ISP 'Six Strikes' Plan Delayed 157
MrSeb sends this excerpt from DailyDot:
"Shortly, a new system in the U.S. will allow your ISP to give you gradually sterner warnings and possible punishment if you download copyrighted material. The Copyright Alerts System (CAS) — more commonly known as the 'six strikes' policy, after the number of warnings users receive — is coming. Soon. Any minute now. Really. But it's not here yet, even though several news outlets — including CNN — said the system would go online yesterday, Thursday. Speaking to the Daily Dot, a press contact for the six strikes system says: 'We do not intend to launch until we are confident that the program is consumer friendly. We expect our implementation to begin later this year, with each of the ISPs launching at potentially overlapping but different times.' ... The six strikes system is officially helmed by an industry coalition called the Center for Copyright Information (CCI), which was created by the MPAA and RIAA. It counts the U.S.'s five top ISPs under its umbrella: AT&T, Cablevision, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Verizon."
No COX? (Score:2)
Re:No COX? (Score:4, Informative)
Cox doesn't fuck around. I have their 50 Mbps package for $100 a month. I don't have cable. I don't get OTA broadcasts, because I've not bought an antenna. I do download about 2 TB of data a month between Netflix, Pandora, and others. I've never had a word said to me about it. They even give me additional bandwidth for the first few megabytes of a transfer when network congestion allows. They call this Superboost, I think. Works well when downloading a bunch of very small files that will be decoded and combined into a bunch of bigger files. They don't seem to care that their are effectively Superboosting the entire multi-gigabyte download.
Re:No COX? (Score:5, Informative)
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he could be pulling a lot off of usenet i know guy with two internet connections in his house one comcast, one qwest/c-link, and he reguarly pulls the max off of both.
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Cox doesn't fuck around.
sigh. slashdot, you never change, do you?
Re:No COX? (Score:4, Informative)
Cox has had a 3 strikes policy regarding DCMA notices since 2008. Enforcement has been spotty, but they treat it as a TOC violation.
Wanna try it out and see if they still enforce it?
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Verizon has or had something similar. I came home one evening to find the internet was down (verizon). after calling support, I learned that I was accused of downloading copyrighted materials 3 times and I should have seen an email about it.
After arguing with the tech that I couldn't receive email with my internet shut off, they expanded on the claims. I denied the accusations and stated that no one was at the house at the time of the claimed copyrighted materials BS and that I have no wireless for someone
Make up your damn mind! (Score:5, Insightful)
the 'six strikes' policy, after the number of warnings users receive â" is coming.
We do not intend to launch until we are confident that the program is consumer friendly.
Either you're going to eventually launch it, or not. It will never be 'consumer friendly' since it's a blatantly anti-consumer move intended to whore out to an unrepentantly anti-consumer organization.
Re:Make up your damn mind! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Either you're going to eventually launch it, or not. It will never be 'consumer friendly' since it's a blatantly anti-consumer move intended to whore out to an unrepentantly anti-consumer organization.
Just wait until they've done this to about two dozen decent programmers... they'll invent some new crypto protocol that makes bittorrent look like the redheaded stepchild of piracy... "You can't stop the signal, Mel." -- Mr. Universe
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Mel?
Re:Make up your damn mind! (Score:4, Informative)
Either you're going to eventually launch it, or not. It will never be 'consumer friendly' since it's a blatantly anti-consumer move intended to whore out to an unrepentantly anti-consumer organization.
Just wait until they've done this to about two dozen decent programmers... they'll invent some new crypto protocol that makes bittorrent look like the redheaded stepchild of piracy... "You can't stop the signal, Mel." -- Mr. Universe
Already been done. It is called BTGuard and you can get it plugged into most torrent trackers for a small monthly fee. Lifehacker ran an article about it not long ago.
http://lifehacker.com/5863380/how-to-completely-anonymize-your-bittorrent-traffic-with-btguard [lifehacker.com]
http://btguard.com/ [btguard.com]
Also, as outlined in the lifehacker article there are other solutions to mask the traffic from an ISP and there is no way in hell they can block some of them because they have much broader uses than just hiding your torrent tracking traffic. VPNs are way too widely used by so many businesses for telecommutes and other such, so it will ALWAYS be an option. And since (at least I think) it would be illegal wiretapping for them to capture your packets and decrypt them, there is not a damn thing they can do about it.
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Now consider the nature of six strike or three strike. Download copyrighted material, WTF, pretty much the whole of the internet is copyrighted, when I create a web page it is copyrighted. The person distributing the content is responsible for issues of copyright, stories, images, sound, video and games. How can I the end user ensure far more than a billion web pages are copyright correct.
This is starting to smell like the RIAA/MPAA US Mafia is trying to steal everyone else's copyrighted content and clai
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Have you ever heard of "collateral damage"? This Six Strikes nonsense doesn't require any courts to be involved (which means there will be no standard of evidence) and therefore will certainly affect innocents.
On the other hand, courts don't give you six strikes, either. =)
Too Late (Score:2, Insightful)
Already switched to a local ISP -- the moment people realize some have it and others don't they will flock to non implementing parties. It's only those without a choice getting screwed.
Re:Too Late (Score:5, Insightful)
Already switched to a local ISP
That's great if you're one of the rare few who have that option for broadband. I have exactly two options for broadband in my community: a big telco and a big cableco (both of whom will certainly be participating in any MPAA/RIAA scheme). If you count 3G as broadband, you could add a couple of more options to that--but with such small bandwidth caps on those, no one is going to be using them for much pirating anyway.
Re:Too Late (Score:4, Interesting)
Which reminds me. Has anyone else noticed the price for fiber optic cables (outdoor) are extremely low these days? They can carry a signal for a mile without a repeater.
Over the hill, and through the woods...
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It does.
Re:Too Late (Score:4, Insightful)
CCI (Score:3, Funny)
It's good to know that this will be handled by an impartial organization...
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Made up of people whose objectivity can be measured by the number of fraudulent lawsuits they've filed, then quickly withdrawn.
DoJ, get off your fat ass, and spank these guys!
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Made up of people whose objectivity can be measured by the number of fraudulent lawsuits they've filed, then quickly withdrawn.
DoJ, get off your fat ass, and spank these guys!
It's the man who does the spanking in this relationship, not the bitch.
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DOJ (Score:2)
you still have faith in this DOJ???
Parts of the DOJ are very highly respected. The SG's office (which I think is technically part of Justice) and the Civil Right's Division, for example. And even in the slightly less-highly-respected parts, there are some very highly respected and incredibly nice people.
There are also at least some assholes and even some incompetents, but the asshole bit is kind of a natural consequence of how the US criminal justice system works. The assholes generally mean well, but they are too quick to trample on the
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I light a candle for them, that they might suddenly come to their senses and say "Look, we've all been accepting bribes for years, and at first, we didn't think it was hurting anyone; but now, now we can hear our friends screaming out in the streets, and while we cannot go back in time and undo our apathy, we can prevent things from getting worse."
I do not think that word means what you think... (Score:5, Informative)
We do not intend to launch until we are confident that the program is consumer friendly.
It is, inherently, not consumer friendly.
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Exactly.
Well, you know what I think? (Score:4, Funny)
Comment has been edited to fit with Comcast's Anonymous-Posting Policy found in our ToS.
Thank you for using Comcast, anonymous poster!
Hollywood accounting is stealing (Score:5, Insightful)
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when the people that realize that start paying for congress and the senate's re-election.
When you actually buy the MPAA/RIAA's crap you are paying for them to lobby the other way, which a majority of people do...
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When the people who work in Hollywood stand up and demand that they stop getting screwed over. If they won't first stand up for themselves, there's no way for anyone else to stand alongside them.
Just as long as they don't monitor (Score:4, Interesting)
usenet. Keep ports 119 and 563 out of their meddling hands and I'll remain a happy camper.
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Get a provider that supports SSL. Then you can claim you downloaded 350GB of Linux distros last month!
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Get a provider that supports SSL. Then you can claim you downloaded 350GB of Linux distros last month!
What, you mean you didn't?
Luddite.
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I'm with ya. But there have been a recent rash of DMCA takedowns, so somebody somewhere has finally caught on...
How do you "take down" something that has been propagated to servers all over the world?
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Dude!
The first rule of usenet is you do not talk about usenet!
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then why are you?
Anyone else (Score:1)
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Violates the Data Treaties with Canada and the EU (Score:5, Interesting)
Too bad this violates the Data Treaties that the US signed with both the EU and Canada over Data Privacy and Copyright.
Canadian citizens have a stronger right to use material, as was ruled yesterday, and since the US Senate affirmed both International Treaties, it is bound to respect their rights, as treaties override any national laws or actions, as our US Constitution specifies.
But, hey, nice fake out, greed heads.
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Maybe so, but do you think Joe user is going to sue the big boys for cutting off his service? And if Joe wins, what do you think the damages will be? Restoration of service and some lawyer's fees? And what IP lawyer do you think will take on such a case?
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Maybe so, but do you think Joe user is going to sue the big boys for cutting off his service? And if Joe wins, what do you think the damages will be? Restoration of service and some lawyer's fees? And what IP lawyer do you think will take on such a case?
A Canadian or EU one working pro bono, is my guess. Most likely a class action case.
Re:Violates the Data Treaties with Canada and the (Score:5, Interesting)
A woman sued Universal for issuing a DMCA takedown request to Youtube for a video of her baby dancing to Prince (see, Lenz v Universal). The EFF took on the case and she has won nearly every argument so far (The case started in 2007 and has a summary judgment hearing scheduled for October 2012). So, yes, I think someone will sue. The bigger question is could it be turned into a class action suit. If they win a test case, then lawyers will be salivating at the deep pockets involved.
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Too bad this violates the Data Treaties that the US signed with both the EU and Canada over Data Privacy and Copyright.
This is interesting. Does anyone know the names of these treaties?
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I keep hearing this, but it is clearly not the case.
From Article 6: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
National laws (the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance the
What bothers me (Score:3)
What bothers me about measures like this is how broad and intimidating they can be to the average user.
I see measures like this as nothing more than an intimidation tactic to force users into corporate marketplaces for everything. "I'm not sure if this download is going to get me a strike, so I better go pay for it on Amazon/iTunes/Google." This line of thinking is just going to cost the industry more in the long run. You don't piss off the masses with overbearing rules. The "let them eat cake" mentality is ultimately very self destructive.
Blah (Score:2)
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And, just out of curiosity, how many of them have ever considered voting third-party?
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I've thought several times that my state needs a Pirate Party, but it's kind of a one-trick (or one-platform) pony. A middle-of-the-road moderate party with IP law reform flavor might do well, picking up moderates from both main parties who have been disenfranchised, but IP reform still isn't sexy enough to be a main
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Your friends and family should be capable of grasping that.
Whoosh is available as a no-cost option.
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You probably shouldn't be using TOR for *ALL* your internet activities. After all, everything that goes through Tor comes out in plain text at an exit node that could be run by anyone.
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and it goes in plain-text through every other pipe with bigger interest in spying on you. just think who is more likly to spy ge/comcast/msnbc/universal who makes the copyrighted material or privacy advocate that does not know who or where you are, that for all he knows you could be in lawless somilia or copyright ignoring communist china. Besides it is not necessarily plain text, if you are communicating over https it is encrypted. in fact the newer tor browser bundles comes with https everywhere which aut
Respect for Privacy: The new ISP differentiator (Score:3, Informative)
So.... AT&T, Cablevision, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Verizon just managed to remove themselves from ever being considered by me again (and no, I don't ever knowingly download copyrighted material without paying for it).
Something tells me the mom&pop ISP down the road doesn't have the time/staff/inclination to bother with this kind of crap.
--
P.S.: Internet business idea #3,633,235: Privacy-focused ISP.
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And I was thinking that the triumvirate of money, stupidity, and law had decided to give it a miss after the ACTA / PIPA / SOPA debacle.
Still, it's nice to know that I have choices. Not ISPs, they seem eager to place themselves into the cross-hairs of 'not a common carrier' (good luck with that), but choices of which countries I live in. I swear, it's like that scene in the Simpsons where Principal Skinner is explaining to Lisa why they've been having so much 'magazine time.'
VPN (Score:1)
Just pay for VPN service so not even your ISP knows what your transferring
Almost all content downloaded has copyrights (Score:2)
Sloppy stuff from DailyDot : we would probably all blow through our six chances on the very first web page we visit, since just about everything that is downloaded has copyrights. The distinction between authorised and infringing use of copyrighted material, which appears to have whooshed the article author, is likely the reason this scheme is having trouble getting off the ground.
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we would probably all blow through our six chances on the very first web page we visit, since just about everything that is downloaded has copyrights.
True, and in most cases it is also virtually impossible for the average user to tell whether it's authorized or not.
Sue the ISPs (Score:5, Interesting)
And how are these 'warnings' sent? (Score:5, Interesting)
If I know any of those major ISPs, they'll be emailing you at the @comcast or @verizon email address that they assume you're monitoring, because they gave you that email address when they became your ISP.
They aren't going to assume that you've been using the same email address for decades, long before you signed up for their broadband, and that's the email address you monitor.
I can see it now, they shut you off claiming you haven't responded to any of their emails -- meanwhile you're unaware that a mailbox you've never checked in your life is where those emails are....
I very likely have a Verizon mailbox, but damn if I know what it is. Or how to access it. My email comes to me through a mom&pop ISP where I have my webserver, not through my broadband provider.
And I'm sure I'm not alone in this -- how many people have a Yahoo, Hotmail or Gmail account as their primary email address?
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I do not see it in this artical, but from previous articles on this subject it made it sound like this process if different and instead of a email being sent you would get a browser pop up that would tell you the site you are going to, or the file being downloaded is copyrighted and illegal to download. Not sure how that would work for things like torrents, but I would asume you would get a notice when you go to the site that lists the torrent to download.
Re:And how are these 'warnings' sent? (Score:4, Informative)
From this link http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/07/ispplan.pdf
Subsequent alerts may include notifications in the form of pop-ups or redirection
to a special page displaying the alert. Failure to respond to these alerts will lead
to additional steps designed to ensure that the account comes into compliance.
These steps, referred to as “Mitigation Measures,” might include, for example:
temporary reductions of Internet speeds, redirection to a landing page until the
subscriber contacts the ISP to discuss the matter or reviews and responds to some
educational information about copyright, or other measures that the ISP may
deem necessary to help resolve the matter. These steps will only be taken after
multiple alerts and a failure by the subscriber to respond. This system consists of
at least five alerts.
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From this link http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/07/ispplan.pdf [wired.com]
Subsequent alerts may include notifications in the form of pop-ups or redirection
to a special page displaying the alert. Failure to respond to these alerts will lead
to additional steps designed to ensure that the account comes into compliance.
These steps, referred to as “Mitigation Measures,” might include, for example:
temporary reductions of Internet speeds, redirection to a landing page until the
subscriber contacts the ISP to discuss the matter or reviews and responds to some
educational information about copyright, or other measures that the ISP may
deem necessary to help resolve the matter. These steps will only be taken after
multiple alerts and a failure by the subscriber to respond. This system consists of
at least five alerts.
I don't see how that's going to work at all. Wouldn't most modern browsers block popups, especially those not at all affiliated with the target site? Wouldn't most third-party DNS providers warn you of a redirection as some kind of hostile activity? Wouldn't a NoScript (or similar) browser also defeat some/all of these "notification" methods?
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I don't see how that's going to work at all. Wouldn't most modern browsers block popups, especially those not at all affiliated with the target site? Wouldn't most third-party DNS providers warn you of a redirection as some kind of hostile activity? Wouldn't a NoScript (or similar) browser also defeat some/all of these "notification" methods?
Worst case they could simply /dev/null everything but plain HTTP and redirect that to a "please contact us" page that you have to click through to get your connection back, not unlike how many wifi services makes you sign in / agree to a ToS before letting you proceed. I've never heard of anyone using that on a regular broadband connection before though, but should be fairly straightforward. Hmm, I wonder if this could be patentable - I'd love to throw a little monkey wrench in that system.
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reviews and responds to some educational information about copyright,
"Relax" said the night man, "We are programmed to receive" ...You can check out any time you like, but you can NEVER leave!
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Yep. If my ISP wants to contact me, they've got my mailing address and phone number. If they don't use one of those two, it can't be that important.
Guardians of the Internets (Score:2)
Bluffing (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they seriously going to monitor every single FTP transaction or every Torrent swarm that passes through their infrastructure? Many people just go in, leech, and get out of the swarm as soon as they have all the pieces which leaves only a small window of time to catch them.
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No, the ISPs are just going to send out "strikes" to whoever the RIAA/MPAA tells them to.
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No, your ISP is not going to monitor anything. But you know all these IP addresses the MAFIAA has been collecting? Well now instead of threatening with harmless C&D letters or trying to sue 10,000 people at once through the courts those will now go as "strikes" directly from the MAFIAA to your ISP. Get enough strikes and you will be harassed and in worst case disconnected by your ISP. They haven't hired on the ISPs to spy on you, but as their private vigilante justice system. Instead of having to deal w
Enforcement (Score:2)
I will certainly be wardrivetorrenting when this drops.
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What Kind of People Do They Think Pirate? (Score:2)
The only people I know of that would enjoy this are usually called, "Cutters."
Downloading? (Score:2)
Why does every article say they're going to get you for "downloading" copyrighted material. Since when can they get you in the US for downloading copyrighted material? I thought the only issue was with distributing/seeding it.
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How will this work? (Score:4, Insightful)
How can any ISP determine whether or not I have received the rights to any given copyrighted item? What if the items I am downloading are fair use productions using copyrighted material? Nobody really knows what fair use is and is not (it is very subjective), how can you write an algorithm to detect it? I just don't understand how this is technologically possible.
Courts have already ruled that you can sue for DMCA requests that don't consider fair use. It doesn't seem a stretch to apply that to "strikes" as well (and strikes are probably easier to demonstrate harm). The ISP's are going to have to tread very carefully to avoid class action lawsuits.
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My ISP, Comcast, does have a no class action clause, but the courts invalidated the clause in 2007 and a class action lawsuit was allowed to proceed against them.
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Upon further consideration, after the 2011 Supreme Court ruling, this provision may have more teeth. Either way, it is still a gamble for the companies and it seems highly unlikely any ISP or content provider would win in court with no system in place to review fair use.
Cox (Score:3)
"...if you download copyrighted material." (Score:3)
So that limits us to Project Gutenberg. Everything else is "copyrighted", and every time you "visit" A Web site you "download material".
Private Regulation Without Accountability (Score:2)
CCI being the product of an agreement between the media cartels and major ISPs, under pressure from the Obama Administration (otherwise, why would ISPs agree to a plan that could cost them a bunch of customers). Unlike regulatory bodies established through real legislation, CCI is answerable to neither the courts nor the public. Even if the rules were "consumer friendly" today, who's to
By loose definition, we all break that daily... (Score:2)
Those company symbols? That exist on corporate web sites that they say no duplication?
Well, our browser caches duplicate that, hell, even going to the site duplicates it upon your screen. How many people print pages of their web sites for reasons?
So everyone, unplug your internet. Once this thing passes, just going to a web site will break copyright law, by loose definition.
Someone needs to set fire to the RIAA and MPAA buildings.
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> Once this thing passes...
"Passes"? Do you labor under the delusion that this is legislation? It's just a private, voluntary agreement among some businesses.
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And you don't think the RIAA and MPAA will be using this to get around the legislation that judged that IPs are not indicative of people?
I meant exactly as I said it.
Yikes! (Score:2, Insightful)
will allow your ISP to give you gradually sterner warnings and possible punishment if you download copyrighted material
Yikes, that's awful.
Or maybe the submitter meant to say "copyright-infringing material".
GPL-licensed material is copyrighted. In fact, copyright is the mechanism used to enforce the provisions of the GPL license.
right to trial (Score:2)
why can't I have a right to confront my accusers in a court of law before sentencing occurs?
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Six Strikes
There comes a time when baseball analogies cease to make sense.
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Well, if you're on the Boston Red Sox, you get 5 strikes [beyondtheboxscore.com]. That's close.
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What if I have two strikes and then just keep fouling the ball? Does that mean you can just keep downloading pirated material?
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If we play this right, we can get their pitch count over 100 by the bottom of the third.
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Doesn't really matter when they manufacture information and misdirect almost as much as the other two. IMHO, You'll easily notice it if you don't live in USA.
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CNN is just incompetent, not partisan.
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Don't be silly. ALL the network news stations are state-corporatist propaganda.
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... will allow your ISP to give you gradually sterner warnings and possible punishment if you download copyrighted material.
I'd wonder if this applies to my downloading of /. a couple of times per day. After all, as we're notified at the bottom of the main page, all the comments here are copyrighted by the posters. I certainly don't have signed licenses from every commenter in this or any other thread giving me permission to download their copyrighted material. So presumably I'm in violation of all sorts of copyright laws every time I download a discussion page here.
The obvious weaselly attempt to downplay this would be b
"sites that don't want me to download anything" (Score:2)
Naw, you have it right - every not counting weasely TOS tricks, every post on the internet and *every graphic file* are copyrighted. So it really is a scary double standard that is going to get very dangerous very quick when someone with a big pocket makes precisely the point that you do and audits the **AA to find them in violation of the copyright on "small works" (such as these forum posts.)