Nokia Sues HTC, RIM and Viewsonic 146
angry tapir writes "Nokia has filed claims in the U.S. and Germany saying that products from HTC, Research In Motion (RIM) and ViewSonic infringe a number of the company's patents. Nokia has filed actions against all three companies in Mannheim's and Munich's respective regional courts. Nokia has also filed complaints against HTC before the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), the Federal District Court of Delaware and the regional court in Düsseldorf. RIM will also have to dispatch its lawyers to Düsseldorf for a Nokia lawsuit filed there, while ViewSonic's legal team have to defend the company against a suit in Delaware."
This is getting out of control... (Score:3)
...not only that, the business of companies taking each other to court over patents is becoming the norm and as such, increasingly stale (as news)...in my opinion.
Re:This is getting out of control... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Strangely, or not so strangely, law firms have greatly reduced staffs in the last few years.
Re:This is getting out of control... (Score:5, Interesting)
... the business of companies taking each other to court over patents is becoming the norm ...
As I've said in one of my previous comments --- this patent litigation thing is a boon to the legal community, and it has made a lot of lawyers very very rich.
These very very wealthy lawyers will see to it that the broken patent system stays broken, and they will do everything to encourage corporations to sue each others to crisp over patents/copyrights --- and all the while they (the lawyers) are raking in truckloads and truckloads of moolah
Maybe we can learn from an Ancient Chinese legend ---
An egret tried to eat a big clam and that clam clammed up the beak of the egret in return.
As both were fighting each others a fisherman bagged both the egret and the big clam as the result.
Re:This is getting out of control... (Score:5, Interesting)
I saw a woodcutting that summed it up nicely. It showed two farmers fighting over a cow while a lawyer was milking it.
Re:This is getting out of control... (Score:5, Informative)
I found it, or at least a similar picture:
http://facstaff.elon.edu/efink/images/lawsuit.jpg [elon.edu]
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That's it. Thank you.
nokia may have a case (Score:3, Interesting)
Nokia is an old time innnovator and a big player in the industry. No way can they be called a patent troll. Conversely HTC, viewsonic have a bussiness model of fast followers and copying, respectively. Viewsonic is not an innovator just a cheapenator. they rarely even make their own stuff. HTC simply adds fashion to existing tech. I can't really say much about rimm. They definitely innovated in the field but they are desperately trying to catch up hardware wise. So it depends what the patents are.
I
Re:nokia may have a case (Score:4, Informative)
HTC adding fashion onto existing tech? Really? I'm no fan of Windows Mobile as well, but HTC created the first Windows powered smartphone right at the beginnings of the smartphone industry.
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what htc worked previously was de facto ms bitch, they took reference implementations and sold them on somebody elses risk(a dozen or so brands of winmo's were just htc's). sure they were maybe involved in some research too whilst doing that and ms probably gave them money one way or another back in the day to keep them - and win mo - alive.
I'm puzzled about the "adding fashion" part though ! like, w-t-f-what !?
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Finally this is obviously not an attempt to black mail these companies.
Yes it is.
It's also the reason the MS shills are so desperately trying to ridicule anyone who suggests Apple, Microsoft Nokia and Oracle are in bed together.
"Before he died, Steve Jobs said 'I'm going to destroy Android'."
"The fact that both Microsoft and Apple desire to destroy the Android market; and the other facts listed above; lead one believe that Microsoft and Apple truly are partners and, as such, could be looked upon, for purposes of anti-trust challenges, as a single monopolistic entity,"
http://voices.yahoo.com/is-microsoft-trying-kill-android-software-11018092.html [yahoo.com] for those of us who've been around for a while, this might seem familiar.
In the mid '90s, Bill gates stated:
“Netscape’s strategy is to make Windows and the Apple Macintosh OS all but irrelevant by building the browser into a full-featured OS with information browsing. Over time Netscape will add memory management, file systems, security, scheduling, graphics and everything else in Windows that applications require. Netscape hopes that its browser will become a de facto platform for software development, ultimately replacing Windows as the mainstream set of software standards.”
His response (amongst others Microsoft was prosecuted for) was to collude with Apple to ensure Internet Explorer was the default browser on Macs.
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>It's also the reason the MS shills are so desperately trying to ridicule anyone who suggests Apple, Microsoft Nokia and Oracle are in bed together.
Yes but we have Google shills like you to defend against the MS shills though!
>The fact that both Microsoft and Apple desire to destroy the Android market; and the other facts listed above; lead one believe that Microsoft and Apple truly are partners and, as such, could be looked upon, for purposes of anti-trust challenges, as a single monopolistic entity,
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Yes but we have Google shills like you to defend against the MS shills though!
Nice smear, but I'm more of a freetard than a shill.
Nonsense, Microsoft and Apple together have nothing close to a monopoly in the mobile OS market.
And they didn't have a monopoly on the web browser market either. That didn't stop them colluding to create the IE6 decade.
Re:nokia may have a case (Score:5, Insightful)
Once-innovative companies that have passed their peak always seem to go down in a blaze of shrill patent lawsuit "glory". They deserve to be called patent trolls when they switch business models like that.
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Kodak, don't forget Kodak.
I absolutely think Apple has passed its peak.
There's no question Motorola has passed its peak. They sold of most of their real business to Google.
Samsung has for the most part (the part I know about) countersued after being sued themselves.
Companies like Google, Facebook, and many of the better phone makers don't appear to have jumped on the opportunistic lawsuit bandwagon.
Cheapenators are great! (Score:3)
Assuming you're a believer in capitalism and free markets, you should be thrilled to encourage and protect "cheapenators" the world over. God bless them. They're the reason the system works. The more the merrier!
What we have these days, unfortunately, are a bunch of lazy communists who think that their business should get special protections instead of having to compete, which is just so hard for the poor widdle baby CEOs. Their mommy told them they were entitled to fat profit margins on their work ("innova
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They do also make cheap monitors but ViewSonic seems to be a leader and first to bring a lot of technology. No
Re:This is getting out of control... (Score:4, Funny)
companies taking each other to court over patents is becoming the norm
email and phone are so yesterday. all "now" tech companies will start communicating with each other via litigation lawyers.
how times change
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This is step one in starting a new business these days. Before you have an office, before you have a name, before you have a logo, before you have a business plan . . . you sue somebody.
It's like boxing. You need to come out of the corner swinging, or you will get sucker punched while trying to tap gloves. You need an "Offensive Patent Strategy" these days to survive.
MS (Score:1)
Something to supplement Nokia's coffers after Elop's non-starter with Windows Phone, eh?
Does anyone have a global map of this? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't keep track of all these lawsuits anymore. I just keep picturing an image of the globe with thousands of missile tracks as the world's tech companies try to obliterate each other with patents.
Re:Does anyone have a global map of this? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.mobilespoon.net/2011/08/mobile-rumble-let-get-ready-to.html [mobilespoon.net]
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And a link for the original: http://bl.ocks.org/1153292 [ocks.org]
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The visualization from Taco linked to above could be perfected with a feed from RSS or some easily updated CSV (not that the current code is remotely difficult to modify). Then the nodes need to be placed geographically correct with graphics from Wargames (the true 1983 Wargames that is).
Confirmation (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know what has gone on behind the scenes to get Microsoft and Apple to luv each other, but it seems like there is no rational reason for Nokia to leave Apple out of the fun except that they have been commanded to do so by Microsoft.
So Apple & Microsoft, what is your plan for the post-Android world you are trying to create?
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>I see this as good evidence that Nokia is completely controlled by Microsoft.
Ya think?
This is like SCO vs. World+Dog complete with failing company that's drowning itself in a 5 gallon pail at the direction of (mis) management. Except this time around, the backing of Microsoft is more blatant. They are no longer under Sherman Antitrust supervision. They have carte blanche to do what they want until someone says stop.
http://i.imgur.com/f2yqU.jpg [imgur.com]
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BMO
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Looking at your posts, I think you get checked for this disease.
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/25/1757253/linus-calls-microsoft-hatred-a-disease [slashdot.org]
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And my picture omits everything from December to the present day, in which Elop has done nothing to drag NOK out of the sewer. Let's see what has happened since January 1.
http://i.imgur.com/PgNFG.png [imgur.com]
Source: Yahoo Finance NOK
Go cry more
Fact: NOK is circling the drain and Elop thinks that suing companies will stem the flow of this river of red ink. Sorry, but lawsuits take more time than actual innovation and even then, they do not take care of the core problems with a company. Nokia is a dead company walk
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NOK is dead
MS and Apple will prop them up as long as they're needed.
The MS/Apple collusion was allowed to obtain Nortel patents based on a FRAND agreement. Nokia was the axis partner intentionally excluded from the consortium to give them the freedom to do the patent trolling. Microsoft has a long history of using proxies this way, especially companies with nothing left to lose.
You've got up and down mixed up (Score:4, Interesting)
It was only a week or two ago when it was announced that Nokia are no longer the number one seller of handsets on earth. It's going down at an accelerating rate and not up.
Nokia is very much alive (notice the bit above where I mentioned it was the number one seller of handsets) despite a lot of internal effort to kill it. The core problem is currently Elop, there are other problems but he's putting in no effort to fix them and busy getting rid of anyone that can. Even then it will take a long time to kill Nokia even if it's a deliberate effort.
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>but he's putting in no effort to fix them and busy getting rid of anyone that can
What a fairy tale, Elop inherited a big mess. More details here http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_24/b4232056703101.htm [businessweek.com]
So number one in sales was a "disaster"? (Score:2)
I've heard the "failure" speech several times - once from a loser that later went on to set things up so that Auckla
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Well that is true but that volume is now selling the cheapest phones to the poorest persons who are just now getting their first cell phone. It's a long time since Apple passed them for most revenue, the average sale is tiny and the margin even smaller. Secondly the world is still in a growth boom with ~600M new subscribers each year but that only has a few years left to go until the whole world is saturated, at which point people only need replacements and that market will drop considerably. Even with Elop
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You suggest that Elop is intentionally driving Nokia to the ground.
It may sound like a concpiracy theory, but I agree and go even further: Elop is grooming Nokia for a Microsoft buyout.
There is still a way for Nokia to go down before that is feasible, my guess is another 18 months.
Re:Confirmation (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe, but posting misguiding rage comics and lame graphics which omit the big picture does not make a good discussion.
For example, AAPL went from $34 when Jobs took over in 1998 to 14 in 2003 under him as CEO. Did that Jobs was a sucky CEO and should have been fired in 2003 based on a rage comic on it's stock by a immature lame, armchair joker analyst like you who knows nothing about companies except to look up the stock price on Yahoo Finance? Turnarounds take time, Nokia had it's head under the sand till he took over. More details here http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_24/b4232056703101.htm [businessweek.com]
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>Nokia had it's head under the sand till he took over.
Elop has done nothing to change this. All he did was throw the employees over the side of his metaphorical burning oil platform.
That's not leadership. That's being an asshole.
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BMO
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Hello clueless.
no need to be rude, especially when you're on such shaky ground yourself.
This is from 2010:
"On Thursday, June 30th, Microsoft, in collusion with Apple, Nokia and RIM bought Nortel's 6000 patents spanning Mobile and Wireless technologies for $4.5 Billion, beating Google, who began the bid in April with $900 million. While in the smelling distance of the booty, they started threatening every handset manufacturer in sight for licensing Android patents, asking for as much as $15 per phone, while simultaneously offering indemnity from patent lawsuits for Windows Mobile based phones."
The DoJ ok'd the sale in questionable circumstanes, despite clear doubts about the process. No doubt Microsoft learned from its earlier experiences:
"Dear Ms. Varney:
The American Antitrust Institute urges the Department (a) to commence an in-depth investigation of the proposed purchase of Nortel’s portfolio of more than 6,000 patents and patent applications, many of which may be vital to the future of mobile communications and computing devices, to Rockstar Bidco LP, a consortium consisting of Apple, Microsoft, Research in Motion, EMC, Sony and Ericsson...
We are respectfully troubled by the Department’s Early Termination of the HSR waiting period on this transaction two weeks ago, in sharp contrast to the Department’s announcement this past April of its intervention into the proposed purchase of Novell’s portfolio of approximately 882 patents and patent applications, many relating to mobile communications and computing devices, to CPTN Holding LLC, a consortium consisting of Apple, Microsoft, EMC and Oracle,
http://www.antitrustinstitute.org/sites/default/files/Nortel%20letter%20to%20DOJ.7.6.11.pdf [antitrustinstitute.org]
So there is no doubt at all that Microsoft, Apple and Nokia are colluding to kill Android. The only real question is what it cost them to get the US DoJ to allow it.
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The OP said this:
I don't know what has gone on behind the scenes to get Microsoft and Apple to luv each other, but it seems like there is no rational reason for Nokia to leave Apple out of the fun except that they have been commanded to do so by Microsoft.
Which is total bull which I called out, because Nokia sued Apple and settled for a large sum + on going payments.
> The only real question is what it cost them to get the US DoJ to allow it.
Nice to see your selective quoting. See DoJ's rationale below:
"During the course of the division's investigation, several of the principal competitors, including Google, Apple and Microsoft, made commitments concerning their SEP licensing policies. The division's concerns about the potential anticompetitive use of SEPs was lessened by the clear commitments by Apple and Microsoft to license SEPs on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms, as well as their commitments not to seek injunctions in disputes involving SEPs. Google's commitments were more ambiguous and do not provide the same direct confirmation of its SEP licensing policies.
"In light of the importance of this industry to consumers and the complex issues raised by the intersection of the intellectual property rights and antitrust law at issue here, as well as uncertainty as to the exercise of the acquired rights, the division continues to monitor the use of SEPs in the wireless device industry, particularly in the smartphone and computer tablet markets. The division will not hesitate to take appropriate enforcement action to stop any anticompetitive use of SEP rights."
In other words, they got a binding commitment out of them not to use standards essential patents on non FRAND terms, something that Google has repeatedly failed to promise.
> The only real question is what it cost them to get the US DoJ to
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In other words, they got a binding commitment out of them not to use standards essential patents on non FRAND terms
FRAND as in $15/handset? That's as much as Microsoft charges manufacturers for it's whole OS! Anyway, Microsoft has no need to wield the patents themselves. They'll use a third party, most likely Nokia. Pretty much exactly as they tried to do with the SGI patents.
No, the real question is why do you repetitively make anti MS troll comments here on Slashdot?
Why would that be the real question? I'm nobody important.
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Are you trolling, or just stupid?
Apple has paid Nokia a hefty sum in addition to ongoing royalties to settle the patent case out of court.
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Are you trolling, or just stupid?
Maybe both.
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Criticize as in make stupid statements that MS is colluding with Apple and stopped Nokia from suing it? That's not criticism, that's just plain wrong and lame at best.
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but it seems like there is no rational reason for Nokia to leave Apple out of the fun
You typically sue people who most likely will loose or settle first, then go after big boys after a precedent has been set. You especially sue bigger losers than yourself if your company is going down the toilet because you bet the farm on WP7, and now that bet looks like it is coming to bite you in the ass like a tick at a blood bank.
HTC is down from the last go round with Apple, good chance they'll settle. RIM, really is anyone not suing RIM? I'm completely blank on ViewSonic.
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Nokia already sued Apple [engadget.com], dumbshit.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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... MSFT and Apple can royally fuck Google, and that is content.
They question is: how are they going to get my attention for their content when I'm watching Youtube or stalking people on Facebook?
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If there were no Apple, Microsoft would have to create one. If they destroy it, same.
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Not Apple?
You mean the company that has settled ages ago and paid Nokia 600 million in license fees last quarter? That Apple?
Sweet deal for Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft cannot sue Android makers directly, because they all already paying Microsoft for the bogo patents. But since MS essentially owns Nokia, Microsoft gets to double dip.
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>You know, with all the money Apple and Microsoft are losing in these patent fights,
Citation needed.
According to most accounts, they're making a ton of money and shareholder value on the patents licensing.
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bring out the popcorn (Score:1)
Before you know it there wont be any cell phones in all of Europe. When Europeans have to switch to landlines you can bet something will give.
That or the companies will form consortorums because it helps all interests. This is how the industry use to do things and even the mobfia has them. Al Carpone even said its not worth it to be dead if we all just want to make money. Its best to not go to war.
Viewsonic (Score:1)
I can understand HTC and RIM... but all Viewsonic has is an Android tablet that does not have 3G.
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if apple and rim got together, maybe they could market a new phone with such name. sex sells after all
Well... (Score:3)
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Why so much hatred? (Score:2)
While I get that people on here don't generally like these litigation stories, I'm genuinely surprised to see the level of some of the Nokia hatred on display here (I'm not referring ti the parent post in particular, just commenting on the thread as a whole). I dunno, maybe it's because Slashdot's a US site, and (at least in a broad sense), Nokia never really understood the US market, & the US market never really understood Nokia?
The really sad thing here is that they could have indeed competed. Nokia h
The stages of life. (Score:5, Insightful)
Imitate
Innovate
Litigate
Disintegrate
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FYI I totally crapped this out in about fifteen seconds. Please feel free to continue with my poem or change it. It certainly seems applicable though.
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I guess I forgot about Initiate. How could I have missed that?
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Without the original innovation, what is there to imitate?
Someone else's innovation, of course.
Company A has an innovation. ...but here comes Company C.
Company B imitates it, allowing Company B to catch up, since imitating is easier than innovating.
Company B starts making further innovations on the original design, "standing on the shoulders of giants" and all that.
Company A, desperate, turns to litigation to hold Company B down.
That eventually fails, and Company A disintegrates, leaving Company B as the market leader and innovator
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arguably there has not been all that much innovation in the tech world except size and storage, your innovation was new in the late 70's
IMITATE:
"Now documents filed by Apple in a court case show the US firm acknowledges him as the father of the iPod.
The computer giant even flew Mr Kramer to its Californian headquarters to give evidence in its defence during a legal wrangle with another firm, Burst.com, which claimed it held patents to technology in the iPod and deserved a cut of Apple’s £89bill
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What a coincidence! (Score:2)
Nokia will soon be gone. (Score:1)
The company is substituting aggression under the law for
competency in the marketplace.
This serves no one but the lawyers involved.
And it is some pathetic shit.
Embrace death, you sorry Nokia fucktards. It will embrace you.
The last spasms of a dying company (Score:3)
SUE EVERYONE!
Nokia admits market failure, turns to courts. (Score:3)
patent troll (Score:2)
Huge expensive quagmire (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the results of Apple's attempt to win in the courts rather than the marketplace.
When Steve Jobs said he would "go nuclear" to stop other companies from making tablet computers, he failed to understand every other corporation out there is also armed.
That's why sometimes it's so difficult for me to believe Steve Jobs had anything more than a hipster's level understanding of Buddhism. This stuff is beginner's level Karma knowledge- you reap what you sow.
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that or he knew he was going to die soon, and just felt like causing MAD so we could all see what would happen.. in the end it wouldn't hurt him any.
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and add to his list causing a patent war in his wake and still nothing will change for him
This is Stephen Elop, I'll be your pilot today... (Score:3)
As of this moment, we are cruising at an altitude of $3.50 as you can see by the NYSE price.
I have been instructed by the parent carrier to initiate a controlled flight into terrain so that it can pick up the pieces and glue them onto itself. You, the investors, are expendable.
Please enjoy your brief flight on MicroNokia Airways.
You are free to move about the cabin.
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BMO
Re:This is Stephen Elop, I'll be your pilot today. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hah, I think there's a better airplane analogy: the pilot is trying to control a stalled airplane, while ignorant onlookers are judging his skill by what altitude and the rate of descent the plane has at the moment.
See, just before the wings stalled, the airplane was gaining altitude. People ignorant about flight dynamics may think this means everything was going OK, but the engine thrust was set too low for that angle of attack and the plane was dangerously losing speed. When the stall warning sounded in the cockpit, the captain woke up from his nap and took control from the dumbass co-pilot, but too late: the plane started to plunge uncontrollably. The captain promptly put the stick down (see, he's trying to kill everyone on board!) and increased engine thrust. In the recent minute, the plane has lost another 1000 feet of altitude and still descends; the recovery is uncertain. And it's all captain's fault, because the fall happened while he was in control!
The thing about financial analysts is, they know jack shit about any specific market, especially so in technologically-intensive areas, so all they are left with to make their crystal ball projections are pure financial data. These tell nothing about where things are going, whether the company is gaining or losing mindshare among consumers and developers. In 1997, the financial press spelled doom for Apple and their stock was tumbling below $3.
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>God, these lame armchair analyst zealots get on my nerves.
We all know what's happening.
Elop is sabotaging the company, he and the board will get golden parachutes, and get hired by Microsoft, and the remains of the company will be acquired by Microsoft.
It's been plain ever since Microsoft "bought without buying" Nokia by having Elop installed as Cuckoo CEO.
Deal with it.
Go be butthurt somewhere else.
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BMO
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>Okay, so tell me how Microsoft got Elop installed as the Nokia CEO
Microsoft promised a pile of cash and handed it over after he got hired.
Or are you totally ignorant of the history regarding this?
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BMO
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You know what, I'm going to drop this here, because google is --->over there.
Google "microsoft pays nokia 1 billion"
Pick any of the news stories.
You're an ass /and/ a shill.
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BMO
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My time on the internet taught me to interpret "google this" as "I have nothing to back up my claims, but I still want to sound authoritative".
What actually happened is, the board decided to oust Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and install Stephen Elop, because things were going to hell fast. If he is Microsoft's trojan horse as the conspiracy theorists here like to assert, the board should be blamed for not seeing this. But something tells me that they have better grip on the company's prospects than a legion of Slas
War's over, man. S&P dropped the big one. (Score:2)
Grip? They couldn't grip their own asses if you gave them a diagram.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/28/us-nokia-idUSBRE83Q0W620120428 [reuters.com]
War's over, man. S&P dropped the big one (Score:2)
Grip? They couldn't grip their own asses if you gave them a diagram.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/28/us-nokia-idUSBRE83Q0W620120428 [reuters.com]
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S&P and others have finally realized the size of the hole that Nokia has dug itself into over the last 5 years. If they knew shit about mobile technology, they'd give Nokia junk investment status in 2010. But they only seem to react to quarterly reports, which result in a lag.
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They only needed to pay off a few key quislings, the net worth of the company is irrelevant.
You think they can do anything about it? Protectionism is not looked on favourably by
Those who can, do... (Score:2)
... those who can't, litigate.
Yup microsoft has taken over fully (Score:2)
East texas transported to germany (Score:2)
WTF. I never in a million years would have imagined the new patent gladiator field would be germany. Sad.
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The defendants just need to drag this case out a few years longer. NOK prices will be so low, these companies can just pool some resources together. Maybe about $200 each, and buy out NOK altogether.
This took 7 years to happen to SCO. SCO limped around for years with a penny-stock market cap until Chapter 7 actually happened, all on the hot and humid bloviations of Darl and his other brother Darl.
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BMO
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Re:Not News (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes this is MS having a hissy along with Nokia because they backed a loooooooooooooooossser now they are both doing an apple and having a childs hissy fit someone give them a good slap on the back of the legs that will calm them down please ..
The comparison to Apple isn't entirely fair. Apple didn't back a loser, they backed a winner but are having a child's hissy fit anyway because other people backed winners too and that's not fair and they should be the only ones to get anything and they're going to scream and scream until they get their way. In comparison Microsoft and Nokia sulking over losingis relatively mature.
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Not that new (Score:5, Informative)
Although the following interactive graph is kinda outdated, it still illustrate the mess ---
http://bl.ocks.org/1153292 [ocks.org]
pew pew! (Score:2)
Or scary spiders that crawl out of the holes and climb up the web.
Be sure to remember to cut me in when you get $$$$ (that's four dollar signs) for the game.
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At what point will governments wake up and realize that the patent system is paralyzing entire industries?
You forgot one essential fact - that in Politics, money is the grease that makes the machinery run smoothly
The patent system is obviously broken, and this broken patent system is making a lot of lawyers very very VERY WEALTHY
These very wealthy lawyers will make sure that nobody fuck with the goose that lays golden eggs for them, and they will use their new found wealth to lobby the politicians to make the patent system even more pathetic
Even the world at large suffers, it does not matter. It will never matt