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Argentine Government Orders Major ISP To Close 152

Posted by Soulskill from the pack-your-stuff-and-get-out dept.
Doctor Jonas writes "Argentine ISP Fibertel has been barred from continuing operations because of the dissolution of their status as a company after they were absorbed by Cablevisión of Argentina, now part of media conglomerate Grupo Clarín. The Minister of Planning, Julio de Vido, announced the measure, and said it was Grupo Clarín's own doing by having shut down the Fibertel company and turning it into a commercial brand, and that ISP licenses are not transferable after acquisitions from one company to the other. The Argentine opposition said the move was another attack on Grupo Clarín's standing and another part of the feud between them and President Cristina Fernández and her husband, former president Nestor Kirchner. Cablevisión has promised to go to the courts to overturn the decision, and the opposition seeks to protect Fibertel's continuing operations through a bill in Congress. More than a million households and businesses would need to change ISPs in merely 90 days, possibly strengthening the internet provisioning dominance of both Telefónica (subsidiary of the Spanish Telefonica) and Telecom."
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Argentine Government Orders Major ISP To Close More

Argentine Government Orders Major ISP To Close

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  • So what? (Score:5, Informative)

    by cachimaster ( 127194 ) on Saturday August 21, 2010 @10:45PM (#33329406)

    I'm one of the affected million and I will have to change ISPs. Fibertel used to throttle youtube all the time, but apart from that the service was good, if a little expensive. They are part of a huge news-controlling monopoly, broke the law, and they got what they deserve. There are many choices of broadband internet over here, so I basically don't give a sh*t.

    • There are many choices of broadband internet over here, so I basically don't give a sh*t.

      Good for the people affected.
      But it still doesn't seem like a smart move to piss off more than a million voters just to fuel a feud between two politicians.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by santix ( 1234354 )
      I totally agree. In this case the government just applied the law. It is questioned because the measure happened to be against a big group (they own a lot of media; TV, newspapers, radios...) which is opposed to the actual government. But that ISP was providing its services without a license totally aware of it. So in this case justice was served.
      • Hold it a second, you have to have a license to provide Internet access to people? And you are OK with that? You are OK with the government deciding who can and cannot be an ISP?

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by santix ( 1234354 )
          Yes, sure. They establish requirements as they would for anyone who wants to run a business. But it's not that they can say "Hey, I don't like your face, you don't get a license". In this case there was a merger a couple of years ago which was illegal and was the reason they took their license away (justice seldom works here and when it does it's real slow, that's why it took so long).
        • You think anyone in Europe or the US can just start throwing fiber without submitting to regulatory practices to be an ISP? ISPs are held to many legal standards in data retention and privacy and whatnot.
          • I am unaware of any licensing or regulatory requirements to be an ISP in the U.S.. There are some regarding running wires or other infrastructure, but any company that has access to the infrastructure to provide Internet service is allowed to do so without any further government intervention that I am aware of.

        • And you are OK with that? You are OK with the government deciding who can and cannot be an ISP?

          This may come as a bit of a surprise, but government isn't treated as "them" everywhere in the world. In some places we consider government to be an extension of "us". And yes, I do like ISP's and other companies that control infrastructure vital to the well-being of my country to be accountable to "us".

          • And you are OK with that? You are OK with the government deciding who can and cannot be an ISP?

            This may come as a bit of a surprise, but government isn't treated as "them" everywhere in the world. In some places we consider government to be an extension of "us". And yes, I do like ISP's and other companies that control infrastructure vital to the well-being of my country to be accountable to "us".

            That works fine until you are in the minority on some subject, then you have empowered the government to silence your opinion. See companies are already accountable to "us", if I don't like the behavior of a particular company, I don't do business with them.

    • So, what's the deal with the 1st lady (do you call them that there?) becoming president?
      I thought the various kennedies and then Bush and Bush Jr were bad enough, but a husband and wife switching off as president? Do you have term limits? Because it sounds like a really transparent way to get around a presidential term limit.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by tannnk ( 810257 )
        You may want to take a look at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner [wikipedia.org] "She won with 45.3% of the vote, a 22% lead over her nearest rival. This was the widest margin obtained by a candidate since civil rule was reinstalled in 1983, and avoided the need for a runoff election." "In 1995, Fernández was elected to represent Santa Cruz in the Senate. She was elected to the Chamber of Deputies in 1997, and in 2001, returned to the Senate." And I must say in Argentina there

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by santix ( 1234354 )
        Yes, we call them 1st Lady. There are term limits: 4 years and 2 consecutive administrations. But this goverment (wife and husband) is not known for its transparency. They are agressive, rely on patronage and are constantly lying and distorting the reality of the country (statistics are compromised, there is a huge insecurity problem which is labeled as a "sensation"). I always find it hard to explain to people from other countries what the reality of this country is since it is so corrupted at every sing

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by khallow ( 566160 )
      This is the second time in the comments to this story I've seen Grupo Clarin referred to as a "monopoly". What's the market that they effectively own?

      • Re:So what? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Nicopa ( 87617 ) <nico@lichtmaier.gmail@com> on Saturday August 21, 2010 @11:55PM (#33329610)

        Grupo Clarín owns the national major newspaper, and seems to control the 2nd major one. It owns TV channels in every town and city, and in many cities is the only cable operator. It controls the only newspaper paper plant in Argentina and uses prices to undermine other newspapers.

        As I explained in another comment, this is really about the government trying to stop a new merger, because Clarin had acquired the 2nd largest cable company in Argentina. The govt rejected the merger, but Clarín went ahead and dissolved the company, creating for itself an illegal situation (because the ISP license belonged to the old comany, which is now dissolved).

        We are here in very interesting times regarding the role of journalism, and the fight agains media giants...

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by kwanbis ( 597419 )
          Weird how this same government approved the merger they are trying to stop now. Yes, it was former president Nestor Kirchner the one who approved the merger. Now, somehow Cristina Kirchner, the ex president wife suddenly realizes is a bad merge. Strange, isn't it?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Nicopa ( 87617 )

            Yes, weird. Still, it's better for the people what they are doing now, not what they did before. The Multicanal-Cablevision merger is (was?) obviously a disaster for us consumers.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by kwanbis ( 597419 )
              So, that was a 2 years time frame. Doesn't it sounds suspicious? How convenient, Clarin is posting news about government corruption and suddenly they realize is bad for consumers? And how "good for consumers" would be now that people would have no choice but the telcos? Either you don't understand, or you are one of the payed cyber-activist of the corrupted-kirchner government.
        • If you have been following Argentinian politics, this supposed "defense of competition" is BS. This is just a political vendetta. If they were really, really operating as a good telecom regulator they would force them to sell a majority share of the company or something like that instead of this insanity of forcing a 1.5 million subscriber ISP to just close down.
          The stupidity, selfishness and sheer short sightedness of the Argentinian governing elite is just mind blowing.
          I'm from Uruguay. In times like

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by tannnk ( 810257 )
        They have bought media companies all around the country. They bought tv stations in every major city and shut down local programming. They produce everything in Buenos Aires and it's seen in the whole country. It won't boe a problem if there were local alternatives, but since Clarin bought them... The same goes with newspapers and radio station. Now, they owned a cable company named Multicanal. The only competence was Cablevision, but they have divided coverage areas so they don't overlap, so there was no r

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by elfleco ( 672452 )
      They were by far the most restrictive ISP: See http://wiki.vuze.com/w/Bad_ISPs#Argentina [vuze.com]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by kwanbis ( 597419 )
      So, you are saying it has nothing to do with the ex-president Nestor personal vendetta against grupo Clarin? Isn't it weird that it was former president Nestor itself who approved Clarin purchase of Fibertel, and that now that he no longer likes Clarin his wife is doing this? Kirchner's presidencies have been 2 of the most corrupted and terrible governments we have had. So sad.

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I used to have Fibertel. It was complete shit. Even worse than Comcast is in the USA. They have bad, spotty and throttled service in some areas, but they are the only cablemodem provider in Argentina.

      Nonetheless, this is yet another move in the continuing struggle between the current government and grupo Clarín. (http://www.argentinepost.com/2009/09/with-help-from-clarin-kirchner-rises-from-the-ashes.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/13/kirchner-and-clarin-argen_n_285105.html)

      Even when I don't

      • As a chilean, is sad to see how our neighbours are having bad times with their government. They used to pick on us chileans to make themselves look good, now they don't even do that! (joking, joking). I hope you guys get your shit together and make a revolution or something. Argentines are known for their personality, use it!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rgo ( 986711 )
          It's annoying to always hear the line "you used to be assholes with us, but now you can't cause your country is fucked up" whenever something bad happens in Argentina.
          • It is also annoying to see an attempt to a cheerful joke to be read as a mock. You must be bitter. And a typical south american who thinks that other countries get happy when one is going through a bad patch. That's why south america can't progress. All the countries are against each other.

    • Re:So what? (Score:5, Informative)

      by goruka ( 1721094 ) on Sunday August 22, 2010 @01:58AM (#33329980)
      I'm argentinian too, (and I'm affected) and let me fill up fellow slashdotters a little more on this. Grupo Clarin is a _huge_ media monopoly and the second largest company in the country. They own pretty much everything, every of the most relevant newspaper, cable TV company, Air TV signal, radio, broadband, media producers, etc. Until recently they have also all the monopoly on broadcasting all soccer games (soccer is big here). They slowly acquired monopoly status thanks to laws passed during dictatorship times (which they favored).

      Grupo Clarin's reach is so large that they control most of the public thinking, and many times helped coups or to overthrow presidents that didn't get along well with them. They used to be in a good relationship with the current government until a few years ago, when something mysterious happened and they became enemies (it's not certain what happened, but most likely that the government blocked them access to entering them into telephony, by favoring other companies, so they couldn't expand their monopoly). As a result, every single day the largest newspapers, TV channels, etc attack the government in any way they can, fabricating negative scenarios, taking government claims out of context, etc, reducing significantly the positive image of the president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.

      The government, in exchange, started passing several anti-monopoly laws to break Grupo Clarin, revoking their licenses, taking their grants for soccer broadcasting away, as well as prosecuting them for the crimes they committed during dictatorship.

      As a personal view, I feel my fellow argentinians are too blinded by the two-way hate, and too worried about taking sides, that don't realize this mutual destruction between the media monopoly and the current government (one of the most corrupt governments in our history) is probably very beneficial for the country, as it's like killing two birds with one stone..

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Punto ( 100573 )

      The debate over whether or not they broke law is misleading, because they broke a law that requires you to get permission from the government to provide internet access. Why would I have to do that? I don't want my government to get involved with me and my internet provider. What good have they done with that "power" anyway? (other than force them to shut down apparently). The "license to provide internet" shouldn't have to exist, so far it's only been a tool for the government to control them for their own

      • You need a license to drive, a license to own a restaurant, and a license to do pretty much anything else in most any civilized country. Don't pretend now that requiring a license to provide internet is an unsurmountable requirement. Cablevision shot itself in the foot. It was cheap to keep Fibertel open, but they couldn't to that, because they are way too cheap. And I've been an employee on the other ISP of the group, so I know how really really cheap and clueless they are. On top of that, add the packet

    • Good luck with getting a new provider during the following 3 months.

      Delays are bad enough when they _don't_ have 1000000 people to absorb.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ltcdata ( 626981 )
      you are so right. I have fibertel too, but i prefer to lose my internet connection, other than giving more power to the Prima monopoly.

    • Please tell me who exactly broke which law? The ISP is not getting closed because of any law-breaking, it is more like the goverment used a tecnicality to close it just because they wanted to. I like to get my news from the Clarin group, I don't see it a as news-controlling monopoly because there are other sources, I just trust Clarin more than the other sources (like Govermennt oficial news). There are some places where there were only 2 ISPs so closing one will lead to a monopoly, how come you don't gi

  • Wrong URL (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 21, 2010 @10:48PM (#33329414)

    The URL is not Fibertel.com. Is fibertel.com.ar

  • Faco (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 21, 2010 @11:06PM (#33329464)

    "More than a million households and businesses would need to change ISPs in merely 90 days"

    Technically, yes. In reality, not quite. Since Grupo Clarin will sue for its rights, the shut down of the company won't happen until all the trials are finished. Since justice takes a long time in Argentina, it will be some months before the users have to switch ISPs, and there is the chance that the trials carry on way past october 2011, when the next president is elected, so the decision may be overturned before it actually takes effect.

    Still, there is a lot of misinformation on this story around here, so some people still believe the company is already shutting down, which is draining their customer base. Also, until the justice rules on the case, Fibertel won't be able to sell its service to new customers, to the advantage of other ISPs.

    I myself have been using Fibertel for the past 5 years and had no complaint so far. Still, they do belong to Grupo Clarin, which is a huge monopoly around here, so the decision is not all that ilogical.

  • in north america, cablevision are the victimizers

    but in south america, cablevisión are the victimized

    it has to do with everything in reverse in the antipodes: summer is winter, night is day, good is bad, and i believe gravity works in reverse down there

  • This is really about antimonopoly measures (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nicopa ( 87617 ) <nico@lichtmaier.gmail@com> on Saturday August 21, 2010 @11:39PM (#33329572)

    This is part of the intention by the government to stop the merger of the two biggest cable providers. The merger has already been done, despite it being rejected ( http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/10918 [buenosairesherald.com] ). The new merged company dissolved one of the parts, without getting the license to operate under the new company. So, now they are operating under a license belonging to a company which no longer exists.

    The issue here is government vs media giants. Antimonopoly measures, which are common in developed countries, have a lot more opposition in non-developed countries, where economic interests go over the people's interest (yes, more than in the US =) ).

  • I live in Argentina (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GNUALMAFUERTE ( 697061 ) <almafuerte AT gmail DOT com> on Sunday August 22, 2010 @12:49AM (#33329780)

    So, allow me to provide a little bit more information on this subject.

    Our current government has that schizophrenic touch that Bush had. Their policy is the same that Bush had: Helping their corporate friends, pushing an agenda.

    Clarin is the largest spanish newspaper in the world. That includes all of Latin America + Spain. The Clarin Group, the holding behind the newspaper, also owns several other newspapers, several TV channels, publishing companies, and a lot of other companies in media and communications. It's one of the largest companies in South America, and it has huge worldwide influences.

    They have been in a fight for market penetration and control of the media with Telefonica for 2 decades. Our former President Nestor Kirchner, Secretary General of the Union of South American Nations and husband of our current president, had overwhelming support from Clarin, they actually helped him to achieve the presidency. Later, their relationships got a lot more tense when Nestor Kirchner did a few deals with Telefonica. Eventually, Clarin had withdrawn thoverhwellmingeir support, and had became his number one public enemy.

    Now, Nestor's wife (Cristina) is our president. Just like him, she's a fucking cunt, with a lot of personal interests that she has no moral issues pushing all the time, and a lot of friends to help out. Just like bush, they had interests in Oil companies, and in several big industries, and also in real estate. Pushing their own business is their only interest.

    So, this is just a move to pressure the Clarin group. This is a way to silence the bad publicity they've been getting from Clarin lately. It's a douchebag move.

    The worst thing about this is, Fibertel was owned by Cablevision. Later, with the approval of Nestor Kirchner, Clarin, through one of their subsidiaries (Multicanal: The Argentinian Comcast) bought Cablevision and therefore Fibertel. Now the government claims that data transmission licenses are nontransferable, and that therefore Fibertel is operating illegally. Also, Clarin owns almost 300 different licenses from several companies they have acquired throughout the years. That is highly irregular, and the government is using that as an excuse too.

    The worst thing here is that there are not many alternatives in here where it comes to Internet access.

    In Buenos Aires (Argentina's Capital City) and nearby cities (Metropolitan Area) there are several providers, such as iplan, fibertel, telefonica, telecom, telmex, telecentro, and others. In the rest of the country, the options are much more limited. There is surely one DSL provider (Either Telefonica's Speedy or Telecom's Arnet, and in most places there is also a cablemodem provider (Fibertel), a Wimax provider (Telmex), and some small local services, usually cooperatives or small wireless companies. And that's all. Telefonica sucks big time, both technically and commercially, and Fibertel is the only decent alternative, both technically and economically.

    You can get a decent 3MB cablemodem from Fibertel for ~40 dollars (160 pesos).

    Of course, Fibertel is not going to die. They are either going to appeal and win (or at least delay this for years to come), or sell the whole infrastructure to someone. Anyway, this is just the government reminding us that it can fuck with us whenever it wants.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by GNUALMAFUERTE ( 697061 )

      Sorry to reply to myself, but I forgot about something:

      The link in the article is wrong. Fibertel's webpage is fibertel.com.ar. Right now, when you enter the homepage, there is a clickthrough message before reaching the index that says they are going to continue providing their service, and that they are doing everything they can (legally) to continue providing their service.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Nicopa ( 87617 )

      So, if I understand you correctly... the Kirchners help corporate friends, and group Clarín is a good and big company that Argentinians should be proud of. Yet, in help of "their corporate friends", the Kirchner are pushing antimonopolic laws.

      This is the kind of schizofrenia created by media monopolies on weak minds... =)

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by goruka ( 1721094 )
        Yes, and they are very effective, but, regardless of the weakness of mind, they are even more effective in Argentina because the people is still very susceptible to attacks against freedom of press and freedom of speech by the recent dictatorships. The media constantly publishes every move against them as attacks to freedom of press, or freedom of speech. In other countries, like Venezuela for example, people has shown to be less susceptible to media brainwash, and even did public demonstrations against TV

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mangu ( 126918 )

        So, if I understand you correctly... the Kirchners help corporate friends, and group Clarín is a good and big company that Argentinians should be proud of. Yet, in help of "their corporate friends", the Kirchner are pushing antimonopolic laws.

        The Kirchners were glad to help Grupo Clarín build their monopoly as long as Grupo Clarín supported the Kirchner family political plans.

        Now that Grupo Clarín has adopted an opposition editorial policy the Kirchners are trying to break up the monopol

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by goruka ( 1721094 )
      A few clarifications from another fellow Argentinian.

      Our current government has that schizophrenic touch that Bush had. Their policy is the same that Bush had: Helping their corporate friends, pushing an agenda

      This is common for every single government over the face of the planet Earth. If you want to be critic with a government, this is one of the most irrelevant topics to discuss.

      It's one of the largest companies in South America, and it has huge worldwide influences.

      This is true, but they exert most of their influence here, by controlling public opinion. They are so strong in the country that they ultimately decide who gets to be president, and who gets the boot treatment.

      Just like him, she's a fucking cunt, with a lot of personal interests that she has no moral issues pushing all the time, and a lot of friends to help out.

      Congratulations you have just described a politician. This is the kind of

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Cantus ( 582758 )

      "Clarin is the largest spanish newspaper in the world. That includes all of Latin America + Spain." [CITATION NEEDED]

      "It's one of the largest companies in South America, and it has huge worldwide influences." [CITATION NEEDED]

      Argentine self-aggrandizing is world-renowned so could you please back these up?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nicopa ( 87617 )

        What's the need for offensive comments about other countries people? The kind of comments that are often the signature of a moron. Next time try to keep on the subject, without spitting insults and prejudice.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by forand ( 530402 )
      I appreciate your effort in placing the article in a broader context. However, you skirted the main question: Does Cablevisión have the proper license to operate as an ISP in Argentina? While you have made it clear that your government can be corrupt and used to the benefit of your elected officials, you have not made it clear that they are not actually enforcing the laws. Having a license to operate an ISP is a reasonable measure any government would require. It helps to ensure they are abiding by com

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ochnap2 ( 657287 )

      You seem to be too much concentrated in hating the Kirchners to see anything clear, aren't you? Get over it...

      Grupo Clarin is a monopoly, using it's many newspapers and tv channels it manipulates the news at a large scale to push the interests of the (few) tradicional "owners" of the country in detriment of everyone else. And not only that off course, many of it's bussiness practices, current and prior, are much less than pristine. The sooner they are divided in smaller companies the better for Argentina as

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by elfleco ( 672452 )
      Do you really think that Fibertel was a decent ISP? They were practically the only ones doing bandwidth throttling in Argentina, they were operating with an illegal license since they are not transferable (it is heavily regulated) without the state's approval, and they were the ones that allowed the prosecution [rollingstone.com.ar] [In spanish] of their own customers for P2P downloads.

      I do think that there should be a way to keep the company going because Telecom and Telefónica aren't much better and competition is alw

      • Speedy silently passes all web traffic through a transparent proxy. The service is absolutely unstable.

        Fibertel sucks in many ways, but it's still better than the alternatives.

    • You're totally right... I'm argentinian too, so I know what a pain in the ass this goverment can be... There's no other reason for them to close Fibertel (I'm one of the users of this ISP) than pollitical ones... Is easy, the Clarin group is the biggest obstacle that interferes in the goverment's plan to have all the media by their side... They want to do what is going on in Venezuela where the dictator Chavez has practically killed all the opposition =O... This is not for the good of the country, or minor

      • Yes, of course, that doesn't mean that Noble isn't a piece of crap, and that she's not doing all of this for political reasons too.

        But I like to analyse this from another POV:

        The state should always act within the law. When the state shows that it can act outside the law, and do what they please with anyone, company or individual, there is no more state, just another mercenary.

  • HERE IN ARG (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Argentina's government is becoming Venezuela.

  • Some thoughts from Argentina (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    A bit of extra info from another argentinian. Don't expect to be enlightened though, since the situation is basically a gigantic clusterfuck with no easily discernible good or bad guys.

    Grupo Clarín is Argentina's largest media conglomerate. It doesn't have a monopoly in anything because there is lots of competition, but it is the 500-pound gorilla in all the areas it competes in and in most of the markets it invests in. The largest newspaper (Clarín), one of the biggest tv networks, one of the lar

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Nicopa ( 87617 )

      Not neutral. The new law is not “setting things up so that the Government alone chooses who gets a license and who doesn't”, that's propaganda. The new law is just an anti-monopoly law.

      Besides, you have your facts wrong. They haven't been operating illegally for several years. Fibertel was "dissolved" on Jan 15th, and the government has been warning the company for some time now. What happened now is not surprise for anyone but the uninformed.

      Source: http://english.telam.com.ar/index.php?option= [telam.com.ar]

      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        To call the law "just" an anti-monopoly law is either very naive or propaganda itself. You are getting your info from the Government alone; you would do well to listen to the other side as well if you want even a chance of neutrality here. I'm not saying Grupo Clarin isn't a bunch of dicks, but it isn't at all clear to me that they are even doing anything illegal in this case even if you aren't bothered by the fact that the new law just oh so happens to make it easier for the government to shut down its opp

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nicopa ( 87617 )

          It really shows you don't know much about the new Argentine media law. Before the law, licenses were assigned by a government official, directly appointed by the president. Now, there is a commission, with some control by the opposition, and a formal public competition.

          You can read more about the media law in this site: (Spanish) http://www.leydemedios.com.ar/ [leydemedios.com.ar]

          (Of course, this Fibertel is not related with the media law)

    • the situation is basically a gigantic clusterfuck with no easily discernible good or bad guys.

      Oh, I think it is pretty easy to identify bad guys. It seems pretty clear to me that in this case the government is among the bad guys. The only question is whether or not Grupo Clarin is also among the bad guys. Additionally from the various comments by other Argentinians, it seems obvious that there are no good guys in this case, the best Grupo Clarin can hope to be is "not one of the bad guys" in this particular case.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nicopa ( 87617 )

        I do think the goverment is the "good guy" in this... (despite thinking this move wasn't smart, legitimate: yes, but not smart) What is your basis to say otherwise?

        Here is like if there were only Fox News in the US... Terrible!

        • Telling the a company that has been an avenue (or promoting) opposition communication that they provide Internet service is censorship. When the government does anything that is censorship they are the bad guy.

          Here is like if there were only Fox News in the US... Terrible!

          So, you appear to be saying that Grupo Clarin is the only news source that gives you the information that the current administration doesn't want you to know, why is that bad?

    • I think information is far from being a "product you can stop buying". And If you believe Clarín has less power to "decide whether or not I should be allowed to hear what someone wants to say" than the government, you probably don't quite understand the kind of power they have over information.
  • Come on!. There isn't a single spot in Argentina where Fibertel is the only ISP. Telecom and Telefonica are forced to bring service anywhere it is requested, because phone lines in Argentina are considered by law a Public Service. Cablevisión only brings cable where it will be profitable, and only some areas. I live in Córdoba, the second largest city of Argentina and my house is located 35 blocks away from downtown (Barrio Alto Alberdi, para los que conocen). I live 4 blocks from Cablevisión
  • Clarin is a monopoly pro-dictatorship. Its unfair advantage over other news organizations was cemented during Videla's dictatorship in the 1970's. At that time Clarin, along with the right-wing La Nacion got access to Papel Prensa, a very large paper producer that made newspaper only for these two organizations. Other papers needed to buy their material from other sources at significantly higher prices. Guess then how Clarin and La Nacion got to grow so much?

    Here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File: [wikipedia.org]

  • The other day I was walking on the street and saw a graffiti that resumes (IMO) the current state of the problem between Grupo Clarin and the Government, but from the side that matters, which is the side of the people: The government pees on us and the media tell us that it is raining. This basically resumes who is who here. Argentina is VERY divided and almost everyone takes one side or the other without actually thinking that neither of the parties is makes any "good" to our society. And this is histori

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