New Chinese Rule Requires Real Names Online 193
crimeandpunishment writes "According to a human rights group, a leading Chinese Internet regulator is calling for new rules requiring people to use their real names online and when buying mobile phones. New York-based 'Human Rights in China' says it has obtained the complete text of a speech Wang Chen, director of the State Council Information Office, made in April, and they quote him as saying 'We will make the Internet real name system a reality as soon as possible.'"
It's being done in the US too (Score:5, Insightful)
new rules requiring people to use their real names -- when buying mobile phones
Just like Chinese, this is required by Apple too. They say it's so that you cannot buy multiple phones, but you still are required to give them your real name when you want to buy a phone. You are only allowed to buy a device with a credit card and they will record your name and phone IMEI.
The trend in the US seems to be going strongly towards using real names too. Theres Facebook and there just was that Blizzard Forum incident. So it's not really nothing new, but it is just an another "china and communism is bad"-story when pretty much the same is done in the US.
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And it's not just phones there too... a WiFi-only iPad falls under the same policy.
Re:It's being done in the US too (Score:4, Informative)
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There are many non-intrusive ways to limit people purchasing the entire stock - such as a simple rule of one purchase per time through the line, or one every fifteen minutes.
And no, I at least wouldn't be complaining. I'd be laughing that their over-hyped, artificially short-supplied launch strategy bit them in the ass. Apple intentionally cultivates this hype among the true believers that would lead to someone standing in line for days or paying a huge premium for early access so they have only themselves
Re:It's being done in the US too (Score:5, Insightful)
but it is just an another "china and communism is bad"-story when pretty much the same is done in the US.
Regardless, two wrongs still don't make a right.
Re:It's being done in the US too (Score:5, Insightful)
"but it is just an another "china and communism is bad"-story when pretty much the same is done in the US."
But its not being implemented at the behest of the US Government. Apparently, its not in China either, yet, but; the comments by this Wang Chen of the State Council Information Office would appear to indicate that it will be, very soon. I do not have to (and I do not) use Apple products or Facebook, and I have access to all the digital services I need. The policies of those services are not governmental policies. Big difference that you seem to be ignoring.
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But its not being implemented at the behest of the US Government.
Are you sure? In China, the government is simply more open about it. In the US, corporations act as the lackeys of the government (either that or they get leaned on themselves). They might use fraud or marketing as an excuse for needing the information. But once they have your name and the gov't asks for it, they get it..
Remember the big deal about amnesty for the telcos for complying with warrantless information requests?
Re:It's being done in the US too (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed!
The headline claims: "New Chinese Rule Requires Real Names Online"
The first line of the summary says: "...a leading Chinese Internet regulator is calling for new rules requiring people to use their real names online".
So which is it? - Required, or someone thinks it should be required?
I know China censor their net but I'm sick and tired of this sort of journalistic hyperbole. It happens with everything, read any story on the Aussie internet and it sounds like I'm living in NK, except in reality none of what Conroy is "calling for" has been implemented and it will probably stay that way.
Vigillance is a GoodThingTM but the bullshit tsumami that occurs every time some random official opens their mouth is fucking childish.
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"...because there are no alternative providers of the same services, the situation is exactly the same in effect as it would be if they were governmental policies."
I guess you're just going to ignore the part wherein I comment that I have access to all the digital services that can be provided by Apple/AT&T/Facebok without having to give them the same information.
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On the other hand it is done at the behest of the government in France, Australia, India, Sri Lanka, Japan.
It is quite likely to happen in the US - there are certainly legislators who support the idea.
As far as I can see the difference between China and "democratic" countries is gradually shrinking.
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The real wrong is our failure to resist these encroachments. It might not be expected of the Chinese, but the Americans... WTF! It's been almost 40 years since people have made any real attempt to alter government/corporate policy. Now they only complain if their favorite TV show is canceled.
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They don't make for much of a controversy either.
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Yeah, but it's contaminated with lead and diethylene glycol.
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So it's not really nothing new, but it is just an another "china and communism is bad"-story when pretty much the same is done in the US.
No... Don't you see?
The Chinese infiltrated the economic structure of the United States long ago, forcing people to use their real names for services. Only now that it has been widely adopted as "okay", can China show its true colours.
We've all had the hoods pulled over our eyes, China controls America!
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Yes, that "requiring real names on WoW forums" really sank like a trace, didn't it? I barely heard about it. You can tell how nobody cares when that happens in the US, because, like, there would have been a big stink about it or something.
No, wait...
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No, it's not the same thing as what's being done in the US.
You might have to use your name to buy a cell phone here, but you don't have to use your name online. Individual websites requiring the use of real names is a totally different thing then the gov't requiring it. Imagine how people would react if the U.S. gov't said everyone must use their real names online!
As well, using my real name is not dangerous here, whereas in China you have a reason to not use your real name. I think it is pretty obvious
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"You seem to be under the impression"
Key word there is "seem". I'm perfectly aware that my IP is logged everywhere I go - unless I use some sort of a proxy. However, with a law that all of my posts, everything I do online, has to be identified with a unique identifier, proxies and other anonymizing tools will obviously be illegal. Using TOR, I2P, or other similar software will make me a criminal.
Of course, I'm already a criminal, because I use P2P, LMAO
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Oh, please. Even leaving aside the unpleasant truth that most child abusers are the child's own close acquaintances, not str
Re:It's being done in the US too (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember that whopper. It's got to be up there with the most transparent lies ever told by a major corporation.
"You can't buy an iPhone with cash because we're worried that we'll sell too many of them".
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Well, given the iPhone 4, despite its antenna problems, has a 3 week waiting list, and the iPad probably has around 1-2 weeks, I'd say Apple's just not making enough of them. And you want to aggravate the issue by having people pick up 10 at a time?
Sprint'
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this is required by Apple too. They say it's so that you cannot buy multiple phones,
I'm the personal assistant of Mr. George Clooney. He would like to give iPhones to 100 of his closest friends as Christmas gifts.
So, do I get my 100 iPhones? Or is Android going to be the next big thing seen at Cannes?
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"Just like Chinese, this is required by Apple too. They say it's so that you cannot buy multiple phones, but you still are required to give them your real name when you want to buy a phone."
That is a really stupid thing since names are not unique. Or are you saying that if Bill Johnson buys a phone from Apple, no other Bill Johnson can buy a phone from Apple?
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What carrier are you going to put that on that doesn't require an ID or SSN?
T-Mobile.
Call them. Lie about name and SSN.
When you fail the credit check, they put you on prepay rather than postpay. The SIM comes in the mail. If you have some blank T-Mobile SIM cards already, they can activate them for you.
The plans aren't bad, and you don't end up paying the prepaid penalty either.
Does this really do a lot of good? (Score:2, Flamebait)
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Any guess on how many people share the name "Wang Chen" in all of China? Chances are most people could use their real name and still remain relatively anonymous.
Uh, you are talking about "westernized" names. They're quite different to their real names. Also, a lot of Asian countries tend to shorten their names in casual usage and only use the real long name in official situations. For example Thai people have really long names, but casually everyone shortens it to the first 3-4 letters.
Re:Does this really do a lot of good? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any guess on how many people share the name "Wang Chen" in all of China? Chances are most people could use their real name and still remain relatively anonymous.
Certain pieces of information are key nodes that link other clusters of information. You're right in so far as a name itself may not be unique and if given nothing but that piece of information, it'd be hard to single out and individual. But real names are very rarely isolated like that. There is usually a entire clusters of information around a name. And this rule would simply ensure that those clusters stay attached to any given individual (or at least - harder to isolate).
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There are of course many possibilities of name overlap but I do not think that would be an issue. What it seems they would do is have a registered account to access the internet, similar to that of our Slashdot account except you would only get one, it would use your real name (Social Security number equivalent backing it), and if you posted a bad thing you would lose Karma (being that the largest followed religion is Buddhism).
Wait, I've seen that Karma somewhere before...
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heya,
Actually, the largest religion isn't Buddhism (or Taoism), per se, because they aren't really practiced as a "religion", as such.
Most Chinese just have a mix of weird cultural superstitious, that get passed on in the family. They believe in a heaven (celestial court), and various Gods/deities/ghosts etc, but usually in a very general sense. This is something of a stereotype, but often they'll just pray in the hopes that their kids will get good marks at school, or they'll earn good money etc. They don'
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That was really informative...and I thought my search was reliable on the internet.
thanks
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Unless all Wang Chens are "processed" due to the actions of just one.
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Stoopid ethnic joke heard in my childhood (1970s):
Q: Why don't they have phone books in China?
A: Because there are so many Wings and Wongs, you'd probably wing the wong number.
My ex-wife (Score:2)
Thirty years after marrying her, my ex-wife now has more chins than the Beijing phone directory.
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Any guess on how many people share the name "Wang Chen" in all of China?
No kidding. Everybody's Wang Chen tonight [youtube.com].
... What? Oh....
Re:Does this really do a lot of good? (Score:5, Funny)
Every child born will also be assigned a permanent unique sequential code, in the form of a UUID, including a series of digits that represent the time of birth/registration, and a series of digits that represent the locality of birth, as well as a sequential serial number.
And then all the kids with 6-digit UUIDs will scoff at the newcomers with 7-digit UUIDs...
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*Scoff.
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This is already true. I forgot where the link to the article, but China restricts names in several ways. The most prominent being that it has to be able to be typed on a keyboard and entered into a database. My understanding is that only a fraction of the Chinese characters are represented in operating systems. Baby names are limited to that fraction.
Re:Does this really do a lot of good? (Score:5, Funny)
I bet there'll be a lot of names like Yin Dao Yan, Qian Lie Xie, Wei Shen Jing, and Ji Ba Mao.
There are so many Wings and Wongs in China, it is very likely to Wing a Wong number.
It had to be said.
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In 2005, China was pounded by Longwang:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_Longwang [wikipedia.org]
There's also this long-wang, that "comes in floods:"
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=LONG-WANG [godchecker.com]
Blizzard? (Score:2, Funny)
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This is an advanced indication that China is preparing to become one of Facebook's biggest partners.
Not actually done, just a proposal (Score:5, Informative)
It looks like some people want that to be the law, not that it is the law.
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And like US regulators I suspect it's as easy as just writing a rule. Lots of regulatory agencies create rules that are not laws, but have the same force as law, such as the "Know Your Customer" regulation (requires banks report cash transaction greater than $10,000).
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heya,
A lot of it is probably petty squabbling between different departments/divisons/fiefdoms.
It's like they're all warlords, and we're back in the Warring States period...lol...
And Mao Ze Dong was definitely not Qin Si Huang.
Cheers,
Victor.
Disturbing (Score:2)
Although the article does seem biased, I do not mind as I agree with the sentiment that this move to eliminate anonymity is disturbing. This leads me to two questions:
Something seems a little backwards here...are they really all that naive to see that they may end up losing control?
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I generally assume the Chinese government expects to become a democracy of some sort in the long run. Long being the operative term. Short term they want to avoid ending up like Russia after the Soviet Union fell. Or Africa and India after the colonial powers left. Hell, China itself under Mao is a perfect example of what atrocities can happen when random "revolutionaries" gain power. In other words a slow controlled shift rather than an abrupt one that implodes the economy.
Remember that it took the west ce
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Just like Norway (Score:2)
In Sweden you can buy a pay-as-you-go SIM-card for $6 (49 SEK) with no questions asked. The only issue with these cards is that the service provider is in theory able to store what SIM card num
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Alla din bas är tillhöra oss!
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People are missing the next step. (Score:2)
The people discussing this are missing the point - this is just a first step for China to attempt to de-anonymize the internet in their country. The people who say "well, they still have some anonymity because of name collisions" are correct, but for how long?
Things like this are a precursor to more nefarious things, such as requiring government issued passes to connect to the internet to do anything on it.
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No they're not. if it's anything like Korea, then when you register you attach your citizen ID number to it. It's trivial to find out which Mr. Lee you really are.
Rule doesn't change much (Score:2)
As things stand, unless the user is technically skilled, the real person can often be tracked to the phone / IP address. I think with enough knowledge you could use the web truly anonymously but not many people have that skill. Many will make mistakes that let the government correlate the computer with the person.
...as soon as possible. (Score:2)
When will possible get here?
South Korea (Score:2)
This has been the norm in South Korea for years. But it isn't public full name that is used. Well some people can if they want, but on most sites you're allowed to set a nickname for display. You can still be anonymous so long as you don't break the law. The government just requires that a real identity be attached to each account. Frankly it does have some benefits. It's much harder to troll if you're banned. You have to steal another ID which is illegal to come back and harass people in games, on forums,
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Quite. because you still need to verify the #. Simply having the number isn't enough to create an account in someone's name. Most websites require you have another form of verification which means a cell phone registered with that exact ID, or a bank certificate registered with that ID, etc, which all require you show up with your real ID in hand and create it. IDs are photocopied and sent to head office. Some sketchy cell phone shop isn't going to get away with making many fakes before they're busted.
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I run a blog about Korean video games for foreigners. 5 of the 7 major game portals take foreign IDs for registration. recently the government introduced a new system called I-PIN where you create it using your national ID card, but then use a secure username/pass on the site to create your account there. The I-PIN site informs them that you are legit. Why would the RIAA have anything to do with determining if a Korean ID is stolen?
As for the benefits it ensures someone you kick off the site isn't coming ba
Bit late now (Score:4, Insightful)
While the State exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State.- Lenin (1870 - 1924)
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Hmm, at least we're not quite there yet. Here in the US you can walk into a Starbucks or Borders, buy a hot chocolate with cash, click 'agree' on some ToS and have internet. Also I have not yet been to a hotel (and I travel alot for work) that required any identification to get online (Hampton Inns require a code but that is shared by all hotel residents and obtained from any keycard sleeve).
That said, apparently to sign up for a new phone contract with most providers in the US you are required to give yo
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They want to do a credit check. Either go with prepaid, or pay the deposit.
If you really want anonymity, you're buying prepaid phones with cash anyway (and discarding them regularly...
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But presumably you prebook the room. Would the same apply if you turned up unannounced and paid cash for the room?
That said, apparently to sign up for a new phone contract with most providers in the US you are required to give your SSN (there is a way around it for some by paying a hefty deposit). How were they allowed to do this without so much as a whimper? Now I'm stuck with my current provi
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But presumably you prebook the room. Would the same apply if you turned up unannounced and paid cash for the room?
If you can get online in most hotels without ever booking a room in the first place, what does it matter how you paid?
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Forcing people to use their "real name" (whatever that actually means) may make they more anonymous if that is a common name or they usually go by a different name. I'm reminded of a sketch from the 1970's involving a car maker called Roberts where everyone was called "Bob".
For example in Italy you cant even walk into
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Because all States are exactly the same and there's no difference between living in North Korea, Yemen and Canada.
Looks like somebody should be moving to China! (Score:2)
WoW, seems like Blizzard should be packing up and relocating to China. There's some sorta meeting of the minds going on there.
Just try to force me... (Score:2)
I'd like to see them try to force me to use my real name on the Internet..... Oh wait.... Curse you, Chinese Government!!!!
Totalitarism. (Score:2)
Its funny that all point to China *now* about *this*. To be clear on that Chins *has* human rights problems, but when it comes to surveillance and giving up privacy in telecommunications, the west should watch itself a little bit better. Mobile phones are mandatory registered (although its not always enforced) in *many* countries. And the Idea that the Internet gets better if everybody would use the real name is not genuinely Chinese (Hello, Blizzard). In some countries the people who print out emails see t
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Only up to a point. I know this is anathema to Americans, but at some point your rights stop when they interfere with others, for example in calling for someone's murder.
Everybody Wang Chen tonight (Score:2, Funny)
Everybody Wang Chen tonight
Everybody have fun tonight.
(repeat)
This is going to be so good. The lyrics for the song are just so inspiring in the face of Wang Chen's perspective. I think we can all be Wang Chen tonight. I'm going to be Wang Chen for everything I do online.
Yours,
Wang Chen.
no problem... (Score:2)
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Heh, really. How much of a problem will this pose anyway, with millions of people named "Lee This" and "Lee That" anyway. If this happened in the US, we could just all start naming our offspring John/Jill Smith.
In Thailand (and I think to some extent China) no one really even uses their official names anyway. Everyone has a nickname like "bird" or "smalley" or something like that which they use to address each other... friends, relatives, and strangers alike.
A very misleading headline (Score:2)
The /. headline says " New Chinese Rule Requires Real Names Online". The summary and article however says that one individual, a Director of the State Council Information Office, has called for the introduction of a real-name system.
I agree that reading the article is all important, but getting the headline right is also important.
This again shows we are superior than the China (Score:2)
Ping Pong Ping (Score:2)
How many people in China have the same name, probably quite a few...
What is funny is the tighter the Chinese leaders tighten their grip and the more prosperous the Chinese middle class become the more changes the country will go through leading to a freedom revolution that I expect will occurs in the next 20-30 years.
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>>>giving the police permission to tap the line to wait for you to ID yourself.
More information please. I've never heard of this.
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Asking Slashdot for information on wiretaps is like asking Rush Limbaugh for information on Obama's policies, or asking Al Gore for information on climate science. The results may be amusing, but I hope you don't expect them to bear any resemblance to reality.
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No it's not. Pre-paid cellphones are incredibly easy to get... Also pay phone still exist.
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That doesn't make it a troll. Comparing evil communist china with current US practices I think is an exceptionally valid and frightening thing to do.
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I'm too tired to give any commentary about this, or even tell you whether I think comparing the U.S. to China is valid, so I'll leave it as "food for thought": the country with the largest fraction of its population in prison is the United States.
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the country with the largest fraction of its population in prison is the United States.
And a huge number (hundreds of thousands) of those are in for victimless crimes like using drugs.
They really should stop that "land of the free" slogan.
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Comparing US with China is kinda like comparing Obama with Stalin or Bush with Hitler. It's such a massive and obvious exaggeration that it only weakens any valid points you might have.
And yet you just made five comparisons in the previous paragraph! Is China now the standard on which the US is to be judged as free or not free?
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When I was on holiday in the States in 2005, I used payphones and I bought a friend a pre-paid (pay as you go) cellphone.
However I bought it with a credit card (which does tie it to me). In 2005 I also bought a pre-paid (100 Euro credit) cellphone with cash.
The problem with cellphones is that you need an awful lot of dimes to make an international call. :)
Our European cellphones (unless they're dual band pricy models) don't work in the states and vice-versa.
Considering cellphones set off metal detectors, I'
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Cameras and identification everywhere won't prevent you or your family from being killed. They might make it easier to catch who did, but it won't make you safer.
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So, when can I come over and install a camera in your bedroom?
I hope that you see that you do have something to hide. And that having something to hide doesn't necessarily have to be the sole domain of criminals.
For any politician spouting the same line, I ask that you first install a camera in your office. After all, the office is paid for by the citizenry. It's public property.
Re:Why do you need to be anonymous at all? (Score:5, Informative)
Because sometimes, society is mistaken about what it considers to be wrong. In that situation, which in my opinion is very very common, privacy allows you to act morally.
Recent examples come to mind:
Re:Why do you need to be anonymous at all? (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, it is indeed better if you are a child abuser to remain anonymous.
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There are those of us that think that while children don't necessarily understand logical arguments or "sanctions", they are hardwired (like every other animal) to understand pain.
I define spanking as causing mild temporary pain without tissue damage. Anything that causes visible damage is "beating" them and not "spanking" them.
It should also be used extremely sparingly and only when other punishments have failed to control their behaviour - that way the other punishments are reinforced and become effective
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The problem is the criminals will be the last to be affected.
This is an old, known method. You find a homeless, a poor man, somebody deadly ill, a junkie and such. You pay them some reasonable money for their identity. Then you register the phone in their name, you get money from the skimmed credit cards, you use documents in their name when traveling, you make expensive purchases in their name. When they are caught, they know very little about you and they have little enough to lose and are desperate for
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I see what you did there - you deliberately misspelled the word "gibberish" as "gyberish" so that it would appear as gibberish.
Or maybe not.
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