The Chinese Route To a Web Free of Porn 420
An anonymous reader writes "Despite repeated 'for the children' campaigns, the Western Web as a whole has provided little or no isolation of pornography. This is why the Chinese are now attempting to march to a place where no country has been before: a Web without porn. Recent regulations have included closing down 'vulgar' mobile sites, disconnecting 'obscene' servers, and restricting domain registrations. Yet the breaking news for Monday is that China is planning to enforce a whitelist on foreign domains: in particular, any e-commerce will have to register locally and obey Chinese law before they get whitelisted. Domains will otherwise be 'irresolvable' to Chinese Internet users. Meanwhile, the government is promoting this campaign heavily, calling it a 'fresh start.' It seems the Chinese may have to do without the Internet, before they can rid it of porn."
Anyone else read that as (Score:4, Funny)
The Chinese Route to Web of Free Porn?
Re:Anyone else read that as (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Anyone else read that as (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Anyone else read that as (Score:4, Funny)
Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yet the breaking news for Monday is that the China is planning to enforce a whitelist on foreign domains: in particular, any e-commerce will have to register locally and obey Chinese law before they get whitelisted.
Where does it say that? Citation needed!
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I'm searching, and I can't find it on Google.
I would very much like to see this from a credible source.
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chinese news [chinatimes.com]
google.ca translate [google.ca]
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a reference:
http://www.admin5.com/article/20091221/199510.shtml [admin5.com]
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.admin5.com%2Farticle%2F20091221%2F199510.shtml&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 [google.com]
I can't find an English language source.
So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:5, Interesting)
So that takes care of wikipedia.org or are they censoring en.wikipedia.org differently than zh.wikipedia.org? Because while an English [wikipedia.org] versus Chinese [wikipedia.org] article may be more "culturally sensitive," there's still some unavoidable images [wikipedia.org] no matter how different they are from the original [wikipedia.org]. If they've never had to deal with the artwork versus pornography issue, they're soon going to discover that banning National Geographic for images of unclothed peoples is just not educationally sound.
Looks like we've got a new amusingly painful chapter ahead of us for Chinese internet users.
As a side note, I don't know if we ended up covering this story but citizens apparently can't register domains anymore either [slashdot.org].
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China did block Wikipedia before. I can see them doing it again, and maybe this time permanently. Unless Wikipedia makes a China-friendly version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_by_the_People's_Republic_of_China [wikipedia.org]
http://shanghaiist.com/archives/2005/10/20/you_bastards_wi.php [shanghaiist.com]
http://www.itworld.com/040614wikipedia [itworld.com]
http://angrychineseblogger.blog-city.com/china_blocks_wikipedia_again.htm [blog-city.com]
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Serious question here, since trying to Google it brings up too many polluted results(read: Asian porn) -- Is it legal or even possible to buy porn in China? Like, going to a store and buying magazines or videos? I'm trying to determine just how much of a red herring censorship due to "porn
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You have been able to buy magazines of artsy nude photos legitimately for about three years now. Anything more explicit than that is illegal. That doesn't mean you can't get it, though - pr0n DVDs are very easy to find.
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I have a website with tasteful art-nude images on it, among many other types of photography and artwork, and I have had the entire site blocked by filtering companies quite frequently. A friend who works at a government office found my website blocked, most recently. I don't hold high chances that it will be accessible in China any time soon.
Invariably there is no distinction drawn between artistic nudity and images that would generally be classed as obscene or pornographic. This is a big problem her
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paying people per site to find 'pornographic' sites
I think I've just found my dream job description.
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:4, Interesting)
This leads me to believe that there is a proxy that uses dynamic filtering that watches web page contents. "Maitreya" is a really tame page, and it's just about a Buddhist figure, and I never have any other problems with normal religious pages. However, there have been several movements and cults throughout history where the member will claim to be Maitreya (the future Buddha). There is a section on the Maitreya page that covers this ugly / strange side, so I'm guessing that any talk about cults may have the clamp on it. The way pages are filtered is pretty strange here. For example, half of the Google Images results will typically be missing. This may be because the government tries to only block out image results, but Google constantly adds new servers to host them.
You can forget about Blogger, YouTube, Facebook, etc. They are all blocked here, but nobody cares in China because they use different websites. It's more of a pain in the ass than anything -- it's not really going to comprehensively censor anything, but it certainly makes using the Web a more frustrating and needlessly-limiting experience for any foreigners.
The big thing now being pushed by the government in China is morality, and I actually agree with that emphasis. That is, taking the high road of governance and focusing on culture rather than overt methods of control and regulation. This idea is totally in harmony with China's ancient humanistic culture and the original teachings of Confucianism and Daoism. However, contrived morality by means of censorship is not really encouraging people to be kinder, more caring, or otherwise more ethical. It is not going to help people to develop notions of justice or equality, or to nurture individual consciousness of one's own actions.
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The father of one of my sons friends asked me about filtered internet feeds and filtering software because he is separated from his wife and he needs to use it to bargain for custody. I wasn't really able to help but I made some suggestions and I assume he found a suitable system.
The people who want these systems can go and get them. There isn't really a need for them to be forced on to people.
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:5, Insightful)
The internet certainly makes porn rather easier to get than it has been in the recent past; but I'm not sure that it is something to get all that worked up over. Heck, the ability to afford enough rooms that the kids don't have to watch their parents, and the whole family doesn't have to watch the livestock, is a fairly recent innovation, on the historical scale.
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He fears his own ignorance. Hate to break it to you NotwithAbrain, but we were born naked and to procreate. Get over yourself already. A kid seeing sex isn't going to make them the anti-christ you ignorant people seem to think. Grow some balls and teach your kids what sex is and for. People like you sicken me.
He fears his own ignorance. Hate to break it to you NotwithAbrain, but we were born naked and to procreate. Get over yourself already. A kid seeing sex isn't going to make them the anti-christ you ignorant people seem to think. Grow some balls and teach your kids what sex is and for. People like you sicken me.
There's a difference between sex and porno. There has been some debate about the role of women in porno-movies. Some (at least 1) countries have political parties promoting/condoning sex with children http://www.pnvd.nl/EN_index.html [www.pnvd.nl] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity [wikipedia.org] . Instead of blindly/easily/lazily/cowardly tolerating whatever comes the most effortlessly to your mind, try grow some testicles and add something insightful to the discussion, instead of blurting
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There's a difference between sex and porno. There has been some debate about the role of women in porno-movies.
The main problem with kids being fed (current) porn before they can act it out is that they believe that what is pictured in porn films is how people are supposed to behave together instead of being a fantasy enhancing device. Most of them grow out of it but it makes their first relationships difficult. And since they will only talk about it with other similarly tainted youths, it's a (small) problem.
Just seeing naked people has no particular ill effects.
Some (at least 1) countries have political parties promoting/condoning sex with children http://www.pnvd.nl/EN_index.html [www.pnvd.nl] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity [wikipedia.org] . Instead of blindly/easily/lazily/cowardly tolerating whatever comes the most effortlessly to your mind, try grow some testicles and add something insightful to the discussion, instead of blurting colourless platitudes.
This is marginal and irrelevant.
Also kids shouldn't b
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Best way to fix that problem is to put the computers in the living room or other place where the family gathers. this make its difficult to sneak stuff. My friend grew up like that, computer in living room. This was back in the day of gif porn from bbs's and 1.44 floppy's. I had a few floppies full and could view them when no one was around the computer/office room. He couldn't. But that wont stop them from seeing unwanted material at friends homes. You just have to accept that sooner or later your child is
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Teaching children that things which come naturally to them are "taboo" only leads to confusion or worse. Though I understand where you're coming from, I'm one of those poor saps who felt the need during adolescence to acquire porn for the sake of discovery because I was led to believe that sex was something super-secret that only special people knew about.
It's as if parents are afraid of their offspring reaching earlier physical and emotional maturity. Why? It's a natural consequence of improved nutrition and availability of information.
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I love these types of pro-censorship arguments. All emotion and no facts. They always boil down to "it makes me feel funny".
Well, I'm sorry that you've categorically decided that a child having basic knowledge of human anatomy is "not good", but that's not a solid enough reason to restrict my freedoms.
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Why don't you watch rape, torture and (real) murder scenes everyday for a year and then let me know if it did not permanently affect (scar) you in any way
Why don't you quit sensationalizing your arguments in an attempt to cover your lack of evidence or reason?
Re:So That Takes Care of Wikipedia Then? (Score:5, Insightful)
14th century mentalities were on the right track.
You realize that the 14th century was the part were Europe was barely emerging from the dark ages? Not to mention that in the 14th century, girls were married off and had children way before the age of 18. How do you think that worked? Or do you think that the best way to introduce a girl to sex ed is on her honeymoon night when she's 15?
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But what's wrong with vagina?? There was a famous Chinese writer from Hong Kong [wikipedia.org] who once wrote "It's ok for the kids to see vagina. For the kids that aren't aroused by vagina, it'll be boring to look at and they will lose interest in a sec. For the kids that are aroused, they will find their own vagina before you can do anything about it."
What's stopping "these kids" from googling vagina is their own disinterest. Do you google "how to kill someone with bare hands" and "how to make a bomb from household
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Type "vagina" into your google search bar. Click on the first link. BAM!
So it came up with a Wikipedia entry and a pic. I note that it was hairless but retouched. It's not pornographic however and could not be classed as pornographic, rather descriptive, medical (physiological) and instructive.
I think your premise is flawed a bit. Cocooned is a better term. Most kids today with internet access make moral and ethical decisions when they see pornogaphy. Some shie away, some find perverted pleasure, others accept and wait for the real thing.
If people can't deal with that, then the
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Heh (Score:5, Funny)
Might as well remove all the salt in the ocean while they're at it.
Fresh start (Score:5, Funny)
Fresh start today. Hundreds of fresh young....
never mind
Don't give conroy any ideas!!! (Score:3, Funny)
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Yeah. I'm pretty sure that Slashdot will be filtered out sometime in 2010. Maybe the Aussies deserve a special mention - perhaps a day of remembrance, you know - the good ol'e days BC (Before Conroy) ':)'
Correlation /= Causation (Score:5, Funny)
Nonsense, it's simple industrial protectionism. (Score:2)
Conspiracy, or just idiocy? (Score:5, Insightful)
So China institutes a one-child-per-family policy. Due to social and traditional reasons, male children are far preferred. As a result, the population is already skewed male, and continuing to trend that way.
Now China's blocking the porn? How do they plan on dealing with the ah, excess males? Send them off to war?
Re:Conspiracy, or just idiocy? (Score:5, Informative)
The illegal prostitutes do a roaring trade. It's a huge industry.
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I read a while back that the Chinese Army owns many prostitution parlors. I would imagine that many of the officials are also involved.
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First off, there are no prostitution parlours in China, there are a multitude of Massage parlours and Karaoke bars instead.
Secondly, the Chinese Army, the PLA as in the organisation would own nothing of the sort however the individual officers, mostly the higher ranking colonels and generals would own them personally. The Army as an organisation would have no stake in it what so ever. Now in most of Asia being an officer in the ar
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Most of the single men are poor, and can not afford to go to a hooker.
This is partly because the male/female ratio is worst in the poor countryside (boys are extra important on farms, as they can help with the heavy work, plus the more traditional values and desire to keep the family line). Secondly, women have a preference for better-off men. Women like to "marry up", while men don't mind to "marry down". In Western society we see the same effect but then at the "high end": successful career-women who can
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Male children are not preferred. They WERE. The skew has changed the preference so that now girls are preferred.
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Coming from a nation full of chinese immigrants, I think the main problem of the one-child policy is that it does not end up in a lot of abortions, hidden children or what not, the main problem is that the family structure is totally broken down. The children are now the bosses, the little kings, leading to an entire generation of sociopaths and socially-inept people. Think of this - what if everyone in your country did not have a brother or sister? Where do you learn your family values?
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Not just a brother or a sister - no aunts, uncles, or cousins either.
Your ONLY relations (at least legally) are parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. Or, from the other a single child, a single grandchild, etc.
For a typical child with four living grandparents, on their birthday their entire family is in attendance, and that is the only birthday any of them will attend that year so they spend their entire annual birthday budget on them. If you ever perceived single children in the US as being som
After a thorough review (Score:4, Funny)
Afer a thorough review, being very careful to make sure that there is absolutely no sexual connotation whatsoever, we have determined that all but the following are prohibited:
Binary 1. No. Dammit. OK. Zero. Dammit!!! Nevermind.
Your sig (Score:2, Offtopic)
You do realize that your sig uses "begs the question" wrongly, don't you ?
Rather hypocritical for a sig that's making a statement about grammar and vocabulary I thought...
Re:Your sig (Score:4, Informative)
And you didn't even notice that it begins "For all intensive purposes..."
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Omgomgomg post again please. I must know if it's possible to fail harder than you already have.
Yea Right, it's all about "Porn." (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yea Right, it's all about "Porn." (Score:4, Insightful)
As other people have pointed out, China is already openly and unashamedly blocking and censoring political and cultural information it doesn't like; this is actually primarily about porn, which the government sees as corrupting and immoral.
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Join the club, China (Score:3, Funny)
Glad I live in Australia, where freedom of speech rules and the population wouldn't put up with this bullshit. Oh wait ...
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Australia's censorship is awful but at least it's proposed to be a blacklist not a whitelist.
Greetings, you have selected a website that has not yet been vetted. To continue you will need to
1) declare that to the best of your knowledge the site does not contravene Moral Standards.
2) provide you Australia-Card number and password.
Substantial penalties apply to false declarations.
All authoritarian regimes do this (Score:2)
Repress the fuckin' - Repress the people.
I don't get it (Score:2)
Why are they so obsessed with blocking porn? Are they really that prudish? And I though the US were the ultimate prudes (and hypocrites) when it came to sex.
It doesn't hurt anyone or break down society as near as I can tell. Plus, you can't stop the natural human natural instincts which hormones produce, short of requiring all men to take drugs to suppress the desire (Half-Life 2's suppression field anyone?)
The ONLY reason I can see for their obsessiveness with blocking porn is that it can be used as the ba
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USA the ultimate prudes?!?! Whaaaaaaaat? Where the F did that one come from? The USA has one of the most liberal sexual attitudes this side of Amsterdam. Legal nude beaches, legal pornography on satellite TV, 100% unrestricted internet including all the dark parts (and internet porn can get really really dark), as well as unrestricted travel and emigration for those who find America a cesspool of good morals. Hell, all you have to do is go south of the border, you'll find no shortage of men who won't m
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Who the fuck at the Chinese to criticize Americans for how THEY do things?
Seriously, everyone judges everyone. It's part of being human. Now FUCK OFF and leave me to judge.
Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Funny)
internet porn can get really really dark
[citation needed]
I dunno... (Score:2)
The Internet as "default-deny" (Score:3, Informative)
China (and the rest of the world to a lesser extent) is slowly moving away from the "default accept" ideology of the free, open internet and towards a network where only approved devices can connect. Slashbots will rave and foam at the mouth about that "censorship is interpreted as damage" meme but it's sadly out of date. The Chinese can and will control what filth reaches their people. Sure, VPNs will be there...for a while at least...but the average Zhou won't bother with it.
It's hard for a lot of bicoastal Americans to understand - and even more difficult for transnational progressivist Europeans - but the Chinese people really do love their country. And their country has one government, which is the best government China has ever had. Ever since Deng Xiaoping ditched university Marxism and took the Communist Party on the capitalist road ("socialism is not poverty / to get rich is glorious") life has only gotten better in China. For all the bad press the Chinese government gets, they really are trying to do right, by their own standards. The problem arises when blinkered Westerners insist on judging China by "universal" standards. In fact, these "universal standards" have their roots in the Enlightenment...which China didn't have.
Aaah, kinda lost my point there. Anyhow, I'm no panda hugger but you simply have to put yourself in their shoes. A mere seventeen years ago socialism couldn't even provide clean drinking water and now China is the world's largest market for Rolls-Royce automobiles. This doesn't mean that the Communist Party of China will be relinquishing power anytime soon, though. They still maintain control over the economy via the allocation and issuance of business licenses and the denial of debilitating foreign influences, such as pornography.
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I think that while the Chinese Government wants to have the Internet, they want it to be a simple "connect A to B" affair. Working that way it is easy to regulate.
They may have many problems with porn but one problem I can see is the anonymity it tends to involve. The large scale exchange of image files can lead to the creation of meta communication channels using stenography. The net result is that the social networks within the internet become harder to track and analyse.
I can understand why that would pr
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Foreign picture? You lose at the internet.
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SSH tunneling (Score:2)
I'll bet SSH tunneling will be illegal, and will be considered evidence on its face that you are Up To Something. I wonder what the penalty will be.
On the other hand, the Chinese government does like money, and lack of SSL would make it rather hard to move money around via the Internet.
Either way, this is going to be about as successful as Prohibition was in the USA.
steveha
Grow Some Cojones (Score:2)
Let them grow up ignorant, with half an internet. It's their choice.
Censor this! (Score:2)
http://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n/pinups.html [asciipr0n.com]
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If it is not registered with the Chinese government, it is already censored by default.
The difference between China and the US (Score:2, Insightful)
is that with China, there's no pandering talk about "freedom" and "civil liberties." Chinese citizens know exactly what's up, whereas your average American still thinks they have freedom.
You think this is a provocative claim? It's not. The way the state deals with internet regulation is a perfect illustration. In China, you are forcibly blocked, end of story. Simple, efficient. In the US, law enforcement doesn't stop you outright, but instead they track you only to prosecute your ass later. Massive a
Re:The difference between China and the US (Score:4, Interesting)
Really, you'd rather live in China than the US?
What drugs are you taking that make you think your country is vastly different than the US? It may be different, it may have some situations that are better, but it'll have some that are worse.
'Freedom' in most of the 'free world' is roughly the same, just different benefits and restrictions, but overall the same.
The problem I have with your post is you act like the US is horrible and that some other country is far better in this respect. Go ahead, pick a country, point out all the ways its 'better' and I'll turn around and point out an equal number of ways its worse.
I'll start to believe America is horrible when people start leaving, which last I checked, was not one of America's 'problems'.
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It makes me sick of people saying that Western Countries are worse than China just because they are not perfect.
First of all, nobody is saying that, by registering, you won't be prosecuted by the Government. If you register, post things in favor of Falung Long, the Dalai Lama, the Tiananmen students, be sure you'll be prosecuted. No need for you to post false statement, putting verified truths that harm no one will put you in trouble. Registering does not bring safety to you, it brings security to the Gover
Re:The difference between China and the US (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The difference between China and the US (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps you're right. I don't really know because I've lived in the US most of my life and I don't know what it's really like to live in China. But based on what I've been told by those who have lived there both by citizens and expatriates, the Western media has painted a rather distorted picture of daily life in China.
But the reason why I am specifically responding to your post is that you are basically saying that intentions count, and I disagree with this, especially as it pertains to the individual. I don't care that the US likes to hold up a piece of paper and talk about lofty ideals. I care about what actually happens, and the eight years under Bush's reign has proven just how little intentions are really worth. Everything from the response to Katrina, the creation of TSA, warrantless wiretapping, no-bid contracts, the healthcare debacle...it is all utterly rotten to the core. Time and time again, the law is upheld for the rich. If you are of modest means, there is no justice for you because you can't afford it.
The goal of the US system is not to uphold freedom. It has increasingly become a game played by the rich and powerful to see who can consolidate more power and influence under the pretense of freedom. Is that worse or better than the specter of a communist state? I honestly don't know. But what I do know is that I do not want either.
Calling It Now (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't really sound that bad to me (Score:2)
So you're going to make other parts of the Internet who want to do business with you follow your laws for businesses? I'm not really sure why thats supposed to be a bad thing.
Honestly, I'd be fine with that for the US really. 99.9% of the population would be fine with it, not that many people buy outside the country anyway, and you'd drastically cut down on the usefulness of spam links to exploiting websites since they are either easy to cut off if they are repeat offenders or simply go after if they are
This has nothing to do wiht porn! (Score:2, Insightful)
The Chinese government is just got tired to block every page against it on Internet. So it decided to simply close it!
One province had lost Internet Connection for more than 8 months and this is just the beginning.
im gonna have to quate the good dr cox (Score:4, Funny)
The Command economy will eventually (Score:3, Funny)
Then Ikea will invade.
This is NOT NEWS!!! The TOPIC IS A TROLL. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, the rule that foreign e-commerce web sites have to register with the Chinese authorities and hosting porn is illegal has been around for many years. It was part of the law when I lived there over 5 years ago, and the "porn" excuse was well known cover for cracking down on politically sensitive issues. Nothing that I can see is new or interesting in this report that was not just as true 5 years ago.
Moderators are letting a lot of crap slip through these days.
Re:Hum? (Score:5, Funny)
I only use the internet to spread dissonant lies about my government and to look at porn.
Say wha? (Score:2, Funny)
I only use the internet to spread dissonant lies about my government and to look at porn. ...
Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government." -- Thomas Jefferson
I swear, the first time I looked at your post, the attribution to Jefferson in your sig got mis-assigned to the whole post, leading to a very "wtf" moment...
dissonant lies (Score:2)
dissonant lies about my government.
Oh, come on, your lies just need to get a little rhythm....
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Now listen to me Bill O'Reilly,
I told you you're not allowed back on the internet until after you've done you chores.
Re:Translation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Pornography may be naked people having sex, or it may be sites critical of the government.
Oh no, this is actually about pornography. The government of China already openly and unabashedly censors political content it doesn't approve of.
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Oh no, this is actually about pornography. The government of China already openly and unabashedly censors political content it doesn't approve of.
Yeah, with a lead-based filtering system.
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No, it's obviously not. It's about control. By saying it's "for the children" they can erect far broader controls, and enforce whitelists, rather than attempting to pursue criminally or politically active people. The difference in the availability of political, religious, artistic, and even scientific information that might offend the party in power is profound.
One might expect Facebook, Google, and other vendors trying to expand their Chinese markets to comply immediately. But genuinely useful sites like W
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Neo-cons? You mean like Dick Chen-yi?
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It might be a coming of age thing in an authoritarian government. A bit like the gangster who has to kill someone to prove themselves to the organisation. To be in the Chinese government you have to be Against Something. And you have to Stop Something.
Its a bit like that in the multinational company I work for. New managers prove their ability by Stopping Stuff or Starting Stuff. Not always for good reasons. But the reasons are less important than the strengthening of the "us and them" configuration.
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It's not just the communists that get a hardon from making gay folk into some kind of second-class citizenry....
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Because none of that happens is the good, god-fearing, democratic west now does it.
The only difference is that western politicians ban such things for God or the Children, Eastern politicians simply offer no excuse.
Yeah, because the US is the bastion of freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because the US is the bastion of freedom for homo-sexuals. Tell me again in wich nation the people voted to make homosexuals 2nd class citizens?
Sometimes you got to think a little bit clearer before you comment. And China is pretty open about homosexual rights because they are not christians and as such do not have the WESTERN view that it is a sin.
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I don't know any law in the US that states that it is illegal to be homosexual.
Well, technically it isn't illegal to be a pedophile either, but your life options would be severely restricted in comparison to a heterosexual citizen.
I do believe there are many religions who frown upon homosexuality.
Depends on the religion, culture and historical period. Anal sex, whether between a man and woman, or man and man, is considered unclean in Buddhism, but actual homosexual love isn't. Strict Islam is pretty much against homosexuality, but historically Islam was quite liberal and homosexuals were open and accepted in the past. There is a Muslim gay bar in Ams
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Mods, this is supposed to be funny and/or flaimbait.
Wow. Insightful? Really?
Well played, Anenome, well played.
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Nah. That's what Silicon Valley is like. All that frustrated sexual energy goes into technical progress.