UK ID Cards Could Be Upgraded To Super ID Cards 197
An anonymous reader writes "Gadget lovers are used to punishing upgrade cycles but now it seems that the British ID card could be replaced with a 'super' ID card just a couple of years after the first one was released. The new card could be used to buy goods or services online, or to prove identity over the web. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for the people who have already paid £30 for a 1st gen card that can't do any of these things."
It's not a kick in the teeth for anyone. (Score:5, Insightful)
No one thinks 'well, we've sold a bunch of these, we'd better stop innovating now in case we annoy the people who bought Version 1'. Buying something, then a few years later a better version coming along is not a "kick in the teeth". It's progress.
If the best argument you can come up with against "super ID cards" is that they're not fair on people with ordinary ID cards then you need to go back to Civil Liberties School.
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I thought it was a joke on Apple's product cycle and not a commentary on civil liberties, but silly me...
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Aside from first class, I'm not sure that planes would be more comfortable these days.
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Somehow, people didn't seem to understand that if the gu
Not really (Score:5, Funny)
It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for the people who have already paid £30 for a 1st gen card that can't do any of these things.
Yes, all 6 of them.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Funny)
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6? There's that many out there now?
If they actually care, I'd imagine they'd be more upset at the fact that ID cards are almost certainly not going to survive the next election in a couple of months more than anything.
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Yes, because it's simply unaffordable.
At worst they'll keep some of the components of it that have been paid for but then, the Tories have said this all along- specifically, the parts relating to biometric passports.
What they wont be interested in is a national role out and mandating of cards for everybody or further expansion of the scheme.
What the hell as a false EU promise referendum got to do with ID cards? It's entirely irrelevant and a completely different situation. I'm not a Tory support (I'm tentat
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"What the hell"? Well, one of us is definitely an angry little chap.
In the real world, the contracts will have been signed years ago, and it'll cost any government more to weasel out of them than it will to press ahead.
Not that any government gives a damn about costs - it's not their money that they're spending. The only equation is votes gained or lost. Since all you "tentative" types will vote Lib Dem anyway, the only consideration is lost votes from lost jobs.
When you've joined the adult world,
Re:Not really (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, sorry, you're completely right. You won me over with your awesome trolls and insults, they gave such a compelling background to your comments about how it'll cost more to drop the contracts than pay the get-out compensation, I just didn't know how you could possibly be wrong afterwards.
Your ability to see the future is amazing, you're right, I just know it now, I will vote Lib Dem, you're totally right, I mean, why didn't I see it? It couldn't possibly be the case that someone would be capable of changing their political affiliation through time depending on how different parties act or anything could it? I mean this is the UK, we don't vote for parties based on their policies or actions do we? That'd be stupid! We do it because we pick one, probably the one our parents supported, and support it like a football team, and who wouldn't support their favourite team no matter what right?
No, really though, the National Identity Register contract has been awarded to IBM and paid for already, the enrollment contract has been awarded to CSC and paid for already, these two contracts totalled £650m. The contract to produce the initial cards for the trial (which is due to last around 3 more years under a continued Labour government) was awarded to Thales, at £18m, this has also already been paid for. The total cost of the scheme until 2017 has been filed by Labour as £5.7bn, thus, any incoming government can save at least £5bn on the scheme by ceasing it, it is only the remaining £0.7bn that would be lost at most- money that could really be used to help cut the deficit right now, but still not enough to deter cancelling the scheme and enjoying the £5bn over 10 year savings.
Regarding the "ID card industry", of the three companies that won the contracts, 2 are American, 1 is French, so there's no more than a negligible benefit to UK industry from pursuing the scheme.
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It is slightly different in theory- the biometric passport just means your passport can be verified by your biometrics. The ID card scheme was a problem because it was designed to be your entire identity document, if someone copies a biometric passport it'll be useless because in the cases where the passport is required (i.e. airports) it wont be valid because the biometrics wont match.
If however they clone your identity card it will be used in a variety of circumstances where biometrics aren't checked whic
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That's charmingly naive. You seriously think that Cameron will hold to his promise to cancel ID cards? [google.co.uk]
Not a Tory*, but "Dave" was absolutely right that a referendum post ratification would be pointless. They were idiots for promising one in the first place.
On the issue of the ID card; both opposition parties have pledged to drop the card and it has stopped being a vote winner to the extent that even Labour have rolled back the extent of the scheme. Now that cuts are needed it's an obvious, symbolic, target, but I'll keep donating to no2id [no2id.net] to keep the pressure up to try and make sure that the NIR [wikipedia.org] is droppe
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None of the parties can afford to keep them.
Even Labour has damped down their plans for them.
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It's always been my dream ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's always been my dream to be profiled by law enforcement on the basis of my shopping.
Who knows, maybe my toilet paper buying habits exactly match those of a known terrorist and the men in black will single me out for "special attention". After all, who doesn't want to be incarcerated for 28 days without actually being accused of anything because of buying "the supermarket's brand in packs of 4 in average once every two months" just like the terrorists.
The good news is that using a Government provided electronic ID card for shopping will bring me closer to my dream.
Re:It's always been my dream ... (Score:5, Funny)
A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
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A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
That's how we know he's a terrorist!
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That's how we know he's a terrorist!
It just seemed like too much fertilizer for such a small plot.
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Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me?
How is this different to debit and credit cards? And travel cards like the Oyster card?
I was always surprised that the UK ID card was less capable than the Estonian ID card. Who had the brilliant idea to introduce a National ID card that can't authenticate over the internet? Seriously, it would actually be quite useful to have one standardised, secure card that could be used to authenticate with banks etc. The security arrangements at the moment are woefully inadequate, and a physical token will add another
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Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me?
How is this different to debit and credit cards? And travel cards like the Oyster card?
As far as I know, the oyster-card is not linked to your personal identity. It's anonymous. You can get a new one at any time.
Did I miss something?
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Oyster can be paid for with cash at ticket shops and some of the larger automated machines. The only form of payment which is accepted in all locations is debit/creditcard.
Obviously there are good techincal reasons why cash can only be accepted in some places - not least the phyiscal size of the automated ticket machines in very confined spaces if cash dispensers are needed, but there is still a little voice at the back of my mind saying that a link between your oyster card and the name/address of the credi
Re:It's always been my dream ... (Score:4, Interesting)
This is actually how I use my Oyster card: never register, always pay in cash.
I also change it for a new one once in a while.
£3 every couple of months is a great price to pay for a little bit of insurance if Britain ever goes the final bit down the way to Police State.
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You have to specifically apply for them, can choose which bank/credit card issuer you like and if the card is lost or stolen it dosn't expose lots of personal information.
And travel cards like the Oyster card?
This also has one specific purpose, paying for travel. If you lose it all someone who finds it can do is travel, at least until you cancel it.
Seriously, it would actually be quite useful to have one standardised, secure card that could be used to
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How is this different to debit and credit cards?
Well there's the rather obvious point that they're not compulsory. You don't have to use them if you're worried, plus people can have different cards, which makes it harder to gather all the information. And if my credit card company blocks my card, I can go to another company.
And travel cards like the Oyster card?
I haven't registered mine, and pay with cash. How do they track me, exactly? Plus again, it's optional.
Seriously, it would actually be quite useful
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
Simple ! Use BOTH sides.
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A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
Save up all your Number Twos for the office! Why do it on your own time and use your own toilet paper, when you can use theirs and get paid for it? :)
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Sir,
Like you and many geeks (hence your moderation), you appear to exhibit OCD in the form of toilet paper usage. Let's do a quick back of the toilet paper calculation:
A popular search engine search for +sheets +toilet +paper reveals around five hundred (500) sheets per roll. Multiplied by four rolls, this comes to two thousand (2,000) sheets.
Now, reputable journal Toilet Paper World [toiletpaperworld.com] quotes Charmin's figure of 8.6 sheets per trip, "a total of 57 sheets per day". This figure is unlikely to refer to male usag
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A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
One up, one down, and one to polish off
No girlfriend, obviously... (Score:2)
A roll can easily last a few weeks without female presence. With a female in the house a roll lasts a couple of days, max (don't ask me where it goes, I don't know). I have no direct experience but I assume the effect scales with multiple females.
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I sh*t at Work.
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A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?
That's all part of his cunning plan to make sure he's as unattractive for "special attention" as possible ;-)
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You haven't met my son, have you...
Most people are not bothered (Score:4, Informative)
Most people in the UK are happy to be profiled in exchange for financial benefits. When the Tesco Clubcard was introduced it was so popular that people stopped shopping at other supermarkets like Sainsburys, which then had to introduce their own "loyalty card" schemes. Tesco announced last year that there are now 16 million active clubcards in the UK [marketingmagazine.co.uk]. As a comparison point there are around 25 million households in the UK , so a significant number of British households are having their shopping profiled in detail already.
Re:Most people are not bothered (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't really care if the guys who sell me cola profile me, their motive is simple- profit.
I do care if the people who have guns and the power to have me locked up profile me, their motives are complex and involved power, politics and money.
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I do care if the people who have guns and the power to have me locked up profile me
They already have that power. How does tracking your yogurt-buying habits change that?
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I don't really care if the guys who sell me cola profile me, their motive is simple- profit.
Not to mention that I spelled my name inaccurately on their application.
One of the loyalty cards I carry is in the name (and former address) of my late mother-in-law. Also cuts down on junk mail.
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and they sell your profile to the government... for profit
As UK law currently stands, that would be a breech of the data protection act.
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Not if the government declares it necessary for national security.
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Not if the government declares it necessary for national security.
Then the government wouldn't bother buying it, they'd simply take it; still no profit involved (for the corps.).
one step less into our privacy peers (Score:2)
I'd rather like to have a few steps inbetween before the government gets a full profile over me; not that I'm buying terrorist goods in our supermarket but rather because I'd like to have my own privacy too; which kind of brands of toilet paper I consume.
By taking away every piece of the chain this gives the UK government unfettered access to any buyers profile of their citizens.
Such things should only happen with a court order; instead of profiling an entire country in order to select the terrorist next do
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> Most people in the UK are happy to be profiled in exchange for financial benefits.
I'm not sure this is quite accurate - what proportion of people with those store cards have even the faintest clue what the profiling involves, or even that it is happening?
They will have signed up for the card on the basis of getting vouchers in return for shopping at ther same place. Even if the application form said anything specific about profiling - doubtful, as it would be in terms of 'we may use information' - it w
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I happen to think they pay me fairly well for my spending data, unlike all these websites who steal my data. I spend my ClubCard points on Xbox games. Four a year, I reckon.
Tescos are like Google in my eyes. I give them something, they give me something in return. I'm hap
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I don't know if you silly 'subjects of the crown' do this, but I've never had a loyalty card for over a week. I swap them around and get new ones all the time.
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At the same address you used for the last card?
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Does the Tesco card:
* Cost £60?
* Require fingerprints to be handed over?
* Allow Tesco to know all purchases, at any shop, whether the shopper uses the card or not? (You do realise that if I was that worried on a particular occasion, I could simply not use the card - plus, Tesco isn't likely to be the main source of privacy concern in terms of shopping. Tesco can't see someone's private purchases made elsewhere.)
Do Tesco have the ability:
* To arrest shoppers based on suspicious purchaces?
* To fine you
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Most people already have a card with which they can shop and that uniquely identifies them in their credit card.
Yes, you can in some cases buy stuff with a stolen or copied credit card but, at least here, you often get asked to identify yourself with an ID card or by providing a PIN-code to prove that you are the actual holder of the credit card when shopping in a real store.
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
One single card that absolutely verifies who you are AND accesses all your finances. What a wonderful idea! What could possibly go wrong?
One card... (Score:5, Funny)
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With apologies to you know who
V.. v.. v-v-voldemort?
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Whoever modded that redundant clearly has no knowledge of Lord of the Rings..
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Nah. Any idiot can watch the movies and believe himself to be a nerd nowadays. However real nerds know all about Tom Bombadil...
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This is why I like cash. It has some other guy's picture on it.
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Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh god, the horror. We've had that since forever on VISA cards here in Norway, the banks have authority to issue government approved ids so some banks will issue a double function card with id on the back above the magnetic stripe. It's quite practical for people that don't have a driver's license or one card less if you're getting drunk and won't be driving anyway. Unless you really have anonymous bank accounts putting the information the bank has on file on your card is a convienience, not a problem. The money flows via the banks not the government though, pretty important point.
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Pretty soon we'll be swiping them to open our cares/houses. Consumer nirvana!
Wow, that's great. (Score:4, Insightful)
So I can have my identity AND my money stolen, together with everything else!
Wait, let me just quickly forge one of $currentDummyGovernmentLeader. You know... for the nasty stuff. ^^
I'm sorry citizen... (Score:5, Insightful)
You cannot post on this web forum without first verifying your identity with the UK government. From the article:
THIS is how they plan to implement the draconian measures in the DEB. They want all Internet activity linked to an ID card system that they control (and whose data they can sell). Am I being paranoid? My wife would say so. But if currently legislation pans out - and the incoming government have made no indications they wish to change direction - then the government will have on one hand an unworkable set of Internet regulations and another hand a technological solution that could potentially make it work. They will also have very rich men offering financial incentives to link the two.
The fact this will kill Internet freedom in this country stone dead is completely irrelevant to them. As with so many other aspects of life, career politicians simply do not care because they are outside their very narrow experiences, which have been aimed at public office for basically their entire life.
These people select themselves for leadership at private school (if Tory) or at university (if Labour or Lib Dem) - and never venture out of that world to experience the life, work, and leisure of ordinary human beings.
Re:I'm sorry citizen... (Score:5, Informative)
These people select themselves for leadership at private school (if Tory) or at university (if Labour or Lib Dem)
What on earth makes you think the Labour and Lib Dem MPs all went to state schools? Have you forgotten the minor scandal a few years ago over certain high-profile Labour MPs sending their kids to private school?
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I never said they went to state school; I said their self-selection for political life most likely occurred at university. Where as Tory political power is built through the infamous 'old boy' network, Labour and Lib Dem power is more traditionally forged in student politics.
Which is why student elections piss me off so much. I see the candidates standing and I know that amongst them are another Blair or a Mandelson.
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It's how the system works.
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Depending on the university or college you attend, there will be a (small) group of political organisations who traditionally dominate local student politics, and have the infrastructure (and possibly the cash) to prevent independents and candidates from other political groups from winning elections.
My 1st university (in the West of Scotland) was dominated by one political group (Labour Students - the West of Scotland elects anything with a Labour rosette). "Independent candidates" were non-Labour Students
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It's quite a step from being able to identify yourself securely over the internet and being forced to do so under all circumstances.
For some website to require you to divulge your identity for the privilege of posting is something I would find acceptable, it's their forum after all. For the government to mandate that every website was to do this would be both stupid and unenforceable.
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"all" internet activity is a bit of a stretch. I would say that it would be more like "all the services on direct.gov" like paying your taxes, updating car tax and anything else that is currently accessed via the login credentials they sent you some time ago - I have a little card somewhere with those details on that I use to do my taxes online.
I don't think they have any intention of making it a requirement to "log into the internet" as a whole.
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Some could say this is slippery slope argument but I'm not one of them. And I assure everyone that I'm not a typical paranoid tinfoil-hat-wearing-guy :) I'm just concerned about our rights.
I don't know much about UK but where I live our rights have been reduced little by little. Recently government gave rights to companies to spy on their employees' web traffic. There are limitations to what you can spy upon but it's a start and in couple of years who know if these limitations are to be relaxed. And in fact
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Yeah, because the Tories can be trusted to keep their promises. How touchingly naive of you.
So what if I generalised? It was clear I was generalising, and its true. Unless you believe this 'Dave' crap that your party press office is trying to put out?
A kick in the teeth... for whom? (Score:2)
Yes of course, it's the people who signed up for first-generation ID cards whom we should feel sorry for here. Poor dears.
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Not only that, we knew that those were going to become obseleted as soon as the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats come into power. It was only the Labour party that wanted ID cards and it's (one of many) reasons i don't want them to win the next election.
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Yep, my heart bleeds.
Spoiler alert:card popularity will be non-existing (Score:2, Informative)
The British super ID card will have exactly the same fate as the finnish S
7000 issued so far (Score:2)
"no one could buy or sell without the mark" (Score:4, Insightful)
The above quote, although written many eons ago, seems remarkably accurate for the not-so-distant future...
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The above quote, although written many eons ago, seems remarkably accurate for the not-so-distant future...
Except for the part where it's a card, and not a mark on the skin, of course.
wrong, (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200601/df20060116.jpg [ibiblio.org]
Why not use our super-duper smart phones? (Score:2)
Almost everyone has a computer in their pockets - it's called a mobile phone. With a simple SMS message, one could easily buy things either online or in a shop. Here is the idea:
1. you go into the shop and decide to buy something.
2. you write an SMS like this: "PP 6937123456 19.99" and send it to a special phone number.
3. the SMS is received by the phone company and forwarded to your bank.
4. the bank receives the SMS, and transfers 19.99 pounds from your account to the account that corresponds to the phone
The end times are near (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast#Mark_of_commerce [wikipedia.org]
Cause when something goes wrong ! (Score:2)
I kind of like the idea of VISA/MasterCard/Paypal/Bank of x
They are public companies, they have a reputation to protect, people can get fired if it all hits the fan. If Visa had constantly poor security, all their customers would leave for Master Card.
If the Govt controls the payments system, and the payments systems is fragile, or easily corruptible, you can't just dump them and go to the competition.
At least in my country, govt employees pretty much need to shoot someone (during office hours, and in the o
Super too soon (Score:2)
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I have a passive RFID chip in my arm from a university project. It sets the alarms off in H&M when I walk in and out of the store. :D
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Millions? I think not.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/09/id_card_numbers/ [theregister.co.uk]
The area of North West England listed there includes two major cities with a combined population of 3.5 million alone. And how many cards have they issued in this area up until the 3rd of March this year?
Four thousand three hundred and seven. Yes we Brits are banging down the doors to get our ID cards.
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It probably should have some kind of Chip. Now this would be perfect day!
Re:Or not (Score:5, Insightful)
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Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?
It probably should have some kind of Chip. Now this would be perfect day!
Nice until the government decides to revoke your access to all of the above on a whim.
Re:Or not (Score:5, Insightful)
Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?
Wouldn't it be easy if the government and corporations could track and timestamp every action of your life with no court supervision?
Re:Or not (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with any such card is that as it does more and more things, more and more people can access data used by it. The fact that it can do more things makes it a juicy target for criminals, while the larger the number of people who have access to its data the more there are to be criminals or to be suborned by criminals. This means that there is in inverse square law of security against power of such a card. Nobody is going to attack my library card: all they could do is take out books in my name, and the only people who have access to the database are a handful of librarians. But single index to my entire life gives access to my bank, my medical records, my employment records, my tax records... and is vulnerable to attack by all those with legitimate access to any of those people.
Beware of revenge effects. Every technology has them - this ID card seems to me to have bigger ones than most.
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Two problems. Firstly, define, and prove, "difficult-to-spoof" for all time. People have already shown the ability to spoof fingerprints. And all you have to do is to clone the identity of one card onto the biometrics of another, and you have a card that describes the criminal but accesses the victims data.
Secondly, much access to the data is not with the card but without. If people have access to one part of the data it is all to easy to access other parts. So the clerk who can legitimately check, say, tha
Re:Or not (Score:5, Insightful)
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We already have standard forms of ID (in the UK, the passport). That's not an argument for making the passport/ID card much more expensive, and tying it to a national database, or introducing laws criminalising people who fail to notify about change of details, or lost/damaged cards, and so on.
It's also not an argument for making the ID compulsory.
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Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?
If you are willing to give up essential liberties for mere convenience, you don't deserve those liberties. Go ahead and apply for the card. Just don't complain when your life gets turned upside down when something [telegraph.co.uk] goes [bbc.co.uk] wrong [darkreading.com].
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> I expected more from you, Slashdot!
You are condemned to eternal disappointment. No matter how thickly you lay on the sarcasm there will be at least one Slashdotter who will miss it (and let's not discuss irony at all).
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How is pointing out that not only is the iPhone can not only combine all of these, but that it is also capable of doing so in a way which is actually secure (unlike these Identi-ease cards which are being proposed), "troll"?
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This corrupt government will force ID cards on people by stealth. There are plans to add a section to the passport application form. If you do not want an ID card, you will not get a passport. That's an easy way to force people to have cards they don't want. The current government ar
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You do know the UK ID card and it's backend would be illigal in Germany.
THe UK government has a very poor record in securing data. These cards have already been hacked. They are unsecure. Oh and the plans are for fingerprinting to be tendered out to private companies. Do you want to go to Tesco to hand over your fingerprints?
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Where's the +1 Wrong mod option when you need it? You're so terribly wrong on this one, that I just want to mod up so that others can see you.
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The libertoons whinging about ID cards have no idea what they're talking about.
This lot fail to see that most non-Anglo countries have mandatory cards, and it doesn't bother anybody. The idea that an ID card and a record in a database somewhere means getting analprobed constantly by police officers in ski masks is riscible.
It's traditional in the UK for people not to have to carry identification. It used to be a source of pride that people could go about their business without such interference from the state.
Big countries just as advanced, free and democratic as the English-speaking world (perhaps more so), like France and Spain have got them. Why not make life easier for government agencies trying to enforce the law, prevent fraud, and prevent illegal immigration?
France and Spain don't seem to be more successful than the UK in this regard. ID cards will be very expensive so some benefit must be shown before introducing them can be considered. "Because other countries have them" doesn't seem to be a very strong argument to me.
The risks also seem greater in the UK. The government h
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The libertoons whinging about ID cards have no idea what they're talking about.
This lot fail to see that most non-Anglo countries have mandatory cards, and it doesn't bother anybody. The idea that an ID card and a record in a database somewhere means getting analprobed constantly by police officers in ski masks is riscible.
Big countries just as advanced, free and democratic as the English-speaking world (perhaps more so), like France and Spain have got them. Why not make life easier for government agencies trying to enforce the law, prevent fraud, and prevent illegal immigration?
It's not the card per se that's the problem, it's the giant database (the NIR [wikipedia.org]) that's going with it that people object too. None of those other countries you mention have anything like the National Identity Register.
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Hillier? Hillier? So officials under Hillier will be asking for our papers?
Hail Meg...!
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The Conservative party have pledged to scrap them too which IMO is the sensible and good thing. Generally I agree w
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Wow, linked from TFA http://www.silicon.com/management/public-sector/2005/10/31/id-card-costs-could-hit-30bn-39153819/ [silicon.com] 30bn sterling ($45bn!) is a lot of money. What could be so extremely expensive? They mention integration [with other systems] costs, but it seems like they could build the whole system from ground up with that kind of cash, make it current and secure. Even Apple could build a huge datacenter for $1bn...
Which is exactly why the next government will scrap it.