the UK. The Scottish Governament very quite pissed off when it was found that the UK Government allowed redention flights to refuel at Prestwick without telling anyone.
I just wish Wikileaks had more information about the oppresive anti-independence movement that the UK, it's broadcaster and other quasi-governmental organisations are inflicting on Scotland. e.g. the BBC in Scotland shows endless documentaries about why being British is good etc that are not shown anywhere else in the union. See this A to Z [newsnetscotland.com] of the propaganda that is inflicted on the Scots...
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:4, Funny)
hahahaha, you think your measly vote is going to change anything when you have a choice between dick head 1 and dick head 2.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
But you were cool with them
A little reminder: neither you nor I were alive when that happened. This kind of dipshit thinking is what keeps places like the middle east at war for 5000 years.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:4, Insightful)
Hold on for a second. You're saying the AC was not alive in 1945? How the hell do you know that.
The british empire began to fall apart after WWII... there are hundreds of millions of people still alive who remember British rule around the world. There are millions right here in the US.
It may not be relevant to this discussion.. but you don't get to pretend history from 65 years ago is ancient history.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Informative)
The British empire was still existant then, but it wasn't "taking about half the countries on the damn planet as colonies"; it's expansion had pretty much halted by 1914.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Funny)
I'd also have to wonder how many >67 yr olds are commenting on slashdot.
You insensitive clod. Haven't you seen how many references to Unix there are here!
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:4, Insightful)
Damn, and you were doing so well there for a minute....
But then you criticised the NHS (National Health Service, for non-Brits).
Now most other things about the UK can be considered shitty (as with the US), but the one thing that *DOES* work in the UK is the NHS.
Don't fuck with it. No one wants a US-style (aka built by and for private insurance companies) healthcare "system" (in quotes because it really doesn't work over here) in the UK.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Damn, and you were doing so well there for a minute....But then you criticised the NHS (National Health Service, for non-Brits).
Gotta agree on that one. The USA is the laughing stock of the west in regards to healthcare. The fact that they can brainwash their citizens into aggressively defending their morally bankrupt health care system that has many people crushed with anxiety over the mere cost of visiting a doctor and leaves the USA with some of the lowest life expectancy in the western world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy [wikipedia.org]
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Funny)
>Perhaps it does, but whenever I read something about the NHS, its a sad story in the Daily Mail about some doctor making a silly mistake that takes a way a father or mother from their children, or vice versa..
The DAILY MAIL. You get your news from the Daily Mail. OK, then.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
I just read your message again...
"I just lost all my savings paying my wife's health costs"
Wow. Just, wow. The fact you consider losing all your savings preferable to a National Health Service is, well..., just really *sad*.
I know it's true, because I live here. But I'm always astounded when I'm reminded how Americans have absolutely no concept of what a civilized society really looks like.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow. Just, wow. The fact you consider losing all your savings preferable to a National Health Service is, well..., just really *sad*.
Ok, small confession here: it wasn't all that much as I spend most of my hard-earned cash the past 10 months on my newborn daughter.
However, the savings that I still had, went to healthcare. Not because we were not insured, but because this particular benefit stopped at $2000.
I know it's true, because I live here. But I'm always astounded when I'm reminded how Americans have absolutely no concept of what a civilized society really looks like.
Well, first of all I'm not American. I'm from The Netherlands and moved to the U.S. two years ago. Best decision ever. Yes, I pay more for healthcare. But then again, I pay less taxes. And the quality of healthcare here is just.... Astonishing. My wife gave birth to our daughter last year, and she compared the care she received with the care her sister received in The Netherlands (admitted, probably slightly different from the U.K., but still a similar socialistic approach where healthcare is almost for free). I won't bore you with the details (we're getting way off-topic anyway), but once again I was strengthened in my belief that moving here was a good idea.
The concept of what a civilized society really looks like varies per person. I find it very civilized that I am fairly free to say what I think in this country (being the U.S. now), contrary to the U.K. (or The Netherlands, for that matter). I find it very civilized that I am welcomed by my neighbors and colleagues, and my slightly different background is respected, contrary to my previous residence. I can go on and on, but that would get very very off-topic.
To stay on-topic, one of the very few things I find highly uncivilized, is that one country is threatening to invade another country's embassy over something as small as Julian Assange. (again, not saying that I approve of the way the U.S. is handling this, but the U.K. are behaving like morons, too).
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the fact that you would rather lose a loved one instead of you life savings is really sad.
The fact that, in the USA, you can be put in the position where you must choose one or the other is a fail of epic proportions.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
You can pretty much guarantee that if the Daily Mail says it, it is a lie.
I honestly don't understand the arguments in the USA regarding universal healthcare. This is something I would regard as a basic right. The people against it are effectively saying "poor people? Fuck 'em"
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, I can believe as an NHS nurse she had lots of horror stories about how broken the system is. I can tell you lots of horror stories about how broken every company I've ever worked for is :-).
But (and I'm sorry to hear she passed away so you can't ask here) I very much doubt that she would have preferred to impose the US-style system on her patients, had she had experience of both systems.
I live in the US, and I'd pay double my taxes just to get a working NHS over here. Having experience of both systems I know what I'm talking about. It's the peace of mind.
If you've never had it, and only lived in the US system you won't really understand what I'm talking about. It's like trying to describe color (note the spelling there :-) to a blind person. But I'll try.
Imagine just NOT HAVING TO WORRY about healthcare or costs. Seriously - NOT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT IT AT ALL. Ever. That's what the NHS brings to people's lives.
People over there complain about it, but that's because they also don't understand how truely disfunctional the US system is. They (people in the UK) have no concept of being made bankrupt and homeless by healthcare costs. They just can't imagine it.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Informative)
I've run out of mod points, so mod parent up.
I'm in the Norwegian system, and we're fairly well covered. I got really really ill 3 years back, you see. Turned out, there were these infections in my brain. 7 of them. And the reason my head hurt was that they were all expanding so fast I was heading into a coma. That's what I was told later, though. The first night:
After being rushed into the ER and immidiately have 5 ER nurses and doctors (not sure how many was which) descend on me the moment I entered the ER, I was sent to a CT scan. She came back out, looked at me, and went back in to take another. Afterwards she told me: "You have had a small brain infarction", and my life ended. I thought.
After 3 days, they sent me to another, bigger, hospital. Because, as I gathered the reasoning was, they could *also* open up my brain to check out the infections, but this other hospital could put me back together afterwards, so that's where I was going.
During the next 5 weeks I am dying from one of the most common causes of my kind, runaway brain infections. As it turns out, after several doctors have taken a break from their vacation to answer important question... In fact, there were doctors all over Norway taking part in my diagnosis from the first night I was in hospital.
3 weeks in they've taken enough MR pictures, and tried enough antibiotics and anti-tuberculosis and... Well. I especially liked the one that made me vomit every time I took it after 30m-2hrs. It made all my bodily fluids completely red. I still feel a little sorry for whoever had to repeatedly clean the bathroom right next to the hospital smoking room after I'd been there... A couple of times it looked like a massacre, and when I tried to rub it off with paper it just smeared.
Suffice to say I was medicated, and to this day am I grateful for stereoids. They literally kept me alive for 5 weeks.
As I was saying, after 3 weeks they had enough MR pictures to program the robot that was to enter my brain, take a sample, and exit. I had to be awake for the brain surgery. One of the reasons is that if my kind gets full anaesthetic there's a 40% chance we never rise again.
They started by bolting a crown to my head. Just a circle, and bolts, all of which were drawn hard enough to stand firm in my cranium.
Then, they started drilling. And I shall remember this feeling until the day I die. The universe was vibrating, and there was a sound that was more than a sound. And that sound was not entirely unlike a dental drill multiplied by... Something nicely logarithmic. I can't really even estimate it.
Then they asked me questions now and again. I was doped to the gills, and mostly was very bored and wanted it to be over... When it was over, they added morphine. Vast amounts of morphine. Unlike all the other patients in the communal waking room, I wasn't sleeping. I was just in gradually^H^H rapidly rising pain.
Later that night, when I was back in my very comfortable single room, I went to the bathroom, and fell partially asleep... This is my morphine-fueled dream:
The interplanetary patent office, due to a severe temporal/causal blunder, has released the iPhone 12 instead of the iPhone 2 (which actually was releasing that day or one of the immidiately surrounding ones). I was holding an iPhone 12. This new model especially had this very interesting function I wanted to test. If you flipped your phone over to the left, it replicated, instantaneously creating a perfect copy of itself that you could lend to a friend. This copy would last for 12 hours. Unfortunately, the phone I'd gotten was bugged, and when I flipped it over to the left it just Made My Head Hurt Really Bad.
All in all, the state spent... I don't know:
Ambulance, 7 km. Air ambulance, 1hr30m. 10 weeks, mostly in solitary room in the most expensive department of the hospital. Infections. The room I slept in part of the time there probably cost many times what my house did.
Unknown number of doctors * unknown number of hours, bu
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm British and I'm accidently sickened by this news, and I actually think our country deserves international condemnation over this but your rant is just stupid and wrong.
"Before exiting Heathrow Airport, you will be recorded on more CCTV camera's than while driving from San Francisco to New York."
That doesn't even make any sense, the distance between a plane and the exit to Heathrow isn't large enough for this to be true, unless you believe for some reason they have multiple CCTV cameras covering exactly the same spots taking the exact same redundant images for absolutely no reason at all. Hint: they don't. The UK has a CCTV problem, but your example is 100% bullshit, if you'd really actually been to Heathrow you'd know this.
"The UK prohibits MP's of other European countries access because of their political views."
Sure, the UK has refused entry to Geert Wilders, the Dutch far right extremist politicians which is presumably who you're referring to, but that's because the UK was dealing with a resurgent BNP at the time and we frankly didn't want to strengthen the far right platform. You realise however that countries like the US ban even simple holiday makers for jokes they've made on Twitter which the US authorities finds offensive? many European countries also ban extremists and so forth too. Hell, even Canada threatened to refuse me entry once for no other reason than the customs officer was a jackass and "wasn't convinced" I was telling the truth about my life after he'd randomly interrogated me for 3 hours and I've not even got so much as a speeding fine on my record, work a respectable job, and have a decent education. Our country is still one of the more accomodating in this respect, whilst some high profile preaches have been dealt with here and there the UK still for example allows people in supporting groups like "Muslims against crusades" to join in protests with British muslims - something few other countries would tolerate. I don't think the UK really needs to improve much in this area, it's still one of the most tolerant even now, there are much more pressing problems. We do need to make sure we don't allow the downwards trajectory towards less tolerance to continue though and absolutely we should still work to reverse it.
"The health system exceeds Mao's finest expectations when it comes to communist equality for all, especially the lack of quality."
This is just stupid and wrong. The NHS works, it's one of the best systems in the world and used as a model for many other countries who want a progressive health system. If you think the NHS is somehow a communist issue, then presumably you think that the US having public police and fire services makes the US police and fire services communist too. In most civilised nations, healthcare is treated as an essential basic service just like policing, fire, and the military are. Sucks for you if you don't come from such a civilised society where people can focus on being productive, rather than having to worry as to whether they'll be made bankrupt for no other reason than they got ill.
"The school systems is terribly broken."
I somewhat agree with this, it is pretty shit, but relative to the rest of the world it's still in the top 15 or so, so whilst it could do with a lot of improvement, it could also be a fuckton worse.
"The police have a license to kill (remember the poor Brazilian guy in London?)."
Well yeah, the police kinda do have a license to kill. Have you ever heard of an armed police unit anywhere in the world that is told "Well, here are your guns, but don't actually shoot anyone". A few examples of malpractice like Menezes do not equal an endemic issue with police murdering people. The British police record on this sort of thing is orders of magnitude better than in most of the world partly due to the fact a small handful of units have firearms so the scope for it happening accidently, or intentionally, is low. Compare this to say, America, where the police shoot multiple people every
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog (Score:5, Interesting)
You're thinking of a Sweden that no longer exists (if it ever did). The last decade has seen Sweden handing over people to CIA rendition flights straight to torture, implementing laws they've been told to by the US, etc. The claim has been that there have been trade threats, but frankly I believe it's more about the ambitions of the politicians and civil servants as any trade action would drag the EU into it.
The current generation of Swedish politicians are corrupt cowards and they'll bend over to get a treat.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Informative)
Are you going for a new record in "how dense can I pack errors about the assange case"?
1) The checkbox on the arrest warrant for "rape" was marked, and the UK courts found that the charges would be rape even under UK law (most notably, having sex with a person who's asleep, even ignoring that he did so without a condom which had been made clear was a precondition of sex with her - it's *always* illegal)
2) The charges are with penalties of up to four years in prison [nytimes.com].
3) He cannot be charged in absentia under Swedish law. There is a series of steps which must be taken in order to lead to formal charges, and not all of them have been taken yet. Hence the warrant to continue the process. The European Arrest Warrant makes it clear that he is to be returned with intent to charge. Which also means it makes no sense to send over Swedish interrogators to the UK - not like anyone should have to give famous people special treatment anyway just because they say to.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Informative)
But let's suppose that something unconsentual has taken place here. If Assange is extradited to Sweden, charged and convicted for rape or whatever, and if it ends there, then I will publicly come out here and eat my words. But if he is extradited, fined or sentenced to do a little time, and then released to the custody of the US, by secret rendition or simple and legal extradition, then all you'll get is a fat "told you so"
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
And I let my rapist walk me back to my f***ing car and waited for him while he peed on the street. Have you never heard of "shock" before? Do you have any clue how hard it is to get yourslf to accept the fact that you've been raped? As soon as he left she immediately cleaned up and washed everything in her apartment, especially the semen spot on her bed, after washing herself, and then called her friends, distraught (matching their testimony).
Like most people, I couldn't get myself to file charges. I just wanted to forget about it. I couldn't imagine going through a trial, having to face him more, and all of the smears that I know would have been directed against me for being some "slut trying to ruin an innocent man's life". And he was a nobody, not someone with a legion of millions of global fans. I mean, my god, I've seen websites about these women that are basically stalker sites.
I did nothing. But if I had found out shortly after that he had done the *same sort of thing thing* to another girl right around the same time as what he did to me? I still don't know if I would have filed charges, but it definitely would have changed the picture.
During sleep it's *always* non-consentual. A sleeping person *cannot consent*, period.
You'll need to do more than eat your words. What is the proper way to apologize for smearing rape victims?
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Informative)
somehow UK didn't do shit in when someone liberally sprayed bullets with submachine gun from the 1st floor of Libyan embassy at anti-libyan protesters in 1984.
1 killed policewoman, 10 wounded
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvonne_Fletcher [wikipedia.org]
murder vs no-rape rape - that does not compute.
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Informative)
In closing an embassy, you're doing the diplomatic version of saying, "Hey, we don't like the way you're acting, get off my lawn".
Storming an embassy involves sending and armed attack force into another countries sovereign territory.
If you didn't know, closing an embassy is something that happens now and then, but storming an embassy is tantamount to a military invasion and can start a war. Sure, there's no way Ecuador is going to get into a war with the U.K., but they can still cause a buttload of trouble in the U.N. if the U.K. does it.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, fuck you.
If Dick Cheney was in London, you think the government of the UK would storm the US embassy to arrest him? And yes, there are formal charges of war crimes pending against Cheney. So, a bullshit rape charge vs war crimes... Are the guys from Barclays that manipulated LIBOR causing theft that could go into the trillions of dollars in custody? But, oh, no, they need to cause an act of war to get Julian Assange who is accused of "pressing his penis against a sleeping woman whom he happened to be sleeping with. I guess you can expect this from a country that let a bunch of Nazis take their fortune to South America with little more than a tally-ho, but for Assange, dammit, "the law is the law". And you're going on about "Britain is fully with their rights.." What is wrong with you?
There are some powerful swells that are pissed at Assange for making them look foolish. That's the alpha and the omega of this thing.
Assange may be a total jerk and someone who would have consensual sex with a woman without a condom when the woman said she wanted him to wear a condom, or the charges against him could be completely bogus. But these supposed charges do not rise to the level requiring the attack of a foreign embassy.
"Storm the Ecuadorian embassy" my ass. All because Assange provided confirmation to the people of Britain that people in their government are asshats, as they have long believed.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
The Ecuadorian Embassy are the ones who OFFERED asylum because they appreciated what was in the Wikileaks cables. Assange didn't just show up on their doorstep demanding a favor. Why are you shilling so hard for the CIA? 90% of the posts in your user profile are anti-Assange attacks.
Wikileaks is the only reason Bin Laden was killed. They leaked documents that revealed the CIA knew Bin Laden's courier was based in Abottabad. The USA then had no chance but to get him before Pakistani intelligence moved him again. Are you mad Bin Laden was caught for some reason? Do you have some financial interests in a continued American troop presence in South Asia? Maybe you should come clean.
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, except the host state can't just enter except in an emergency, like a fire, earthquake, or rampage. Entering under color of the host's legal process is exactly the type of thing banned by treaty and international law.
They can close the embassy, but they can't just do it willy-nilly. They have to give notice, reasonable time to allow the staff to wind up, and safe exit. If Assange is successfully appointed a diplomat, then they have to let him go. If they disagree with the appointment, they can declare their intention to treat him as non-staff, but must first give him reasonable time to leave.
By treaty a country could appoint as a staff member someone with third-party nationality. Although that can be subject to change ahead of time, and it's unclear what the rule is in the UK wrt Ecuador.
See the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations:
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Impressive. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone threaten to storm an embassy. I haven't even seen the Chinese do this. Note to everyone: this is what happens if you threaten to thoroughly upend the balance of power, expose secrets everywhere, and generally fuck with people in power. If you do this, you better make sure you have an equally strong power backing you. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life in jail, regardless of whether you actually broke any laws.
On the upside, props to Assange. I don't think he saw this coming, but I do think that what he did was a service to the world.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The point is they never have to do it. They only have to threaten to do it and Ecuador has no other choice but to cave in. They cannot afford to go to war with UK or even spoil relations with the UK through a diplomatic spat. Even though they know that the UK wouldnt never do it, the slight chance of that happening would be too much for them.
A very clever move. I am pretty sure Ecuador will cave.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Say Ecuador calls their bluff. Can the UK storm in and show the world what a real US lapdog looks like? The fact that they would even threaten this shit shows just how FUCKED the world is right now.
He's ONE MAN. He's not breaking into your secure places and leaking your dirty fucking secrets. No, IT'S YOUR OWN PEOPLE who see the corruption and go to him to help them right the wrongs they see. Get rid of Assagnge. "Just do it"(tm). It won't change the fact YOUR OWN PEOPLE have moral problems with the wrongs going down. The right thing to do is STOP DOING EVIL. If you don't think that "making an example" of Assange will just embolden EVERYONE who is privy to questionable government bullshit to find another spokesperson and get the word out, then you really have no idea how Brits and Americans think.
You think "The Streisand Effect" is bad? Just wait till we have an excuse to coin the term "The Assange Effect".
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Interesting)
If i were Ecuador i would sneak him out a week or so before they announce that he is going to be leaving. that way when the storm the embassy looking for him they will come of as fools and in the process and causing a international incident of epic proportion gaining huge amounts of distrust of england internationally.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Informative)
Ecuador has no other choice but to cave in. They cannot afford to go to war with UK
Are you sure you don't have that backwards? If the UK initiates an act of war against another foreign power, especially over something as controversial as this, they'll have a lot of foreign powers extremely pissed at them. They will be seen as the aggressor, and Ecuador as the underdog. This is going to cause massive problems both with foreign relations, and within their own country ("we went to war over what now!?").
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I get the impression that the Vienna Convention is one of those things that diplomat types take fairly seriously.
I'd certainly be hiring some extra rentacops if I were a british diplomat posted overseas right about now...
No shit (Score:5, Interesting)
None of the Latin America countries enjoy being reminded of their past colonial status, or the continuing attitude of the US and European imperialists, whether former or not. I imagine if Britain really were so stupid as to storm the Ecuadoran embassy, every single one of their Latin American embassies would be stormed by the people, with the police stepping aside.
There aren't many people anywhere in the world that see this as anything but the UK sucking up to the US. No civilized country has ever stormed an embassy that I can think of, other than the Iranian revolutionaries storming the US embassy, and that was in response to 25 years of living under the Shah who had been forced on them by the US. Does Britain really want to be the first modern civilized country to do something so outrageous, for a somewhat dubious rape charge, as the US's lapdog? I wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservative government fall to a vote of no confidence. I can't imagine too many UK citizens would think this a proper demonstration of national pride.
Re:Slow down there! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not, there could be no question who the aggressor is. Ecuador produces oil and if Syria flakes, the U.K. will really need a new supplier. They don't depend on the U.K. for much of anything and while smaller, their economy is stronger than the U.K.
They could pare the staff down to Assange and a couple military police (to have token Ecuadorians there) and just let the invasion happen.
Does anyone out there still believe all of this is related to what amounts to a charge of turning out to be a douche (which has yet to even be formally charged)?
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure it's that clever. The UK probably has more at stake than Ecuador does, ie all the UK embassies and diplomats around the world that depend on the conventions surrounding diplomatic status. If the UK is seen to weaken that convention it will be politically harder for them to demand others respect it making UK embassies more vulnerable.
I thought this would be "worked out" and Assange will be coughed up. Probably because money would change hands behind the scenes (either to individuals or "aid" to Ecuador).
Now I am not so sure, it may be politically impossible (internally) for the Ecuador politicians to back down.
Many critics of Assange claim Wikileaks damaged diplomacy by exposing it's inner workings. Even if that is true it is nothing compared to the damage that would be done by revoking the status of an embassy over an asylum seeker.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Central america and the northern portion of south america have been on a bit of an independent streak lately. They're much further in bed with the Chinese and Japanese than they are with the UK, who never had any formal colonies there. Most of central america and a good portion of south america have started decriminalizing drugs in the leadup to the election 2012, risking US foreign aid in the process in trade for the safety of their citizens. Unlike Africa and Eastern Europe, south america is mostly independent of the rest of the world - they fed europe during both world wars - and their standard of living, in the big cities at least, is on par with most of the rest of the world. Cutting ties with the UK is much lower on their list of "risky behavior" compared to a superpower like China who is dumping billions of dollars in to their economies each year with no strings attached.
TL;DR the natives are educated and not dependent on western europe anymore, and have little need for their political shenanigans.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
When will countries like the USA and UK realize that they really don't need any more enemies than they already have.
Invading a sovereign nation's embassy with armed force is effectively a declaration of war.
Now Ecuador isn't going to send an armada of naval vessels or a wave of bombers to strike back at the UK -- but you can bet that a good number of terrorists will use this as justification for making more strikes against both the UK and the USA.
Is this what the UK and USA really want?
Well I'm sorry to say but it probably is.
If the UK seize Assange from the Ecuadorian Embassy, he's extradited to Sweden and from there back to the USA, I have absolutely *no* doubt at all that there will be a new wave of terror attacks against both nations -- as retribution.
This will give the UK and USA governments just what they want -- an ability to say "see, Assange was evil and probably working with these terrorists to destabilize the West -- the proof is here in these new attacks".
Of course, like typical politicians, they won't care that hundreds or possibly thousands of innocent souls may lose their lives to attacks that could make 9/11 look like a childrens' tea-party.
I'm starting to think that this world is going to hell in a handbasket. I just hope that the great-unwashed public wise-up to the way they're being used and abused by politicians right across the globe.
Rob the public blind to the tune of billions (like the bankers have) and you get away with it -- in fact, governments will even pay your debts for you.
Steal a can of beans from a supermarket because you are hungry can't afford a meal and they'll lock you up.
This crap has to end soon -- doesn't it?
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a calculated trade-off: how many countries support getting Assange behind bars, versus how many object to these types of tactics? What are the odds that Ecuador calls their bluff, versus how important is it to have Assange behind bars? How many countries will actually pull their embassies if the UK does storm the Ecuadorian embassy?
All I can say is: this shows just how much trouble he is for the powers that be. Bin Laden is the only other person to qualify for this type of treatment, and he had the good wits to disappear in the mountains of Afghanistan. Actually, I say that in the later years of the Bush administration, bin Laden was seen as less trouble than Assange.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
this shows just how much trouble he is for the powers that be.
I don't understand this part - it isn't like Wikileaks will immediately power down just because Assange is in jail.
Is this simply about making an example out of him?
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure Assange is an asshole. Maybe he really did rape those women. But this is not the kind of charge you use as an excuse to become the first modern country to storm an embassy. Even the worst enemies in WW II didn't do that. Iran did, but their provocation was far worse than extradition for a dubious rape charge, and the world condemned them for it.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Funny)
It depends on how equador wants to play.
Situation 1)
The cave to the UK, and hand over Assange. They do this because of international pressures and the desire to play with the big boys.
Situation 2)
They staunchly refuse to hand over Assange, ad either keep him in the embassy indefinately, or concoct a wild plan to get him out of the UK. They do this because they are tired of being bullied, and want to flip the dirty dealers the bird.
Situation 3)
They refuse to give up assage, and the UK jumps the shark and makes good on its threat to smash the embassy. Equador retaliates on the world stage with a major smear campaign.
Situation 4)
Equador expects the UK to make good on the threat, hides or sneaks assange out of the country, and the UK invades the embassy. Equador shows that assange is not in the country, (Either using false footage, or real footage.) And has not been for some time, and declares the UK's actions unwarranted, and decries their intelligence agencies, and their legitimacy as a peaceful and law abiding nation.
Personally though, if I were an equadorian diplomat, here is what I would do:
Situation 5)
Fabricate a story of helping assange leave the country, and arrange the expected limo trip to an international airport. Place a costumed mannequin in the back seat with darkened windows on the limo. The UK bobbies will attempt to stop the driver. The driver avoids capture, and causes a scene, with the police escallating response. (Think "OJ simpson car chase"). The embassy plays along with the charade, deploring the UK's behavior in the matter. Once a significant portion of the local police force is engaged in the farce, load assange into the back of a delivery lorry, and discretely drive him nonchalantly to france via the chunnel, and evacuate him via plane that way. When the UK storms the embassy, they will not find him.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're missing the fact that China has been investing heavily in Latin America over the past decade or so. A lot of countries down here see that the future is China, who is their new powerful friend. So while the West threatens and adopts a dictatorial tone when offering "trade agreements" that are a great deal - for the US oh and by the way you need to change your laws to match ours if you want in on this agreement - China has been building bridges, roads, stadiums, hospitals... with no strings attached.
This is not the 1980's and if the people paid to make the decisions are using that playbook they are in for a shock, in my opinion. The desire to "play with the big boys" no longer means kissing American ass.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Informative)
All of these 'situations' assume embassies that look a lot like the embassies that the US or Britain might normally have in foreign capitals.... Big mansion-like buildings surrounded by a fence... certainly something with a nice private place for a limo to pull up and still be on embassy grounds. Equador doesn't have one of those.
Equador has a bit of office space in the middle of a building that has other office space. There is no private helipad or carport or other place to try any of the 'situations' that anyone has suggested. You can safely assume that he elevators/doors/stairs/windows are under surveillance. There'll be no sneaking.
Situation 6) Assange becomes an Australian senator (Score:5, Interesting)
Situation 6) Ecuador grants Assange asylum, the UK don't carry through their threat of storming the embassy and the situation remains as a stand-off with Assange holed up in the embassy ... until 2013 when an Australian election is due. Assange has already publicly stated that he is considering running for election to the senate next year. He does and is elected easily (as he would need only 14.3% of the population of whatever state he stands in to vote for him - probably Victoria). This escalates the situation to a much higher level - the UK/US/Sweden would now be looking at arresting an elected Australian politician.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. A major international incident about this?
Yeah right. This is either a rumor, posturing or somebody in London ready to do some unprecedented US ass kissing.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Impressive. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone threaten to storm an embassy. I haven't even seen the Chinese do this. Note to everyone: this is what happens if you threaten to thoroughly upend the balance of power, expose secrets everywhere, and generally fuck with people in power. If you do this, you better make sure you have an equally strong power backing you. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life in jail, regardless of whether you actually broke any laws.
On the upside, props to Assange. I don't think he saw this coming, but I do think that what he did was a service to the world.
While storming the embassy would be an immediate defeat for Assange, I can't help but think it would prove a massive victory for Wikileaks in the battle over public opinion.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Except.... how many people actually think that what Assange is doing is right? How many would be ok with strong-arming Ecuador into giving him up? Compare that with how many people are ok to just throw him in the slammer for creating, hosting and advocating Wikileaks. This won't even register on the PR-meter.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't just about their own population. Violating the sovereignty of a friendly nation's embassy contravenes centuries of international law. This is the kind of action one would only expect from a rogue state.
Among other things, if they do this, you can expect the European Parliament to come down *hard* on one of their member states for violating international law, and therefore damaging the standing of the European Union in international negotiations.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Informative)
Storming an embassy is not new. I guess you never heard about the storming of the American embassy in Tehran. [wikipedia.org]
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sure the current UK government longs to be thought of in the same context as Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's Iranian Revolutionary government.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Also note that they're threatening to raid the embassy for someone who's alleged crime isn't even treason - this is still over the dubious sex crime charges. It's amazing that that the UK is even considering setting this kind of precedent over a moderate criminal charge, just because he kind of embarrassed them.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
They're not even sex charges! Since he's only wanted for questioning, this could have, should have, and would have in any other situation been done over the phone or in person outside of Sweden. No charges have actually been filed. However they don't want to do that. They want him in Sweden over mere questioning and are trying to get him extradited for it, to the point they're willing to invade an embassy which has all sorts of political implications to accomplish the goal? Over questioning? The whole thing makes you want to facepalm. Even if you don't believe all the conspiracy theories, it's hard to just shrug all this off.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, the sex crime being "pressuring to continue when she wanted a condom, despite an implicit, but not explicit, 'no'". It's a lesser thing than what most of the world calls rape, but it's more than you suggest.
It's still certainly not an excuse to invade foreign soil.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Informative)
I understand we were thanked by the citizens of Afghanistan in New York a few years back, in September, for a similar action.
Saudi Arabia: fifteen hijackers
United Arab Emirates: two hijackers
Lebanon: one hijacker
Egypt: one hijacker
Murder of Yvonne Fletcher (Score:4, Insightful)
They didn't even storm the Libyan Embassy when a Police officer was murdered from the Embassy itself back in (you guessed it) 1984.
The British surrounded the Embassy for 11 days, after which the Libyans reciprocated - and that is the appropriate response. Perhaps with other LatAm countries in solidarity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Just a heartbeat from the presidency, huh??
Now, if Julian Assange is an international terrorist, what does that make the bloodiest of Americans, John Negroponte of Yale's Jackson Institute?
http://www.redrat.net/BUSH_WAR/negroponte2.htm [redrat.net]
http://warcriminalswatch.org/index.php/the-culpable/36-the-culprits/78-john-negroponte [warcriminalswatch.org]
http://www.ww4report.com/negropontedeathsquad [ww4report.com]
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/negroponte.htm [apfn.org]
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Possibly the question isn't will Ecuador stand and call the UK's bluff, but would the UK follow through if forced?
If the UK did in fact storm an embassy and as a consequence violate sovereign state, they are basically saying to anyone who may consider them an 'enemy' that they don't recognise consulates as sovereign territory so their own embassies in foreign countries are then at risk of incursion. Do they really want to do that in China or the Middle East or Africa or anywhere else they may have sensitive relationships?
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Same net international effect. They might be able to do it, but the instant they do every single embassy in the UK will not be happy.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you really think people in this league of politics are impressed by technicalities? Yes, they could, and it would be legal. But even if they give it back after they've gained forced entry and made an arrest, the damage is done. The moment they do, every other country will have the option of exercising that same perfectly legal right against all of Britain's embassies. At the very least, I'd expect the British to be packed off home from Ecuador, and any other country that's pissed at Britmerica has a golden opportunity to expose their hypocritical concepts of "democracy" on the world stage.
They would be provoking a major international diplomatic incident, quite probably with multiple, powerful countries involved, over (allegedly) whether Assange spends a week picking up trash in Stockholme.
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... (Score:4, Informative)
Exactly right, the actual wording of the letter can be found in box at the link to TFA.
So, for example, the UK could end its recognition of Ecuador's diplomats so that they all go home and the embassy is no longer an embassy. At this point, the UK could storm the building but the building would no longer be Ecuador's diplomatic mission to the UK.
The US abandoned the Saigon embassy (Score:5, Insightful)
Says wikipedia about the Saigon embassy: "The Americans and the refugees they flew out were generally allowed to leave without intervention from either the North or South Vietnamese. Pilots of helicopters heading to Tan Son Nhat were aware that PAVN anti-aircraft guns were tracking them, but they refrained from firing. The Hanoi leadership, reckoning that completion of the evacuation would lessen the risk of American intervention, had instructed Dng not to target the airlift itself."
The US abandoned the embassy, and only then did the North Vietnamese invade it. Their actions showed an acute awareness of it being off-limits. Whether they would have invaded it if it had not been abandoned is an alternate universe question.
There's one hell of a lot of tradition behind leaving embassies and ambassadors alone, stretching way back to the middle ages at least.
This is hideous (Score:5, Insightful)
If we could ask the writers of yesteryear... (Score:4, Interesting)
What would Aldous Huxley say about all this? It's interesting to look at what some said over half a century ago.
On 21 October 1949, Huxley wrote to George Orwell, author of Nineteen Eighty-Four, congratulating him on "how fine and how profoundly important the book is". In his letter to Orwell, he predicted:
Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience.
Re:If we could ask the writers of yesteryear... (Score:4, Insightful)
Rights (Score:4, Insightful)
Will be really surprised if they storm the place (Score:5, Interesting)
The UK government has already stated that they will not let Assange leave the country, so he's stuck in that embassy anyway. There have been rumors of smuggling him to the airport in a diplomatic limo, or hiring him as a diplomat, but those are not practical and the UK could detain him once he left the embassy grounds. So why bother storming the embassy?
If by chance they do storm the embassy then it will be obvious that the US government stepped up the pressure and got impatient. Get the popcorn out, this could get interesting.
Re:Will be really surprised if they storm the plac (Score:5, Insightful)
There have been rumors of smuggling him to the airport in a diplomatic limo, or hiring him as a diplomat, but those are not practical and the UK could detain him once he left the embassy grounds. So why bother storming the embassy?
A diplomat's vehicle is considered sovereign land because it can contain diplomatic wires. Most countries would consider removing anything, or any person, from a diplomat's vehicle an act of war, the same as if they'd broken into the embassy. Now they might not exchange bullets over the matter, but you can be assured that diplomatic relations between Britain and many other countries will be harmed considerably. If they do this, nobody will trust them with their embassies again... I mean, if they're willing to storm an embassy and in the process compromising the national security and highly classified diplomatic wires of another government, violating the treaties signed between the two governments, all to to capture a guy for revealing low-level intelligence of a wholly separate government... Well, Britain simply won't be trusted after that for a long time.
Re:Will be really surprised if they storm the plac (Score:5, Interesting)
There are a few misconceptions that crop up repeatedly. Keep mind though that IANAL.
The diplomat's vehicle isn't sovereign land of the sending country. In fact, neither is the embassy. The Ecuadorian embassy in the UK is still sovereign land of the UK, however, it is inviolable (Article 22 of the Vienna convention). Same article specifies that the vehicles can not be searched. But it's precisely this status of embassies - as opposed to them being sovereign land of the sending state as it's often believed - is, in my reading, what the UK uses to give itself the right to revoke unilaterally that status, under the act cited in the summary.
If the embassy has diplomatic vehicles parked within the premises and not across the street or elsewhere, Assange can get into one of those vehicles, with a diplomat, and drive somewhere, with the police not having the right to detain him. Problem for him is he'd have to get out at the airport or somewhere.
Another comment I saw repeated several times elsewhere is that Ecuador could grant Assange citizenship and diplomat status, making him immune. This is not so - the receiving nation must explicitly agree to acknowledge each member of the mission. Obviously Assange would never be acknowledged as a diplomat by the UK. From my understanding of international law, even if Assange was to become the President of Ecuador, he would still not be enjoying immunity as that applies on official visits of the head of state.
Anyway, his is getting interesting and rapidly heading somewhere. Ecuador is set to announce its decision on asylum in about 12 hours, the UK might be determined to act before then. If they do not, there might be drama around Assange trying to leave the UK. Unless, of course, he just stays holed up there indefinitely.
Re:Will be really surprised if they storm the plac (Score:4, Insightful)
People have tried to move people via diplomatic bags before. It's never worked, at least as far as is known (there's one suspected case from Egypt long ago, but it's not really certain). It failed with Mordechai Ben Masoud Louk, it failed with Umaru Dikko, etc. And it especially wouldn't work if you tried it on something as obviously in violation of the Vienna Convention as a car. The British have already made it quite clear that they plan to stop any vehicles leaving the embassy.
Embassies are not magic. Their immunity basically only extends as far as the host state is willing to tolerate them, because ultimately, the host state has all the cards, including the right to expel diplomats and close embassies altogether. The more the embassy tries to f*** with the laws of the host state and cheat the Vienna Convention, the less they tend to be tolerated. And Ecuador already has a less than stellar record with their diplomatic pouches (they got caught using them to smuggle cocaine to Italy once)
A Joke? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
An Ugly Precedent (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is the message that I've sent to David Cameron this evening,. If anyone else feels strongly about this and wishes to use my text, please feel free. You can reach him here [number10.gov.uk].
Dear Mr Cameron,
I have read reports in the international press this evening, citing Ecuador's Foreign Minister, that the UK is considering entering the London Embassy of Ecuador without Ecuador's permission in order to arrest Mr Julian Assange, who is seeking refuge there.
I strongly urge the UK not to take this action, which would be a violation of Article 22 of the Vienna Convention. It would set an ugly precedent that would not be lost on other countries. Historically, the UK has valued the rule of law. When the UK contravenes international law, it sends a very unfortunate message to other countries who do not value the rule of law. That message is: "you, too, can ride roughshod over international law".
If the UK enters the Embassy of Ecuador without permission I predict that other countries will use this chilling precedent to do likewise, perhaps against a UK embassy.
Please seek a peaceful agreement with Ecuador.
Re:An Ugly Precedent (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that should get you on some interesting lists.
Ecuador should invade the Falkland Islands... (Score:5, Funny)
... then hand them over to Argentina. Then send the Brits a diplomatic cable: "Fuck me? Well fuck you too."
The UK specifically said they won't be raiding (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19259623 [bbc.co.uk]
They say they are not about to raid the embassy.
Much like anything else involving Assange, it appears Assange's side is amping up the hype.
Re:Sexual assault, huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Under Swedish law, it's not their charges to press. It's the public "Ã¥klagare" (prosecutor) who decides whether to press charges in case of sexual assault. The victims are witnesses, not parts.
As for the speculations that Sweden, its police force and prosecutor are somehow involved in a conspiracy to do all this just to hand him over to the US, that's tin foil hat talk. For one thing, this is Sweden, which is not even a NATO country. The ties to the US are not especially strong. And, if the US had wanted him that badly, they would have just picked him up, and not relied on a country that's known for high integrity and isn't even an ally.. It's not like the US hasn't abducted people before.
But more tot he point, both Occam and Freud agrees that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. The simplest explanation is that Sweden wants him extradited so they can, in accordance with their laws, question him. They are not permitted by their own laws to do that outside Sweden, so they need him on Swedish ground.
The UK courts agree with the extradition.
Please, people, take off your tin foil hats and see this for what it is.
FALSE -- A few normal cops were allowed in (Score:4, Informative)
The source linked by the parent is misleading. The events are being live-tweeted by one James Albury [twitter.com]. He has since clarified that:
I wouldnt describe it as a raid. The police entered side door peaceably. I dont think area they are in is sovereign Ecuadorian.
Just regular, everyday police. Not armed or anything and were apparently allowed in by Ecuadorian officials.
Re:Hmnnn (Score:4, Funny)
Hewlett-Packard makes ammunition? I thought they only made cheap printer ink and sold it in expensive half filled cartridges.
I wouldn't buy ammunition from HP though, it wouldn't work with your gun unless you bought a special chip, and then while the clip looks like it's full, the gun will tell you it's empty half way through so you have to go buy more ammo.