Intellectual Ventures Tied To 1,300 Shell Companies 140
dgharmon writes "New research (PDF) shows that Intellectual Ventures is tied to at least 1,300 shell companies whose sole purpose is to coerce real companies into buying patent license that they don't want or need. Those who resist the 'patent trolls' are dragged into nightmarish lawsuits."
Ah yes, the American dream... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ah yes, the American dream... (Score:5, Insightful)
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But they make business in France, that's why.
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But those aren't *software* patents.
1300 shell companies (Score:2)
1300 shell companies all tangled up in a maze of twisty little patent lawsuits sounds like a plot device from Charlie Stross's Accelerando.
Re:Ah yes, the American dream... (Score:4, Funny)
It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland.
Ah yes, France, the Mecca of fine IT judgement.
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You don't understand. Europeans have a mission from god to let everybody else know what they do, and why what other countries are doing is wrong.
Well at least we don't use that viewpoint as a pretense to invade other countries.
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And we haven't been taking orders from god for some time now
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There is no relation whatsoever between tax rates and software patents. If you want to talk about higher tax rates, you could point out that you can focus on running your business instead of providing health care for your employees.
Personally, I wouldn't start a company in Silicon Valley unless I was trying to raise VC lucre and sell out as soon as possible. High cost of living, terrible state bureaucracy, etc.
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And that's why France has such a thriving startup business culture, right?
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Well Duh. French citizens probably want to work in France. No surprise. But certainly it is a nice place to work too if you're American. Cost of living is high, but it's also high in a lot of areas with a booming economy. Weather is nice, the region is great, etc. You just have to put up with the militant cyclists and occasional hipsters from SF (though they rarely venture outside their safety zone).
Re:Ah yes, the American dream... (Score:4, Interesting)
It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland.
I live in Silicon Valley, and I know about a dozen current or former French citizens working here. Starting an IT business in France will give you plenty of bureaucracy and taxes, but no protection from patent lawsuits. You can be sued anywhere you do business, and for most IT companies that means worldwide from the very beginning. I started my first company more than twenty years ago, and was surprised when I announced my first product and my first five orders were all from outside the USA.
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It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland. This is a place where you go to get investors, but you certainly don't open a company there. Software patents is really a strategical consideration that make our (moderately) higher tax rates seem a worthy cost.
I have a IT company in France, and I have one in the UK too. And much as I love the place, I have to correct you.
The only reason my IT company in France is still open, is that its the only legal way for me to be resident here and work from home as it takes on subcon work from the UK company so that I can do the labor side of it. Nobody in their right mind would *choose* to base in the sprawling mess of legislation, visits to the chambiers du metiers, social taxes, rules around business operation and employm
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Intellectual bondage? (Score:2)
They're asking for it, so who brought the whip?
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How often does this really happen, though?
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quite a LOT
http://news.google.com/search?q=eminent+domain+2012 [google.com]
sample:
http://www2.wsls.com/news/2012/aug/09/pulaski-landowner-reacts-after-winning-eminent-dom-ar-2120671/ [wsls.com]
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How often does this really happen, though?
You'd be surprised, apparently. There are (numerous) law firms whose sole practice revolves around defending eminent domain defendants. Law firms don't stay in business if there are no citizens to suck dry needing their services.
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How often does this really happen, though?
One notable example from my neck of the woods are the businesses shunted out of the way so that Richfield could offer Best Buy a choice spot for their new corporate headquarters using eminent domain and tax-increment financing.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-court-of-appeals/1073064.html [findlaw.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/realestate/05domain.html [nytimes.com]
A smaller business and residences were basically kicked out to make space for a big fish, all in the name of larger tax revenue. This wasn't even "deep government ties
Re:Ah yes, the American dream... (Score:5, Interesting)
I built my first company in the Silicon Valley, sold it, build my second company in Silicon Valley, sold it, and build my third company in Asia
Why?
Not because of "cheaper labor", hacking cost is universal, whether it's in Silicon Valley or in Asia
I built my third company in Asia because I could plenty of talents in Asia, while on the other hand, the younger batch who moved to Silicon Valley are there not because of their interest in hacking but because of money - Technology do not progress because of money, technology progress because of people who want to do something different
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How can someone with such poor English skills create companies? You have errors in every single sentence!
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Fine, do that. I hope you SOLD your company though, because anything you ship over there is theirs now, asshole.
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Yes, it sucks to pay people what they are worth, and to pay taxes that support those people through infrastructure, education, and safety.
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Your income tax isn't going to any infrastructure other than that of the banks.
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I think your argument was a non-one.
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Overrated? OK Mr teabagger, waste another point on me, because Ryanrule's comment was insightful and I'm repeating it. Flamebait, overrated, redundant, fine, I have a lot more karma than you have mod points. Mod away, baby. Maybe wasting points on me will keep you from unfairly modding someone else.
Ryanrule said Yes, it sucks to pay people what they are worth, and to pay taxes that support those people through infrastructure, education, and safety.
FTFA (Score:5, Funny)
Patent trolling took off after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office began issuing a flood of questionable âoebusiness methodâ patents related to things like software and, believe it or not, a crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In 2006, lawyers used such a patent to threaten Research in Motion with an injunction against the BlackBerry and extract a $612 million payout.
Well that's clearly why the BlackBerry has been having trouble in the market, RIM spent too much of their product development time working on sandwiches, and patent infringing sandwiches at that.
Re:FTFA (Score:4, Funny)
I agree. They should've used ice cream instead of peanut butter and jelly, before Google could've caught on to that idea.
Re:FTFA (Score:5, Interesting)
Patent trolling took off after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office began issuing a flood of questionable âoebusiness methodâ patents related to things like software and, believe it or not, a crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In 2006, lawyers used such a patent to threaten Research in Motion with an injunction against the BlackBerry and extract a $612 million payout.
Well that's clearly why the BlackBerry has been having trouble in the market, RIM spent too much of their product development time working on sandwiches, and patent infringing sandwiches at that.
Blackberry is an obvious mistake. The crustless PB&J uses strawberry.
Anyway, why hasn't someone pointed out that Intellectual Ventures was founded by the ex-CTO of Microsoft Nathan Myhrvold and still partners with Microsoft on patent deals. Are all the MS haters asleep?
Old news (Score:5, Informative)
This American Life reported this over a year ago. The podcast is well worth hearing:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack/ [thisamericanlife.org]
What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:3, Funny)
This is one person who actually does deserve to die. Painfully.
You know there is an obvious failure in society when shit people like him can get away with doing so much damage to thousands, possibly even millions of people through the effort that actual decent people were putting in to help the poor.
Funny how regulators and law get involved when a company is copying other people, but when it is a BLATANTLY obvious troll like this, HE GETS AWAY WITH IT. IN A COURTROOM. WHY?! ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID? Every single one of those judges should be locked up for being clinically unstable.
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, put down the whiskey now, and stay out of Colorado, k?
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:4, Insightful)
The trolls very rarely get away with this stuff in a courtroom. Most of the time they settle out of court, because the defendant does not have the resources (in case of a small company) or it's just cheaper for them (in case of larger companies defending). Patent trolls are, most of the time, very scared of actually having to go to court. If this happens they will probably lose. And if they lose a dangerous, at least for them, precedent would be set.
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, see Judge Willian Alsup and Judge Richard Posner.
Yes, these two are amazing. Any judge who learns to program Java for a trial deserves credit.
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Also, see Judge Willian Alsup and Judge Richard Posner.
Yes, these two are amazing. Any judge who learns to program Java for a trial deserves credit.
I seem to recall that the judge had learned Java previously for reasons unrelated to the trial, perhaps as a hobby.
Did you hear otherwise, and if so, have you got a link? That would be quite a feat and a sign of being dedicated to his job.
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:4, Informative)
1300 - 1 = 1299 (Score:3)
Oh noes! You mean... they have to continue trolling with only their remaining 1299 shell companies!
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:4, Informative)
Apple is one of the few patent trolls that actually produces a product. They don't have to live in fear. They have lots of money, lots of patents, and a huge market with an actual profit margin. They're a beast.
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe having a portfolio full of bullshit obvious, vague and simple patents and using them to intimidate and vanquish competition qualifies as trolling as well.
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People believe all sorts of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll [wikipedia.org]
Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? (Score:5, Informative)
Fine, Apple is a patent douche, happy now?
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Much better. And now you know what a patent troll is!
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Since when is wikipedia a good citation? Especially about something controversial, like he meaning of a twenty year old word? Remember, anybody can edit it, you don't have to be a lexicographer, all you need is an opinion enough others share. How about http://dictionary.reference.com/ [reference.com]
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If you want to quibble about the source then go to the original sources:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGoZFzHkhs [youtube.com]
http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=cff2afd3-c24e-42e5-aa68-a4b4e7524177 [iam-magazine.com]
Or more than one dictionary:
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/patent+troll [thefreedictionary.com]
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/patent-troll.html [businessdictionary.com]
http://www.techopedia.com/definition/28564/patent-troll [techopedia.com]
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/patent-troll [onlineslan...ionary.com]
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=p [urbandictionary.com]
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How that would make all the other companies in the sector that also have a bs patents portfolio but chose to cross license it instead ? We were told/sold in the past that big companies only got patent to defend themselves - you know, for the greater good. That is false, they use their patent portfolio to intimidate (cross license or we sue) and raise the barrier of entry in the market.(better not enter our market until you can pay the ticket in)
Since Apple has started suing other companies instead of cr
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We don't have a good term for what Apple does. As you point out, it isn't QUITE trolling since they are producing products. However, they certainly do seem to be employing the same sleezy tactics.
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We don't have a good term for what Apple does. As you point out, it isn't QUITE trolling since they are producing products. However, they certainly do seem to be employing the same sleezy tactics.
Those sleazy tactics involve weaving a collection of questionable or down right bogus patents into a lawsuit, then casting it any and all opponents in the hopes to hamper them or catch a few who are unable to litigate, thus netting huge settlements. Sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me -- Drag-Net is another name for trolling too. Have you ever even been fishing before? Or has the Internet leached away all other reality leaving only it's pedantically demented definition of "troll" i
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It IS trolling when apple sues people for making products in markets where apple isn't.
For example the $200 tablet is not competing with the $600 tablet. If I want to buy a google nexus 7 there is NO WAY I am going to end up with an ipad, and vice versa.
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It's the same market. I am not a big fan of Apple, but you're kidding yourself if you think a 7" tablet has no impact on the iPad, even if Apple do not release a smaller iPad. Think of it this way, how many people are going to buy both a 7" tablet and a 10" tablet? Most will buy one or the other and live with the compromises. Just like most people will either get an ultrabook or a more portly larger laptop. They won't get both.
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nightmarish lawsuits (Score:2)
Ahhh... The system works, perfectly. It actually runs itself. Who could ask for more?
that's 1300x the job creation! (Score:5, Funny)
Intellectual Ventures are true American heroes!
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You're a master of spin. You should be in politics.
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and be crowned King Nothing!
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If they make lots of money for their clients, then they certainly are.
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their clients
Who??
Patent Trolls (Score:3, Insightful)
I would like second to this. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are already laws in place to deal with those crooks. The problem is selective application of laws - ordinary people will be jailed for years for having a little bit of marijuana in possesion, while crooky ruling elite is clearly above the law and they can do whatever they want. And if they break laws (stealing billions in the process), enforcement officials will cover it up (instead of doing what they're supposed to do) or some law retroactively legalizing criminal ruling crooks' behavior will be passed.
Wake up folks, 2012 US of A is a two-tiered society, pretty much like medieval Europe. Technology and cheap energy is the only thing keeping standard of live relatively high but if it ends, you'll get back into dark ages sooner than you think.
hey now (Score:2, Offtopic)
tied to at least 1,300 shell companies
Hey now, don't forget corporations are people! This story is racist.
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So? Soylent Green is people, too, but I don't hear anyone campaigning for its rights.
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Re:hey now (Score:4, Funny)
I'm more leaning towards mincing corporations to feed the hungry.
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nightmarish lawsuits? (Score:1)
Perhaps Kafka needs to assert his IP at this point???
The Trial [wikipedia.org]
Oh wait....
Wow... Organized Crime? (Score:5, Insightful)
This sounds *exactly* like how organized crime (mobs) operate. Where the hell is the FBI I'm paying for? Will they please focus on relevant issues?!?!?!
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Nope, too busy working for the MPAA/RIAA raiding foreign websites on controversial and/or illegal grounds.
Re:Wow... Organized Crime? (Score:4, Insightful)
What these guys are doing is not illegal, just anti-social.
Re:Wow... Organized Crime? (Score:5, Informative)
It is illegal to conspire or collude for the purpose of extortion, and it is also illegal to burden the courts with persistent unreasonable litigation.
The real Mob conducts their 'crime' in similar ways that, on the surface, appear legal. What you see in movies/HBO is not what really goes down.
This documentary will stream on netflix. You will see why it was hard for the FBI to crack down on the Mob -- that they conducted themselves very much within the scheme of what has the appearance of legal activity.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43392317/?__source=vty [cnbc.com]|mobmoney|&par=vty
If you don't watch it to learn what I mean, I'll give you a breakdown of one example given in the film.
1) Dude1: decides to build a new construction in a place with mob influence.
2) Wiseguy1/Wiseguy2 stop by and have a casual conversation about how Dude1 *will* buy his concrete from "Legit Company A", a company that charges about $1/cu.ft. over normal market prices.
If Dude1 agrees, life goes on as normal and it would appear that Dude1 isn't a good shopper.
If Dude1 disagrees....
3) Deliveries from various orders needed for the business never come.
4) Protests/Picket-lines show up at the build site.
If Dude1 still disagrees.....
5) Wiseguy1/Wiseguy2 have a physical intervention that changes Dude1's mind, or ends Dude1.
---------
It isn't a reach to say that the topic at hand follows these same 'on paper' techniques to extort money. It is very much the same a minor difference being that the lawyers don't actually do physical intimidation, but rather legal.
I hope this has been informative.
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The real Mob conducts their 'crime' in similar ways that, on the surface, appear legal.
You're saying that the Mafia doesn't kill people, doesn't sell drugs, and doesn't destroy property to intimidate people? Right.
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I didn't say that... here's a hint "...on the surface..."
Also, anyone that knows the mob knows they do not sell drugs. It brings heat and the real mob isn't as risky as the movie mob.
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I didn't say that... here's a hint "...on the surface..."
Oh, so you're implying under the surface, Intellectual Ventures is killing people? Or some other illegal activity?
Also, anyone that knows the mob knows they do not sell drugs.
Things that 'anyone knows' are often wrong. I don't even know why you think that. I mean, maybe they don't, but they sure get accused of it [guardian.co.uk]. And why not? It's profitable.
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Watch the documentary I linked earlier so you can understand this conversation. Your quick google search to 'prove' the mob deals drugs is irrelevant and likely an outlier/deviant.
Once you understand how the mob actually works, then you can re-read this whole conversation and see the striking similarites between the mob and this litgious cabal.
Or you're a troll...
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Once you understand how the mob actually works, then you can re-read this whole conversation and see the striking similarites between the mob and this litgious cabal.
The difference is one stays legal and the other doesn't. both are immoral dirtbags.
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Shell companies (Score:5, Funny)
Summary is wrong, it's actually 1300 Exxon-Mobile companies,.
I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
This behaviour is the natural and logical outcome of the current patent system.
Did anybody seriously expect anything different?
They claim to fight parasites? (Score:2)
(if you don't get it, RTFA)
Now that's rich... but hey, I have a proposal, why not cut out the middle man? Instead of siphoning away money from real companies to fight mosquitos, just shut down and presto, one of the biggest parasites of today instantly wiped out.
Give IV a break. (Score:4, Informative)
They're doing G-d's Work [geekwire.com].
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Dammit. Someone took me seriously. I was going for "Funny".
If you pay one, the rest come knockin' (Score:5, Insightful)
So easy (Score:5, Insightful)
The politicians blah blah about cutting red tape and creating jobs but what about protecting us from evil like this? I can't imagine the flowering of new developments that would take place without bloodsuckers like these.
One of the things that hold third world countries back is that if you have the slightest bit of success some Mr Big / Warlord / Village chief / Crimelord / Well connected bureaucrat will come along and take whatever you have. There are few property rights in these countries. Yet in the western world the bloodsuckers have perverted the very thing that use to make us successful (property rights) where they do the very thing that those property rights were supposed to prevent.
My suggestions for IP reform are to significantly raise the bar as to what an invention really is. If someone invents a cool new battery don't let someone patent the use of that battery in everything. Shorten the life of a patent from 20 years to 10 years after the first significant use of that product. (or 20 years whichever comes first)
Software patents; how about no. Change the lifetimes for different categories of patent. Drug patents, 10 years. Material patents 15 years. Electronic patents 5 years.
Limit the damages to a tiny percentage of the wholesale value of a product.
Only allow the original inventors or companies that are implementing the product to launch a lawsuit. If you are sitting on a stack of patents they all you are doing is holding back the progress of humanity.
If a company has more than 30% of a market then make the licensing of their patents mandatory for a nominal cost.
Don't let universities charge too much for patents. Yet don't let their professors hive of some research to create a company and then patent the crap out of it.
Have an independent government department for patent invalidation. Having the patent office invalidate a patent is having them say they were wrong. Also judges need to be able to invalidate a patent.
Again raise the bar for what gets patented. I'm looking at you one-click-purchase!
If a suit asks for one amount and wins a much lower amount then the difference should be deducted from the awarded amount. So if they ask for a billion and win 100 million then you subtract 900 million resulting in 0 (zero dollars). This should be for all lawsuits.
Lastly if a lawfirm sues for a patent that later becomes invalidated then they can be hit with treble damages. (That is treble what they demanded.)
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Change the lifetimes for different categories of patent. Drug patents, 10 years. Material patents 15 years. Electronic patents 5 years.
While I hold a similar view of how patents have harmed more than helped a lot of innovation, I would disagree with shortening the patent lifetime of a drug to 10 years, as it typically takes 12 years to get a drug from conception to hospitals. This only leaves you 8 years of having your product in the market place to recoup your R&D expenses. Unless you can shorten the approval process to 2 years, it would be unreasonable to shorten the patent lifespan to 10.
You typically only hear about wonder-drug X w
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Keep in m
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Except it wouldn't. You don't have "The Cure for Cancer" _until_ it has passed the efficacy and safety trials. It's all well and good identifying a molecule in a lab that you think is sure-fire at killing cancer cells in rats/mice. It's another thing altogether to prove that it works in humans (including performing a placebo trial) and doesn't kill patients.
To do this you have to manufacture it in that bona fide factory, so that there's no side effects of the manufacturing process i.e. you have to make real
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Shut down east texas (Score:2)
Problem solved. Many problems solved.
Might wanna go ahead to take out west texas too. Maybe flood the state, keep the big cities above water?
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Problem solved. Many problems solved.
Might wanna go ahead to take out west texas too. Maybe flood the state, keep the big cities above water?
If you flood Texas, many of the big metro areas will inundate first. That might be a Real Good Thing (tm).
Fortunately, I live at a relatively high altitude in a sparsely populated area.
Bring it on!
Corporate reproduction (Score:5, Interesting)
If corporations were people, it would take 9 months of effort and hundreds of pounds of input to create one and you wouldn't be finished until you had successfully pushed a watermelon through a garden hose.
Instead we have this company spawning 1300 "children" in a year or two. Ridiculous.
Sounds like Charlie Stross got it right in Accelerando--as a reaction to those 1300 corporations, useful corporations with actual products are going to have to react defensively, and in an exactly reciprocal fashion. Samsung is going to have to spawn 1300 child corporations and use them to hide their assets. "Oh, you were trying to sue for infringement of your phone interface? I'm sorry, Samsung Electronics 867 doesn't produce that phone. Try Samsung Electronics 335." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 335. Oh, no, you can't sue us for that phone interface. We sold it yesterday. To whom? Call back tomorrow." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 335. Yes, we sold that phone interface to Samsung Electronics 779." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 779. Oh no, you can't sue us for that phone interface. We sold it yesterday. To whome? Call back tomorrow..."
Patent Troll-a-rama (Score:1)
Intellectual Ventures is a clearing house of patent troll-dom. They aren't the only ones mind you, but they are among the worst. Rat Bastards!
Misleading title. (Score:2)
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