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Government Security United States Your Rights Online

Why Counter-Terrorism Is In Shambles 370

Early last week several questions were submitted to former CIA analyst Ray McGovern about the sad state of counter-terrorism in the United States, and he has answered frankly and in-depth. In addition, McGovern solicited former FBI attorney/special agent Coleen Rowley to review his answers and provide her own comments. Ray's biggest tip to the intelligence community was to "HOLD ACCOUNTABLE THOSE RESPONSIBLE. More 'reform' is the last thing we need. Sorry, but we DO have to look back. The most effective step would be to release the CIA Inspector General report on intelligence community performance prior to 9/11. That investigation was run by, and its report was prepared by an honest man, it turns out. It was immediately suppressed by then-Acting DCI John McLaughlin — another Tenet clone — and McLaughin's successors as director, Porter Goss, Michael Hayden, and now Leon Panetta."
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Why Counter-Terrorism Is In Shambles

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  • Truther Blog (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 15, 2010 @08:12PM (#30786028)

    Horay! A link to a troother blog, right on the front page!

    I look forward to the day when editors are eliminated entirely from Slashdot, and "rights online" is just an RSS feed from WND, "idle" links to the front page of Prison Planet, and "science" selects a random page from Time Cube.

  • Re:wait... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 15, 2010 @08:39PM (#30786212)

    i dont think it affects me


    i dont think it has an effect on me

  • After? (Score:2, Informative)

    by maxume ( 22995 ) on Friday January 15, 2010 @09:08PM (#30786492)
  • Re:So essentially... (Score:3, Informative)

    by antirelic ( 1030688 ) on Friday January 15, 2010 @11:15PM (#30787332) Journal

    Did you ever hear of the Lend Lease Act? Go google it.

  • by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Saturday January 16, 2010 @01:17AM (#30787992) Homepage

    Just fyi, I'm only replying to this part because it's the only part of your brilliant post I can take any issue with.

    The problem is that the NSA is forbidden by law from spying on American Citizens, UNLESS they are monitoring overseas communications. This exception has always been allowed, no warrant necessary. There is no law that states that I have the constitutional right to conspire with enemies overseas.

    That's simply not true. FISA is the law that says that the NSA or any other government entity cannot spy on a conversation if either side is a "US Person", meaning a person legally in States or a U.S. citizen anywhere in the world. So, yes, there is a law that says that if you are (allegedly) conspiring with enemies overseas, they need a warrant to monitor those communications.

  • Re:So essentially... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Mr2001 ( 90979 ) on Saturday January 16, 2010 @01:26AM (#30788030) Homepage Journal

    Doesn't it seem just a little bit unfair to you to prosecute people whom were relying on legal opinions issued by our own Justice Department advising them that what they were about to do was in fact legal?

    If your boss asks you to do something that seems illegal, and his lawyer says it's probably OK even though he's never tested that theory in court, do you not still bear the responsibility when it turns out your actions really were illegal after all?

    The Justice Department is part of the executive branch; they don't make or interpret laws. Their opinions carry no more weight than any other lawyers' opinions.

  • Oh, and we executed Japanese commanders for authorizing the waterboarding of POWs during WWII. Can you explain why Bush and Cheney both shouldn't be in front of a firing squad?

    Actually, for the most part, unlike the NAZIs, we really let the Japanese off the hook for World War II. We rooted out the entire German ruling class and pretty much destroyed Prussia. In Japan, we kept the ruling class. We kept Hirohito, we kept a lot of the players behind the scenes. The only guy that really got it was Tojo, who took the blame for the war, really, but really, the Emperor ordered it. And, we hanged Yamashita, I believe, and that was because of the Bataan death march, and, maybe, just maybe, because we took his gold.

  • Re:So essentially... (Score:4, Informative)

    by tjstork ( 137384 ) <> on Saturday January 16, 2010 @02:09AM (#30788222) Homepage Journal

    What exactly is your point? It's the "righties" who trot out the tired old "they hate us for their freedoms." Stating that's bin Laden's reasoning doesn't imply agreement with his beliefs.

    Yeah, but it is true. I mean Osama Bin Laden, has said? Have you actually read what the terrorists have said? Maybe its because of our paranoid right wing ways, but, when Osama Bin Laden says something, when anyone says something about us, around the world, that's bad, we tend to read it. We right wingers will go out to the terrorist sites and read what they say about us. We have our own institutions that track this stuff, and the truth is, well, they actually really do hate us.

    They hate the west because of our decadence, because of our uppity women, because of our wealth, our way of life. We're the romans, these guys are the barbarian radicals. They hate because our way of life is not only an assault on their traditions, it is an assault that appears more effective of a way of life than theirs is. To their mind, all of our advance therefor must be the work of satan, because our wealth is merely an evil temptation to abandon their traditional beliefs. We can't be reasoned with, except as a tactic. We are evil, the work of satan, with terrible morals, and we can only be destroyed, don't you get it?

    Like, think, abortion clinic bomber logic, but, one that sees not only abortions as evil, but making french fries, and then you kinda have your head around where the islamic mind is at these days.

  • Re:So essentially... (Score:4, Informative)

    by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Saturday January 16, 2010 @02:59AM (#30788424)

    Because terrorists that hide behind civilians and refuse to obey the laws of war aren't entitled to the same treatment as soldiers who fight under a flag and officers?

    Wrong. Nazi officers were tried and executed for war crimes of killing non-uniformed French and Soviet partisans and civilians for reprisal killings.

    Of course it was more or less Germans just rounding up anyone who they thought my be a non-uniformed resistance fighter and shot them on the spot, but it was a still a sticking point.

  • by fyngyrz ( 762201 ) on Saturday January 16, 2010 @05:50AM (#30788874) Homepage Journal

    Yes? Back it up. Otherwise, bullshit.

  • by Noren ( 605012 ) on Saturday January 16, 2010 @11:01AM (#30790308)
    Your first choice of example is odd, considering that appealing specifically to Catholics and crusading against the "godless movement" were key tactics used used by the Nazis [] to consolidate power in the early 1930s. They most certainly did use religion (and more specifically anti-atheist sentiment) to consolidate power over their rival radical group, the communists.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 16, 2010 @11:37AM (#30790566)


    First, the US is not an empire. Empires take from their subject states, the United States gives out money, technology and protection.

    I call BS.

    Empires give all the above and always expect one thing in return. Silent Unquestioned Obedience. Its called hegemony. If you had read any history by yourself and tried to understand, you would easily come to the same conclusion. It remains true for all empires, at all places and all times. Instead you are merely regurgitating what you heard from someone, somewhere, maybe from some 'expert' on one of those 'unbiased' news channels...or some idiots editorial who never read or understood history but wrote with a lot of passion.

    You see, the problem when you start a post this way, it tells us exactly what rubbish the rest of the post is going to be and there is no point reading further.

    Ofcourse I am being condescending, and I am ashamed (thus AC) and apologize, but I hope you are still not too old to develop critical thinking and decide for yourself.

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- Wernher von Braun