Hacked Emails Reveal Russian Astroturfing Program 153
gotfork writes "Quoting The Guardian: 'A pro-Kremlin group runs a network of internet trolls, seeks to buy flattering coverage of Vladimir Putin and hatches plans to discredit opposition activists and media, according to private emails allegedly hacked by a group calling itself the Russian arm of Anonymous.' While a similar program has operated in China for a long time, and some commentators have suggested that a similar program exists in Russia, this is the first confirmation."
Nooo. Really? (Score:5, Funny)
All those action hero images of Putin weren't real?
My faith in mankind is ruined.
In Soviet Russia internet trolls YOU!
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So... hacked Russian emails reveal politics are happening in Russia? Is that all this article's about?
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So... hacked Russian emails reveal politics are happening in Russia? Is that all this article's about?
It's more like the old days of the Cagey Bee, but with less of the Siberian Travel In Your Near Future found in fortune cookie.
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Just like the "US Cybercommand".
http://burka.blogspot.com/bushcodpiece1.jpg [blogspot.com]
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Just like every individual, group, organisation, corporation or government that ever goes to a Public Relations agency (correct abbreviation B$ 'lies for profit').
Problem is they are always outnumbered. To win they have to buy off so many people it becomes pointless. Of course they are always looking at ways of cheating and introducing automation into the system, to make one person seem like thousands on the internet but the internet simply tightens up new enrolment methods to ensure real people and thos
Re:Nooo. Really? (Score:4, Informative)
The point is that anti-opposition campaign in Russia has made a lot of claims that opposition demonstrations and online activity is all paid (the usual claim is that US Department of State is footing the bill), whereas the expression of admiration for the glorious leader is completely genuine.
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Of course, no sane people (outside of the North Korea) "express admiration for the glorious leader". It's a hyperbole.
Did you see the videos from the Feb 4 gathering?
Heck, half of government propaganda this day is basically "common folk" telling just how awesome they live, and thanking Putin personally for that. It's literally down to the same level as that old joke about summer having come, and how we should be thankful to CPSU for that.
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So far as I can see, the opposition side right now primarily demands free and fair presidential elections in March. I don't see how one can reasonably compromise about that.
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There are pretty specific demands for what constitutes free and fair voting outlined by the opposition. Do you disagree with them specifically?
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The specific demands [novayagazeta.ru] (pertaining to elections) to date have been:
1. Acknowledge the results of the parliamentary elections as invalid due to widespread documented fraud, and schedule new elections.
2. Detailed investigation of all frauds reported to date. In particular, Churov, as the head of the central electoral commission openly denying documented instances of fraud, should be fired and investigated for his role in them.
3. The reform of the electoral system with respect to party and candidate registration
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With respect to #1, do you think there's not sufficient evidence to indicate that fraud was widespread enough that it significantly skewed the result of elections? I'm not disputing that United Russia would still have the plurality of votes, but as it is they have more than half of all seats in the parliament, which lets them ignore other parties altogether for all issues except for constitutional amendments, and single-handedly pass laws. This wouldn't be the case if they had, say, 10% less votes than what
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I can believe it, but it's not immediately translatable to voting results. Note how it has a very large "don't know" and "haven't decided if I vote" categories, at 17% and 9% in August. I'd expect this to be even larger closer to the elections as the opposition ramped up its campaign of "vote for any party against UR". Some of those people wouldn't vote, of course, but some would come in and vote, and I'd expect that considerably more would vote for "anyone else but" - i.e. usually commies in practice.
Oh, a
In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
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Internet troll running pro-Kremlin group, seeking to buy flattering coverage of Vladimir Putin, by hatching plans to discredit opposition activists and media, according to private emails allegedly hacked by a group calling itself the Russian arm of Anonymous operates program similar to long-time Chinese, which some commentators have suggested that a similar program exists in Russia, confirms for the first time YOU!
Re:In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
The horror! (Score:5, Funny)
I am disgusted to discover that a politician would hire people to say nice things about them and bad things about their opponents. This must stop at once.
Re:The horror! (Score:4, Insightful)
What's changed is that the pervasiveness of social media and the anonymity of the internet makes it so that waging an astroturfing PR campaign can be both harder to detect and much more effective. Basically, you should take everything and everyone online with a grain of salt (including me!).
Re:The horror! (Score:5, Funny)
Basically, you should take everything and everyone online with a grain of salt (including me!).
I bet the Salt Manufacturer's Association paid you to say that...
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Basically, you should take everything and everyone online with a grain of salt (including me!).
I see...and a grain of salt including you is a pretty large one, did I get it right?
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Now, in the US! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am disgusted to discover that a politician would hire people to say nice things about them and bad things about their opponents. This must stop at once.
Indeed. In fact, I've got a lovely bridge to sell to anyone who thinks that something similar isn't already happening in the US, or really, in just about any Internet-savvy nation.
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We've already seen it over and over again here in the US with Microsoft, and that isn't even politics. (They even have an official name for their astroturfers: "Technical Evangelists") With all the campaign money that Obama's amassed, he's surely doing the same thing.
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Why on every criticism on Russia there's usual comparing with US? In this case, heaviest astroturfing from Microsoft pales from organizational level of Kremlin "web force". These guys are full time, full convinced that they are doing right job, not some bored PR guys playing "casual users".
Re:Now, in the US! (Score:5, Insightful)
There are differences. In Russia the oligarchs are untouchable as long as they don't challenge Putin politically or economically. All policy foreign and domestic is under sole control of the state.
In the US it is the opposite. Large areas of government policy are being controlled by the corporate elites. That is was ACTA/SOPA/etc are all about, as is TARP and the ongoing bank/Wall Street bailout. The government is shielding corrupt and inefficient corporate entities from the consequences of their incompetent behavior.
When Jamie Diamon, head of JPMorgan, said that "we have a right to make a profit", he was speaking literally. He thinks that the big banks are not subject to capitalism and should have guaranteed success. This is much closer to a feudal society, where the landed aristocracy always has the best, even when the peasants are starving. It is not capitalism, where failure is always an option. FDR called this "economic royalism", which is a good description of our current economic system.
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You really *don't* have a fucking clue what's going on in Russia, do you? Completely empty buzzword comparison. While of course it's oligarchy, however it is totally different in execution.
Believe me, what's going on with Capitalism in US and the world is bad enough on their own. There's no need to attach it to to every criticism on Russia :)
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I am disgusted to discover that a politician would hire people to say nice things about them and bad things about their opponents. This must stop at once.
Things in Russia are more like they are now than they have ever been before.
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I am disgusted to discover that a politician would hire people to say nice things about them and bad things about their opponents. This must stop at once.
Damned right it must stop. IBM has a patent on the process.
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I am disgusted to discover that a politician would hire people to say nice things about them and bad things about their opponents. This must stop at once.
It's not that which is the problem. It's that Putin, UR and people backing them claim "widespread popular support" as a justification for why they needn't bother dealing with the opposition at all. Some go further and claim that it even gives them legitimacy to crack down on the protests.
If there's good evidence that said "popular support" is not genuine but just an expensive fake, it strongly undermines the legitimacy of the current government and their recent actions.
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It is a good thing, really. Russian government shifts from killing, imprisoning and torturing its opponents to just dirty internet posts. There is a progress here.
now if only (Score:1)
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Re:now if only (Score:5, Informative)
Lol. "Sabotage" comes from French, not Russian.
A "sabot" is a shoe (in French), and the association comes from when Dutch workers would place their shows in machinery that was threatening to replace them (eg. these were the French-speaking equivalent of the English Luddites). Hence, "Sabot-age". The Russians have many cool words, but sabotage does not originate with them, Comrade Slashdotter.
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Darn it. (Score:2)
I read that as "astrosurfing program" and it sounded a lot better than a couple of hired goons shilling for Uncle Vlad. Oh well...
Cool, brah. (Score:2)
I read that as "astrosurfing program" and it sounded a lot better than a couple of hired goons shilling for Uncle Vlad. Oh well...
For make glorious People's Republic of Brah, brah.
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I read that as "astrosurfing program" and it sounded a lot better than a couple of hired goons shilling for Uncle Vlad. Oh well...
The word on the street is that you abuse houseplants and extort cheese from small rodents.
Lie! (Score:1)
This lie! No such program exist. Subversive Western propaganda! Everyone love dear leader Putin. Da, comrades?
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Yes, just like everyone here in America loves dear leader Obama.
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Am I the only one who gigglesnorted after reading this?
I don't want to sound trollish, but obama was practically heralded as the chosen one, and anyone who spoke out against him was reflexively labeled a racisist biggot.....
So, now its perfectly possible to say he's a douche who shouldn't have been elected, and not be called a racisist fuck?
When did that happen? I'm honestly curious.......
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Of course he should have been elected, at least once he made it past the primary. We're pretty much stuck electing Democrats until the Republicans marginalize the ignorant religious conservatives who have taken over their party. Being racist, superstitious, and still believing in trickle-down economics at this late date completely disqualifies them for office.
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No, he never should have been elected. All the stuff that was levied against him back then, that he was inexperienced, had no real voting record ("present!"), that his connections were shady, were all true and smart voters should have picked someone else. There was a whole field of better Democrats running in the 2008 primaries, and every single one of them was better than Obama, but the stupid Democrat voters managed to pick the absolute worst choice of them all. Even Hillary would have been better, and
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McCain and salmon breath were disqualified on grounds of being clearly chaotic evil, and stupid, respectively.
Obama was just a charismatic lair with a hollywood-bright, bleached-white smile, selling obvious lies that everyone seemed eager to lap up, because "OMG! He's black!"
Political office should never be a popularity contest, or a "Mr.America" pagent. His skincolor mattered as much then as it does now. That is to say, it matters to fuck all nothing.
The problem was that people who said "he's clearly a lie
Never in the USA (Score:5, Funny)
This could never happen in the USA.
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Bush did it. (Score:2)
Bush did it and like everything else no laws apply to him. ever. Like Nixon said, its not illegal if the president does it.
Only was caught with a half dozen or so; here is the top google result I found in no time: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/26/politics/main669432.shtml [cbsnews.com]
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Bush administration did NOT adapt the policy "if the President does it, it's not illegal." Your point about the columnist is very, very keen, but that administration did clear everything with lawyers. And employing a journalist to promote a life-style that HHS considers healthy (even if you disagree with that assessment) is a far, far cry from employing journalists to spread subversive information about other countries in order to influence elections in the home country. Having said that, I would agree
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Your bias is showing. Obama IS using his lawyers and building upon what Bush did and taking it to the next logical step. He is not breaking the laws any more than Bush did (so yes, I think he is breaking them too;) he is a continuation, it is almost as if Bush was still in office on some issues. It is almost as if somebody else is running the agenda and either dictating policy moves or makes sure both parties think the same way on certain issues. It looks like a good cop bad cop situation to me; some see o
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There's laws against a lot of things in the US, but that's never stopped successive US governments breaking them.
Commies (Score:1)
Propaganda is only something for commies
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Yeah... good thing Slashdot is completey squeaky clean of it :D
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sry, i forgot the sarcasm tag.
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Sarcasm? That is so unamerican not even a stinkin' commie would dare to use it!!! For shame. >:[
I wish to express outrage over this bad reporting (Score:5, Funny)
This poor news coverage by _SLASHDOT_ is clearly aimed at making the Russian People's leader look bad to this _AMERICAN_ audience. As a Russian _MAN_ aged _32_, I can conclusively state that Mr. Putin has been a blessing to my country. I look forward to his continuing to lead us throught _2012_ and in the future.
Signed,
_MyLongNickName_
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No, he's implying that he input values into blanks on a boilerplate response.
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Gosh, isn't English subtle!
You have managed to correct Mr 655733's interpretation of Mr 822545's comment with a functionally equivalent interpretation.
As for Mr 822545 - he should have done a better job of underlining. He simply should have typed the words and then used backspace on his typewriter and then put in the underscores. Isn't progress great?
Cheers
Jon
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Sort of; technically, I reversed part of his interpretation and clarified nuance in the rest. So, while some of the functions (macro vs. blank) might be equivalent, the interpretation is not. Viz.:
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You forgot to mention that this slanderous publication was funded by the U.S. Department of Defense in order to destabilize progress and development in Russia.
That's -50% from your pay, by the way. Be more attentive next time. ~
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C'mon, now (Score:1)
putin us on (Score:1)
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I am a CIA plant. Prove me wrong.
Last I checked, plants can't type, being mostly immobile. ~
Not a surprise (Score:2)
Every political party in every country with internet in it has paid commenters. I believe most people here have already seen more than enough of them.
Job Posting: Corporate Communications (Score:3, Interesting)
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10 year old news (Score:3)
To those who read Russian interwebs since '90 the rise of government astroturfing should have been obvious starting about '00. There was a marked change in tone and verbage of forum comments on different online forums. Such posters are called "brigades" and thought to be FSB operatives.
Outrage in 3, 2, 1.... (Score:2)
....Ohhh, nevermind :)
This is actually non-news. Everyone with long enough experience with web for last four years have seen them at almost any article or resource giving Russia, Soviet Union or Kremlin bad rep. Wikipedia articles about USSR or about Bolshevist crimes - those pages have experienced heavy shelling from these guys. They are obsessed with pointing that you are wrong, not they.
I don't even care about them anymore. I'm just sad that such big country and yet they are living in paranoia, investing
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I don't even care about them anymore. I'm just sad that such big country and yet they are living in paranoia, investing almost nothing in infrastructure, but in same time waste their money to play hardliners and allow people to die (yeah, about Syria), and meddling with politics in their neighborhood countries. You can't get your respect in such way.
I hope you do understand the difference between "them" as in Russian government, and "them" as in Russian people - especially when the country is not exactly democratic. People are actively working [wikipedia.org] at changing that last part right now, which would hopefully also let us do something about those things you're complaining about, or at least some of them (I don't think a post-Putin Russia would back Assad, for example). But it doesn't help when you choose to "not care anymore".
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Sounds pretty much exactly the same as the USA to me. Replace Syria with, oh I dunno... Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Same shit, different media spi
Better summary (Score:2)
well, considering.. (Score:3)
Well Syria's Assad has Huffington Post (Score:2)
What's fair is fair.
The difference between the US and this is (Score:4, Informative)
The difference between the US and this is that in Russia this is paid for with enormous amounts of taxpayer money (hired drummers alone at a pro-Puting meeting cost something like $800K), and people are threatened with pink slips at work unless they go to pro-government meetings. When you live hand to mouth and don't have any savings, the prospect of getting fired over some BS meeting is pretty scary. And when the election time rolls around, they stuff the ballot boxes, and then if that proves insufficient, simply rewrite final counts when no one is looking. That country is truly ruled by a bunch of crooks and thieves. Can't wait to see the Russian people to hang them on the "teeth" of the Kremlin wall. They did this a hundred years ago, they can do it again. Russia just can't catch a fucking break.
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Oh no, the US has a ton of problems. But it it's nowhere near as bad as today's (and tomorrow's, for at least another few years) Russia. Here, you can easily live your entire life without giving or receiving a bribe. There, it's just a fact of life, and some fairly mundane things just can't be done without bribing someone. Here, in a court of law, you actually have a pretty solid chance of getting a fair trial. There, you have to bribe the judge and hope to god that your opponent did not pay more (or is not
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I have news for you, wealth was not fairly distributed even in the USSR. Some had more than others.
And where did I say anything about "fair" distribution of wealth? There's no such thing. There is such a thing as living without bribery and theft.
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Um, no. You don't have to rely on government to get good education. You just need a brain and a student loan. Second, you don't have to start as a hired worker, though it's not a bad option, and you certainly don't have to be in your 40's before you start your own. Sergey Brin is 38 (billionaire since his early 30's). Zuckerberg is 27. Russia makes trillions on oil and gas, Russians should live like kings.
Russian government is not interested in getting rid of bribery because they rely on it for their own pr
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To put things into perspective an extra $7/day would mean 28% boost to average per-capita GDP. And once that money enters the economy it really turns into $35, since banks loan it out five times over. Russian people could live a heck of a lot better if they saw any of that wealth. Instead, they're getting tax hikes later this year to help pay for government pensions.
BTW, are you one of those paid pro-Putin shills I keep reading about? To state, point blank, that the government in Russia is interested in eli
And in the US.... (Score:2)
there is the so called main streme News knot.
Re:Tu Quoque? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Israel has legitimate security concerns, most of which, by the way, stem from Russian geo-political policies
No. Israel has self-inflicted security concerns from acting as if they are a cut above the rest of the world's people and treating every non-Israeli with complete and utter disdain and contempt (and many countries collectively as sub-human) while conducting themselves as if they are above the laws to which every other country in the world is subject.
They have only been able to get away with this becau
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Umm. You are posting as an AC. I have over 900 posts over more than 10 years on this site. You can't possibly be arguing that I am astroturfing. Well, you can possibly be arguing that. Just not credibly.
Someone compared Israel to Russia's propaganda. I pointed out that comparison was laughable. But let me see. So first you tried a deflection. When that didn't work, you went for the ad hominem. When I reminded you that you were off the topic, you decided to go with projection. Do you have a list
Re:Tu Quoque? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't recall Israel supplying half of Russia's neighbors with weapons to attack Israel
Did you mean to write "weapons to attack Russia"?
If so, then you might find it interesting that Israel has supplied [time.com] Georgian army with UAVs, NVDs, AA systems, and many other things - all the stuff used during the war in South Ossetia, which, may I remind, was started by a Georgian attack on the area of responsibility of Russian UN peacekeeping force, and specifically on said peacekeeping force (10 people KIA from hostile fire - artillery and tanks shelled peacekeepers' barracks).
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...the war in South Ossetia, which, may I remind, was started by a Georgian attack on the area of responsibility of Russian UN peacekeeping force, and specifically on said peacekeeping force (10 people KIA from hostile fire - artillery and tanks shelled peacekeepers' barracks).
Well......
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South Ossetian separatists, supported by Moscow, escalated their machine gun and mortar fire attacks against neighboring Georgian villages
This is basically saying "things are as they always were". Both sides have been making covert sniper and mortar shots at each other across the ceasefire line pretty much since the Ossetian independence war was over in 1992. "Escalation" just means that they start firing more - usually it goes tit for tat, with someone escalating based on some perceived grievance, the other side responding in kind, etc until they run out of what they've got and calm down for a while - this has also been going on for a long t
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Did you mean to write "weapons to attack Russia"?
Yes, I did mean that. Unfortunately, I only noticed my mistake after submitting.
As for the rest of your comment, I explained why that not only was the aggressor Russia, but also that Israel was not supplying Georgia for the purposes of that war (it was supplying Georgia's operations as US ally in Iraq BEFORE the war with Russia). The explanation is here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2663515&cid=38994835 [slashdot.org] (or you could just scroll below).
To call the Russian occupation force a "UN keeping force"
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To call the Russian occupation force a "UN keeping force" is a height of cynicism, by the way. Russia manufactured the strife between Georgians and the other Georgians. Then it manufactured the legend that Ossetians had a historical strife against Georgia. And all of it was done, again, to satisfy Russia's geo-political ambitions.
So you're basically repeating Georgian propaganda word for word. Have you actually ever talked to any Ossetian to see if they consider themselves "Georgians", or to hear what they can say about "manufactured strife"? Do you even realize that those guys even speak a completely different, non-mutually-intelligible language?
I wonder what your take on Kosovo is...
because without it Russia would have no land access to the Black Sea
I would advise doing some minimal research before posting obviously stupid things. If you just look at the map [wikipedia.org], Russia already has a Black Sea coastli
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So you're basically repeating Georgian propaganda word for word.
Calling facts "propaganda" does not make them any less facts. I have no idea what Geogia's position is. But these ARE the facts.
Have you actually ever talked to any Ossetian to see if they consider themselves "Georgians"
I have seen interviews with them conducted before 2000. And the passions were nowhere near as flamed as they are now. It took years of Russia flaming those passions in order for them to burn into people's memory as a legend.
Do you even realize that those guys even speak a completely different, non-mutually-intelligible language?
Do you understand that there is 70000 ossetians living in Georgia? That's not an ethnic group. That's a condominium. There is over 2000 languages in Indi
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I have seen interviews with them conducted before 2000.
Conducted by whom? Georgian government TV channel?
And the passions were nowhere near as flamed as they are now.
Did you miss that whole bit where Ossetia fought a war of independence from Georgian in 1991-92, after the then-president Gamsakhurdia proclaimed "Georgia for Georgians"? Did you miss the part where it won said war, and remained de facto independent since then, with no intention to ever rejoin Georgia?
Are you seriously saying that without "inflammation", Ossetians would just let Georgian army walk into Tskhinvali and annex the territory?
Do you understand that there is 70000 ossetians living in Georgia? That's not an ethnic group. That's a condominium. There is over 2000 languages in India. Many of them are spoken by a small isolated group living in a very small region. Does that mean that they are not Indians?
You're comparing appl
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I have seen interviews with them conducted before 2000.
Conducted by whom? Georgian government TV channel?
US-based Russian-speaking journalists.
Estonia hands out its passports to Russian citizens living in western Pskov oblast, in territories that were at some point a part of Estonia. Is that a problem?
Not in itself. You want to argue each event in isolation and hope that it will make the entire picture stink less. It won't. The fact that Estonia gives out passports (if it's true) to those who can trace their heritage to relatives living in Estonia a few generations ago is Estonian business. Poland does the same thing, from what I know and so does Ireland. It's just that when Ireland guarantees Irish citizenship to anyone who can prove that they are "Irish", they a
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