The French Government Can Now Censor the Internet 419
Psychophrenes writes "A new episode in French internet legislation — French ministers have passed a bill (original in French) allowing the government to add any website to a black list, which access providers will have to enforce. This black list will be defined by the government only, without requiring the intervention of the legal system. Although originally intended against pedo-pornographic websites, this bill is already outdated, as was Hadopi in its time, and instead paves the way for a global censorship of the 'French internet.'"
france sucks (Score:2)
I am french and at the moment everybody should leave this country for china.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I am french and at the moment everybody should leave this country for china.
Thanks for confirming French people are cowards!
Re:france sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Right behind the land of the brave, cowering and allowing their leaders to strip them of their liberty over a single terrorist attack that happened a decade ago.
Re: (Score:3)
Being the first in the race to the abyss is not really a good thing, ya know...
Re:france sucks (Score:4, Interesting)
I think China may actually be worse, but I am not sure, I can't get anyone their to comment.
Re:france sucks (Score:4, Funny)
I think China may actually be worse, but I am not sure, I can't get anyone their to comment.
That may be a good thing. Making contact with China only to get a lecture on the difference between 'there,' and 'their' would be embarrassing ;)
Re:france sucks (Score:5, Funny)
That may be a good thing. Making contact with China only to get a lecture on the difference between 'there,' and 'their' would be embarrassing ;)
Haha. These slashdotters are relentless with the grammar. I gotsed nailed yesterday for a small handful of mistakes which I will never make again.
I've heard of grammar nazis, but goatse-ing someone for poor grammar is rude.
Re:france sucks (Score:5, Funny)
They're just crazy with punctuation. Especially colons.
Re: (Score:3)
It's not just France. The US and most of Europe aren't any different in that respect. Being only slightly better than China seems to be the goal.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:france sucks (Score:4, Funny)
I too, but thanks to this, we now have an extremely effective rally cry...
"No Internet Blacklists No! You Don't Want To Be Like France, Do You?!"
Of course, the most impact it could possibly have is that they'd probably just implement a freedomwall instead of a firewall :-/
Je t'aime, au revoir! ;-)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes but U.S. citizens still have their guns, the French dropped theirs ~60 years ago :)
Re:france sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
No, US citizens have small guns.
The US government has *much* bigger guns.
Re:france sucks (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I am United Statsian
You're a what now? What the smeg is a "Statsian?" Sounds like a species on Star Trek.
Dude, I live in North America, and I'm not American. I don't know of a single North-American residing non-American that objects to residents of the USA referring to themselves as "Americans." You're American, dude. Just use the term and get over yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:france sucks (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Americans (Score:4, Interesting)
I suspect there are more than a few Hondurans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, El Salvadorians, Belizians, Costa Ricans, and Panamanians who would take exception to that statement
Have you been to any of those countries? When you travel down there, you'll see that they all proudly proclaim that they're part of "Central America." They puposely distance themselves from North or South America. For example, here's a Belizean license plate:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1AAaANrTdAM/SgHAxpUOqcI/AAAAAAAABKg/MVvHKJR7EWI/s400/belize.jpg [blogspot.com]
The C.A. on the plate stands for "Central America."
Re: (Score:2)
I am United Statsian
You're a whatnow? Which country is that from? The United States of Mexico is my first guess, though the United States of Brazil could fit, as well (in which case you really need to let that one go since it's been about 40 years since it was the official name of Brazil).
Re: (Score:3)
I think it would be pronounced United Station.
A person from Chalmette, LA is called a Chalmation (starts like Shall, ends like dalmatian)
A person from Violet, LA is called a Violation.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's not just France (Score:5, Informative)
It's not just France, though. There's also the Great Firewall of China, the Great Australian Firewall, the US Department of Homeland Security shutting down domains (with COICA in the works to make take-downs even easier), and probably others I'm not aware of.
The Internet was a nice experiment in global freedom of expression, but now that governments are catching up those freedoms are beginning to disappear.
Re: (Score:2)
I read this story and just wanted to go around yelling "freedom fries".
But then I was reminded that our government not only has attempted to get this in the past, they have manipulated ICANN to seize domains and pressured businesses into dropping services to sites they don't like.
Maybe I should just yell "potato sticks" instead.
Re: (Score:3)
I guess they decided to change it to just "Egalite, Fraternite" and drop the "Liberte" part, huh?
How long does it take... (Score:5, Insightful)
...that Wikileaks is on that list? Or similar sites?
Business as usual (Score:5, Insightful)
The business of government only expands in power and revenue throughout its lifetime, never willingly or permanently reducing power or revenue. History has proven this over and over again, to the point where one could argue that the entire objective of government is power and revenue.
I remain absolutely shocked that the common man doesn't consider this a giant red flag.
Re:Business as usual (Score:5, Insightful)
Governments are like nuclear power. If left unchecked they will kill a lot of people, screw up the neighborhood for generations and cause loss of standard of living for a lot other people. In the extreme, they can be used as a weapon and cause far more damage yet.
On the other hand, given enough containment and backup control systems, they can be the most powerful source of help in everyday life to a lot of people.
So where the challenge truly lies is in engineering such containment and control (see for example: the US Constitution) and then maintaining it. But when citizens willing to fight for their rights to the death are replaced with the likes of lardy American Idol fans, there is simply no one left to look after rusty, sieve-like containment vessels.
And so, unfortunately, most governments on the planet today are in various stages of performing their Chernobyl thing.
Re: (Score:3)
Unfortunately everyone stopped caring about those controls in the late 1980's, and now a runaway chain reaction is underway.
Re: (Score:2)
No, not everyone. There are still a few control rods in the pile, but that's not enough to moderate everything.
Re: (Score:2)
60s-70s surly? or maybe Vietnam.
More bloody likely in 1933.
Re: (Score:3)
there's something beautiful about that analogy.
now if we could only get all politicians sealed inside an airtight lead box.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Business as usual (Score:5, Funny)
How else are we going to pay for the wonderful health care we'd get from the very same government that gave us the TSA?
Just think of the benefits. Apparently from next year Americans are going to get a free prostate exam from the TSA every time they fly.
Re: (Score:2)
Just think of the benefits. Apparently from next year Americans are going to get a free prostate exam from the TSA every time they fly.
About time they got to enjoy the same treatment as the rest of us.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In the U.S., we don't get health care from the government. We don't even get health insurance from the government, unless you fall under Medicare or Medicaid.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
In the U.S., we don't get health care from the government. We don't even get health insurance from the government, unless you fall under Medicare or Medicaid.
No, you won't get health care from the government, or insurance. Nope. Thanks to the law, you'll have to buy it for yourself, even if you don't want/need it. Of course, it was just so gov't actuaries could claim that most/all of the populace is insured and it looks good on paper. Thanks Barry.
Re:Business as usual (Score:5, Insightful)
You're a fucking moron. Its that simple.
"even those who dont want/need it"
Who the fuck doesnt want or need health insurance?
Everyone needs it... you may not need it now, but you may need it tomorrow when you finally get that lump in your neck looked at.
Re:Business as usual (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope, in the US the government merely forces private entities to provide health care to anyone whether they can pay for it or not.
Re: (Score:2)
That's why Americans created a republic instead. The more "democratic" it becomes, the less free it is.
Re: (Score:3)
Will everybody stop with this crap? A country can be a republic and a democracy, it can be either, and it can be neither.
Depends... (Score:2)
...are you measuring time before the blacklist goes live or not?
There they go again... (Score:2)
Re:There they go again... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't you mean "langue franque"?
Seriously though, French hasn't been the lingua franca since WWII. 60 years is a long time to be pissed off about something and waiting to do something about it.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
They're French, what did you expect? It takes a while to organize a protest when your people are only working 30 hours a week.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:There they go again... (Score:5, Funny)
What were all those "The south will rise again" bumper stickers ...
Viagra ads.
Re: (Score:2)
Remind me. What were all those "The south will rise again" bumper stickers I saw when I visited the USA?
Dukes of Hazard promotional stickers from the movie.
Re: (Score:2)
Mexico is still pissed that we took California and Texas from them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
English is the language used for global commerce, and has been for quite some time. I live in South America and work with companies from all over the world, and I do not recall anyone every asking if I could speak French.
My suggestion: time for you to learn Mandarin.
Re:There they go again... (Score:5, Interesting)
pissed off that it's no longer a global superpower, and pissed off that it's language is no longer considered the "lingua franca" for global commerce.
They have the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and their economy, while unstable, is still ranked 9th in the world. That instability is caused by transitioning to a more capitalistic economic model. And before you go bad-mouthing France, I'd like to point out that the average French citizen has a higher cut of GDP than the average United States citizen, despite the economic crisis for one simple reason: The French didn't bend over and take it in the ass at the behest of corporate interests who sold out their future for a few SUVs and a bank-owned home that's not worth half of what it was paid for.
Frankly, France has a rosier future than the United States does -- they're making a difficult transition that will improve the standard of living for its citizens in the long run, at the cost of some short term pain. The United States is making a transition for the worse because our government has systematically chosen short term gain at the expense of sustainability and long-term growth.
Re: (Score:3)
The contention is that a larger part of US GDP goes to the rich.
French GDP/capita is smaller, but more evenly spread, the average Froggie gets a bigger part of a smaller pie.
US Median family income (2009.PPP): $49,777 (source Wikipedia)
French mediam family income: $58,000 (source, random shit on the web probably wrong).
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It fits the character of France (Score:2)
While this is a rather stupid step to take, I'm going to be very interested in how it plays out. They'll fail, of course, but perhaps this will spur faster development of distributed DNS or altern
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Says the man who has never heard of tor or any other form of proxy it seems.
Re: (Score:2)
French people, download Tor (with the documentation and source) now before it's too late!
Re: (Score:2)
I Wonder (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
He's on that list, genius, and is given as the second example of the First Rule of French Warfare (France only wins when not led by a Frenchman).
Oops (Score:5, Insightful)
There goes that "Liberté" thing you fought for. Better luck next time.
Re: (Score:2)
I disagreed with the American's "Freedom Fries" response to France's reluctance over the Iraq war. But to hear the French hindering French freedoms grates a little.
Circumventing in 3... 2... 1... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, but they will use this to make proxies illegal, in 3...2...1...
I can't believe the French just gave in on this (Score:5, Funny)
Where is that legendary fighting French spirit?
Re:I can't believe the French just gave in on this (Score:5, Insightful)
it's not a labor issue. the french will burn down their cities on any minor issue having to do with labor laws
likewise, americans don't consider themselves free until everyone is walking around with unconcealed submachine guns. labor issues? not so much a concern
all nationalities have their quirky interpretation of what "free" means
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
(citation needed)
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit.
Suppose you have your SMG. What would it take for you to take and use it against the government? I bet it's something very, very big. Now for anything less important than that, what does it matter that you have your SMG even if you're not going to use it?
Short of the government deciding to institute Sharia or something similarly huge, an armed revolt by the population is extremely unlikely. That's quite a lot of things they can do to really screw up your life, without that weaponry helping in the s
Re:I can't believe the French just gave in on this (Score:5, Interesting)
it's worse than that. if the usa ever does fall under the boot of fascism, that fascism will start with a committed group of heavily armed partisans. when i hear about heavily armed ideologues running around the woods, i don't think of protection from fascism, i think of the soil in which fascism grows
Re:I can't believe the French just gave in on this (Score:4, Insightful)
Words are just fine to fight fascism, right up to the point when there is some fascism to fight. Civil society/democracy does not apply to the fascists, so you need to reach for the guns which you melted down because words were your salvation within your (now rapidly shrinking) democracy.
A soviet Ghandi and his followers would all have ended up in the gulag.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
While I appreciate your point, the number of armed Americans didn't stop the Patriot Act, the TSA and their junk-touching mission, Obamacare, and every other abomination that's come down the pipe in the last 10 years (or more).
Re:I can't believe the French just gave in on this (Score:4, Funny)
The government has SMG's?
It's a typo. The government has MSG. They cornered the market on tasty.
Re: (Score:2)
labor issues? not so much a concern
Not any more, but in decades before I was born, folks died over labor issues. How things change...
Who pays for this? (Score:3)
...add any website to a black list, which access providers will have to enforce.
I don't know how feasible this really is. Are they going to block encrypted and VPN traffic as well? Deep packet inspection to disallow the use of proxies? Denying access to DNS servers outside France? The government has essentially passed legislation to hold service providers accountable for something that, frankly, is impossible to impliment. If you are an internet service provider in France right now, I'd be seriously thinking of selling my stocks, cashing in, and getting the hell out now, before you lose your whole investment on a piece of government legislation destined to cause many, many judges to facepalm.
Re: (Score:3)
Are they going to block encrypted and VPN traffic as well? Deep packet inspection to disallow the use of proxies? Denying access to DNS servers outside France?
In the past few years working with DRM systems I've basically come to appreciate the 'mom rule'. Namely, if a technology's good enough to keep your mom from accessing data, then it's probably good enough --- meaning it'll keep 90+% of potential customers on the paying hook.
In this case, while my mom's excellent at typing nytimes.com into her brows
Re: (Score:2)
The thing about software and the Internet is that if enough people want it, but it is too difficult to do, it becomes easy to do. If there is demand, someone will make it trivially easy to bypass the filters.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know how feasible this really is. Are they going to block encrypted and VPN traffic as well? Deep packet inspection to disallow the use of proxies? Denying access to DNS servers outside France?
They don't have to block everyone from accessing it. They just have to block enough so that the average person won't come across it. Then make anyone who circumvents the blocks a criminal. Normal upstanding citizens aren't going to believe a criminal over their own government.
It doesn't have to be perfect,
Will they publish it ? (Score:2)
Will they publish the blacklist publicly ? If not, there's no telling what they could block, especially since there don't appear to be any checks or oversight.
Re: (Score:2)
Blacklists... (Score:3)
Allright boys and girls, lets all say it together.
Blacklists don't work. :)
Buying a new domain costs very little - especially if we're talking about child porn websites - which aren't meant to get millions of hits per day.
Now, lets wait until someone discovers that torrents may contain child porn. Then the circle will be complete.
singe rendu (Score:3)
Just go on QuatreChan and get Anonyme to threaten a DdSD (déni de service distribué) attack on all of France.
There is a saying (Score:2)
Locks are for honest people.
What this means here is that the dishonest will find a way to get around the wall, while honest websites that teh government decides to ban, right or wrong, remain hidden from French public view.
Analysis of Loppse 2 (Score:2)
Better than a machine translation...
http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number8.24/loppsi-2-french-law [edri.org]
the usual stalking horse (Score:5, Informative)
Once again a western government uses the drummed-up fear of pedophiles as a stalking horse to eradicate human liberty. The damnedest thing is that pedophiles are about as peaceful a group of people as can be found - but I suppose that is why the government has chosen this target. It's harder to crack down on minorities who are inclined and strong enough to strike back.
It's easier to hire the angry people to put down the peaceful people than the other way around, and get the angry people to accept the loss of freedom as "necessary" to the struggle.
A few facts about the bête noire du jour. [b4uact.org] Remember, the loss of your freedom depends on the people never learning the truth ... at least, until it is too late.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Umm, peaceful except for that whole assaulting and raping defenseless children part...
Re:the usual stalking horse (Score:4, Interesting)
First, pedophilia means an attraction to children. It has nothing to do with rape or molestation - and in fact, most cases of child rape are committed by persons who are not pedophiles. This is not only my opinion, but the opinion of many researchers and the FBI. Equating pedophiles and child molesters is like referring to all heterosexual men as rapists.
Even in the rare cases where actual pedophiles have had sexual contact with children, most bona fide researchers and law enforcement have observed that pedophiles almost never use violence. In contrast, research has found that those who are sexually violent against children are almost never attracted to the children - that is, they are not pedophiles.
Second, pedophilia is not a fetish. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. It is, as you say, not justifiable - just as being an American, or a European, or an African is not justifiable. These things just are.
Third, what makes people angry at pedophiles is a combination of ignorance, fear of the unknown, yellow journalism, xenophobia, and grandstanding politicians. The "pedophiles" that the public is angry at are not even pedophiles - two diametrically opposed groups have somehow been merged into one in the public mind - but it is very difficult to get the truth out.
The question is, once the truth comes out and the public realizes that there was never any serious threat from pedophiles, or terrorists, or illegal aliens, or whatever other bogeyman the politicians come up with to justify the loss of freedom - will it be too late?
The US does this same thing... (Score:5, Informative)
If they wanted to make Asprin a felony tomorrow, they could... and stores would have to comply in a hurry. It is not subject to Judicial review
Although on the surface it would seem like the two have not much to do with each other, drug convictions are a great way to imprison people and deny them their right to vote, which is perhaps more powerful than merely limiting free speech online.
The law isn't passed yet... (Score:5, Informative)
As terrible as the news is, there is still hope. The law isn't passed yet. The article was voted in the National Assembly (lower chamber). It still requires, before being a valid law :
1. A vote on the law as a whole in the lower chamber.
2. A vote on the article in the upper chamber (Senate).
3. A vote on the law as a whole in the upper chamber.
4. If the two versions are different, even a coma apart (which is almost always the case), a full new vote on each of the chambers.
5. A validation by the Constitutional Council.
Points 1. and 3. are very likely to succeed, saddly. But point 2., the vote on the article in the upper chamber can reasonably change the law, adding a validation by a judge for example. The UMP (Sarkozy's party) doesn't have absolute majority in the Senate, so they need to compromise with the center-right which may obtain that.
And then the validation by the Constitutional Council is unlikely, they censored the HADOPI (three-strike law for "illegal downloading"), stating clearly that Internet in the XXIest century is protected by the article 11 of the Declaration of Humans and Citizen Rights (which is part of our Constitution) : The free communication of thoughts and of opinions is one of the most precious rights of man: any citizen thus may speak, write, print freely, save [if it is necessary] to respond to the abuse of this liberty, in the cases determined by the law. , their interpretation being that abuse of this liberty, in the cases determined by the law can only be confirmed by a court after due legal process. It would surprise me for them to turn back on this stance, and allow Internet censorship without decision of a court.
But since the UMP has more friends than foes in the Constitutional Council, and that it is to protect the children will they will validate it :(
But anyway, it's still not a lost battle, and we are still fighting against the law.
Ah, yes... (Score:2)
Oh yeah France? Censor this: (Score:2)
You authoritarian frog-*******, ****-eating, ***-kissing morceaux de *****.
Oh damn. It works.
Now, if only... (Score:2)
Now, if only someone could "hack in", as the kids call it these days, and add all of the French government sites to this list, especially the no doubt web-facing browser-based administrative tool used to maintain this list...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
the French have forgotten their history, and are thus repeating it.
The French invented the guillotine once, they can do it again.
Suggestion: use lasers this time.