DEA Wants To Install License Plate Scanners and Retain Data for Two Years 295
An anonymous reader writes with news that might make privacy advocates a bit uneasy. From the article: "Everyone driving on Interstate 15 in southwest Utah may soon have their license plate scanned by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The DEA and two sheriffs are asking permission to install stationary license plate scanners on the freeway in Beaver and Washington counties. The primary purpose would be to catch or build cases against drug traffickers, but at a Utah Legislature committee meeting Wednesday, the sheriffs and a DEA representative described how the scanners also could be used to catch kidnappers and violent criminals. That, however, wasn't the concern of skeptical legislators on the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Interim Committee. They were worried about the DEA storing the data for two years and who would be able to access it."
Scary (Score:5, Interesting)
First they store it for 2 years.. which is terrifying enough.. but we all know that will become 3 years.. then 4.. and before we know it, they'll be storying license plate scans for centuries.
At least future historians will have detailed records on who drove over Interstate 15 in southwest Utah in the 21's century. Of course they'll probably assume the plates represent our names or something..
Re:Scary (Score:5, Funny)
"I am not a free man, I am a number!"
--no, that can't be right...
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If a criminal had ANY clue they would swap plates at minimum, or go high tech and use a nice bright display that can change to whatever they want.
Scan and store license plates, Yeah this will only catch the idiot drug runners, or simply increase the amount of car thefts so they can borrow a car for a drug run.
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Not to worry though, since it's public knowledge about the plate scanners, I envision drug runners changing plates or occasionally using a different car.
As for aggregating useful data, they are going to find a lot of patterns. Commercial drivers, Buses, weekly delivery routes, service routes, People driving a long way to work every day. Police aren't picked for duty by having a high i.q. In fact every dept. I've ever heard of across the country avoids high i.q. as the hallmark of an independent thinker who
Re:Scary (Score:5, Funny)
If only the government had a listing of everyone's license plate. That would be scary!
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Yup. Exactly how it happened in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, we have these license plate scanners around all big cities. They were installed after politicians promised they would never store license plates that weren't linked to serious crimes. Just a few years later, ALL license plates are stored for a longer period.
And know what the good part is? Real criminals don't fear the camera's at all. Last week a report on this subject was published: http://goo.gl/W8OF8 [goo.gl] . The total of 230 camera's placed on jus
Re:Scary (Score:5, Insightful)
Sir Frog, you'll be boiling soon enough,.
Re:Scary (Score:5, Interesting)
"Papers, please! Pick up that can, citizen. You may not pass checkpoint until you pass government check!"
Amazing how many people are eager to throw themselves into the the arms of a totalitarian government. "No expectation of privacy" has morphed into "constant recording of activities".
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Funny how people will defend Google for taking publicly available information from unsecured wifi
"Hey, if I shout out my email conversations from my balcony, why should I be surprised if someone intercepts that information"
Is this different to someone standing at the side of an interstate and writing down the plates of everyone who drives by? Considering how people say that the government is in the pockets of the corporations, why do people give different rational when an issue of recording publicly availab
Re:Scary (Score:5, Interesting)
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Large-scale blackmail, extortion, fraud, vilification, incitement, etc., are all possibilities if the Goog were so inclined.
And a whistleblower would eventually notify a federal agency and they'd be busted. Google might do a lot of illegal things? Yes, scary. Scarier still: The government could use the information to identify the locations of the "undesirables" of a given decade, and efficiently do away with them. Depending on common traffic patterns, it could help identify "undesirables" themselves ("sir, 300 license plates have been identified as being in the five cities where recent 'Anonymous' protests occurred"). And b
Re:Scary (Score:4, Interesting)
When it is legal for me to remove my license plates, or to encrypt them with a key that changes hourly, then perhaps you have a point.
Re:Scary (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny how people will defend Google for taking publicly available information from unsecured wifi
Because Google is not the government. Despite what some people think about corporations and the government these days, Google does not have the ability to deprive you of your life or your freedom. The Government on the other hand can and does these days. Big difference.
Re:Scary (Score:5, Interesting)
Too bad I used my mod points yesterday. The responses to your post are all very good summaries of why your example misses the huge differences between the government and Google.
1) License plates are mandatory accessories on a car. There is no way for me to legally avoid this type of monitoring, unless I decide to walk. Compare that with Google: I can easily encrypt the signal, and carry on just as before.
2) It is the government. I am forced to do business with the government. I can choose to ignore Google. Yay Noscript!
3) The government enforces its terms at gun point. A dispute with Google involves at worst some fines.
4) Government is full of people who love to tell me what I should do. Google is merely interested in finding out what I'm doing.
So yes, Google=Fine, Government = Bad. Let me know if you still don't understand the differences between what the Government is and can do, and what Google is and can do.
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The recording of activities in public is barely worth mentioning next to the atrocity that is the War on Drug Users.
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Whereas in America, you could go wherever you want, and work for anyone who would pay you. That isn't going to change any time soon, don't let the scaremongers fool you
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Or another 4 years of Obama for that matter.
They see me trollin'...
+1 (Score:2)
Change of Scope (Score:2, Interesting)
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Sorry Utah! (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry Utah, but I think I will bypass your state from now on (if you allow this). All we need is more "Big Brother" surveillance of innocent people who may want to keep their whereabouts private, and for perfectly legitimate (and legal) reasons! Tracking plates on the US/Mexico border is only slightly less onerous, but hundreds of miles away from the immediate border area? That's simply frightful! FWIW, I was once the subject of a Mafia "contract". Needless to say, having my whereabouts known, and for no g
Cut to the chase (Score:5, Insightful)
How will this turn out? Let's see.
Eenie meenie, chili beanie...
1) DEA installs license plate scanners.
2) Police stop vehicles which fit the profile of drug smuggling.
3) Years pass. Many, many innocent people's rights are violated
4) Police find drugs in some stopped car, arrests are made.
5) Plaintiffs complain that police had no right to stop car based on profile
6) ACLU gets involved. Appeal goes to federal court.
7) Federal court overturns conviction on grounds that there was no probable cause (or not - this is Utah, after all)
8) Case is presented to supreme court. Supreme court upholds 4th amendment, license scanning is not probable cause.
End result: Many innocent people have their rights violated, some arrests are made. About a million dollars are spent on one case to bring it to the supreme court, ten years of some person's life is lost fighting it, and eventually the DEA is told to stop. During this time, drug smuggling is reduced by less than one part in a million. Millions of dollars spent on the system are wasted when the system is dismantled.
For once, can we please just cut to the chase? Just stop these idiots from the beginning and a whole lot of people will save a whole lot of effort, money, time, and grief.
Re:Cut to the chase (Score:5, Funny)
How will this turn out? Let's see.
End result: Many innocent people have their rights violated, some arrests are made. About a million dollars are spent on one case to bring it to the supreme court, ten years of some person's life is lost fighting it, and eventually the DEA is told to stop. During this time, drug smuggling is reduced by less than one part in a million. Millions of dollars spent on the system are wasted when the system is dismantled.
Spending a million dollars is worth it if it prevents just one child's life from being destroyed by a marijuana joint.
Re:Cut to the chase (Score:4, Insightful)
Spending a million dollars is worth it if it prevents just one child's life from being destroyed by a marijuana joint as long as that money is spent on my agency or company.
There, I fixed it for you.
Re:Cut to the chase (Score:5, Insightful)
For once, can we please just cut to the chase? Just stop these idiots from the beginning and a whole lot of people will save a whole lot of effort, money, time, and grief.
Yes, but then what would all those DEA people do for a living? Besides, the bureaucrats and private prison operators have budgets and contracts to protect. The "War on Drugs" is big business after all, and not just for the cartels. It would all be funny, in a farcical sort of way, if the real life consequences weren't so deadly serious.
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One thing people always forget is that such systems cost money to install and operate.
Today the DEA wants to use it against drug trafficking. But let's be realistic, they won't catch many (criminals are not idiots), but the system will continue to cost money. So they extend the goal to include other crimes as well. Perhaps even mistermeaners. All just to justify the costs. And to fight crime o/c.
This is basically the chicken-egg problem that will wind up costing a lot of money but only bring little actual v
Ballot Box, Soap Box, Ammo Box (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahh yes, the ardent American Citizen, sitting there able to do nothing while the value of his shitty little Dollar drops year after year, his bankers and his own Government are blatantly and openly lying and stealing from him and doing and end run around his precious Constitutional Rights with Wars on Ideas -- and he clings to his gun saying "I can at least defend myself from them if it gets to that" -- ignoring the fact that his Government has enough weaponry to quickly turn any Popular Revolt with their tiny pea shooters into a grease stain in short order -- and even then, every Congressional session has new talk of attempts to enact laws to outlaw or further restrict ownership of peashooters -- just be on the safe side, it is after all best not to take risks.
What will it take for the Ardent American to use his precious armaments? Government Cameras up his ass? Face it -- you are a slave. Go to school, pass your exams, indenture yourself to a College, get a job, be useful, be productive, consume and create more consumers to replace you.
Your rights, your guns, your "freedom" -- are little more than a novelty meant to humor you.
More wars on American Citizens have been enacted in the last 30 years than wars against enemy nations.
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My belief is that the value of the dollar has been dropped deliberately to help the US compete globally with regards to both manufacturing and services, what there is left of it. A strong dollar policy sounds good but it's not what the US needs at this point.
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You left out jury box [fija.org].
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Wolverines!
Enough already! (Score:5, Insightful)
Time to get rid of the DEA. They just keep thinking up new ways to pry into our lives with the intent of ensuring the purity of our bodily fluids.
Billions of taxpayers' dollars are spent on these yahoos every year and what do we get out of it. Money spent so they can set quotas on the production of medicines and now we have shortages of common medications for the treatment of pain, cancer, and mental disorders.
This has become very personal for me. Because of an injury from military service I get my pain medications from the VA clinic in town. Since it is a controlled substance the physician can only write a prescription for 30 days. The VA clinic has a nice system where I just go into the office and fill out a form so the physician can rubber stamp the prescription for the next month. I have it pretty good, relatively. I feel sorry for those that don't have their meds handed out by the government.
I can only imagine what someone else, someone that has to get the same meds by a private entity. Would they have to schedule a face to face examination with their physician every month? How much would that cost them? Would any insurance company cover the cost of providing a monthly supply of narcotics for a condition that existed prior to signing up for their plan?
I've heard all kinds of horror stories of people that happened to be caught with a pill bottle, or just a single pill, that a friend or relative had forgotten and was left in the person's car, bag, or apartment. Being in the possession of a controlled substance is a felony unless prescribed by a physician. Do we want people to get sent to prison for five years because they tried to return the medicine that grandma left behind when she went to see her grandkids?
FTFA:
"I'll be quite frank with you," Oda told Newcomb. "A lot of us in Utah don't trust the federal government."
I don't either. They claim they won't use this database for the purpose of enforcing misdemeanors and traffic violations. What keeps them from breaking this promise?
I can see this already, someone will get the great idea of placing two of these along a well traveled route. The computers controlling these two stations will be connected together to compute the average speed of anyone that crosses these two points. Automatic speeding tickets will get mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that would happen if these license plate scanners get installed.
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Exactly bro. You nailed it. The laws on the books have been way past the point of tyranny for years. Now they are tightening the screws down tighter and tighter, trying to extract (translation: rob at gunpoint) more and more money from the people to pay for their fucking mistakes. This shit is about to blow up in their faces, big time.
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Time to get rid of the DEA. They just keep thinking up new ways to pry into our lives with the intent of ensuring the purity of our bodily fluids.
Keep the DEA, decriminalize the drugs.
We'll still need the DEA to control perscription drugs, but that isn't what the traffickers are mostly interested in moving across borders.
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If we decriminalize the drugs then what exactly is the role of the DEA? I thought the regulation of prescription drugs was the FDA's job.
If there is no crime in access to what are now controlled substances then would not all these controlled substances become over the counter products? No more regulated than Tylenol?
I suppose one could argue that the drugs would still need a prescription but no longer be a controlled substance but I'm confused on how that would work. If there is no crime in providing the
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Sales of a prescription-only drug would still be illegal - pharmacies or any legal entity would still be barred from selling you morphine unless you have a prescription. However, simply having the drug in your possession, would be legal - so long as you don't try selling it to someone else.
What this effectively does is to decriminalize users of a drug, and anyone else who co
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Decriminalization doesn't solve the big problem, which is the violence and other assorted societal problems prohibition causes. All it does is make the drug users OK with the BAD law.
The only drugs that should be illegal is antibiotics. That is the only class of drugs that your taking directly affects me, by breeding superbugs.
If you want to screw up your own life, why should I care? There are plenty of perfectly legal ways to screw your life up.
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Maintaining huge criminal enterprises requires a lot more cash than can come from robbing people and houses. They can only exist where large black markets exist. The only markets they will move on to are other existing black markets. If you believe otherwise, there's not much point in conversing with you on the subject.
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The DEA is only a subset of 'the government', not in charge of it.
Think about how much real power 'the government' has over its branches. They might manage the bosses, but what goes on inside is not monitored by 'the government'.
And how often do you hear of branches doing stuff they should not? Do you honestly think it is always 'an order from them man himself'? Don't kid yourself.
Problem is, they are all in the same boat so they will be very cautious to beat themselves for any wrong doing.
If a branch gets
I've got a better idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Defund the DEA. People are going to get high. The only real questions are:
1. How much will it cost to treat the health problems that causes?
2. Who is going to get the money from selling the drugs?
With DEA in place, the answer to question (2) is that the DEA splits it with cartels and some small fish while raping the taxpayers. The health costs are born by everybody else. Tax the drugs, and the money will go to the government. Drugs (in the absence of health problems) become a profit center for the people instead of a cost center. Of course some drugs will cause health problems. The rational answer to that is to figure out how much it costs to treat them, and tax the drugs enough to pay for them. There might be some cases where the tax isn't enough to cover the health costs without re-creating the black market. I really don't know. Does the tax on alcohol, a perfectly legal substance, come anywhere near paying for the health problems it causes? What about the health problems it helps (yep, it's good in moderation). Some drugs will bring in more money than they cost in health problems (pot). Others will probably not bring in much money, but will cause serious health problems (meth). It ought to be possible to balance the cash cows against the losers. First things first though:
Defund the DEA, reduce the national debt, quit wasting time, money, and lives.
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Does the tax on alcohol, a perfectly legal substance, come anywhere near paying for the health problems it causes?
More than likely not even close (it would be monstrously difficult to actually quantify the cost), but the economic and societal cost of its continued illegality were crystal clear.
It's too bad the Supreme Court decided Congress can regulate items which don't impact interstate commerce because their lack of impact is an impact by its absence (they are masters at torturing logic).
The Constitution
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Why ask permission? (Score:2)
Sounds like the DEA's biggest mistake was asking for permission. They should just go ahead and authorize themselves to do the scanning and data retention, and then shove it down our throats for our own good.
What this looked like (Score:2)
Shows the driver face capture, plate capture, passenger face capture and network link on one small roadside camera setting.
I have the solution (Score:2)
Copyright the sequence of letters and numbers that comprise your license plate. Even better, make it a personalized license plate that demonstrates your creativity, and have the design officially recorded at the US Copyright Office. If you have the ability, develop an algorithm that you can fit on a license plate, and submit your application to the US Patent Office. Now set up a website where users pay a fee to see your license plate. Make it known to the world that you will be engaging in performance a
SO WHAT (Score:2)
New "law"? (Score:2)
Not unlike Godwin's Law about discussions degenerating until someone pulls the nazi card, a similar law exists about privacy-eroding proposals: Argue that in order to protect us against something really bad (terrorists, drug trafficking etc.) we need X, which incidentally also can help protect us against some almost as bad (kidnappers, violent criminals etc.), thus offering us a multi-pronged tool that can do almost everything against the badness out there. Scared people loves stuff like this.
But they forge
Useless (Score:3)
As if drug traffickers always use the same vehicles....
cycling (Score:2)
The compulsory bicycle helmet and glasses make also face-recognition impossible.
Cycling is also good for physical shape and moral. Even a criminal may think: "...wait a minute, I can move around for free, I have an excellent physical shape now, I am constantly in good mood, I eat less,
More drug war consequences (Score:2)
Don't travel abroad if License Plate Scanning ... (Score:2)
Move to New Hampshire (Score:2)
Highway surveillance is outright prohibited [state.nh.us] here.
the "primary" purpose (Score:2)
The primary purpose would be to catch or build cases against drug traffickers, but at a Utah Legislature committee meeting Wednesday, the sheriffs and a DEA representative described how the scanners also could be used to catch kidnappers and violent criminals.
How long will it be until they lower the freeway speed limit "for safety," place two scanners a few miles apart on the highway, use the data to calculate your average velocity, and then send you an automated speeding ticket?
Of course, the primary purpose of the system will be to catch drug traffickers and child molesters for your safety, but the state would like the secondary objective to be profit.
This reeks of a government scare tactic to increase state authority at the expense of citizen privacy. If law
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What (kinda) worries me is when they start doing more analysis.
I imagine the technology isn't too far off (if not already here) to analyse video of and determine bad driving. Join that up with license plate scanning and a system where you are automatically ticketed on making any driving violation.
It's an interesting concept. I don't know if I'd want that or not. On a logical level it makes sense, but something about it puts me off. Obviously fines and such would need to be adjusted, as current penalties ass
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
For me it's more... when you only had physical 'watchers', there was some amount of privacy via lack of manpower.
However, once it's electronic, there can really be no end to it, and there can be many installations. Then computers can then use the data to map out everything you do, something that couldn't be done in the past without the 'suspect' (victim?) noticing they were being tailed.
The other thing is once the system is up, the only difference between tracking suspects or parolees and everyone, is processing power.
Maybe it's a bit of a slippery slope fallacy. Seems to me if it's important enough, put a few agents out there and scan the plates manually. Might help the unemployment numbers too. It would probably end up being cheaper than whatever no bid contract they pay for the limited system would cost, and would keep it limited.
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In the Anime Ghost in the Shell and the Robocop movies, the cars have barcode license plates. Predictive programming? How long until this is a reality?
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I am all for this!
Because I know that SS will be nothing in a couple of decades and I'll never see it.
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The tv show seaquest had them as well. if you were caught speeding instead of paying a fine it was deducted from your social security.
I know you're just talking about a tv show, but that's one of the most horrible solutions I can think of. Just like student loans, a fine against your future self wouldn't feel like a punishment at all (to many people). Without social security, the elderly would turn to violent street crime and we'd have roving gangs of geriatric thugs.
As it is, with SS running out before our generation retires, the future is looking more like Mad Max, refilmed now with the original cast.
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Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
"...and it is on government property."
You meant PUBLIC property. Right?
RIGHT?
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In a similar fashion, "government funded" is "public funded".
"The government" has no money or anything else. It all belongs to those funding it.
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing you aren't seeing and that isn't explained in the article is why. They want to cross-reference vehicles that come through the area multiple times and don't live in the area. They will then use this in a probable cause warrant.
Think about that and what it means.
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:4, Interesting)
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No court in America would think that simply driving on a road was probable cause for a search without other details (drugs laying around in plain view, driver acting intoxicated, etc). I don't think this data will be used for that. I think it will simply be the camel's nose from the old saying "Once the camel's nose is in the tent, the rest of the camel will soon follow." Tomorrow the scanners go up on the interstate, next week they go up on local highways, next month they go up on all major roads. Only
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"John Doe, presidential candidate, was seen going to the bad part of town multiple times one week. Now, why would someone that lives in a fancy gated community want to go all the way down there late at night?"
And that's when making this information public will become illegal. Just like you need a warrant to check someone's Video rental record.
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a resident of Utah. The DEA has been talking about stuff like this literally since the technology came about. I'm not surprised they are trying to get the Legislature to authorize it, they just had to get a county to buy in on it. But I am surprised it took them this long to find a county willing. Frankly the counties do a LOT of seizures and probably make a tidy profit on it but these cameras are going to make the DEA more interested in letting people pass so they can track them later so that's probably why it took this long to get a county to buy in on the plan.
I-15 through Utah carries something like 60% of the drugs coming out of LA destined for the rest of the country. You might not be familiar with the geography but unless you are willing to drive on 300+ miles of dirt roads I-15 and I-10 are the only reasonable transit corridors out of LA to the rest of the country (unless you wanna drive from LA to Sacramento and come out on I-80). There just aren't that many roads across the Sierra's and as a result I-15 before it reaches I-70 becomes an ideal candidate for scanning and data collection. All you'd need is another camera in Arizona before it reaches Phoenix and you could cover almost 100% of the drug traffic out of southern California.
As I said, there's been articles every few months in the local papers talking about it for the last couple decades with a big focus on tracking repeat users of the highway the last few years. As soon as I saw the report it wasn't hard to put it together.
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I-15 through Utah carries something like 60% of the drugs coming out of LA destined for the rest of the country.
Who fucking cares? I mean, seriously. Why are we turning ourselves into (the bad parts) of the UK because people want to get high?
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Who fucking cares?
The bureaucrats whose budgets depend on it?
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The answer here is randomly pull over cars, if you find drugs, make the driver smoke all of it.
no matter the drug, he has to smoke ALL of it.
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The answer here is randomly pull over cars, if you find drugs, make the driver smoke all of it. No matter the drug, he has to smoke ALL of it.
I can see the headline now: Canadian Drug Runner's Genitals Explode When Forced to Smoke 1500 Kilos of Viagra.
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hmm. doesn't sound too ideal if it's the only place highway warriors(salesmen) will drive through too.
why not just start doing random house searches in cali - get the problem at it's source!
What is scanning plates going to change? (Score:2)
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They already know that the drugs are going by that road. They already stop people when they are suspect. What is scanning plates going to change, except violate peoples privacy and cost money? What is the cost-benefit analysis of this whole thing? If they don't publish that, it's either not researched and should never be allowed, or it's so bad that if it were to become public, nobody would want it to happen.
At the hearings that is one of the many points that was brought up. Basically the legislative committee saw there was no real benefit, it exposed huge privacy and long-term Big Brother concerns, etc. None of the legislators in the committee seemed likely to go for the plan.
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I-15 through Utah carries something like 60% of the drugs coming out of LA destined for the rest of the country. You might not be familiar with the geography but unless you are willing to drive on 300+ miles of dirt roads I-15 and I-10 are the only reasonable transit corridors out of LA to the rest of the country (unless you wanna drive from LA to Sacramento and come out on I-80). There just aren't that many roads across the Sierra's and as a result I-15 before it reaches I-70 becomes an ideal candidate for
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Then the traffickers will shift to New Mexico and Texas. These are smart businessmen with the proven ability to quickly shift with the landscape.
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
Step up when bad cops do bad things and maybe people will respect good cops more. Until then, you can continue to expect this sort of opinion of you profession in general.
Even if you're an otherwise good cop, unless you're willing to out bad cops you are the problem.
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
That will never happen. All cops are dirty. Because the honest cops that don't rat on the dirty ones or demand they are fired are dirty for not doing it.
What the chief wont listen to you? the press certainly will.
If you dont turn in your "brothers" then you are as dirty as they are. Thus all cops are dirty.
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You give them too much credit. Dirty cops aren't just dirty cops, they're criminals.
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It's a pretty public thing already, and it's government-issued so the only data being collected that they don't already have is my location, but again, any driver on the freeway can already see me.
Ignoring the storage issue, which is huge, your analogy to other drivers breaks down in that no other driver is able to view and process every single license plate on the road. It would be an unreasonable task for a human to look at the plate of every car that passes by and do anything meaningful with that information (like real-time searches of databases of plates) therefor using a camera and a computer to do it instead verges on, if not outright qualifies as, an unreasonable search.
If this is really impo
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I don't know...I don't think freedom of travel and freedom from unreasonable search is being violated, as you're not being barred from travelling and you're not being searched. And I don't necessarily believe the legality of something changes simply because technology can do what humans can't. That argument of scale is the same argument the RIAA makes to differentiate P2P technology and 80s tape-trading.
I mean, I'd prefer not to be scanned, but I just don't feel like my rights are being violated if it's kno
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And I don't necessarily believe the legality of something changes simply because technology can do what humans can't.
It does change when the original compromise - in this case license plates - was made in a context where such technology not only did not exist, it wasn't even conceivable at the time. Context is everything.
That argument of scale is the same argument the RIAA makes to differentiate P2P technology and 80s tape-trading.
That's tangent bait that I will take - the RIAA had just as much of a shit-fit about 80s tape trading as they have had about p2p. The context at the time was that taping was the worst possible thing for the music industry - just for starters they basically neutered DAT and they nearly got themselves a b
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The idea of unmanned law enforcement sounds great until you realize that everybody being under constant surveillance is not a very American way of life, at least not in the past. Freedom-while-being-watched-to-make-sure-you-do-the-right-thing-and-punish-you-if-you-don't is not true freedom.
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ED-209: "Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply."
[Alarmed, Kinney quickly tosses the gun away. ED-209 steps forward and growls menacingly.]
ED-209: "You now have 15 seconds to comply."
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Strat
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In Germany this already works - we have plate scanners to get fees for highway use. There is only very little law that prevents secret police (the one that is infiltrated by tea party like nazis it seems) from using this data and it seems that in factr they use it anyway. Drug laws in usofa are of course a good way to control population. it is funny that in a country of the free there is biggest prison population in the developed world. Are you really that free?
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:4, Insightful)
People see license plates all the time, but they don't normally stand there logging them for hours each day. There's lots of data where this sort of distinction matters.
For example, I'm a type 2 Diabetic. I voluntarily disclose this, and that I use a blood glucose meter and take Metformin for this condition. Now suppose somebody, perhaps working for my insurer, wants to check such data as what dates I refill my prescription, and what times of day I test, how regularly, and so on. There's several potential problems here. First, if my insurer wants to claim that I have been getting refills irregularly, it's in their interest if there's a law keeping me from stockpiling my medications, because that might be an alternate explanation for why I might go more than 1 month between refilling a 30 day supply.. Sure enough, there are an increasing number of drugs which don't have any known abuse potential, but that the prescriptions can only be filled for 1 month at a time, by law. The Insurers are not just interested in writing their rules so they don't pay out for multiple months at a time, but getting states to actually pass laws, which suggests to some of us that they really are trying to track such data in hopes of denying more claims. Then the test strips and lancets themselves are available in at least most states without a prescription. Again, there's no real abuse potential there, but again, there have been insurance lobbyists advocating making these items prescription only.
This sort of data is routinely observed by at least one other person (the clerk) any time I buy these medications. There are other people, such as my doctor and the pharmacy staff who may sometimes ask me if I'm testing regularly or remind me about proper use of the test kit and meds. But the insurer isn't just some party that presumably has my interests at heart in the general sense, they are an entity which might want to deny a claim if my disease gets worse, by claiming that it's my own fault for not following all the instructions adequately. The insurers are also people who have already lobbied for laws which would make my life a little more difficult. (For example, if I have to get a prescription for test strips and lancets, then I have to contact my doctor if my meter breaks and tell him what type I buy as a replacement before I can start using it.). So, the individual data is not kept particularly private. I'd let my doctor or pharmacist see the meter and page through the log stored on its SD card pretty much on request, and if I have the insurer pay for my meds, they presumably can see what dates I've filled the prescriptions and could track them easily. Yet, there's still problems with the access they already have, and piecing together that data gives them the power to do some things that can be a real pain.Piecing together more data is likely to open up new areas for abuse.
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People see license plates all the time, but they don't normally stand there logging them for hours each day.
There are some people who make the geeks in moms basement seem normal by comparison [stobartsaddos.com]
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They claim these will capture "only the license plate, the GPS coordinates and the direction of travel". With no timestamp, how do they intend to know which records are more than two years old? You know they're logging the time there too.
It's one northbound and one southbound camera at the moment, but add "just" another one and they'll have your location twice and how long you took to cover the distance. Then some bright spark will work out that they can calculate your average speed and - PROFIT!!! Isn't sc
Re:Scanning versus storage (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a little concerned about the scanning. I am fine with it if they consider it important enough to station cops to read the numbers off, but I don't want to make it so easy it becomes ubiquitous. The difficulty is more or less an intrinsic test of genuine need.
Along with the legally recognized expectation of privacy, we have a less recognized expectation of disinterest. Walking down the sidewalk in NY, I have no expectation of privacy, but I do have an expectation of disinterest. That is, I can expect that nobody who sees me really cares and they won't likely remember in 5 minutes..
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With enough of these cameras, they could do average speed ticketing fairly easily. E.g. you get from point A to point B that's 20 miles away in 10 minutes...
Re:Mormons Politicizing Religious Goals (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mormons Politicizing Religious Goals (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
> "America is controlled by Mormons"
No, silly! Everyone knows that America is controlled by corporations.
And LDS is one of the biggest [exmormon.org]
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No "walking" to court years later.
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As opposed to what exactly? Trying to make us LIKE other malware scam sites?