Amazon Seeks 1-Nod Ordering Patent 194
theodp writes "Amazon.com is famous for its patented 1-Click ordering system. But what about 1-Nod ordering? Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is seeking a patent on a system that would let people make purchases with a nod, a smile, or even a raise of the eyebrow. Bezos' invention — 'Movement Recognition as Input Mechanism' — envisions a computing device that could interpret certain facial expressions and enhance or potentially replace conventional input devices such as keypads and touch screens."
Isn't this standard practice at auctions? (Score:5, Insightful)
But it is on a *computer* (Score:5, Insightful)
The patent office will rubber-stamp anything obvious if it is done on a computer. The one-click patent is a wonderful example: for decades, bartenders have been taking a patron's credit card and setting it aside. This allows the patron to simply "run a tab" and order a beer with just one click of the finger. This can't be patented because it is obvious to everyone.
But, if you do it on a computer, you can patent it for some reason. The mind boggles.
Re:But it is on a *computer* (Score:5, Insightful)
The beauty here: this is patenting the problem and not the solution.
Where are the code snippets, the algorithms to detect the motions, the heuristics to reject false positives in this patent application? [uspto.gov]
It would have been so much easier for Edison if he could patent the idea 'glass bulb that produces light when electricity flows through it', instead of actually showing that he could do it.
The USPTO seems to think that this is fine these days though - patenting an idea instead of an invention.
Class action lawsuit possible? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Please do that.
But you'll have to come up with a metric for "innovation", because the number of patents registered is what governments use today ... We know sucks, but come up with a better one.
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If only that was the worst part. We can't even get the USPTO to look at nearly ubiquitous prior art, much less get it to actually require non-obviousness.
The one click patent is a perfect example. They managed to allow a patent on a process that had been in use in country stores for well over a century just because it was to be done with a computer rather than with index cards in a box behind the counter. I have to wonder what rock the examiner lives under that he wouldn't have been aware of that.
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But the plaintiff class should be all the computer users in the world who are prevented from having useful software.
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If you've got Parkinson's Disease, this could get really expensive.
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If you've got Parkinson's Disease, this could get really expensive.
I'm thinking about a friend of mine who's got mild-to-moderate Tourette's syndrome (I am not making this up). He could go broke in a matter of minutes.
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The patent office hasn't required a physical model - a "working model" - since 1880. The sole remaining exception is the perpetual motion machine.
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so if you do it on a computer and big then it's special?
It wasn't a patent on some kind of new system which allowed stock control and shipping over twenty warehouses in ten states, 27 million cataloged items in books alone, Quarterly sales around $5 billion dollars etc etc etc
they patented the idea of being able to order what you want with a click.
my local bartended knows my usual, I can sit down with some friends, catch his eye and perhaps catch his attention with a click and he'll deliver my order to me a
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absolutely not.
For the traditional car analogy:
You can innovate your way around a patent on a specific brake design.
There is no way to innovate your way around a box in a flowchart reading [slows car down]
there IS need for specific code because otherwise you don't have a specific invention.
"then some idiot would claim that if they wrote it in C# that their version doesn't infringe on your patent."
And if you specify iron parts then some idiot might build it out of steel and claim that it doesn't infringe on
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I thought that simply automating a non-automated process is not sufficient to obtain a patent.
You are talking about robotics here. Of course that automating a manual process deserves a patent. That doesn't make it automatically innovating but replacing a human task by an automatic process is often a non trivial process.
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True, but when was the last time the PO did their job?
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I thought that simply automating a non-automated process is not sufficient to obtain a patent.
So if I develop an automated brain surgeon, that should not be eligible for patent protection?
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Not only is he doing it, he's doing it in real time.
But if you're looking for prior art, look no further than Rainbows End [amazon.com], which envisions a world of crap like this.
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Thank you for researching this.
From the excerpt that you provided, their "method" sounds an awful lot like an algorithm to me, and algorithm's are not patentable. So perhaps there should be a class action against all business method patents, since many of them - perhaps all? - might constitute algorithms.
Perhaps business method patents are a sham, because they are simply too easy to come up with. As such, as a class, I think that they do not meet the requirement for non-obviousness.
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What is the human brain but a portable computing device? And it's not much of a stretch in my opinion to see a person's body language as a sort of GUI (raises two fingers, mouths the word "beer" to the bartender, and points to the bar in front of himself.)
But Amazon will be happ
Meh. (Score:2)
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What will be next? (Score:5, Funny)
I'd like to see that... Now where is that patent application form?
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I suspect there will probably be a 1 hard on ordering system for porn.
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Loop breaker: Viagra.
Re:What will be next? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent post made me LOL but unfortunately an ad saw this, misinterpreted it, and I now own an IBM z10 mainframe.
I'd cry but I'm afraid that Amazon would notice.
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It's not a bug, it's a feature.
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I'm sure the dude at demotivationals has that already. Now, don't you feel depressed? Go buy a T-shirt.
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.
Not exactly innovative. (Score:5, Insightful)
He wants a patent on a centuries old auction bid technique? But on a computer? Whateva... besides, there must be plenty of published techniques for more generic movement-as-input already - it's been a popular research topic.
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He wants a patent on a centuries old auction bid technique? But on a computer?
This comment is exemplary of a common misconception in patents. They are not covering the results! They are covering the mechanism and methodology. The "machine" if you will. The patent would cover a specific method for interpreting/receiving/whatever the gesture and passing it along to the service so it would do the expected thing. There could be a thousand ways to do this, and thus, a thousand different patents that all accomplished the same thing, and that's okay. Reality is, there are usually only
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This comment is exemplary of a common misconception in patents. They are not covering the results! They are covering the mechanism and methodology.
All well and good, but it's still pretty fricken obvious to those skilled in the art. Most of us would just think it's a bad idea right now until computer vision catches up to make it reliable.
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All well and good, but it's still pretty fricken obvious to those skilled in the art.
If its so obvious.. then why this:
Most of us would just think it's a bad idea right now until computer vision catches up to make it reliable.
He explained to you what patents entail, and then you go on and confuse patents with results, again.
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He explained to you what patents entail, and then you go on and confuse patents with results, again.
There is no confusion. My point is that it's a fricken obvious process just waiting for technology to catch up to make it a non-stupid process to implement (I could look at trends and go and patent some clever ways of flying to Mars, but until the scientists and engineers figure out how actually to do it...). What he needs is other people to do the hard work for him so he can leverage off their research. Call it good business if you like, but it still looks like patent trolling to me.
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I am entirely amazed that you can't tell the difference.
A real-world hands-on example is Apples Pinch-Zoom.
They have not patented zooming. They have not patented zooming with a touch interface. They have patented zooming by using a pinch gesture detected with a specific methodology.
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E]In embodiments utilizing a Web server, the Web server can run any of a variety of server or mid-tier applications, including HTTP servers, FTP servers, CGI servers, data servers, Java servers, and business application servers. The server(s) also may be capable of executing programs or scripts in response requests from user devices, such as by executing one or more Web applications that may be implemented as one or more scripts or programs written in any programming language, such as Java.RTM., C, C# or C++, or any scripting language, such as Perl, Python, or TCL, as well as combinations thereof. The server(s) may also include database servers, including without limitation those commercially available from Oracle.RTM., Microsoft.RTM., Sybase.RTM., and IBM.RTM..
As you can see, there is no methodology described -- only a high-level description of software that *could* be used to facilitate the process. This patent contains no algorithms; only descriptions of component parts.
(Unfortunately I can't look at the images to see what they contain, as I refuse to install quicktime -- I don't want to deal with resetting
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I'm going to patent the "raise hand to bid" auction system... but on a computer!
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Suggested prior art (Score:2, Interesting)
In patents, it's just the claims that count (that's what the monopoly is on).
For most of the claims, the "Mind Reading Machines" display at the Royal Society Summer Exhibition 2006, and associated papers from University of Cambridge, seems like prior art. It analysed facial expressions to infer affective state, charting estimates (on the user interface) of how likely it was that the user was expressing interest, confusion, etc. (So, lots of changing the UI based on analysing video images and motion of par
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Even worse, the process can so obviously go wrong it's become a sitcom trope. I can well imagine that a computerized system could bring that trope to life. Have one seizure and suddenly half of Amazon's inventory is being shipped to your house.
Why this is a classic bullshit patent (Score:2)
Motion recognition is not new. The claimed "invention" here is purely the business use to which the recognised motion is put.
This is like if I invent the pen, and you then patent using a pen to sign a contract, or draw a doodle. Holy shit, you're a frikkin' genius!
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Amazon patented that last year - http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/06/Amazon_patents_electronic_pen_technology_49100176.html [techflash.com] (see patent here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,546,524.PN.&OS=PN/7,546,524&RS=PN/7,546,524 [uspto.gov] )
"An electronic input device such as an electronic pen is provided to annotate a paper document. The input device records an annotation and an image of
1-Touch balls buy (Score:5, Funny)
I want to buy when I touch my balls.
And if I have an erection I want to buy with fastest shipping method.
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Nice! You just exposed the longest existing prior art in history ... based on how services are acquired in the oldest profession.
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I wonder though, Skapare, how well do you know AC that you can assert he is indeed the longest?
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With as many comments AC posts on /. everyone should know him well :-)
What I have at http://en.swpat.org (Score:3, Informative)
If this gets granted, the 1-click example shows that even if it's invalid, the review process is sometimes completely useful because takes so many years and often just results in narrowing the patent.
my typo s/useful/useless/ (Score:2)
Carp. That should read "useless". My subconscious is just so positive.
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Carp. That should read "useless". My subconscious is just so positive.
s/Carp/Crap/
crumbs are crumbs (Score:2)
Ok, but waiting (and working) years for a single patent to be reviewed, and then only a portion gets invalidated?
I know it's better than nothing, but crumbs are crumbs.
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Because they haven't been shown to be beneficial to society at large versus not granting anything to begin with, particularly when in the time it took you to narrow down a single patent to a not-so-harmful form a thousand others have slipped you by.
It's been done before... (Score:5, Informative)
To quote Douglas Adams from one of the HHGTTG books (forget which one; it's the one involving the Krikkit):
"Let us bow our heads in payment."
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Slartibartfast floated past, waving.
``It's just a documentary,'' he called out. ``This is not a good bit. Terribly sorry, trying to find the rewind control ...''
``... is what billions of billions of innocent ...''
``Do not,'' called out Slartibartfast floating past again, and fiddling furiously with the thing that he had stuck into the wall of the Room of Informational Illusions and which was in fact still stuck there, ``agree to buy anything at this point.'' ... [SNIP SNIP SNIP] ...
Slartibartfast floated pa
Say no more . . . some bloke in the pub . . . (Score:3, Funny)
. . . was bothering me the other night "with a nod, a smile or even a raise of the eyebrow." And his inquiries if my wife was interested in "candid photography."
Was he infringing on Amazon's patent?"
a raised eyebrow or smile? (Score:2)
Movement Recognition as Input Mechanism (Score:2)
United States Patent Application 20100125816 MOVEMENT RECOGNITION AS INPUT MECHANISM [uspto.gov]
From the claims, it looks like it is limited to a portable computing device:
1. A method of interacting with a graphical user interface on a portable computing device, comprising:obtaining a first image using an imaging element of the portable computing device, the first image including a facial feature of a user of the portable computing device;obtaining a second image using the imaging element, the second image including
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From an obviousness standpoint, that's not really interesting. A laptop is portable, for instance.
The "wherein" clause at the end is pretty amusing, though, and it actually makes it harder to reject the claim using, for example, a security surveillance system.
It should also be noted that the claims don't really have any specifics about e-commerce. They're claiming a scope that more generally encompasses any facial-feature-based input device.
WWSWHD? (Score:5, Funny)
I want to bet this system will be so sensitive it will lead to a lot of 'purchases', which will be defended in court with reasoning along the lines of: "our patented method can even detect the body language of subconscious wants and needs with over 99% accuracy, which is a higher success rate than our patented 'one click buy' button which has a slightly higher error rate because of accidental clicks."
>>> FAST FORWARD >>>
Year 2042 history books describing the rise of the Amazon mega-conglomerate identify this patent as the most important one in Amazon's history:
This of course would lead to the infamous landmark lawsuit of Amazon VS Stephen Hawking who had an Amazon pop-up on his wheelchair-computer and accidentally ordered everything on Amazon.com by staring blankly at the screen...
The argument of SWH's lawyers that he could not possibly operate a Segway for lack of motor control and thus had no use for it - and did not want to order it - was refuted by the Amazon legal team because, according to them, "the lack of motor control gave him the strong subconscious urge to walk an do all the things a walking man can do, and thus order a Segway".
After losing this exhausting case Stephen commented: "One cannot really argue with a mathematical theorem, but it is clear that intelligence has no long-term survival value.".
This legal tactic that set a precedent causing a new advertising phenomenon called 'drive by shopping'. Every pop-up ad from Amazon now has a mandatory purchase when you look at it, because they can prove 'without a doubt' you *want* to purchase the items they sell using their unique patented method...
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I want to bet this system will be so sensitive it will lead to a lot of 'purchases',
Bender, in Sotheby's: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
Sotheby's auctioneer: "Sold."
Bender: "The guy sitting next to me will pay."
Fry: "Huh? What?"
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Drive-by (or should that be drive-buy) shopping:
Amazon's crack team of shopping specialists cruise the streets, taking orders from every gesture or grimace performed in every front yard and every living room in America. For added convenience, a shopping drone will penetrate those pesky closed-up rooms, ensuring that no shopper's fantasy goes unfilled!
Opera ASA has prior art (Score:3, Funny)
Introducing Opera Face Gestures [opera.com]
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Look at the dates:
Bezos filed on December 10, 2008 and the page you cited was dated April 1, 2009.
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What's the point? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, what's the point of this? Ordering things online is already easy. Does Bezos really think there's a whole untapped market out there of people who would like to buy something but find clicking links too exhausting? I wonder how those customers managed to navigate his website in the first place.
It's not my bag. (Score:4, Funny)
We see by your expression that you really like this Swedish made penis enlarger. One has been ordered in your name. Additionally, we have posted a "like" on your Facebook page as well as posting a Twitpic on your twitter account. Please smile again if you would like to cancel this operation.
Don't browse Amazon sitting at a cafe outside (Score:3, Funny)
Presently, your friend Bob comes walking down the street. "Hey Bob!" you say, waving and nodding. Your browser starts loading a new page. "Purchase confirmed." DOH!!
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'Eight stroke' option could work... (Score:2)
for porn sites. They'd know we weren't just passing through.
2-click patent (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to patent (Score:2)
I'm going to patent making obvious claims in patents. And then I am never going to license it.
"Oh, let's patent auction signals with a computer, because, it's a COMPUTER"
It's a good thing Jeff wasn't in charge of building the first computers. We'd still be supplicating to the high priests of ENIAC to please run our computations, pretty please, and we'll get you coffee.
Maybe someone should patent "Impacting the face of Jeff Bezos with a rectilinear lump of fired red clay" and implement it.
--
BMO
Oh, I forsee a lot of return packets (Score:2)
Amazon: Here's a few suggestions based on your previous choices. ...
Customer: Huh? What's that? (click)
Amazon: A huge horse dildo because you ordered a My Little Pony Video
Customer (eyes go wide) what the
Amazon: Thank you for your order.
Hasn't this already been done? (Score:2)
Wasn't there something like this in one of the Hitchhikers' Guide books?
A Company called DevExpress has prior art (Score:2)
Just watch their video!
http://tv.devexpress.com/#dxhelmet.movie [devexpress.com]
in other news... (Score:2, Funny)
In other news... Michael J. Fox has declared bankruptcy.
Is there a 'stupid' tag ? (Score:3, Insightful)
How many things does a sneeze buy? (Score:2)
With apologies... (Score:2)
With apologies to Douglas Adams
Great idea, no downsides (Score:2)
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Quick, someone patent audio input... (Score:2)
...and open-license it so we can make sure that we can still freely submit a purchase order by farting and burping without receiving a C&D letter.
Jeff Bozos (Score:2)
FTS:
Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is seeking attention
FTFY.
The 0-click shopping is even better! (Score:2)
0-click-shopping: Buy something *unless* you press a button :)
Do Not Want (Score:2)
"1-nod" is an even worse idea. People might end up buying something just because of a "smile or even a raise of the eyebrow"? If Amazon actually managed to convince a lot of people to sig
Star Trek (Score:2)
Spock: (Raising eyebrow) "Fascinating Captain -- Oh, darn!"
A large thankyou (Score:2)
It's great to see the people behind this patent push and the original creator/s of the idea are making such a positive, wide-reaching impact on the world with exciting, unique and creative flashes of genius such as the One Nod Purchase (tm)(tm). The world would indeed be a poorer, empty, purposeless wasteland without their insights (and insights like them).
I wish them all the best. No really.
THANKYOU AMAZON SMILEY/NODDY/HAPPY TEAM. (Much hugs - your no. 1 fan.)
Re:Online auctioning ? (Score:4, Funny)
SOLD!
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Profit!
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Sometimes I think that is exactly what Amazon wants.
They secretly hate the patent system and want to bring it down entirely by demonstrating how broken it is.
Only problem is; they didn't think it would go on this long and they're running out of stupid ideas.
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Oh @#!$, I just bought a Britney Spears teenage pregnancy collector's doll from the amazon landing page.
My kid moves his head to the music he's listening to and just bought the whole Internet.