Europe Agrees To Send Airline Passenger Data To US 403
Qedward writes "The European Parliament has approved the controversial data transfer agreement, the bilateral PNR (passenger name register), with the US which requires European airlines to pass on passenger information, including name, contact details, payment data, itinerary, email and phone numbers to the Department of Homeland Security. Under the new agreement, PNR data will be 'depersonalized' after six months and would be moved into a 'dormant database' after five years. However the information would still be held for a further 15 years before being fully 'anonymized.'"
As this violates... (Score:5, Interesting)
... the German "constitution" (actually we dont have one, its called Grundgesetz, but never the less) and some public laws in Germany, I'm curious how the German government is thinking to get away with letting this pass.
In other words: German people have a government guaranty that something like this does never happen with their data. Go one "democratic" level up, and that's gone - cant happen.
I'm curious how far this is in line with the (interpreting of) the EU constitution (which is finally in place for a few years, but that took some kind of precaution to make sure it's vague enough here and there...).
If the pirate party jumps on this, things will likely go crazy.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Umm... last time I checked my globe US airlines could be hurt by a European No-Fly Zone more than Euro planes would suffer from No-US-flight zones.
In a nutshell, do you really want to fly across Libya to get to Iraq? Or do the trans-sibirian trip to Moscow?
Re:As this violates... (Score:5, Interesting)
Same way the internet police state law (aka "Vorratsdatenspeicherung") was treated. It will be implemented and then they pray and hope it survives the Constitution Court.
Only one-way transfer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Europe sends data about all financial transactions to the US. Does the US send data about all financial transactions to Europe?
Europe sends data about all airline passengers to the US. Does the US send data about all airline passengers to Europe?
Long ago I thought we were equal. Obviously, one of us is more equal than the other
Most people won't care: they love America (Score:4, Interesting)
Most people coming to the USA on holiday to see Mickey Mouse won't care. They really won't spend too long thinking about it, and it won't bother them too much. They trust the US government. They've already bought into the American Dream, they are coming for their holidays because they believe the USA is a wonderful place. The thing that will really bother these people will be if they feel unduly harrassed entering the country by customs etc.
The second large group coming to the USA will be business people, and they will be pragmatic: they will put up with the hassle and the sharing of information if it wins their company business.
I think only a small minority of people will object: those that can are sufficiently bothered and are able to take their business elsewhere (can find a US equivalent to work with) or will want to holiday elsewhere because they are unhappy with this information sharing. I don't think this is a large group of people. I suppose the important question is whether their loss to the USA is important to the well being of the USA.
Re:Only one-way transfer? (Score:3, Interesting)
Long ago I thought we were equal. Obviously, one of us is more equal than the other
The degree of equality depends on the size of the stick you carry and whether or not you have a spine to make tough decisions. Our recent crops of leaders in Europe have been and still are a bunch of pussies, which has been amply demonstrated by the way they have handled all manner of crisis over the last few years starting with the how they let genocide go on for several years in the former Yugoslavia (before the Americans finally kicked them in their collective ass and forced them to solve that problem in the only way Milosevic and his ilk respected) and right up to the current Euro crisis. They seem to have no spine to do what is staring them in the face which is kick Greece and other countries that are incapable of fiscal responsibility out of the Euro zone before it disintegrates.
Re:Most people won't care: they love America (Score:2, Interesting)
I think you are underestimating the growing dislike for the US laws. I already stopped taking vacations in the US year ago when one of your laws restricted a friend of mine to enter your country. He had been a member of a left wing political party for a few years. Which seemed to be enough to condemn him, like your own senators and US born babies, as a terrorist. And i'm not the only one i know who will not go to the US anymore because of it's way of thinking. I can garantee your tourisme is suffering, even if the average american might think we all love you guys. And as more of these kind of 'deals' and laws are made public, more people will just choose other locations to go to.
My company also restricted travel to the US to essential travel only. The administration requirements just aren't worth it. It also doesn't help that one of our most senior managers spend 2 months getting approved to get into the US because his name is arabic. I fully understand the need to protect the US against outside attacks, but too many 'normal' people are disproportionately burdened and hindered.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, Hans Ze Vacationer does care, at least those who are informed a bit. When Bush was in power, I told my wife: I won't go to the US as long as Bush is in power, halfway expecting the insanity would end after is reign. It didn't. While discussing vacations recently, my wife brought up the US (We saw a really nice documentary about San Fransisco and I've been there and I'd love to take my wife) and I said "no". She didn't understand as Bush was gone, and I told her we basically have no rights at all there. Calmed her down a bit.
Jean le Commerce is a tough nut. Yes, if he's dealing with US corporations, he probably has no choice. However, many International companies now already start to make sure conferences and meetings are done outside of the US to avoid the risk of laptops being ceized, and employees being held. That's a business risk, whether you like it or not.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't know, we are already sending information about all bank transactions to the US.
A local shop in Denmark had their credit transactions cancelled by the US because they bought Cuban cigars from a company in Germany to sell in their own shop. Which is perfectly legal.
Re:Source is here... (Score:3, Interesting)
Amazing stuff... So, do people still think Hugo Chavez's talk about the "arrogance and selfishness of the american imperialism" talk is crazy?
Re:Source is here... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have seen nothing in the agreement that limits the data gathering to flights to / from the USA
And that is the one reason I see to object to this. Sharing passenger data on passengers flying to/from the US makes sense. They're just going to have to provide that info to customs when the passenger arrives anyway, getting the info ahead of time is a smart security move and is not an invasion of privacy.
However, if this provides info on passengers on flights that are not to/from the US, then it goes too far and we should object. You could make a case for providing info on previous international flights for the passengers who are on a flight to the US. For instance, someone flies from Afghanistan to London, then to US, knowing they originated in Afghanistan might be important, even if the flights were a few months apart. But even in that instance, that info should not be provided until they book a flight into the US.