NSA CS Man: My Tracking Algorithm Was 'Twisted' By the Government 267
decora writes "Crypto-mathematician Bill Binney worked in the Signals Intelligence Automation Research Center at the NSA. There, he worked on NSA's ThinThread program; a way to monitor the flood of internet data from outside the US while protecting the privacy of US citizens. In a new interview with Jane Mayer, he says his program 'got twisted. ... I should apologize to the American people. It's violated everyone's rights. It can be used to eavesdrop on the whole world. ... my people were brought in, and they told me, "Can you believe they're doing this? They're getting billing records on US citizens! They're putting pen registers on everyone in the country!"'"
Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'd say you'd be better off with +5 informative, just in case they're listening.
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I am sure they are. (listening) If they have those capabilities, why not make a hyperactive spyder to run about checking for key phrases? Catalog what it finds and produce a report to whomever or whatever is in charge. At some point, I would imagine having the A.I. take charge if it already hasn't, would help sift through this kind of horrible exposure for them.
It/they will check every post/link/comment and evaluate it for threat level, after they have establish who you are. If you are of the proper threat
mefi (Score:2)
There is a much better link fest on this subject over at metafilter [metafilter.com], maybe more informed comments too. ;)
Re:mefi (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Oh? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm shocked that we haven't launched prosecutions of most of the Bush Administration over its mis-handling of everything related to security and the Constitution.
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I'm shocked that we haven't launched prosecutions of most of the Bush Administration over its mis-handling of everything related to security and the Constitution.
Just because something is unconstitutional doesn't mean that the perpetrator performed a criminal (and hence, prosecutable act). Plus, I gather Obama doesn't want to establish any traditions that might put himself at risk.
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How about assassination without trial?
I think it'd be pretty easy to demonstrate that Osama bin Laden, by himself, was a valid war target. And bin Ladin doesn't play by Geneva Conventions rules so he doesn't get those protections.
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we're not at war
Awful lot of shooting in at least two countries for a non-war.
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm shocked that we haven't launched prosecutions of most of the Bush Administration...
So am I, but then we'd have to prosecute most of the Obama administration, which has continued the same policies. And I say that with shame as a lifelong Democrat.
Barack Obama - best Republican president so far.
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Barack Obama - best Republican president so far.
He's nowhere near the best Republican: Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower all come out way ahead of him. And all of those guys would be branded as complete and utter loonies in current US politics, especially their views on class, corporations and taxes. Heck, there's a good argument that Ronald Reagan wouldn't be accepted within the current Republican Party, because he allowed for some tax increases in the 1980's.
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I never voted for him (nor for McSame), but Obama in my mind really shows how stupid voters are, though the final and real test will be if they re-nominate him in 2012. I have little hope they'll nominate someone else, judging by the comments I've seen by other Democrats, including one friend of mine who defends everything Obama does. I'm glad there's some Democrats like yourself who haven't drunk the kool-aid, but from what I'm seeing, most of them have, and it's pathetic. People who call themselves "li
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Sitting presidents do not need a nomination to run for a second term.
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I never voted for him (nor for McSame), but Obama in my mind really shows how stupid voters are, though the final and real test will be if they re-nominate him in 2012.
Who else are they gonna nominate? It's pretty much Obama by default because there's nobody worth voting for that's gonna run.
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+ much better veneer of respect for rule of law
- revolting social policies
----------------
= Obama
He opposes most of the Bush administration's appalling social politics, he appears to at least not be certifiably insane regarding the economy, and he does a much better job of pretending to respect the rule of law.
It tells you how low standards have fallen that, even after looking at the things that are between bad and inexcusable (Failure to prosecute wall st. for massive fraud leading to 2008 co
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If you want to understand US politics, it's often good to look at the beta test area that is England (Scotland and NI are increasingly doing their own thing):
Thatcher: best Reaganite.
Blair: best Thatcherite.
Clegg: best opposition.
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It's a bit like the treatment of Pinochet. Yes, nasty dude. Yes, dictator. But he did hand over power to a democratically elected government. If the only way out for a former dictator is in a pine box, guess wha
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There's a difference, however.
In Pinochet's case, he handed power over to a government totally unlike his, and which was democratically elected.
In America, we never hand power over to a different government. It's all the same. We just change the guy at the top every four years, but there's no real difference between him and the last guy. Basically, after 8 years on the job, he's ready to retire in comfort, and passes the job over to one of his hand-picked successors, whom the media has complicitly gotten
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Did it ever occur to you that perhaps once you get elected to be president, it becomes a little clearer why things are done the way they are done?
That's occurred to me, yes, but that doesn't explain any of Obama's actions. Keeping the wars going in the mid-east isn't helping anyone but the corporations, and it's only creating more enemies for us there. We've propped up corrupt dictators before countless times, and it's never resulted in a strong, democratic nation to be friends with. How many times are w
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Informative)
Or, you know, Dick Cheney's commission of what we considered war crimes when the Germans and Japanese did it in the 1940's. It's an open-and-shut case: We have video footage and transcripts [go.com] of him telling the world all about the crimes he committed on national television.
Don't forget, though, we need to Look forward, not backward [youtube.com]. And they hate us for our freedoms [youtube.com]. It has nothing to do with committing crimes with impunity [bbc.co.uk], killing children and civilians [youtube.com], or supporting [youtube.com] dictators [wsws.org] in their country.
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Why would Obama want to do anything to hurt his good buddy Bush? In case you haven't noticed, Obama is doing everything almost exactly like Bush, and in some cases much worse: Bush never prosecuted any NSA whistleblowers, while Obama, who on the campaign trail praised whistleblowers, is prosecuting more of them than any administration in history: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/11/136173262/case-against-wikileaks-part-of-broader-campaign [npr.org]
Obama is even worse on the Constitution than Bush was; he's not going to p
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Nuremberg is the legal precedent.
Why is it so bad, anyway? (Score:3)
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I have to agree. If Americans don't want to be spied on then they should also be opposed to spying on foreigners as well.
Similarly, if Americans are upset that American soldiers are dying in war then I would hope that they're equally upset that foreign soldiers are dying. The idea that Americans are somehow better than other people is an outdated notion.
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I have to agree. If Americans don't want to be spied on then they should also be opposed to spying on foreigners as well.
It's an interesting contradiction. The American people have the rights they have because they demand them from their government, but foreigners can't really demand anything from the US government because it's not their government...
Screw it, it works for us! wait..
The idea that Americans are somehow better than other people is an outdated notion.
You're just talking about nationalism, every country that fields an army has it. You just hear about Americans doing it because either you're an American, or because our media is so loud, or because your media pays attention to what we're doing
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Yep... this is why I don't work for the NSA, despite being fully qualified and in need of a job.
For me it was just a lack of redheads in the office.
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why shouldn't I work for the N.S.A.? That's a tough one, but I'll take a shot.
Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never met, never had no problem with, get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Oh, send in the Marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes back to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile, he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And, of course, the oil companies used the skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them, but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, of course, and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the fuckin' job interviews, which sucks 'cause the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin', 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat, the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure fuck it, while I'm at it why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.
Re:Oh? (Score:4, Informative)
Why shouldn't I work for the N.S.A.?....
Or say a coded message nobody else can break comes across your desk, you crack it, and discover it details the execution of the largest terrorist attack on US soil to date. You immediately communicate it to your superiors, they send in the G-men who grab the perpetrators red-handed with the dirty bomb that was set to kill tens of thousands. We never hear about it. Thanks NSA. That's what happens on TV every week.
Or you identify a massive illegal warrantless wiretapping campaign against American citizens, blow the whistle, and face 35 years in prison. That is what happened in referenced article...
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Or you identify a massive illegal warrantless wiretapping campaign against American citizens, blow the whistle, and face 35 years in prison. That is what happened in referenced article...
I didn't feel quite as bad about it when I saw that he volunteered to be an undercover agent in a drug bust in his high school.
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sound familure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw [youtube.com]
Re:Not a surprise to anyone who isn't a gov employ (Score:4, Interesting)
The people who run the show at the NSA are not idiots. They know how to work with geniuses who might have a moral objection to spying on Americans. They know how to convince people that their work will only be used against foreigners, and how to get those people to put as much effort into their work as possible. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that most NSA mathematicians and computer scientists are aware of how their work is actually being used, except in rare cases where it is reported in the mass media (like the wiretapping scandal).
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I met an NSA recruiter once, too. Wasn't my area, but I thought it would be fun to talk to them. She made it sound like it was going to be like a movie, or a CSI show. Wasn't my field (engineer), so I didn't much care. Kind of funny, though.
In other news (Score:5, Insightful)
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those bullets were on the street.. he must have fallen on them.
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That's what makes it an accidental suicide, duh.
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The coroner said it was the worst case of suicide he had ever seen.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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The more you learn about what really goes on in the U.S., the more you realize how closely it resembles ancient Rome.
Corrupt? What's amazing is that the people actually believe that our leaders *aren't* corrupt by default.
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The more you learn about what really goes on in the U.S., the more you realize how closely it resembles ancient Rome.
Corrupt? What's amazing is that the people actually believe that our leaders *aren't* corrupt by default.
They don't? I don't know anyone who doesn't believe they are corrupt. But for some reason, lots of people want the government to run more and more things for us.
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If by "more and more things" you're referring to e.g. healthcare and internet access, the only other option would be to have them run by massive corporations. We can debate all day which would be worse... at least government officials can potentially be voted out.
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The only reason corporations can no longer be held to account through complete legal dissolution is because of the politicians and those they appoint. Then again, the root fault for those politicians is the people who elected them.
No matter who is in control, the fault rests with the masses. They get what they deserve. Unfortunately, those who don't agree get what everyone else deserves, too.
Either politicians or corporations can "potentially" be voted out (votes or money, if the difference matters to you),
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No matter who is in control, the fault rests with the masses. They get what they deserve.
As having the most powerful military and economy in the history of the human race, the American public also has a responsability to the rest of the world. Your comment could make sense for a small country that has very limited outside influence, but not for the US.
The choices of the US electorate have very far ranging repercussions indeed. The mortgage crisis and subsequent economic turmoil caused by it being a prime example of America's poor choices screwing the whole world over.
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Are you arguing the fault does not ultimately rest with the populace, or that they are getting more (or less) than they deserve? I limited my assumption regarding to which you were referring, since those are the two possibilities from the quote. I suppose it could mean something else as well...
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Re:In other news (Score:4, Informative)
This was a test of inference, to see whether or not you have aspergers.
You tested positive. I'm so sorry.
Re:In other news (Score:5, Funny)
Binney had been acting strangely in recent weeks, according to unnamed sources. Reports of paranoid rants about "government monitoring everyone" were a common theme among associates.
Binney was found wearing nothing but a bathrobe and a cockring, although investigators found several hundred dollars sewn into his bathrobe, as well as two phone numbers - one for "Belle du Jour Exotic Dance Palace" and the other to "Dave's 24 Hour Falafel Delivery". Investigators also found a "huge" porn stash in his apartment, and several copies of porn star Ron Jeremy's auto-biography, "Ron Jeremy: The Hardest (Working) Man in Showbiz".
What disturbed investigators most, however, was a hidden cache of 73 cases of Zima. "What could one man possibly need with that much Zima?," said one bewildered and slightly shaken-looking young investigator. Older investigators are wondering about the significance of the number 73.
Binney was quoted as saying, "I'm not dead yet!" but we were unable to confirm that at press-time.
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heya,
I might be too young, but was that a movie reference(s)?
Hmm, or is 73 meant to be 23, as in Jim Carrey's film?
Cheers,
Victor
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Not sure if you're serious or not, but it's "The Number 23".
Re:In other news (Score:5, Funny)
In other news, rape charges were brought against Bill Binney today, he has also openly admitted he is a homosexual, a pedophile, and an atheist. His wife has also left him because he has suffered from severe psychological disorders for several decades.
+5 Propaganda machine.
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Re:In other news (Score:5, Insightful)
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So close. Actually, it's being reported the he was found dead just an hour ago on the sidewalk outside his apartment from apparent asphalt poisoning.
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... cryptologist Bill Binney was found dead today in his New York apartment the victim of an apparent accident.
I think you need to give the NSA more credit than that. If they want him to be ignored, they'll work something so that he seems crazy or corrupt.
Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. (Score:4, Informative)
he U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Weapons investors want war all the time. Financial institutions get rich.
Yes, we were warned about this a very long time ago. The term used was the "military-industrial complex". The fear was that its interests would become better represented by government than any interests of the people. Sometimes all you have to do is read the handwriting on the wall and they will call you "prophet".
Consequences (Score:2)
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Maybe he is one of the few people out there that actually give a fuck about the constitution.
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He's 67 and in poor health. He may figure there's little they can do to him.
Well duh (Score:2)
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All I've got to say to this is "Well duh.. what the hell did you think they would do with it, Bill?"
Catch terrorists. What do you think he was told when he was working on the project, that they were planning to spy on Americans?
Pen registers (Score:5, Informative)
Twisted? (Score:3)
Sounds like its working just as designed.
Re:Twisted? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm.
I designed a gun.
No, no, no! You're supposed to point it away from you.
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Hmm.
I designed a gun.
No, no, no! You're supposed to point it away from you.
Correction: You're supposed to point it away from me.
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Sounds like its working just as designed.
Not very good, though... they are still searching for anything related on how those cables got uploaded to Wikileaks (i.e. there's still hope).
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dunno, seems it's working better than possible, or at least he thinks it is(sure, it tracks, but what and how? my erratic speech patterns? my ssl connections that happen to pass via usa? sounds like a system that just gets more expensive as days go by, and like stasi all choices would need to be done by a human at some point).
if the billing data exists within usa, it's accessible by the usa goverment, doh. but monitoring intelligently everyone's random bits, bullshit. and by the way if you're worried about
the NSA is violating the constitution? (Score:2)
What, did they think they could do that and get away with it?
"Well, YES."
I hope this has been informative. (Score:2)
Hopefully people will learn from this and avoid similar mistakes in the future. I am reminded of the professor [wikipedia.org] from Atlas Shrugged.
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Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
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I was referring to the scientist.
That's GREAT (Score:4, Informative)
For some reason US citizens always only think of themselves. Personally, I think it is great that they treat themselves as they do other human beings on the planet. It may bring some hard needed reflections on how technology is abused (but I'm not holding my breath).
Coulda Saved Him the Trouble (Score:2)
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More like A Beautiful Mind
You do realize a lot of these cryptographers are borderline psychotic while they are employed by agencies such as the NSA, and eventually progress into genuine mental illness.
From TFA:
"Binney, who is six feet three, is a bespectacled sixty-seven-year-old man with wisps of dark hair; he has the quiet, tense air of a preoccupied intellectual. Now retired and suffering gravely from diabetes, which has already claimed his left leg, he agreed recently to speak publicly for the first tim
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Specifically, this scene [youtube.com].
Last paragraph sums it up nicely. (Score:5, Insightful)
The Bush people have been let off. The telecom companies got immunity. The only people Obama has prosecuted are the whistle-blowers.
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Room 641A (Score:5, Interesting)
Who knows about how this stuff works besides people like us and telecom people? Even this technician at AT&T didn't know exactly what was going on. Funny enough, the discovery came about because he wanted to make sure the people working in this room were working according to CWA union rules. The unions - the last remnants of ordinary worker's organization and input into a company, which is now almost totally under the control of the top corporate management and ownership, and apparently, the government and its spy agencies.
As far as people saying this is to keep Americans safe from foreign terrorists - is that why Nixon had his guys break into Democratic headquarters at the Watergate? Is that why Clinton had the FBI send him various political opponents files, or Sandy Berger was sneaking documents out of the National Archives? Or why Martin Luther King had his rooms bugged by the FBI, when what he wanted was to non-violently work for the right to vote - a right blacks theoretically had under the Constitution? In 2006 a movie called "The Lives of Others" came out, condemning the Stasi in communist East Germany for creating a police state. While American critics feel good about themselves condemning the apparatus of a police state from ancient history, one is growing in the phone companies of America. Before 2001-2003, the US did not have an internal Stasi-like phone system - now it does. There's no reason to be hyperbolic about it, it is just that the government and corporate telecommunications monopolies are attempting to remove a right to privacy and freedom we once had.
Re:Room 641A (Score:4, Informative)
Thanks for that. Watching the PBS Frontline episode [pbs.org] on that whole thing now.
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"In 2006 a movie called "The Lives of Others" came out, condemning the Stasi in communist East Germany for creating a police state"
Not really; it merely depicted a loosely fictionalised East Germany. The story and character studies were quite enjoyable but really very little of substance was stated about the Stasi; nor did the movie intend to. It was a mood piece.
Final condemnation of the Stasi, and American plutocracy (in particular recent Presidents and their puppeteers) will come from histories, jus
Judge (Score:2)
If he (or any of his coworkers) thought the NSA was doing something illegal, they should have gone to the judge, not to the journalists.
My defense (Score:2)
I've become too boring for anyone to care. Not on purpose, I just don't care enough that much about anything important besides my family. Yeah, I still vote. I'll write an occasional letter to the paper. I've even written my Congress/Senate critters. Does any seem to make any difference? Nope. I got one, just one, reply where the staffer actually read my letter and wrote back something not in form letter fashion. Bill still passed anyway. Bleh.
Blame where blame is due (Score:2)
Thanks, Bush.
And thanks, Obama, for continuing it.
oh fuck off (Score:3, Insightful)
Green? Still relatively useful as a tool because people mean shit compared to the planet.
you dont need to make things off of your ass if you cant find anything against a particular ideology.
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there is no case of capitalism providing anything other than a hierarchical exploitation environment, but only for cases in which there are exploitable frontiers - india and colonies for britain in 18-19th century, and american west for america in 19th century.
immediately after the west had been exploited america had built the white fleet and embarked on colonization and acquisition of markets to fuck the people in them, so that they can profit.
and if your
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Anarchist?
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The only people Obama has prosecuted are the whistle-blowers.
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No, but I'm sure the President can be dissolved by NSA deed.
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Renounce your US citizenship, once there are no US citizens they will stop monitoring them.
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who in their right mind would thing for more then 1 second it would NOT be used to spy on the US
Who works for the NSA without trusting that the US government aims to protect the rights of its citizens? It takes a certain mentality to actually agree to government work, particularly as a cryptographer -- you are barred from working on cryptography as a civilian after being exposed to cryptographic secrets. To accept that means you believe that you are doing the right thing.
Now, I agree, any outside observer could have told you that the government would turn that technology against its own citizen
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Fuck that. My rights are my rights. If the government that my ancestors put into place is no longer protecting but instead infringing them, then it is my choice to consider that government illegitimate and act accordingly. If that means flouting the law, what do i care? If that means being attacked, slandered or killed and my name sullied as a lunatic or a terrorist, so be it.
I will not take up arms against any human except in self-defense, but I cannot stop another human from taking up arms against me.
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