After Online Defamation Suit, Dismissal of Malicious Prosecution Claim Upheld 267
Christoph writes "I'm the Slashdot user who was sued for defamation (and six other claims) by a corporation over negative statements on my website. I prevailed (pro-se) in 2008. The court found the other side forged evidence and lied. In 2009, I sued the other party's lawyers for malicious prosecution/abuse of process (the corporation itself is dissolved/broke). One defendant had stated in writing their client was lying, but the trial court dismissed my claim for lack of evidence. I appealed, and this Tuesday the Minnesota Court of Appeals upheld the dismissal, completely ignoring the defendant's written admission (and other evidence). They further found it was not an abuse of process to sue to 'stop the publication of negative information and opinion.'"
Judges used to be lawyers (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is, you tried to sue a laywer. The funny thing about judges: they used to be lawyers. You remember that old joke claiming that sharks don't eat lawyers out of "professional courtesy"? Same goes for judges. You can sue a doctor, a corporation, or your ex-wife, fine, but if you sue a laywer the entire legal profession closes ranks and roots for the home team.
Re:Okay [sounds like a decent result] (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the lawyers, the sole piece of evidence the OP seems to have presented that the lawyers knew their clients were lying is a late-October 2007 note. This note was written well after the trial commenced. It doesn't indicate that the lawyers knew or had reason to know from jump-street that the clients were lying. It indicates only (if anything) that perhaps they were not aggressive enough in doing fact investigation or in terminating the litigation already underway.
Am I missing something? If not, the courts' decisions appear to be decent.
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Interesting)
What the hell were you charged with that your legal bills totaled up to six figures? I got charged with a felony in two different jurisdictions and had to deal with two different cases and my legal bills only came to around $8,000. Granted, we beat it BEFORE trial (thank god for the Grand Jury....) but it would not have accumulated to >$100,000 even if it had gone that far.
BTW, my lawyer saved my ass. I would not have walked away from my situation without a criminal record if I had tried to do it on my own. Don't trash the whole profession just because you hired a lousy legal team.
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Re:Okay. (Score:1, Interesting)
And it has far reaching implications.
They further found it was not an abuse of process to sue to 'stop the publication of negative information and opinion.'"
That line alone shows that they basically see suing people as a way to stop free speech - and that it should be allowed, even if the law isn't technically on their side. Basically, abusing the system to get people to stop saying things you don't like is considered legal.
Can you imagine how many people have been in a situation like Chris, but haven't had the money to go into a legal battle with them?
It sucks indeed.
IANAL, but why not contact the ACLU? I'd think they'd love to take up this case.
Re:Well done! (Score:2, Interesting)
Holy crap only $8000? I have spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past 7 years or so on 3 lawsuits and a handfull of other matters. The last civil case, which almost made it to trial cost me about $100,000 of legal fees.
Hell, I have a zoning issue that has cost me over $4,000 so far and we are very, very early along that one.
$250 - $350 an hour adds up mighty fast. It's like a hooker only the only person getting fucked is you.
How appropriate... the captcha is "lonely".
Re:It's really hard to win malicious prosecution (Score:3, Interesting)
Judges don't want the loser of every case suing for it.
Ain't that the truth.
In California there is a provision of the Civil Code of Procedure, Section 473(b) which permits a mandatory vacation of default of dismissal which results from attorney fault. If the attorney really screws up, the Court must grant this. The decisions of this is so that it reduces litigation that results from attorney malpractice.
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Here's what I said last time (Score:3, Interesting)
Who gives a shit. Chris runs a stock photos website. His business model is entirely money for jam and if ya can't get it, sue. Did you read the part of the judgment where it outlines the monetary demands and legal threats Chris made? This is classic stand-over copyright tactics and all these slashtards are applauding it because Chris has presented himself as being the little guy who took on the big corporation and won.
My opinion stands.. you're a copyright troll. If it wasn't for copyright law, no-one would ever give you a dime. That's the definition of non-fair trade to me.
Re:Well done! (Score:5, Interesting)
$8,000? Damn, that's great. Hey I agree, there are good lawyers, I just was unlucky enough to not know any. I didn't hire a team at all. I had FIVE individual lawyers, one when I was arrested, who I fired when he failed to challenge the search (which was laughable), then another when the feds came for me, and the state dropped the charges. Him I fired after he blew a bail hearing HARD. Fucking moron, he pulled out some forensic psychiatrist who started challenging the case merits in a bail hearing. Asshole got me held without bail in Feds. The AUSA had a field day...he was actually laughing.
I studied fed law for the four years I did in the feds and if I had known then what I know now, I never would have spent a night in jail. And I don't think my attorneys were stupid, just amoral. Hey, if you can get a guy off for a bad search after a day, you won't earn much. Better to have to "fight" and charge $75k.
Here's the worst part: I spent almost $300,000, and still plead out. From the Alan Ellis [alanellis.com] site:
"Nearly 94% of all federal criminal defendants will plead guilty. Of the remaining 6% who go to trial, as many as 75% will be convicted; thus 97% of all federal criminal defendants will be sentenced. 80% of defendants will receive jail or prison time." If the feds want you, you're theirs.
Re:Judges used to be lawyers (Score:5, Interesting)
Patently untrue. Case in point: legal malpractice suits, which are common and involve a lot of money: $4 billion per year back in 1995 [heinonline.org]. I assure you it's more today.
To the extent this guy got screwed it was because he tried to handle his case pro se. Just one little example of his mistakes: "The fact that I prevailed on all seven counts while representing myself in court pro-se further suggests they lacked probable cause." Whether someone is representing themselves or are represented by counsel is generally immaterial in Minnesota, as in most jurisdictions. "Pro se litigants are generally held to the same standards as attorneys." Heinsch v. Lot 27, Block 1 For's Beach, 399 N.W.2d 107, 109 (Minn. App. 1987).
Anyway, this is kind of a silly post for Slashdot. The plaintiff's appeals are not exhausted. He can make a motion for a rehearing, a rehearing en banc, and appeal to the Minnesota Supreme Court.
Re:Not too surprised (Score:3, Interesting)
He has to prove that the lawyers had ill intent for him. Defending their client, even while knowing he is lying, isn't against the rules, it just opens them up to the liability. But if they were pushing the issue because it allowed them to hurt the OP, then yeah, the should be held accountable.
Um, the trick is that the lawyers in question weren't defending anyone - they were representing the plaintiff in an attempt to win money/concessions from the defendant. And while a defense attorney is supposed to defend their client to the best of their ability, even they aren't allowed to outright lie to the court about something they know to be false.
That being said, I'm not sure if the OP would have prevailed at trial, but cases are supposed to be dismissed either because of facts that are not in dispute, or rules of law that require the case to be dismissed. If the only issue is that the facts are in dispute, that the whole purpose of a trial.
My biggest issue with this ruling is the judges statement that attempting to suppress protected speech is a legitimate use of the courts. This very much sounds to me like a legal maneuver to "protect" the interests of the lawyers by a) not acknowledging that they did something wrong and b) not taking away a source of revenue by discouraging lawyers from taking cases where they know their client is in the wrong...
Re:Tough Call (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an attorney, and I agree. If attorneys could rely on "professional courtesy" they wouldn't each pay thousands of dollars per year in malpractice premiums. There's no lack of legal malpractice suits, but I would say that attorney discipline, including disbarment, doesn't happen often enough. Just look at how long it took Jack Thompson to get disbarred.
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Re:Cry some more please (Score:1, Interesting)
My kingdom for a mod point... but alas I have none... Oh, no kingdom either... Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up there. You are being kind saying that trying to sue someone sans lawyer is at best naive. Judges used to be... (drum roll)... LAWYERS!!!
Yes, well, when they put on those robes and pick up that gavel, they're supposed to magically become utterly impartial and incorruptible paragons of logic, reason, and compassion.
Yeah, or something like that.
Re:Well done! (Score:4, Interesting)
Anecdotally, that would seem to be the case. A co-worker sat on a federal grand jury for a year. The feds bring EVERYTHING before the grand jury, even routine shit like immigration cases. A GJ hearing is only required for "capital or otherwise infamous crimes" per the Constitution so they don't have to, it is just how they work. He said they were always extremely well prepared, and the GJ handed out the indictments in every case. In almost every case he said he felt there was sufficient evidence had he been in trial he would have voted to convict (GJ has much lower standards of evidence needed). He said there were only one or two cases where he had any doubt about the person's guilt, and there was still enough evidence to return the indictment.
Now of course that doesn't mean all federal offices everywhere are the same, this is just anecdotal, but it is fairly compelling. It seemed they only brought things to trial when they were damn sure.
Part of the reason is that there just isn't a lot that ends up being a federal crime. They don't deal with a lot of the little shit, the "he said, she said" stuff you see in county courts. Most of their non-immigration cases tend to be much bigger, more involved, cases and thus have mountains of evidence. The immigration ones, well those are always clear cut: "Is the person a citizen? If not are they a resident alien? If not do they have legal permission to be in the country? If not then they are breaking the law and can be deported."
While I agree we want to carefully watch for abuses of the system and people being railroaded or forced to plead to things they didn't do, I don't see a high conviction/plea rate as a bad thing on the face of it. To me it could well indicate that they do their job, that innocent people, or even people who might be guilty but you aren't sure, are not charged. They only tend to bring charges when they are very sure. That is how it should work. People shouldn't be charged with a crime unless the prosecutor is sure they are guilty.
Re:Cry some more please (Score:3, Interesting)