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Censorship The Internet

Pakistani Lawyer Wants Mark Zuckerberg Executed 1318

Earthquake Retrofit sends along a piece from The Register reporting on a nightmare scenario of legal jurisdiction on the Internet: a Pakistani lawyer has filed blasphemy charges, carrying the death penalty, against Mark Zuckerberg and other Facebook executives (and the pseudonomous user who initiated the "Draw Muhammad" contest last month). Pakistani police have apparently opened an investigation, according to this Google translation of a BBC Urdu report."
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Pakistani Lawyer Wants Mark Zuckerberg Executed

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  • You know... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bsDaemon ( 87307 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:27PM (#32614156)

    ... while the wider implications are scary, I'm not sure I really have a problem with this particular case. Think they could make Four Square a crime against humanity while they're at it?

  • Sure, why not? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bigstrat2003 ( 1058574 ) * on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:28PM (#32614174)
    We seem to be willing to cave to the Muslim extremists in every other way, so why not this one too? Surely it's only sensible to be pussies every time the extremists pressure us, life and liberty be damned!
  • by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:30PM (#32614212)

    It should probably be noted, that the US has an extradition treaty with Pakistan, the court could in theory demand extradition of Mark Zuckerberg by US authorities, to be turned over to the custody of the court in Pakistan, to face the charges.

    I thought the US was the only country that thought it could apply its laws to anyone in the world, even its own citizens when they don't reside in the country.

  • by SlappyBastard ( 961143 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:36PM (#32614304) Homepage

    Once canvas takes over, we draw can Muhammad every fucking where.

    It's sad, because I really want to support executing Zuckerberg. But . . .

    I get the general religious offense in drawings of Muhammad. In that regard, it's like the Piss Crucifix. But, I don't see the need for the great animus behind all this. I mean, are Muslims really such pussies they can't take a fucking joke about their Prophet? Also, isn't this sort of elevating the Prophet to the level of a deity? And if so, doesn't that sort of nullify the Muslism creed (there is no god but God, and the stick figure behind the "censored" blackout bar is His Prophet)?

    In the meantime, here's a fucking ASCII drawing of Muhammad . . .

    O ----( Allahu akbar! ) -|- | /\

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:42PM (#32614416)

    Most countries require that their citizens follow the law, even when they are outside the countrys border. For example if you go on vacation with a "friend" and murder him somewhere where murder is legal your country will still consider you as a criminal when you get back home.

    Next time the border guards make odd claim on where the border actually is; politly remind them that citizens of their country are required to follow their particular constitution regardless of where they are and that they have no jurisdiction outside their cointries border.

  • Islam question (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DoofusOfDeath ( 636671 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:42PM (#32614418)

    Could someone explain why some Muslims believe that their rules need to apply to non-Muslims?

    As a point of contrast, many Christians believe that their primary responsibility is to not themselves sin. Secondarily is to encourage their fellow Christian to avoid sinning; this includes (at the worst) kicking people out of the church when they're chronically unwilling to shape up. But But it's pretty hard to find anything directly in Christian theology that suggests Christians are supposed to try to impose these standards on non-Christians.

    So what is it about some Muslim theologies that leads them to try to, for example, feel justified and/or compelled to try to kill Dutch cartoonists and Facebook executives?

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki@gmTEAail.com minus caffeine> on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:47PM (#32614516) Homepage

    Reformation vs no reformation. It's pretty easy to figure out which ones went through which 700 years ago.

  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:48PM (#32614536) Homepage

    It's a real problem for Zuckerman. He's previously made fund-raising trips to Dubai. [techcrunch.com] That's over. The UAE has blasphemy laws [wikipedia.org], which they enforce. The UAE also has an extradition treaty with Pakistan [dailytimes.com.pk], but not with the United States. So he can no longer visit Dubai, and is unlikely to get funding from any source in the Arab world. He can't even fly Emirates Air.

  • Re: Sure, why not? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bigstrat2003 ( 1058574 ) * on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:52PM (#32614620)
    The one that springs to mind is Comedy Central's censoring of South Park (twice!) because they were afraid of offending Muslims. The general PC belief seems to me to be that we need to avoid offending the poor Muslims at any cost, which is of course asinine.
  • by Bobfrankly1 ( 1043848 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:53PM (#32614644)

    What facebook should be ashamed of is that they bowed to pressure from these lunatics.

    Yeah, that's the only thing facebook should be ashamed of...

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2010 @12:56PM (#32614690)

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    Matthew 10:34-37

    (Jesus speaking to his disciples)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that Christians ignore most of the worst parts, but you can't pretend they aren't there.

  • based on the actions of their equivalent of Jack Thompson? Oh way to go there. Let's show the rest of the non-Judeo Christian based world just how merciful and understanding we really are.

    Here's a thought. Why don't we read up on what actual Islam is, versus the supremacist Arab culture that permeates and corrupts it. Karen Armstrong did a wonderful job of pointing out what Islam actually is, and how Arab culture with it's tradition of jahilliyeh has since permeated and corrupted it (note to the curious - Wahibist Islam is a fundamentalist version of Islam where the clerics try to reconcile the pre-Mohammed "heroic" cultural mores of Arab tribal culture with Islam itself - which is what Mohammed explicitly fought against).

    but wait. It's far easier to learn programming, and read physics textbooks, and read Dawkins/Hitchens, and other men bloviating about the evils of religion, when they don't even have any real expertise in theology to begin with (Dawkins is a BIOLOGIST). And therefore, when one Muslim version of Jack Thompson goes with an attention-getting stunt, we automatically do to the entire muslim world what people who didn't understand gaming did to us gamers - we stereotype and hate. Way to go, there.

  • by digsbo ( 1292334 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:01PM (#32614788)
    Regarding exporting values, you make a good point. If Pakistan has broad-based support for such a measure, they should simply cut off access to FaceBook nationwide. Self-determination, right? Just because we believe in freedom of speech (even when used to inflame and insult) doesn't mean we have to mandate that same value for them.
    Also, I wonder what the people who post insulting things about someone else's religion think they're achieving. Is there any beneficial outcome from that?
  • by mosb1000 ( 710161 ) <mosb1000@mac.com> on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:02PM (#32614798)
    That depends what you mean when you say "Christianity". If you are referring to the "churches" where things are hierarchically structured and they teach that you must adhere to a strict system of "beliefs" or "doctrine" or "theology" then you are correct. Ironically, the Bible comes out strongly against those things and that way of doing things. It seems that either "Christians" haven't read it, or they didn't understand it. In that regard, "Christians" are much worse than followers of most religions, since don't practice what they preach in any noticeable way (the very act of instituting "Churches" runs contrary to the Bible). Jesus certainly wouldn't be allowed in "Church", they'd probably stone him if he went up before them preaching some of the things the Bible says he preached.
  • Re:I love moderates (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zero_out ( 1705074 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:04PM (#32614832)
    Some would pose strong, and well substantiated, arguments that Catholicism isn't Christianity. One such argument may even be the example that you gave.
  • by Dr_Barnowl ( 709838 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:07PM (#32614886)

    Politically motivated or not, religion was a useful tool to justify them. Without that tool, they would have had to fall back on reason, which means they might have found it a lot harder to justify their position.

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wonko the Sane ( 25252 ) * on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:32PM (#32615322) Journal

    I'd add fraud and other white collar crimes for cases where the damages exceed the statistical value of a human life [msn.com].

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:41PM (#32615486)

    Listen to this, read this, learn it by heart:

    Muslim Outrage [msunderestimated.com]

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:48PM (#32615620)

    Also, while Islam didn't have a "reformation", it also has the "two-substantially-dissimilar-and-mutually-displeased-with-one-another-sects-operating-under-one-heading" thing going, with the Sunni and Shia branches(plus some smaller oddball variants), and that hasn't exactly exposed its warm and fuzzy side.

    Islam is currently having a reformation, actually. It's called Wahhabi Islam, and is getting its claws deep into every part of the Islamic world. This is the version of Islam commonly exported from Saudi Arabia to other parts of the world - principally of significance to most here, the US and Europe.

    Ironically, Iran (and parts of Iraq) are the only parts of the Islamic world which aren't seeing huge increases in Wahhabi - and they're also the only significant Shia populations. Considering the sect warfare within Islam alone, it might give some pause when considering Iran's nuclear program and give us cause to both support and quickly oppose said program.

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Wyatt Earp ( 1029 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @01:56PM (#32615760)

    Christianity did not spread via wars of conquest. Christianity does not have a history of killing people who produce works of art depicting God or Jesus Christ, nor does Christianity have a history of killing people who renounce Christianity.

    Yes, there were the witch hunts and the inquisitions and Catholic vs Protestant wars and pogroms, but those were societal and governmental issues carried out under the name of Christianity while Islam as a religion calls for wars of conquest and killing nonbelievers.

    If you look at the primary sources of Christian conquests like the Conquest of Mexico, the Catholic priests sat down with Maya and other Mesoamerican priests and leaders to discuss how the Christian God and beliefs were the same as their own, which is why Creole and Central American Catholicism embraced local feast days and minor deities.

    An example - Our Lady of Guadalupe contains Aztec symbolism - Her blue-green mantle was described as the color once reserved for the divine couple Ometecuhtli and Omecihuatl.

    Orthodox Islam doesn't allow for differences like that, nor do Islamic run schools bolster science like Catholic and Jesuit schools do.

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:2, Interesting)

    by groslyunderpaid ( 950152 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @02:47PM (#32616724)

    Unitarian doesn't belong there. Unitarian is on the other side of the river from trinitarian.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism [wikipedia.org]

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Grishnakh ( 216268 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @03:43PM (#32617692)

    If we want Islam to go through a reformation/enlightenment, we need to bolster the economies of those countries first. People often point to Saudi Arabia as a counter-example that economy is everything in moderating belief, but to me, all that points to is that a country surrounded by conservative/radical Islamic countries, has a hard time becoming moderate on its own.

    I disagree. Those economies are never going to improve, unless the people change their own culture and religion. That's exactly what happened in Europe and saved it from being a theocratic hellhole. They didn't have some enlightened outsiders come in and fix up their economies to make them prosperous so they'd give up on religious wars; they fixed up their own economies.

    In a nutshell, you can't force improvement on a culture from outside. You'll always be seen as an oppressor, trying to force your ways upon them.

    The only way to treat Islam is to wall it off from the developed world. Don't allow Muslims to immigrate to advanced nations, and keep them in their own countries. Don't restrict trade with them, however (except for nuclear materials and weapons of course), but trying to merge them into Western society isn't going to work, and just pisses off the Westerners because they're being asked to accommodate the Muslims by adopting Sharia Law, Islamic dress codes, restrictions on free speech, etc. The only immigration that should be allowed is for those who have given up the religion altogether and are willing to adopt the culture of their new host country. But even those people tend to have a lot of problems with their disaffected Western-born kids, however, as seen in France where it's the second-generation Muslims that are always rioting. They need to stay in their own countries, and fix their own societies from within. However, this philosophy also means we need to get our asses out of their countries, and stop trying to control everything over there; no more military interventions (unless there's a REAL threat, like ICBMs, not some made-up threats). If there's no Western troops in their lands or manipulating their governments, they won't have an excuse for any terrorist acts against Western nations. You don't see people from the fucked-up nations of subsaharan Africa wanting to terrorize Westerners, because Western nations don't have any involvement there (mainly because there's no oil).

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:2, Interesting)

    by operagost ( 62405 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @03:58PM (#32617942) Homepage Journal
    Canada and Sweden both have laws defining anti-homosexuality statements as "hate speech".
  • I hate to break the news to you, but Islam simply doesn't play nice with...well I'd say any non Islamists, but look at Sunni VS Shia. Have you seen the translated videos from the tribal region? Little 6 year old singing lovely songs with words like "I'll get to Allah with the heads of Americans and Jews on my belt". They ain't raising kids there, they are raising future suicide bombers.

    As it is all of Europe will be a Sharia law hellhole in under 40 years, simply because Muslims treat their women like cattle, and keep them pregnant. Whether we like it or not sooner or later it is gonna be all out US VS Them, simply because they refuse to respect the right of non Muslims to exist. Look at what happens to countries that get beyond 50%, they turn into violent backward hellholes. They simply don't play nice, and appeasement don't get you anything but laughed at by them. Sorry, but peace and love doesn't work if the other guy thinks you don't have the right to live, and with Islam that is pretty much the way it is.

  • Re:I love moderates (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AK Marc ( 707885 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @05:27PM (#32619334)
    I'd argue that religion is about the ego of people not allowing for "I don't know" to be the most common answer to everything. "Why does the sun rise?" Either "I don't know" or make up something. "Why are there seasons?" Either make up something or admit you don't know. Ever notice how hard many parents try to not say "I don't know" to their children? They'll make up stuff, or go to "because I said so" or "go ask your dad/mom." But "why is the sky blue" being answered with "I don't know" just doesn't happen.

    Of course, once "God" was invented to be the default for all questions where "I don't know" would otherwise be the answer, then man corrupted the idea of a universal answer into a power grab. Religion isn't about power. People want power. They use God or guns or food or whatever they have to gain that power. Religion is a tool in the quest for power, but not the cause. It just so happens that we are so far removed from the beginnings of it that it's hard to see the difference in what "religion" is and what "those who run religions" want.
  • by Tom ( 822 ) on Friday June 18, 2010 @05:28PM (#32619354) Homepage Journal

    The son of one of Hamas's founders admits that the social restrictions on dating and sex in Islam and the Middle Eastern tribal society is one of the leading causes of militarism in Islam.

    Of course it is. There's even a Pentagon handbook outlining that the most important part of nation building is getting the angry young men off the streets. We are biologically programmed to have a period of extreme activity and aggression during certain years of the males of the species. Channeling these energies from the intended purpose of mating into something else is very easy and has been one of the first tricks of social engineering discovered. Why do you think we recruit soldiers in their late teens? Physical performance is not the reason, it peaks a couple years later.

"I prefer the blunted cudgels of the followers of the Serpent God." -- Sean Doran the Younger