EU Demands Canada Gut Its Copyright and Patent Laws 324
An anonymous reader writes "Late last year, a draft of the European Union proposal for the
intellectual property chapter of Canada, EU Comprehensive Economic
Trade Agreement, leaked online.
The leak revealed that the EU was seeking some significant changes to
Canadian IP laws. Negotiations have continued and Michael Geist
has now obtained an updated copy
of the draft chapter, complete with proposals from both the EU and
Canada. He says the breadth of the demands is stunning — the EU
is demanding nothing less than a complete overhaul of Canadian IP laws
including copyright, trademark, databases, patent, geographic
indications, and even plant variety rights."
Our new overlords (Score:3, Funny)
I, for one, welcome our new EU Overlords!
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And our new overlords welcome EU! ... wait, I think I'm mixing too many memes now.
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Re:Our new overlords (a different meme) (Score:5, Funny)
Would that be "Up yours, mate!" or "May I have some more, sir?"
You're thinking of Australia. Our response would be "Up yours, eh?"
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Looking at the recent history of Australia, I wouldn't count on it...
Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Global harmonization through treaties is creating a race to the bottom as far as the citizen's general welfare is concerned.
I can't imagine why Canada is still negotiating such a treaty when it seems to be so insanely one-sided.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why do the citizens elect such a government then? I think the problem is that once we have given our government the power to dispose of $3.5 trillion of our money, supposedly on our behalf, annually the corruption is inevitable because it is down to the arbitrary decisions by the government bureaucrats as to who wins and who loses a share of that loot. If we have not made the government so big and powerful, the corporations
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because all sides are equally in the pockets of corps. Different corps maybe, but corps non the less.
end result is that the only options are crackpot politicians that may well start ww3 over a obscure holy book quote, or refuse to vote at all.
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Because our gov. cares more about the well being of corporations then its citizens.
Nonsense. You must not be living in the same Canada as me.
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The EU wants your artistic brains and Francophone culture.
Make the US and the EU pay for both.
Let the US feel market forces and flood the EU with low cost French and English culture.
As for the length of copy control on works, talk to some local Canadian artists,musicians, lawyers, playwrights, authors and filmmakers.
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flood the EU with low cost French and English culture
Like Michael Bublé, Bryan Adams & Céline Dion...
Harsh!
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I'm pretty sure they count as terrorism and are against the Geneva Conventions.
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It is difficult to say one way or the other as there is no way to see what things would be like WITHOUT said treaties.
Wars are more localized to fewer parts of the world in the past 50 years than they were before. Global Trade while it does have several substantial drawbacks comes with many undeniable benefits.
Humanity has reached a point where it can influence and change the global environment, thus it may well become, if it is not already, necessary and vital to our survival for a means of regulation and
Judge Dredd (Score:3, Insightful)
Global harmonization through treaties is creating a race to the bottom as far as the citizen's general welfare is concerned.
When I see films, or read books, such as Judge Dredd I wonder how could this shit become reality? I ask myself whether there would be enough external sources to ensure a general liberty and rights of it citizens? Then I see shit like ACTA and this happening and I suddenly understand - scary.
Feh (Score:5, Funny)
Well, they also demanded we stop the seal hunt. Are they going to request that we all wear visors while playing hockey too? Honestly. How naive.
Re:Feh (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect your government knows who to listen to, just as ours do.
Re:Feh (Score:5, Interesting)
corporations make money if the seal hunt remains?
really?
corporations?
hahahahahahahah.
The seal hunt has never been about profitability. Most seal hunters, while they hope to profit, are hardly corporations making tons of cash. For aboriginals and the atlantic sealers its a tradition and way of life.
Seals are hardly going extinct. And in fact high seal numbers might be threatening populations of less photogenic animals.
The real "corporations" are PETA and their ilk. They make the real money.
Re:Fuck their tradition, fuck their way of life. (Score:5, Informative)
Shooting them is A) the most humane way to go about it
Actually, fun fact: Shooting them isn't necessarily the most humane way to go about it. The problem is that, unless you're a very good shot, you're far more likely to wound the animal rather than killing it outright. But a well-placed strike with a hakapik is very quick and effective in trained hands, comparable with established and acceptable humane killing practices according to the Agreement on International Humane Trapping Standards [wikipedia.org].
As you say, though, the whole thing is massively overblown thanks to organizations like PETA. Hell, in that wikipedia link, there's a rather interesting quote from a WWF study on seal hunting practices:
But, hey, what does the WWF know?
I can't remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can't remember... (Score:5, Funny)
"Fuck off, eh!"
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Don't pronounce the 'h'. Stress the o sound in stead and off is said like ooff. It would kind of sound like
Tuck ooff eh! yo'oser
Re:I can't remember... (Score:5, Informative)
"Excuse me, sir, but would you please be so kind as to fuck off? Sorry to bother you again."
Re:I can't remember... (Score:5, Informative)
How do you say "fuck off" in Canadian?
Fuddle Duddle [wikipedia.org]
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"Vas te faire foutre"
What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, as a Canadian this disgusts me. The EU, the US... What the hell gives these assholes the right to demand ANYTHING?
Makes me absolutely sick to read this. There is nothing wrong with Canada's laws. And that is exactly why they want it changed, so there IS something wrong with it to throw the balance off hugely in favour of coporations.
Despicable.
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Well, everyone can demand everything. I also can demand that you give me a billion euros, immediately. Now, there's little chance that I'll get that, and no one will consider that demand justified, but I can demand it nevertheless.
So, where is my money? :-)
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Probably, but we EUians need those resources. It's not like we got an oilflood somewhere around, or too much timber (well, with a few noteworthy exceptions like Sweden, but given their laws I'd guess they would not enjoy clear-cutting their forests).
You may be desperate to sell, but we're at least as desperate to buy. And, let's face it, it's not like it's hard to sell oil or timber somewhere else.
Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Interesting)
Exports from Canada to the EU are small, and imports from the EU to Canada are also economically insignificant; nearly 80% of Canada's exports go to the US.. The EU doesn't "need" Canada. But the EU could make life pretty unpleasant for Canadians in principle if it starts cancelling other agreements: travel, currency exchange, access to markets, landing rights, port privileges, etc. If Europe and Canada stop cooperating, Canada will degenerate into an appendage of the US even more so than it already is. For Europe, it would simply mean the loss of a fairly small trading partner. Big deal.
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Seriously, as a Canadian this disgusts me. The EU, the US... What the hell gives these assholes the right to demand ANYTHING?
Peace naturally leads to people working together. If we don't want our governments to cooperate we must invent reasons for our governments to hate each other.
Its that simple. See google vs China.
Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Germany here.
Despite the fact that we didn’t ever elect them, they are called “our” government.
Actually, they are more like your enemies.
So if you ever need to throw over the EU pseudo-government, you got allies here.
Just beware, that the reason this is like it is in the first place, is that most people here are cattle too, and we’re not the ones herding them.
"European Elections"? (Score:2)
Since when do we have European elections then? Each time I have to vote in the "European elections", I can only vote for national parties, and the amount of national seats is fixed beforehand. I never had the chance to vote for French socialists, Italian Catholics, the German Green party or any party at all that has an international reputation of being serious in their own ways.
Even though I have voted in these ridiculous "elections", I am still waiting for elections where I can put my vote on the European
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I wouldn't say there's nothing wrong with Canada's laws. Taxes are way too high on beer and cigarettes.
That's part of the price of "free" health-care.
Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, as a Canadian this disgusts me. The EU, the US... What the hell gives these assholes the right to demand ANYTHING?
Calm down, mate. If a chief of some remote Polynesian tribe demands tomorrow that all the pale-skins from the Great White North shall submit to the will of his powerful god Yaka-Yaka, or else suffer his wrath, are you going to pay attention as well?
If not, then treat this case the same way. After all, fundamentally, it is the same.
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I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of Yaka-Yaka.
Well, they have First Nations to take care of that.
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Seriously, as a Canadian this disgusts me. The EU, the US... What the hell gives these assholes the right to demand ANYTHING?
Canada wants to continue to trade with "these assholes" and Canadians want to travel to these "asshole" countries, no? But trade, travel, etc. only exist because these "asshole countries" sign agreements with Canada creating the legal basis for these activities. If Canada stops signing some agreements, then these "asshole countries" may stop signing other agreements that are more i
Just when you thought there was a glimmer of hope (Score:4, Funny)
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Actually, it’s the other way around. This is older.
But I still agree that now I won’t believe any anti-ACTA statement from the EU, until ACTA is dead, buried, and all its successors too.
Commission vs Parliament (Score:4, Informative)
The EU Commission is a non-elected body which has as it sole mandate[1] to restrict the rights of citizens, and extend the rights of EU based corporations. It is the Commission that negotiate these treaties, and in general propose new legislation.
The EU Parliament is an elected body which cannot propose new legislation, but can, and sometimes do, block the proposals from the commission. The good stuff you hear from the EU is usually from the Parliament, but they contribute their share of crap as well, as parliaments do everywhere.
[1] Judging by its actions.
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But you're missing all the important, freedom-loving stuff the European Commission does! For example, just a week ago, the Commission made [europa.eu] an important clarification to the law on padded waistcoats.
It is of course quite plain that winter jackets "are generally worn over other clothing and ensure a protection against the weather (citation omitted) and, consequently, anoraks (including ski-jackets), wind-cheaters, wind-jackets and similar articles falling within those headings must have long sleeves." But you
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The EU commission is nominated by the member state governments. Another executive branch is the Council of the EU (Council of Ministers) which consists of the relevant government ministers from member states (e.g. Agriculture ministers for decisions in Agriculture). Also general direction of the EU is set by the European Council (heads of governments in the EU).
The EU parliament is quite rightly a minor part of EU governance as pretty much all EU member state governments and public want the EU to remain a c
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Currently, the European Parliament doesn't hold much power, although the Lisbon treaty did increase their power somewhat. You will either see idealistic people in the European Parliament, or people who more or less just collect a paycheck.
I'm somewhat afraid though what would happen should the EP get more power. This would suddenly make the members of parliament interesting for the lobbyists, and I wonder how long it will take before the bunch of them start making the same decisions that the EC is currently
The Berne Convention? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Is copyright ancillary to the author, or the author ancillary to the copyright? If human lifespan in becoming longer, shouldn't copyright extensions past an author's life be shortened instead of lengthened? Or does it still hold that the good die young?
As long as the royalties keep flowing, an author's estate is timeless.
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Do the world a favour, kill an author today. Help lower the length of time his/her works are under copyright. Also...someone kill George Lucus...please.
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Don't worry about it, people with real talent mostly die relatively young.
Let me guess... (Score:4, Insightful)
...it doesn't involve granting more protections to the consumer or public interest.
South of the Border (Score:2)
As someone here in the States, I have to say that I hope the Canadians tell everyone to piss off.
Seriously, what's the EU going to do? Invade?
Present the digitus impudicus.
--
BMO
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Canada is not in a position to tell anybody to "piss off", they are far too dependent on the US and the EU.
The place to get things changed is primarily in the US, because the US is both big enough to determine the global agenda and still has a far more functional democracy than the EU.
The EU in principle has the power to do good, but it is hopeless with its anti-democratic Commission, impotent parliament, squabbling national governments, and enormous bureaucracy. The EU make the US look like a shining beac
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Everyone that tries is decried as a loon and it's said they will never be able to change the course of the two party system we've been engrossed in.
At this point, I wish it were true, but someone who's not Republican or Democrat has about a better chance of getting struck by lighting while winning the lottery than gaining control of anything.
Right now is probably the best chance in forever, with Democrats still pissed off at Bush and Republicans pissed off at Obama. I still don't see it happening. All I s
Re:South of the Border (Score:4, Funny)
Present the digitus impudicus.
You hit the nail on the head. If Canada don't comply we'll set Harry Potter and his school chums on you...
For once I agree with Rupert Murdoch ... (Score:2)
Wait for it... (Score:2)
"Notably, the draft includes many new rights for broadcasters. These rights form part of a proposed Broadcast Treaty at WIPO that has failed to achieve consensus. The EU is seeking to build support for the treaty by requiring Canada to implement many new provisions that would give broadcasters a host of new rights and force public places to pay additional fees for carry broadcasts."
So... in other words they want places that provide public benefit to pay more money to people who don't. That's... rationa
Who in the EU is negotiating this? (Score:3, Interesting)
In the EU bureaucracy, power is pretty much split into 3 blocks:
- The European Commission - non-elected, nominated and agreed by and between the countries governments
- The Council of Europe - representatives of each country's governments
- The European Parliement - directly elected
Somehow I suspect this treaty is being negociated by the European Commission, same as ACTA. That would make the "EU's" demands it contains not surprising at all: the Commission is (unsurprisingly) the one force in Europe which is deepest in the pocket of corporate special interests (for example, they were the ones that wanted Software Patents in Europe).
The European Parliement on the other hand tends to side more with Citizens and Consumers (again, unsurprisingly).
The funny bit is that, if the Commission does manage to get this treaty signed by Canada, it might still be voted down in Europe by the European Parliement.
Dear World (Score:5, Interesting)
As one of the few countries in the world whose economy is not absolutely sitting in the toilet, we, the People of Canada, would like to politely ask you all to fuck off, eh. We appreciate your opinions on our intellectual property laws but, given that we're not bordering on bankruptcy and/or forcing our people to live in a Nanny-state like the rest of you seem to be, we are forced to assume we must be doing something right while the rest of you aren't exactly laying down templates of "how it should be done."
We do apologize for the broad generalizations that may be made in this message but, really, the point remains - fuck off, eh. Mind your own damn business and we'll mind our own. We've done pretty well at minding our business and are just fine with things as they are. Thanks.
Sincerely and respectfully, Canada.
Or What? (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously. The USA is by FAR our biggest trading partner. They have been trying to bend us over for years about IP, Copyright and Patent law. If we are not about to capitulate the them, what makes the EU think we give a flying fuck what they say....
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Well the US has been rattling this saber for years now thinking they control us.
Sad thing is the scum in charge like Harper will probably just roll over for legislation that is so biased in favour of the corporations they whore themselves too.
Re:WTH (Score:4, Insightful)
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How's that universe you've imagined for yourself?
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Please, do tell: which corporations control the Canadian government?
If you say "The HUdsons Bay Company", I'll beat you with a beaver tail.
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I live in Alberta, and would fight to the death to stop the US if they ever tried anything.
I'd rather be dead than American.
Re:51 st state? (Score:5, Funny)
You're already American. North American!
lol
Re:51 st state? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's okay, if what I've seen in BC and Ontario is anything to go buy, the rest of Canada would pay you guys to take Alberta in.
Now if they can also somehow ship Quebec off to France, I think it'll be all settled.
~
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But there is no word for USAian which makes sense.
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US-American?
Re:51 st state? (Score:4, Informative)
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Oh there are a few, but I guess they'd all get me modded Troll or Flamebait, so...
That is the idea (Score:2)
That is the idea.
Kind regards,
The USA.
PS, read up on lebensraum, or the trek west. Different direction, same result and tactics.
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I'm Canadian and have lived in several states. Trust me on this one. Both countries are great and each has it's own distinct advantages, but Ottawa is not a trade up.
Canadian politicians are just a corrupt as US politicians. At least the American system has some semblance of checks and balances so no arm of the government supposedly has more power then any other. In Canada there is the Prim Minister (Who really has no more power then his party has seats in the house) and the house. There's also the senate,
Re:Overestimating their power (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it's a treaty. All the Canadians have to do is to not sign it.
Policy laundering (Score:5, Insightful)
In many cases this is a myth, a nice fiction we can tell ourselves to make us feel better. Treaties can be convenient way for governments to institute unpopular measures. Here's how it works:
Keep in mind that the real push for this comes from multinational media corporations. Governments are not negotiating as independent actors: these corporations intervene on all sides to coordinate and even draft proposals. What we really have is a group of likeminded businesses who operate in concert using individual countries as a front. The treaty then appears to be the result of self-interested negotiations between independent actors: in fact the aim is to stage-manage it to appear that way. Given a means to diffuse opposition (e.g. policy laundering), governments - or, more specifically, the relevant politicians and bureaucrats within governments - may find that lobbyists make sure it is in their personal interest to cooperate.
I have no personal knowledge of how this treaty is being negotiated. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I hope that the relevant individuals in government are representing the interests of Canadians. But I have no doubt this is the kind of thing the usual suspects are trying to pull. In which case the suggestion that "we can just say no" neatly conceals what's really happening.
One final point: Canada is in no way the equal of the EU. The EU has over 500 million people to Canada's 32 million. We tend to anthropomorphize negotiations as though countries were freely contracting equal citizens. They aren't. They are unequal powers.
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I think you are wrong. Treaties need to be passed into laws to have any consequence on its population. If you, as an individual, disobey a treaty which is not passed into law, the country or the foreign powers have no recourse against you. If I, as a Canadian school in Canada decide to present a DVD to my class, or make a photocopy of a book, for educative purposes, the US or other countries cannot arrest me.
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you missed one of the steps.
once the treaty is signed there is pressure to pass laws to bring the countries laws into line with the treaty.
Once that's done with if you "decide to present a DVD to my class, or make a photocopy of a book, for educative purposes" then you most certainly can be arrested or fined.
Re:Policy laundering (Score:4, Interesting)
The lock-in is the worst aspect by far. If the government has the majorities to ratify a treaty, fair enough, that's how government and legislation works. However, a few years later, majorities may shift and the former opposition is now the majority. But due to the way the treaty is designed, they might have a very difficult time repealing the treaty and its legislation. So the treaty effectively increases the length of a government's term of power. I guess there should be some constitutional limits to treaties above and beyond those for normal laws. (IANAL, so maybe those already exist in many countries.)
Re:Overestimating their power (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Overestimating their power (Score:4, Funny)
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A message to start growing their own. It's not like they don't have land in Canada.
Re:Overestimating their power (Score:5, Interesting)
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Ah, so you think that the EU has the right to dictate Canadian law?
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Well, Canada is a subject state to British crown, and Britain is a member of the EU...
More seriously, no, of course EU doesn't have the right to dictate to non-members. On the other hand, EU certainly does have the right to tax or outright ban imports from outside the union. Should Eu try to influence Canadian law by threatening to tax Canadian imports; now that is the question.
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No, they would switch to EU beef and cattle (which wouldn't be import taxed), and Canada would lose a lot of exports.
Not that I'm saying it would work, that's the GP's point.
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If the imports result in enough money to actually cause Canada any problems, it is highly unlikely that the EU has the capacity to fill that demand. A market like this isn't something you can expand at a day's notice.
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The EU can demand all they want. This country in not part of the EU and we are quite happy with the way we've updated our copyright and patent laws. If they want to economically strong arm Canada into signing, we can just say no thank-you. Its not like we buy anything from Europe anyways. Except for, I'm sorry, nothing comes to mind, that we cannot produce here. In fact, it might be a great political move for our Prime Minister who needs LOTS of political capital.
Re:What about the power of US? (Score:5, Informative)
Canadian IP laws explicitly legalize fair use (e.g. format-shifting), and even limited nonprofit sharing of copyrighted works (due to fee on "recordable media"). Canada doesn't have software patents, nor any kind of DMCA-like anti-circumvention provision.
In what way do Canadian laws "mirror those in the US"? If anything, I'd say it's one of the better countries in terms of those, which is precisely why USA govt has been throwing a hissy fit about Canadian IP laws for several years now.
Re:Overestimating their power (Score:4, Insightful)
You guys really should read up on international politics once in a while. Not only does the EU wield enough power to do this, they have already done this against the US with steel- the European Union is estimated at 500 million people (2010), that is a really big export market, taxes need not rise 4000% to get the message across.
Canada primarily deals with U.S. [statcan.gc.ca], any EU economic ties are relatively marginal compared to that. It's not really a big stick. Oh, sure, it would hurt, but nowhere near enough, especially since, once it's applied, it would become a matter of principle to not give in.
Also, such measures hurt the one applying them as well. Which is why they can only be used with noticeable effect in a situation where the other side is at a significant disadvantage (e.g. they primarily export to you, but you import from nay other places). Which is not the case here.
Then, of course, the laws being demanded would also have an economic effect, and one could easily argue that it would be negative overall.
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Yeah, we could all start eating British beef...
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Brazil will be happy to sell more beef to EU.
Re:Since when? (Score:4, Interesting)
It is, in the same way that Australia was treated as an extension of the USA during the "negotiation" of last "free" trade agreement between our nations. The result? Australia ended up with a DMCA-wannabe and extended copyright terms or lost other trade items. I particularly like the "Australia's IP laws will be substantially harmonised with the world’s largest intellectual property market, and a global leader in innovation and creative products." arse-kissing exercise. I'm sure that any Canada-EU equivalent will contain similar gems in English and French!
http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us_fta/outcomes/08_intellectual_property.html [dfat.gov.au]
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So long as people keep wanting to buy Britney / Lada Gaga albums, watch US sitcoms (oh lord, why!), or import US I.P. in one form or another they are putting themselves into a weak position of negotiation against unwanted foreign I.P. laws.
You can have the turkish delight, but it comes with a price.
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The result? Australia ended up with a DMCA-wannabe and extended copyright terms or lost other trade items.
So Aussie signed the "DCMA-wannabe" deal so it did not lose trade on other items. But guess what, Australia LOST ANYWAY [wikipedia.org], and got the DCMA rammed in for its trouble. Well, at least the politicians involved got their kick backs and personal perks, I guess.