Anonymous Takes Down DOJ, RIAA, MPA and Universal Music 649
First time accepted submitter EW87 writes "Shortly after a federal raid today brought down the file sharing service Megaupload, hackers aligned with the online collective Anonymous have shut down sites for the Department of Justice, Universal Music Group and the RIAA. 'It was in retaliation for Megaupload, as was the concurrent attack on Justice.org,' Anonymous operative Barrett Brown tells RT on Thursday afternoon."
Justice down? I think not. (Score:5, Insightful)
Justice down? Sounds like Justice is alive and well to me.
Re:Justice down? I think not. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Justice down? I think not. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Justice down? I think not. (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's some "accounting" for you:
MPAA has 6 members: Disney, 20th Century Fox, Universal, and these three, with a yearly operating income of...
Sony Pictures - $300 million ... Google - $10.381 billion
Paramount - $300 million
Warner Bros. - $845 million
Now THAT is what I call voting with your dollars :)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Justice, though, is at best one of those words that make us look away or turn up our coat collars" - JD Salinger.
Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess the war has now begun. Taking down the department of justice is a clear start of all hostility. I am not sure I agree with them. But they have stuff in their pants!
Re:Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Funny)
I guess the war has now begun. Taking down the department of justice is a clear start of all hostility. I am not sure I agree with them. But they have stuff in their pants!
And when they're in prison, they're going to have stuff in the other side.
good luck (Score:4, Insightful)
taking the immense botnets' masters and very, very elite hackers that reside in russia and china out, without world war iii.
Re: (Score:3)
you are comparing NZ government, with russia, or * gasp * china ?
Re:good luck (Score:4, Insightful)
"Very, very elite hackers?" You do realize you're talking about Anonymous, right? They're a bunch of basement-dwelling twats with a V for Vendetta fetish
yeah. a bunch of basement dwelling twats with a v for vendetta fetish.
first, if you had known zit about the underground scene, you would know that they had a 'v for vendetta' fetish LONG before even v for vendetta was published as a comic. it is the general sentiment/culture/understanding in those parts.
second, twats with fetishes cannot break in and steal data from defense contractors, or take down major websites ranging from fbi to doj.
and if you think that the botnet power that can take down those sites are owned by a bunch of basement dwelling twats - you are really way too ignorant of this.
Re:Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Interesting)
My state had a judge sentence kids to a private prison that made donations to him. Pennsylvania.
You see 50 million "pirates". The military complex and privately run prison system sees 50 million scapegoats that just paved the golden road to profits.
Re:Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Look like complete idiots"... to who? Kids on forums like you? Grownups will condemn these silly DDOS attacks (if they understand them at all), and it does not help any cause... and to people who actually understand network infrastructure (capacity planning, attack mitigation)? They know this shit can happen to anyone, even precious Google. It doesn't make anybody "look like complete idiots", it's just angry children with botnets who want attention.
Re:Wow. They did dare! (Score:5, Funny)
Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
With friends like that for the cause of freedom of the internet, who needs enemies? I have to think that they just -increased- the odds of draconian legislation being passed to help contain outbreaks just like this.
Reminds me of a line from a Douglas Adams book, referencing the distant rumble of a passed storm - leaving the impression of a man muttering "and another thing", who lost an argument 20 minutes ago. Yeah, this is a pretty poor grumble, nothing to match the heroics of Wikipedia, Wired, Google, et all who took on SOPA/PIPA in a constructive manner.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm no stranger to or opponent of hyperbole used figuratively to illustrate a point and, in fact, I think I often fail to get my message across when using it.
But I suspect you are saying "heroics of Wikipedia, Wired, Google, et all" with a straight face...
Not that it isn't unexpectedly great what they've all done, but for the corporations of the lot, I'm sure the impact on the bottom line is carefully thought through.
Serendipitously, the actions of these are at the moment aligned with what is right for everyone.
Publicly traded corporations are not heroic, nor good or evil.
In general (as in this case) they will say and do whatever social darwinism will have their intestines percolate to the top and out of their PR-mouth.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps the most constructive thing we can do is re-engineer the DNS architecture so that it cannot be destroyed so easily.
This would be a great victory of intelligence over politics - something that is way overdue.
Perhaps some kind of Beowulf DNS Cluster arrangement. Or a RAID/striped/mirrored DNS database. One that cannot be centrally administered. In order to take down a website/DNS/Server - you need to physically shut down the server.
Now, I have no doubt that DoJ would seek out ways to accomplish this task, but at least other countries (with more sane governments) would have the opportunity to oppose such sloppy legislation.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
All those people who dare opposing unjust laws! They are just provoking an unreasonable response! The world would have been a much better place if that Rosa Parks had just sat in the back of the bus, like she was told.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Bus_Boycott [wikipedia.org] was the direct effect of Parks' protest and caused major finacial loses for the transportation system. Now, tell me how it is different from DDOSing the living shit out of **AA and friends?
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
Mainly because you can't boycott their closest friend, the DoJ.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Funny)
DOSing is not a violent act; it's just a major inconvenience for the users of the site that forces them to go elsewhere for a while. This is more akin to Rosa Parks taking a shit in the back of the bus.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't help but think (Score:4)
and really. (Score:5, Insightful)
you think that, if they havent done that, no crap like sopa pipa schmogga would be out ?
there werent any such hacktivism back in 2005. and yet, they popped out the attack on network neutrality at that year. apparently they have been cooking it since 2-3 years. and also the rumors of acta starting came out that year. so, it was probably underway from a while ago, but noone knew.
wake up. this is a war, and they treat you as their enemy. they were BENT to do these, to implement censorship, REGARDLESS of what you did.
you havent engaged in any acts of terrorism. neither your neighbors. in fact, there hasnt been any case of domestic terrorism in the u.s. since 2001.
and yet, habeas corpus was just invalidated with the infinite detention act ..............
see ? it doesnt matter whether you behaved. they will do it regardless.
hacktivism only reminds people that all is not lost. and governments and corporations are not all that powerful. in that, its something good. its like the gestapo prison air raid british did in early ww ii. it was strategically unimportant, but the deed was so courageous and so irritating to germans that it broke the air of invincibility around them and gave morale to both allies and the french resistance.
its time for you to say 'viva la resistance !'. for you are already under occupation in america.
Re:and really. (Score:4, Insightful)
habeas corpus is practically invalidated. introducing exceptions to condition, which can be overridden easily, does not change practicality.
what are you expecting ? someone from govt. to come to cnn and announce that habeas corpus is no longer valid ?
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
No, Anonymous is right.
SOPA meant anyone could take down anyone else's website for any or none reason.
Now Anon shows what that would mean. For once there is a actually a point in the DDoS.
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Interesting)
soon the internet will be reduced to posting xkcd comics back and forth... and millions of years from now, when the first hard drives are finally restored, they will think they are hieroglyphs, and we.. while a generally advanced civilization, resorted to an alphabet that was 4095 comics long.. because I believe in the Randall.. but really.. who needs more than 4 gigs?
Re:Can't help but think (Score:5, Insightful)
We should all just roll over and do nothing
I didn't say that. What I meant to strongly imply is that DDoS is totally counterproductive and accomplishes less than nothing. Someone else on here pointed out that airing dirty laundry of the bad guys might at least accomplish something. All this DDoS attack does is stir up the public's fear of anarchy and crime so that their elected representatives can scare them into supporting some nasty bit of freedom-stealing legislation that affects all of us.
Beating down SOPA by rallying all the sheep in the world was a triumph. This DDoS thing is a textbook example of shooting oneself in the foot for no purpose.
Well done them... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm certain the feds can back-track the traffic and find more ip addresses to servers which were compromised and home addresses which controlled them. The net isn't as loose as it once was and the more this activity happens the more tools the feds will build to track and back-track.
Short term victory, that's all.
Re: (Score:3)
So... the Cyber Police back-traced it?
Man, the consequences will never be the same again!
The opportunity to do these things is in limited supply. Each iteration of attacks exposes more of the means and the perpetrators.
Utterly juvenile reaction. "Hey, lookit me! I can take down ur websites! LOL! Take that, teh man!"
Re:Well done them... (Score:4, Funny)
gl backtracing us cyber police, we're behind seven proxies.
operative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anonymous operative Barrett Brown
Does not being Barret Brown contradicts beins Anonymous? ;)
Paul B.
Re:operative? (Score:4, Funny)
Anonymous? You must be mistaken - he is a member of Pseudonymous. They just like to call themselves Anonymous because, well, you can't call yourselves Pseudonymous if that's your group's actual name. It wouldn't make any sense.
They need better things to do (Score:4, Insightful)
Taking down sites will do nothing but give the corrupted politicians more amo. Why not concentrate on digging up dirt con corruption and start making it public? Get some incriminating info on RIAA/MPAA/Politicians.
Re:They need better things to do (Score:4, Insightful)
Get some incriminating info on RIAA/MPAA/Politicians.
You're assuming that they are actually doing something illegal. In this society, immoral, stupid, or dickish does not mean illegal.
Oh the irony. (Score:5, Insightful)
The CITIZENS of the country who elect and send representatives to make laws for them, cannot do ANYthing against the repression those representatives rain down on them - from nullification of habeas corpus to censorship. if they do, they are pushed into 'free speech zones', or batoned down in public ............. but, those who are dubbed as 'criminals', react on their behalf with unmatched efficiency that would put the biggest picketing protest to shame....
when things come to this point in a society, it means that that society, with everything in it, is broken beyond repair and needs a total reset.
Staged? (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's quite likely this entire thing is a staged PR stunt by the SOPA/PIPA cartell to generate a little counter-press. Call me paranoid, but It apprears to me all to convenient that something like this happens just now. At least it's a theory worth entertaining, imho.
Begun! (Score:4, Funny)
You think they give a shit? (Score:5, Insightful)
Websites mean little compared to winning ideological battles.
Re:You think they give a shit? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You think they give a shit? (Score:4, Insightful)
Might I humbly suggest that if the public cared about incompetency then Sony Entertainment would no longer be in business and most nearly every PS3 would already have been recycled.
Might I also suggest that if people cared about their digital property rights that Universal Music, EMI, etc. [wikipedia.org], Paramount, Disney, etc. [wikipedia.org] would be hemorrhaging money and preparing to file for bankruptcy protection.
The war that needs to be fought has not just one front but two. The people in charge and the people who could care less.
War (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, instead of the revolt that is needed over copyright, we'll probably just end up with some kids in gitmo for the rest of their lives and another SOPA/PIPA copy passed in a few months.
Wake up, now is the time to stand up.
Re:War (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, instead of the revolt that is needed over copyright, ...
indeed: [gonzotimes.com]
Intellectual Property is a myth. It is invented with the backing of the threat of force of the state. It is the idea that knowledge or information can be owned by one certain company or person. The myth is perpetuated that people who copy are pirates or thieves. Even those who file share and copy movies and music have come to call themselves pirates. The problem is that it is not piracy or theft. It is theft if I take something of yours. If I copy something of someones or my own it is simply not theft, it is copying.
DDoS? (Score:3)
As much as I want to see a vigilante internet group of elite white-hat hackers send a potent message, a DDoS is hardly effective. It grabs a headline or two, but in the end, does nothing.
Too bad l0pht/CDC went legit.
*sigh*
Idiocy (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, taking down sharing sites is bad. But vigilante attacks at a time when the government is already itching to censor the internet are fucking silly. It's like protesting the TSA by putting bombs in your luggage.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Idiocy (Score:4, Funny)
It's like protesting the TSA by putting bombs in your luggage.
Considering the track record of the TSA they probably wouldn't even notice the bombs...
I expect a lot of criticism directed at Anonymous (Score:5, Insightful)
..but despite that, I'll be a bit less politically correct and give a little sign of appreciation: good targets, guys. MPAA, RIAA and the greatest copyrights troll of all, Universal. Good selection.
"internet spring" (Score:5, Insightful)
While the SOPA protest yesterday was effective, today's action by the DoJ was basically a big "fuck you" to due process and working within the system.
So fine, you want a war, you got one. For every site they take down, we need to take down 5 or 10, and not just for one day, for as long as is possible.
The time to be peaceful and work within the system is obviously over. Occupy Wall Street was nowhere near as effective as Arab Spring, and that's because we were not throwing Molotov Cocktails and shooting cops.
Ok, we got the message. No matter how hard we try and work within the system, you will CHANGE the system to be to our disadvantage.
So fuck you.
Now it's war, complete with the cocktails and shootings, until things really do change.
Re:"internet spring" (Score:4, Insightful)
today's action by the DoJ was basically a big "fuck you" to due process and working within the system.
How so? They convened a grand jury to look at the evidence, then got warrants, and now they're filing charges. That IS due process. I'm suspect about whether or not the evidence is genuine, but I haven't seen it and neither have you, so it's way too early to say whether or not this was a legitimate action.
Useless move (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell, Anonymous? What damage does hacking DoJ or the RIAA/MPA sites?
Hack iTunes, hack Netflix, hack pages that offer services whose money goes to RIAA pockets. If you shut down a page that offers nothing, what you get is nothing. (except being charged for (pretty much) terrorism without causing any significant damage to the people you want to attack).
Anonymous should damage their SOURCES OF REVENUE, not their useless face sites.
Completely different thinking (Score:5, Insightful)
How about arguing that the law can crack down on megaupload just fine shows the lack of necessity for SOPA and PIPA?
Update (Score:5, Insightful)
copyright.gov [copyright.gov] is up
DOJ [justice.gov] is up
RIAA [riaa.com] seems to be down
MPAA [mpaa.org] is up
UMG [universalmusic.com] is down
BMI [bmi.com] is down
OK, now that we've got those facts sorted out, the next question is who cares?
This isn't like a DDOS attack against Amazon or Google. None of these organizations, government or otherwise, depend on their Web sites to transact business. Copyright.gov is an informational resource that contains reference material you can find in many other places. No one cares if it's down. Did you even know it existed before it allegedly went down? Justice.gov exists to inform the people about what the department is doing. That's it. If Anonymous wants to raise awareness about the DOJ's activities, taking their site down has the opposite effect, and does not hurt the DOJ. When was the last time you visited the MPAA or RIAA site? Is that where you're going to look to decide what movie you want to see tomorrow, or what music you're going to buy on iTunes? And UMG and BMI's businesses don't depend on their Web sites... their music is marketed and sold elsewhere.
We've known for about 12 years now that it's really not that hard in the scheme of things to DDOS even the biggest sites on the Web. Remember the shocking 3-hour attack on Yahoo [slashdot.org] in Feb 2000? The prevailing thought then was, "If they can shut down Yahoo, they can shut down anybody. [cnet.com]" This was a legitimate concern because with its site down, Yahoo's business does not exist. But these attacks are being directed at sites where it really doesn't matter. All it does it generate a scary-sounding news headline. Some of Anonymous's other antics have some real world implications for their targets... this does not.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if this is going to be the first of many instant responses to actions like this.
I wonder the effectiveness of these actions. I mean, how long can a DDOS be sustained? If they started really hosing systems in these retaliatory attacks, would the net effect be in their favour or against it? I mean, to me, this retaliation smirks of "Stop messing up our playground!" but the actions are merely name calling, I wonder the outcome if bloodied noses were created in the counterattack.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Just wait till parents can not order Disney crap for their kids online. Wait till Disney Worlds SCADA systems get taken down and has to shut down for a week.
They can do more than name calling.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
The only problem with this is that all those ankle biters and their parents are going to blame Anonymous, not Disney.
Still, it is nice to see the man get some payback, even if counter-productive.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Please people. Do not screw with industrial control systems. They are interlocked (hopefully in hardware as well, but not always) for safety. Messing with them can actually kill people. And lets hope they're not connected to the net at disney world. I hate copyright abuse as much as the next guy, but do you really want to start terrifying and killing kids on disney world rides? That is so messed up. Its one thing to hit a RIAA website, another to screw with something powerful that you don't really understand.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:wow (Score:4, Interesting)
I doubt seriously that Disney's ride controls are connected to the internet. Afaik nothing is much different at Disney World now than when I worked there in the early eighties. And the engineers there (Disney calls them "imagineers") are pretty damned sharp, I can't see them doing much very stupid when it comes to engineering -- mechanical and electrical, at least.
However, your "social engineering" is a bit frightening. The engineers there must have never taken any psychology courses, as evidenced by a mishap on a new ride when I worked there.
One of the perks of being a Disney employee is you got to ride the new rides before the general public -- Guinea pigs. They had a new roller coaster in Frontier land that was supposed to be a runaway mine train. I rode it , and WOW. It went sixty miles per hour (about 100kph). If you ride it, it's only 20 mph. What happened was one stupid employee decided to stand up in the car as it went into a tunnel, and the idiot obviously thought that the rock ledge would move out of the way. It knocked his head completely off! See, there IS a cure for stupid! They reduced the speed after that particular accident. Pity there are so many idiots, that was a hell of a ride!
If you visit the Haunted Mansion, keep in mind that someone died there! Makes it a lot more fun. One idiot tourist decided to get out of the car to get a closer look at the witch head hologram, not realising he was a hundred feet off the ground.
Twelve people died building the EPCOT "golf ball" (I forgot its real name). Disney nor any other corporation gives a rat's ass about your safety unless it costs them money. Corporations are by nature sociopathic. Everything they do is designed to garner more profit.
But still, driving there from Kissimmee is more dangerous than any of the rides, even if the SCADA systems get hacked. People in Florida drive like the dumbasses they are. So if you want to hack Disney's SCADA, go ahead. The death toll won't rise much.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
More importantly: MU is visited by millions of people, gets shut down, causes problems to said people.
Now I'm not american so I dunno about the DOJ, but who ever goes to the *AA websites? How is their enforced lack of presence from the net a damage to the corporations behind them? What's the point, other than "waahh, waaahh, stop messing with our toys"?
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Please define "it" for the rest of us. Because to most, "it" appears to be "anything that the people of anonymous take a fancy to this week".
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah that's my thought. To be honest, if anonymous thought that jamming turkey basters in their dicks would stop scientology they would probably do it. Then rave about how it worked, while posting pictures.
A new meme would be started, and Goatse.cx would have a new challenger.
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
--ow owwowowow.
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
"it" = the next wave of the "we are stopping piracy in defense of America" vs "screw you guys - you aren't as good as us - we'll take down your site to prove it"
The same war everyone has been having since Napster. These takedowns won't stop piracy. Site takedowns won't cause any harm to the lobbying organizations. Both sides will use the acts to fuel their respective fires.
In the end, the internet gets less open - the industry loses out on innovation because they are fighting - and the "costs of war" mean nobody wins.
However, it doesn't seem like the real pirates or the music/movie industry loses either - just the general population.
Re:wow (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter how immature Anonymous is being, nor how their efforts are non-productive or even counter-productive. None of that matters to them because it is simply human nature to strike when angered.
Arrest every single member of Anonymous, and another group will spring up to do the same thing. This is because their behavior is a direct consequence of their situation: real human beings perceive that they are the victims of harmful and unjust laws. So, they will do what history has demonstrated again-and-again to be human nature: strike the oppressor.
This response was entirely predictable. And as the government passes even more restrictive laws, and becomes even more draconian in their enforcement, more and more people will get pissed off and will fight back.
Some will fight back through proper political channels. Most feel too politically disempowered for that, so they will fight back more directly. More enforcement will only add fuel to this fire.
Unless the authorities capitulate, things will only get worse. Many innocent people will get caught in the middle and harmed, but that won't inhibit the "revolutionaries" for a second. They will fight until they are satisfied. Count on it.
All of this has happened before and this will all happen again. Those who remember history are doomed to watch it be repeated.
Re:Political channels (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the level of momentum turning toward the Big Brother state, there may not be that many "mature" political channels left. In case everyone missed it, they found a new weapon against "peaceful protest" - ridicule.
Occupy Wall Street was the first/best civil protest we've had in *decades*! The result? The media planted a few Laugh Off stories about some of the "Boys Will Be Boys" activities going on the sidelines and then the cops busted it all up, and we didn't have a followup. That's because they quietly destroyed B.W.B.B. those same decades ago, with the final lock as a nifty side effect of the 9-11 theme. "Oh look, ten thousand protesters aren't as orderly as school children or cowering workers!" Uh... protesters are ... angry, that' the definition, right?
The interesting thing is Slashdot has chosen to let the trolls post come ill or shill, because it's part of Taco's original foresight to the abuses of over-modding TOS policies now creeping everywhere else. The mod system could use a couple more finesses, but it's *us* modding each other, not the editors. That's starting to become a Meta-Experiment in the current climate.
I'm quite lenient with my mod scores - I only mod down the absolute lowest of the vulgar offtopic junk, or the "random word generator" posts, or the shock pics. I stay out of the "Shill - Anti-Shill" wars.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not certain that a DDoS on the MPAA's website would have the effect of embarrassment. It seems more like a victory; "Look, our measures are effective, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset."
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
In the end, the internet gets less open - the industry loses out on innovation because they are fighting - and the "costs of war" mean nobody wins.
Historically forcing sites offline by legal means have always lead to increased copyright infringement. People see it as a personal attack against their actions and beliefs (i.e. file sharing is okay) and so are even less inclined to give the bastards doing it money.
It also spurs development of new technologies that can't be taken down and which hide the user's identity. We should thank the RIAA/MPAA for improving privacy and security for all of us and ensuring our supply of free content is secure and invulnerable to legal attack.
Re:wow (Score:4, Funny)
"It" the thing that has begun.
Re:wow (Score:5, Interesting)
"It" is the beginning of a precedent whereby Sony, Universal, or Disney, when caught violating a Creative Commons license, can expect to have its assets seized, its operations shut down, and its executives arrested, jailed and charged with "piracy."
"It" is also a precedent whereby you can claim $500 million in losses that you don't have to report to shareholders, insurers, or the IRS.
This could lead to seriously awesome unintended consequences of chaos.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Who is going to bring the charges? Who is going to pay for years of red tape in court? An individual?
Even comparatively powerful nonprofits like the EFF don't have the resources to follow through on a copyright counterattack. Even if they did, it would simpy be retaliation, no more effective than a halfhearted DDOS for bringing about any real change.
That is why the campaign against SOPA/PIPA is so important, right now represents one of the few times we the people actually have a say in the copyright matter. And if they do pass, in any form, we have lost. I would expect the Patriot Act to get repealed before SOPA would.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
"it" appears to be "anything that the people of anonymous take a fancy to this week".
Are you new here? That is exactly what "it" is. The purpose of some portion of Anonymous is exactly what that portion of Anonymous says it is today. But they probably aren't talking to you. Tomorrow some portion of anonymous will decide to do the same thing, or something else. Pray that some portion of anonymous doesn't decide that making your life difficult would be teh lulz.
And that's why Anonymous will still be here tomorrow. There are no "leaders" to arrest. Because everybody speaks for Anonymous, nobody speaks for Anonymous. Anyone who tells you why Anonymous does something probably wasn't there when the decision was made.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe what the gist you are trying to say but failed too articulate, IMHO, is that ...
Authority without Accountability is never a good idea in the long run.
Anonymous are a bunch of little shits* who think they have some power - which they do for now. Their belief is the "end justifies the means" except they haven't (yet) learnt the lesson that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." We'll see how much of an influence they have in the coming years ...
The "problem" is copyright is not respected by the youth =) Which I say Good for them!
* Not all civil dis-obediance is bad.
"If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable." ~Louis D. Brandeis
Re:wow (Score:5, Interesting)
Do not stand for this flagrant abuse of our farcical democracy!
Megaupload has been forcibly closed by the FBI. In a sickening undermining of the people’s will, they are making an example out of an historic, legitimate, useful and well-known website. This is a prophetic glimmer of the coming war against pure free speech- the internet.
This happened once before. Here in the UK, the IWF (Internet Watch Foundation) is a censoring system for the internet. In 1996, the Metropolitan Police started requesting the banning of illegal content by ISPs in the UK. With veiled sly threats they asked that ISPs engage in ‘self-enforcement’ rather than forcing them to enforce the law on them.
Most of the ISPs complied except Demon internet. Demon was a British ISP that contributed to the Open Source community, ran several IRC servers and were pioneers of their time. They objected on the grounds of it being “unacceptable censorship”. A few days later, a tabloid expose appeared in the Observer newspaper alleging that the director of Demon was supplying paedophiles with photographs of children being sexually abused.
Then the police let it be known that during that summer, they were planning a crack-down on an unspecified ISP as a test-case (translation: making an example of them). Between the threats and pressure, the IWF was formed- a supposedly voluntary organisation but in fact a fake-charity and a quango. The IWF is a disgraceful secretive group with an awful corrupt history and no public oversight.
Now we see the same tactic has been used against Megaupload. They are using the threat of violence to coerce companies, how the British police did to create their own laws. The SOPA legislation did not go their way, so they have resulted to immoral tactics of repression.
From ACTA which is decided behind closed European chambers, the DEA which was pushed through undemocratically at alarming speed before elections, evil La Hadopi and now SOPA/PIPA in the US, there is nowhere to run. The nepotists are determined to push through these legislation. At all costs. This is not about piracy- it never was and will not do a thing. It is about control.
We have built a tool. For all their false talk of democracy we have for the first time in history reached this epochal moment. Self determination. If they truly believed in democracy, we could have a direct-democracy tomorrow. The tools exist. Instead we see this flagrant deception. It has become acceptable for politicians to cater to the greatest common denominator. We let them off the hook on the truth like Cameron pretending to be pro-NHS or Obama pretending to be Christian because it is for voters. Since when did it become acceptable to lie! Now today we see this limp-wristed hand wringing by the US president about how he will veto SOPA. Oh shut up.
Was it Gordan Brown who said that voting levels were dangerously low in the below-30s because youngsters today are apolitical. He wanted mandatory attendance for voters. No, we are not apolitical, we are sick of your lies and deceit. This generation is probably more political than any generation in history. In the 80s, only 5% of people in the US were members of organisations. In the 90s, 70% of Americans belonged to some kind of organisation. People are mobilising and prescient of issues.
Libel law is atrociously bad in the UK. Payouts are 10 times greater than in main-land Europe and you get a situation where billionaires use law firms like Carter-Ruck to keep news publishers (which are poor) in court and bleed them dry. Time magazine did an undercover piece of reporting and was sued for libel. They won the case but it ended up costing them $1 million. That’s effectively a fine of $1 million for undercover journalism.
Of course when the law is broken, what do we do? Make more laws! That is why California has brought in anti-SLAPP legislation.
Patent law is so stupid and I won’t even go there.
Copyright is fascist. I find it revolting that
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
Do not stand for this flagrant abuse of our farcical democracy!
If it's farcical, then surely abuse of it isn't a big deal? Kind of like making fun of a clown.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like MegaUpload was some kind of charity ... CEO seemed to be making money hand-over-fist.
All that proves is that MegaUpload was providing value to people.
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
The RIAA still makes money hand over fist.
Hey man, they lose money all the time, have you seen their accounting records?
Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
no-one chose to pay the MPAA for their services.
Sony did.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
So I assume you'd see the same parallel with drug dealers?
Yeah, honestly, I would. The only reason why they make the money they do is because drugs laws are retarded; they ruin the lives of simple users, do nothing to stop actual drug use or the cost of drug use on society, and foster organized crime. Even in places where the penalty for possession is death or life imprisonment, people get caught smuggling drugs constantly.
If they legalized drugs and regulated them, they could take the criminal element out of the equation, put the proceeds towards treatment as opposed to incarceration, and actually make people's lives better, but the DEA and CIA make far too much money off of drugs and the war on drugs for that to ever happen.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, I don't give a rip how they made money, even if it was all from blatant piracy. To me, the problem is that the US has no legal authority to arrest people living and working in a foreign country, who have never set foot in the US, no matter what they did. I don't care if they were grinding up kittens and using slave labor; it's the responsibility of the country they're in to police their activity, not the US arresting them for breaking laws in a country they've never been in.
If you (plural, general) disagree, then you need to fly yourself to Iran and turn yourself in for breaking their laws, as I'm sure you've broken some of their laws. And you need to send your wife and daughter to some village in Afghanistan to be stoned to death for not covering themselves in public.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
"Whatever you might think of the case itself, your outrage over the method of the arrest is a little misplaced - we have mutual extradition agreements with many countries."
It's not misplaced, these extradition agreements were set up under pressure from the US to allow extradition of terror suspects and so forth after 9/11.
Now the US is using them to extradite for things that aren't even illegal in the home country, and arguably not even in the US either.
This is why in the UK there's so much uproar about the extradition treaty being one-sided, in theory it's actually not, but in practice it is because whilst the UK only asks for extradition of, for example, American citizens who have committed murder whilst in the UK, or joint British-American citizens who have committed say fraud, whilst in the UK, America is requesting extradition for British teenagers who have run websites deemed legal in Britain.
The fact is, America is abusing the system well beyond what it was intended for.
"I would sure hope that US law enforcement (assuming they investigated and agreed there was enough evidence to prosecute) could get the cooperation of the government of the foreign country where the thieves lived and have them extradited for trial here."
Why would they have to be extradited? why couldn't they face justice in their home country?
There is something unusual here, just like there's something unusual with the case of the guy from Sheffield in the UK last week - these people are facing extradition despite doing nothing illegal in their home country, to the point that even the police in their home country saw no point pressing charges. In this particular case there's a big problem - the extradition treaty does say the act must be illegal in both countries, yet here in the UK we've had an idential case (the Oink case) where the guy was found not guilty of any wrongdoing, yet this case was completely ignored by the presiding judge in favour of a completely different, but largely irrelevant case that did justify extradition - obviously there is something fishy going on there, it may be incompetence, or it may be corruption, but something is not right- I wouldn't be surprised to find it's the same in these other cases too.
For what it's worth, in that case the FBI was personally involved, they were present when the kid's computers were seized at his house. I'd be amazed if the FBI wasn't present during these nesw raids too, so sure they may not have power of arrest, but they were certainly at the scene dictating what they wanted in at least this one case.
Now you can argue it's the fault of the host countries for allowing this, and I'd agree to an extent, but the reality is America does have power in the world and there are only so many things you can piss it off over before you risk suffering economic isolation. When America abuses it's power like this it can be hard for countries to say no. With America's power comes responsibility, but it's abusing that right now.
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Irrelevant. They're located outside the US, therefore US law does not apply to them. If you disagree, you need to fly yourself to Iran to be charged with breaking some of their laws, as I'm sure you have.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
So, let's stack the deck your way.
Let's assume that there is no NZ law supporting copyright (false).
Let's assume that there is no NZ law against apropriating the electronic data of other for your own use without consent (false).
Let's assume that their business was entire conducted in NZ (false, heck, servers were confisacated in the US).
But, for the sake of argument, let's assume all of those are actually true instead. Ready?
You still lose. The whole point of extradition laws is that you agree to transfer people who are found to be criminals by another government to that governemnt's control. Iran is a stupid counterexample; we don't have an extradition agreement with them. Many countries have limits to extradition - for example, some will not extradite their own citizens to the US for crimes which the US permits capital punishment. There might even exist countries which will only extradite people who have also performed criminal acts in their current nation (by that nation's standard).
In any case, those special exemptions to reality that I made for you above? They don't actually apply.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Copyright in itself is a fine idea, it is just that in the American system it has been perverted and corrupted.
Which is the American system.
The trick is to make it work for you long enough to get away with it or make enough money to influence legislation to work on your behalf.
For a little fun, try guessing where we'll be in terms of these 'rights' in another 10 years.
Dateline Russia: US forces have launched missiles on most major Russian cities and beachheads are established in the Baltic and along the Pacific, with the plan to push on to Moscow as soon as possible as the Hollywood Backed Government of the United States strives to overthrow the unjust Russian Regime which dared to declare 'Fair Use' with every incident of Copyright Violation.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Constitutionally limited democracies work.
Name one.
What's begun? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's begun? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems pretty ridiculous to me.
I was in the middle of downloading old One Tree Hill episodes, when megauppload got yanked. Will I suddenly go out and buy the DVDs??? Ha! Not likely. The show was fun to watch when it was free, but I'm sure as hell not going to pay for it.
I'll go find a different form of entertainment, like watch Free TV over my antenna, goof-off on youtube, or go read a book.
The RIAA/MPAA just doesn't get it. They are NOT losing money because most of us never had any intent of buying their shit in the first place
.
Re:What's begun? (Score:5, Funny)
Dude you forgot to click 'reply anon'.
Now everybody knows you watch that crap. It's your fault they make more of it.
Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
and still Anonymous achieves nothing for their effort.
Re:That'll showem (Score:5, Insightful)
What law was MegaUpload breaking? They were compliant with the DMCA, from what I understand. They were simply a file repository for their users.
Re:That'll showem (Score:5, Informative)
".. They were compliant with the DMCA, from what I understand.."
Apparently not, try ars technica for what these scum were really up to
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/why-the-feds-smashed-megaupload.ars [arstechnica.com]
Re:Not Anonymous.. (Score:5, Informative)
Link warning: opening this will max your internet connection to load certain websites from the title, so don't open it unless that is your intention.
Re:Calm down everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
Got a light?