China Blocks YouTube, Again 127
cryfreedomlove brings news that YouTube has once again been blocked in China. The Google-owned video site was censored in China last year because of videos about the protests in Tibet, and that may be the impetus behind this latest restriction. According to a New York Times report,
"'The instant speculation is that YouTube is being blocked because the Tibetan government in exile released a particular video,' said Xiao Qiang, adjunct professor of journalism at the University of California, Berkeley... Mr. Xiao said that the blocking of YouTube fit with what appeared to be an effort by China to step up its censorship of the Internet in recent months. Mr. Xiao said he was not surprised that YouTube was a target. It also hosts videos about the Tiananmen Square protests and many other subjects that Chinese authorities find objectionable."
first (Score:2, Funny)
Re:first (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess the YouTube posters got all cocky when "The River Crab Wears Two Watches" and "Grass Mud Horse" didn't get it blocked...
This is an unfortunate development. For a bit there, it looked like China might be going more open, but I guess the infantilization of their people is more important. :-/
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I'm surprised this story is about China and not the UK. I guess it's only a matter of time - "UK Blocks Wikipedia" has already happened.
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Grass Mud Horse is an interesting phenomenon
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/12/asia/12beast.php [iht.com]
It was against this background that the grass-mud horse and several mythical companions appeared in early January on the Chinese Internet portal Baidu. The creatures' names, as written in Chinese, were innocent enough. But much as "bear" and "bare" have different meanings in English, their spoken names were double entendres with inarguably dirty second meanings.
So while "grass-mud horse" sounds like a nasty curse in Chinese, its written Chinese characters are completely different, and its meaning â"taken literally â" is benign. Thus the beast not only has dodged censors' computers, but has also eluded the government's own ban on so-called offensive behavior.
As depicted online, the grass-mud horse seems innocent enough at the start.
An alpaca-like animal - in fact, the videos show alpacas - it lives in a desert whose name resembles yet another foul word. The horses are "courageous, tenacious and overcome the difficult environment," a YouTube song about them says.
But they face a problem: invading "river crabs" that are devouring their grassland. In spoken Chinese, "river crab" sounds very much like "harmony," which in China's cyberspace has become a synonym for censorship. Censored bloggers often say their posts have been "harmonized" â" a term directly derived from President Hu Jintao's regular exhortations for Chinese citizens to create a harmonious society.
In the end, one song says, the horses are victorious: "They defeated the river crabs in order to protect their grassland; river crabs forever disappeared from the Ma Le Ge Bi," the desert.
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Re:Typical for an American to think... (Score:4, Informative)
That would be Commodore Matthew Perry, who opened up Japan by threat of force.
I wasn't sure if you were just trying to be funny...
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Yeah, I was quite aware of that.
I was feigning arrogance and ignorance - unlike the GP who proposes that one of the world's oldest civilizations, and home of a quarter of the world's human population "be brought out of the stone age".
And suggesting, by mentioning Commodore Perry, that it should be done by force.
By a country of mere 306 million, who owe a shitload of money to the above mentioned "stone age" country.
But I guess that subtle humor is an elegant weapon, for a more civilized times.
At least on sla
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Yeah, I was quite aware of that.
I was feigning arrogance and ignorance - unlike the GP who proposes that one of the world's oldest civilizations, and home of a quarter of the world's human population "be brought out of the stone age".
They are an extremely old civilization. I just wonder if maybe they've gotten a bit senile.
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> And suggesting, by mentioning Commodore Perry, that it should be done by force.
And, most importantly, look at how well that turned out (see Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, Rape of Nanking, Pearl Harbor, etc.).
Perry didn't use force, though. He used a veiled threat of force. Rather like what China used to get Great Britain to relinquish all of Hong Kong when the lease on the New Territories ran out.
And one gunship and a few hundred marines against the entire country would not have worked out well
Another? (Score:2)
When was the last time that happened?
The Boxer Rebellion? When "civilized" colonial nations jumped in to state the claim on their part of China?
Well... if USA is to do something like that again, I suggest it once more sends a priest to lead the pillaging. They have a proven record of being VERY good at it. [wikipedia.org]
And people wonder why a 20+ year of war followed by 30 years of Mao's terror seemed like a good idea to the Chinese.
Guess they decided that if they are going to be fucked in the ass - at least they can try
Re:in soviet? china... (Score:1)
wouldn't it be in communist, not soviet?
What should Google do? (Score:5, Interesting)
But it is my hope that Youtube, blogs and similar sites have a positive effect on subverting the PRC government's policies of censorship and thought control, even when censored. Wikipedia suggests that this is true, with sexual content becoming less censored around 2004 [wikipedia.org]. It's also clear that the Chinese populace is willing and at least somewhat to subvert such censorship, as indicated by the "Ten Mythical Creatures [wikipedia.org]" meme.
So, though it galls me, perhaps Google should aim for some sort of middle of the road response to maximize the subversion of China's anti-free speech policies.
--sabre86
Re:What should Google do? (Score:5, Interesting)
My initial response is that Google should just ignore the blockage
When in Rome...
But it is my hope that Youtube, blogs and similar sites have a positive effect on subverting the PRC government's policies of censorship and thought control, even when censored.
Thought control is nonexistant. Chinese media may seem that way from the outside, but you have to understand that people are much more critical when they know it's controlled.
A seemingly irrelevant quote [wikipedia.org]: "Strangely enough, Hungarians living outside of Hungary - especially those living overseas - never really understood Hofi's message. This wasn't because of a language barrier: it was a consequence of drastically different experiences regarding certain historical events."
He became a legend not because he was critical, but because he said what everyone in the country was thinking anyway.
Re:What should Google do? (Score:5, Insightful)
He became a legend not because he was critical, but because he said what everyone in the country was thinking anyway.
Every crazy leader you've ever heard of was like that. We get more and more dissatisfied with living under the system we're in, until one day, some madman who doesn't care about political correctness stands up and says "We're all thinking the same way, lets get those motherfuckers!", and everyone follows them because they were the sanest person who was willing to lead them against their enemies.
It has to be a madman, because they're the outsiders. The insiders are paralyzed into indecisiveness by what they stand to lose, and are crippled by their tendency to use traditional methods to achieve their goals, which is a liability when you're trying to create a fresh new system.
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Every crazy leader you've ever heard of was like that. We get more and more dissatisfied with living under the system we're in, until one day, some madman who doesn't care about political correctness stands up and says "We're all thinking the same way, lets get those motherfuckers!", and everyone follows them because they were the sanest person who was willing to lead them against their enemies.
It has to be a madman, because they're the outsiders. The insiders are paralyzed into indecisiveness by what they stand to lose, and are crippled by their tendency to use traditional methods to achieve their goals, which is a liability when you're trying to create a fresh new system.
In the name of the Hungarian people, let me say: FUCK YOU. Hofi was not a leader, he was a comedian. He never tried to tell anyone what to do, except "stop being stupid". We loved him precisely because of that. And because he was not afraid to tell that to those in power as well.
There are few things you can do to piss off a Hungarian: calling Hofi a madman is one of them.
RTFWiki.
His death created an enormous vacuum in Hungarian comedy, and it is a common consensus among people who witnessed his performances that there may never be another comedian like him. Even today, he is referred to as "The Hofi", with the definite article. He was indeed a national institution.
Hofi's historical significance - beyond his obvious merits as a comedian - was that he maintained his identity and dignity in a totalitarian regime where most others would have bailed. He can never be compared to those stand-up comedians who were making fun of politicians while living under a democratic government.
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I linked it in GGGP... That's what I get for assuming slashdotters can read the first sentence of a link [wikipedia.org] before replying.
Géza Hofi (born Géza Hoffmann, July 2, 1936 in Budapest; died April 10, 2002 in Budapest) was a Hungarian actor and comedian.
Re:What should Google do? -shieldwolf (Score:1)
great post very thought provoking
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Too bad he didn't read what he was replying to.
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I always use traditional methods to get things done. It just happens that I introduce new traditions into my life and throw out old ones every few hours. A recent tradition is no less a tradition! :P
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...but you have to understand that people are much more critical when they know it's controlled.
Yeah people are in no way easily manipulated, especially highly educated people such as the Chinese that are tought from birth to question authority.
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Yeah people are in no way easily manipulated, especially highly educated people such as the Chinese that are tought from birth to question authority.
Which is why China will never be as totalitarian as the US.
</troll>
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China have censored part of the internet? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'll alert the presses!!!!!
Tell me, Mr. Anderson... what good is a phone call... if you're unable to speak?
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Like water still wet, fire still hot?
Their Last Straw... (Score:2)
I guess the Tibetan Beating Video was the straw such that the Chinese Government just said, "Aw, screw it. Ban the whole thing."
It's not like no one saw it coming, but whats really scary is not that Chinese Citizens sit by and take this... but that from what I understand, they _condone it_ and even expect it.
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It's their one great fear: disintegration/segmentation.
China seems to be the only ancient empire that managed to maintain intact to the modern time. Any other contender?
Re:Their Last Straw... (Score:4, Insightful)
Turkey (don't mention the "genocide" against Armenians
Killing hundreds of thousands [wikipedia.org] of people deserve a bit more than quotation marks, don't you think?
Germany (no holocaust denial)
Which is fucked up itself. Any historical truth is only worth as much as it is allowed to research. Jailing people for asking "has that really happened?" is not freedom of speech.
Lying about a massacre of that degree should or should not be a crime, depending on your political views, but researching it? And if I find something contrary to the "truth" set in law, am I a criminal for saying it? Does even a historian [wikipedia.org] not have the right to his own opinion anymore?
I don't deny the Holocaust, but there's a certain amount of doubt in me against any fact you have to protect by force of law. That's Thought Police, even if what they're defending is true.
The real story (Score:5, Funny)
Secret footage of Mao Tse-Tung wearing a really comfy pair of Italian loafers. The Tibet stuff is a cover story.
Tiananmen Square (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe this isn't talked about more. I can't believe it didn't come up before they decided to let them host the Olympics.
You guys know they put a bunch of farm boys into tanks and had them roll into Tiananmen Square and start shooting students, right? Shooting from their tanks onto balconies.
What do you think happened to that guy standing in front of the tank (you know the picture)? You think he's still alive? Can you imagine the courage it took to do that?
And the world rewarded these murderers with the Olympic Games.
Re:Tiananmen Square (Score:4, Interesting)
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All western nations should be taking the Chinese government as a chilling vision of things to come, and watching the Chinese people to see how the fuck we can get out of our future mess. My bet is there'll be a few more craters on the surface of the earth, and a few more chapters in our anthologies of war (I mean... "history books") before the world changes for the better. I don't think war is the right answer - civil or otherwise - but I do think it's the answer people will choose.
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I'm not so sure that the technology-literate Chinese are slowing figuring things out. I used to date a Chinese national in her mid-30s. She was very well-educated, and she was fully aware that her government regularly censored information. Her attitude about it all was "So what?" and "It's better this way in order to maintain stability and peace." For every Chinese libertarian there seems to be many more Chinese who, even while in a safe apartment in a major US city, will proudly defend the actions of their
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This has been my experience with most Chinese people who study and work in America. They are still very, very proud of their country and while defend it's actions even with full knowledge about what's happened.
I think it's the same mental process at work that fueled the reluctance of the American people to stand up and do anything even when crimes of the Bush administration became completely known and accepted facts.
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I dunno. The thing with consciousness is that it's self-supporting. Once the process has been started, it's a snowball rolling downhill.
Yeah but... (Score:2)
That was one AWESOME opening ceremony, wasn't it?
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PS the Olympic games are for sale to whoever wants to pay. I thought we settled that back when Salt Lake City got caught for bribery
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China also views Falun Gong/Falun Dafa as dangerous radicals, and they are anything but. And there's a fair number of them.
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All the evidence I've found states that it was the protesters that *start*ed shooting the soldiers and that the soldiers were specifically told not to shoot back...I guess that didn't last or the order changed...but in *my* research, the whole thing was a *lot* less one-sided than people in the west like to make out it was.
Actually, I've watched many videos taken by reporters and actually listened to what they say is happening, and it all seems quite understandable to me. For example, one reporter said that
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It's also worth remembering that the '89 Tiananmen square demo was almost exactly 70 years after the previous Tiananmen square student demo. And the earlier one was the first public action by the movement that fomented the communist revolution.
So you can see why the Chinese govt was a bit edgy.
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I don't usually post to old stories, but this needs to be said in the interest of accuracy.
Yes, tank man survived the Tiananmen square ordeal. I have seen the video of it. After the tank made I believe 2 turns (trying to go around him), and had stopped for a few minutes, a group of bystanders ran into the street and forced tank man off of the street.
This video was in a documentary called Tank Man, which I saw at documentarywire.com.
Unfortunately, this site is no longer around, or I would link you to the vid
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Here is the video. [pbs.org] You can see the part I'm talking about shortly after the beginning.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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...I would have no idea wether this is troll, funny or insightfull.
It seems you were wrong on all counts. +5 interesting isn't bad, though.
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Ignorance and apathy are the two most dangerous diseases of our time, and very difficult to cure.
Great firewall of... wtf? (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, seriously; They've invested tens (if not hundreds) of millions of dollars into a national infrastructure informally known as the "Great Firewall of China". And yet they block sites wholesale rather than by keyword, URL, or a dozen other possibilities? If they're trying to keep this as transparent to the population as possible, why constantly block and unblock popular sites? It just compels people to ask the question "Why do they keep blocking/unblocking this site?" And the answer is only a google query away.
I'm not arguing for or against censorship here, I'm merely pointing out that it's difficult to imagine that they lack the most basic capabilities of censorship software that is sold commercially and globally elsewhere, and that it is not technically challenging to impliment those features. Why spend millions on an infrastructure item that lacks even the most basic features needed for its intended use?
Re:Great firewall of... wtf? (Score:5, Insightful)
It IS transparent to the population of China. I live here, and its just not an issue even with the net-addicted teenagers I teach every day. They all use Chinese video sites, and the only people annoyed by this are us westerners.
Think of it this way: how many Chinese language sites do you go to every day? Would you notice if a few got shut down? That, my friends, is the reality of this to the average Chinese person.
Now, if they shut down WOW, we'd have a revolution today!
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6. Profit!! (I post way too many of these.)
MOD PARENT UP! :) (Score:2)
You make an excellent point. I've always operated under the assumption that english was taught rather pervasively, and so they would also use english sites.
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heh.. Spanish is taught a lot in the US... how many teenagers do you see using Spanish websites?
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Spanish is taught a lot in the US... how many teenagers do you see using Spanish websites?
Not many.
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I can't even get my coworkers to go to Wikipedia for simple explanations of some of the technical matters we work with on a day-to-day basis.
Only a tiny fraction of the population will even notice if some site gets taken down, and they probably won't care.
Re:Great firewall of... wtf? (Score:5, Informative)
Youtube isn't globally popular:
http://www.youku.com/ [youku.com]
Facebook isn't globally popular:
http://www.zhanzuo.com/ [zhanzuo.com]
MSN messenger isn't globally popular:
http://www.qq.com/ [qq.com]
And in fact there is a cloned super-sanitized version of every web service that exists, so the majority of people just don't notice or even care.
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I wonder how many people would react if the number 2 or number 3 video site in America disappeared for a week or two. (assuming, of course, that we have been conditioned to accept bullying and cens
They are already get used to it (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess people in China has already get used to censorship, when they can't access something, they won't get curious and then just go do something else.
You might said that no one would do that, but remember the cultural differences, Chinese People has had censorship for thousands of years. Back then, if your name has the same word as the emperor, you are doomed, your head will get cut off if you insult the emperor etc...
Yes, now the youth with influence from the west might do different, but it will take a l
Chinese have many ways getting around censorhsip (Score:3, Informative)
WHOOSH! (Score:1, Offtopic)
WHOOSH!
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Several.
With varying levels of subtlety, from kindergarten to intellectual.
Keep forgetting this is slashdot. Stick to the fart jokes, movie quotes and internet memes.
Must write that down somewhere...
I say who gives a crap (Score:1)
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I don't live there, it doesn't affect me.
China's lack of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and free elections are incredibly scary to me. It may not seem like that big of a deal right now, as they try to play nicely with the world. But what happens in 20 years when they become the richest & most powerful nation, and no longer have the incentive to play fairly? They have complete control over their people due to the lack of the above democratic checks. The Chinese people have no idea about the genocides committed in their near past, T
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One would assume that only a portion of that number is government and military. Another portion is either too young or too old, but I am sure that still leaves a big enough population to stand up against their government and end the oppression. For whatever reason, those people choose not to do so. Their government is the
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I am ready to do the same here, if our government keeps heading in the direction its going.
Which country? 'cos I'm starting to think that way here in Australia... :)
Internet filter my arse.
CHINA BANS YOUTUBE (Score:1)
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