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Analyzing Microsoft's Linux Lawsuit 297

jammag writes "Open source advocate Bruce Perens takes a close look at Microsoft's lawsuit against TomTom (discussed here last week), which involves an implementation of the Linux kernel, and calls it essentially a paper tiger. He notes: 'the technologies claimed in the 8 patents involved are so old and obvious that it's fair to say they have a high "Duh!" factor. There's an anti-trust angle to this suit that could blow up in Microsoft's face. And there's a high probability that some or all of the patents involved are invalid, due to recent court decisions.' Although the legal expense for TomTom to defend itself in court could be astronomical — meaning they may be forced to settle — in Perens' view Microsoft is aware its case is weak, yet hopes for a PR victory at limited cost." And reader nerdyH adds speculation from Open Innovation Network CEO Keith Bergelt that Redmond's action could be retaliation for TomTom's spurning a Microsoft acquisition bid in 2006.
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Analyzing Microsoft's Linux Lawsuit

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  • question (Score:5, Funny)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@ g m a i l . com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:07PM (#27033923) Homepage
    Why do we get so many legal analyses on slashdot from non-lawyers?
    • Re:question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sj0 ( 472011 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:15PM (#27033997) Journal

      Why are there so many analyses of technology in law magazines done by lawyers?

      Because our demographic demands it. There's only a few NYCLs in the community.

      Either we get law analysis by techies, or we don't get anything.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by MarkvW ( 1037596 )

      That's an easy question to answer. But before I'll answer, you've got to show me the money.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      That's a troll right? Or do you not see how a analysis by people with a technological background in a case involving technology would be insightful?
      • I doubt it's a troll. It might even be a larger commentary on the value we often place on legal analyses made by techies, and arrogant assumptions often made by techies in re legal issues. Surely, if I am a computer scientist or an engineer, I have the capability of understanding legal theory. After all, most lawyers began as drunken poli-sci majors. I understand fractals, therefore I also understand the Kantian theory of retribution. I can write proper technical documentation; therefore I understand the di

        • Re:question (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2009 @09:42PM (#27035597)

          Except some of us lawyers didn't begin as drunken poli-sci majors, we began as Comp Sci majors. And some of us might still think sladotters are arrogant in their assumptions re: legal issues.

          Seriously, you don't just start commenting out parts of code when something doesn't work, do you? No, you try to understand it first and then try and debug it. From the comments I've seen over the last several years, slashdotters have done little to understand legal matters and instead spout vitriol from their soapboxes, coming across no better or of more reliable opinion on something outside their field than Richard M. Zealot.

          While I don't think engineers would have any difficulty parsing the law - I didn't have any trouble with the materials in law school other than the outdated Rule Against Perpetuities - far fewer slashdotters have put in the time that is required to understand legal theory than those that comment (and often get modded +1 insightful).

        • Re:question (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Bill, Shooter of Bul ( 629286 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @10:02PM (#27035757) Journal
          No, but since I've reimplemented fat from scratch on an alternative ( unfortunately non-free) platform, I have some understanding in the technical underpinnings of Fat. By your logic, I can't comment on the legal side because I'm not a lawyer. Then how can a lawyer comment on the technical difference between say fat 12 and fat 16 ? When a legal issue touches on something that involves something other that pure law, there has to be a communication between the experts in that field and the lawyers. The layers might not understand all of the technical details, and the experts might not understand all of the legalities, but they have to come be able to understand and discuss some of the stuff outside their expertise if a fair judgment is to be reached.
    • Re:question (Score:5, Interesting)

      by omar.sahal ( 687649 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:26PM (#27034091) Homepage Journal
      considering Bruce Perens consults on avoiding licence issues for a living we can take his words seriously.
      I know this is a bit vague, but as we already have initiatives for collecting of patents could there be a pool of cash collected from donors (as in small amounts of monthly donations from any interested individuals). Any company could then fight patent trolls by then putting in a nominal amount into the fund and getting support from the fund to protect its self against bodies trying to sue it. The threat of having to settle despite a week claim would then disappear, and Linux would be helped.
      • I think this is a brilliant idea. I wish something like this existed to defend against patent trolls.

      • Re:question (Score:5, Informative)

        by tuxgeek ( 872962 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:36PM (#27034611)

        OSDL has implemented a legal defense fund for this purpose.
        http://www.osdlab.org/en/Linux_Legal_Defense_Fund [osdlab.org]

        I'm not sure how it works but I believe you can make donations to them (tax deductible?) specifically for the purpose of defending OSS developers against lawsuit from litigious douche bag companies such as M$, SCO, and various other patent trolls.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          I haven't looked into the OSDL, but if you are going to donate money to an organization with FOSS and customer rights in mind, please also consider helping the EFF. I have not affiliation with them, but they are constantly working to protect our rights and have never heard even a hint of them doing anything immoral, disrespectful or dishonest with the money donated to them.
      • since we are into money aspects, let's deal with it completely: publicize the fact that when you give MS or any other corp. that engages in patent trolling, you are indirectly hurting the companies that MS brings down with patent abuse.

      • That sounds strangely like racketeering, and could be presented as such by a legal team. Having good intentions does not absolve you of such flexible laws.

        Besides that, there is the Open Innovation Network, which is basically a bubble inside of which patents are harmless. Any companies joining agree not to assert patent claims against other companies in the network. There are many high-profile members, of which Microsoft is of course not one.

    • Re:question (Score:5, Informative)

      by ozphx ( 1061292 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:04PM (#27034365) Homepage

      Because the legal analysis will go along the lines of "While asshattery on MS's behalf, they will likely win or force Tomtom to settle". This isn't something the Slashdot demographic wants to hear.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by postbigbang ( 761081 )

        This is desperation by a fat, overgrown bunch of boors to squish a smaller company thru litigation. This, my friends, is the act of a company that's very desperate. They can't rest on their "laurels" (read: guaranteed marketshare through bullying) any more, so they pull this out of their aforementioned hat.

        Ballmer: if you're reading this, please advise your stockholders and the SEC that the backlash from this will hurt you and your credibility for years to come. My suggestion is to get a room on Paul's yach

      • This isn't something the Slashdot demographic wants to hear.

        Why would you think that?
        While I'm not sure exactly what "the slashdot demographic" might be, the fact of the matter is that the majority of slashdot readers are microsoft windows users.

    • Refer to my signature. For those who have them turned off, it says "IANAL, however I HAVE completed every Phoenix Wright game..."

    • Re:question (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) * <bruce@perens.com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:15PM (#27034475) Homepage Journal
      Lawyers have generally been reluctant to do this because they can get in special kinds of trouble.
      • Re:question (Score:5, Interesting)

        by m.ducharme ( 1082683 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @11:16PM (#27036337)

        There's also the fact that most lawyers know that giving any kind of legal opinion based on someone's article (or worse yet, a summary) is a mug's game. I'm in law school, and I've noticed that some of the hardest concepts for us new students to internalize is that

        1) matters like this are almost always more complicated than they appear to be from the outside,
        2) there are likely unseen (by us) details that may be crucial in determining the case,
        3) ultimately, the law is what a judge and jury says it is (within certain limits that vary depending on circumstances), and
        4) there are many, many situations where there isn't really a right answer.

        Lawyers learn painfully that in a situation like this, looking in from the outside, one has to make so many assumptions about facts, law, etc, that an opinion rendered here is practically meaningless. With that being the case, why bother stating anything here more complicated than a basic background of the law? Especially when your opinion is going to be accorded a great deal of weight by the others here, which leads to the kind of problems you suggested to the GP.

    • by ignavus ( 213578 )

      Why do we get so many legal analyses on slashdot from non-lawyers?

      I can't answer that. It is a question about a legal matter.

  • Targeting Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by transporter_ii ( 986545 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:12PM (#27033969) Homepage

    Would there be any difference in how Microsoft handled this case if TomTom had used FreeBSD instead of Linux?

    transporter_ii

    • Re:Targeting Linux? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) * <bruce@perens.com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:51PM (#27034727) Homepage Journal
      In that case, Microsoft could have come out with a product incorporating the BSD code, while suing other users of that same BSD code. This happened with JMRI.
      • Re:Targeting Linux? (Score:5, Informative)

        by transporter_ii ( 986545 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @08:02PM (#27034813) Homepage

        Interesting. Doesn't that assume that TomTom made the code in question public, which they wouldn't have to do with a BSD license?

        I checked and FreeBSD, as well as a long list of other operating systems will mount a FAT32 partition. With FreeBSD it is just mount with "-t msdos,' which will let it mount FAT floppies, FAT16, and FAT32 partitions.

        Of course, I'm sure you know this. What I'm just trying to figure out is if they are going after TomTom because they use Linux, or if they would be going after TomTom regardless.

        Thanks,

        transporter_ii

        • Re:Targeting Linux? (Score:5, Informative)

          by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) * <bruce@perens.com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @08:49PM (#27035197) Homepage Journal

          Doesn't that assume that TomTom made the code in question public, which they wouldn't have to do with a BSD license?

          No. You don't need to look at any code to determine that it's mounting an SD card with a VFAT filesystem. Just look at the card. That's all MS needs to assert the patent. But in any case, it's easy to look at the code in most embedded systems, and certainly on TomTom. All of their proprietary code is on the SD card too.

  • I was reading one of the patents involved earlier today and it claims to patent the installation of a computer for navigation, and word-processing (of all things) in a car. So if I get my laptop and stick it on the dash board have I violated there patent? Seems a bit dumb.. However....I know nothing about the law so....
  • Microsoft is evil.
    Linux is jesus.
    Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds are my personal heros.
    Microsoft is evil.
    Microsoft likes to take control of the industry.
    This is the year of the linux desktop.
  • by MarkvW ( 1037596 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:20PM (#27034043)

    Tom Tom, from what I've read, has been a bad open-source citizen. Nevertheless, all Linux users have a shared interest in defending Linux against FUD. It would be so cool if the Linux community swarmed this problem. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" seems to apply here. If MS is squashed here, there much less likely to go after even smaller businesses and people.

    • by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:39PM (#27034195) Journal

      I think you are probably right, but for different reasons. If the Linux and F/OSS community swarmed this problem with viral PR for TomTom (thus against MS and proprietary IP litigation happy megolithics) it would possibly change how small companies are seen. Care would need to be taken that the PR is aimed at promoting goodness of Linux and F/OSS in general. You couldn't really do an "Hi, I'm a Mac" ads, but that would be the idea. Viral because there is no big financial war chest to draw from. What the Internet did for political candidates, it perhaps could do for F/OSS and GNU/Linux in particular.

      "Intel Inside" would pale next to a well done "Linux Inside" advert.

      So, coming to the aid of TomTom via the promotion of F/OSS and statements against the financial and business crippling effects of litigation, how it drives up prices for consumer goods, limits research/development etc. and so on would go far to help TomTom. Launching the goodness campaign in response to the TomTom lawsuit would be a good start, but it would need to continue for some time. The goal being that F/OSS is seen as a better choice than proprietary software; that open hardware and standards improve things, not cheapen them. On and on, We'd have to show who the enemies are, publicly and without prejudice. There are many organizations already working at this, it just needs to go viral.

    • I believe it would be "telling of intentions" if the public was informed as to "Why is Tom Tom selected first". I see two things happening here. One, Tom Tom open sourcing their open source foundation application. The other is if Microsoft doesn't act fast enough in this Diamond Age society, they will be cast aside by the up and coming technology users who will most assuredly favor more Open Source over the "Pay Per View" that Microsoft is shouting at the rain.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Teun ( 17872 )
      Yeah, TomTom brings out a Linux client and 1 million /. ers spend $10 each for a legal fund.

      Sounds like a deal?
  • DOJ Needed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by b4upoo ( 166390 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:26PM (#27034099)

    This type of law suit in which the righteous party is forced to settle because of legal costs is exactly why Microsoft needs criminal sanctions. It is also exactly why stiff punitive fines should be levied against Microsoft. Hundreds of billions would be appropriate.

  • ... Linux has nothing to worry about, that's good enough for me. After all, he's undoubtedly got many cases of intellectual property litigation under his belt that would lead us to believe that he knows what he's talking about.

    Right?

  • what would you call it if they had actually written a linux kernel?

  • FAT translation (Score:3, Informative)

    by Wowsers ( 1151731 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:29PM (#27034129) Journal

    I read the article, Microsoft contest their FAT patent. But why would anyone need a translation table from 8.3 FAT names to the longer versions, that was only for dumb Microsoft systems that needed this translation for backwards compatibility. There is no need for such backward compatibility these days surely, long filenames are used these days???

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's only for any operating system that wants to support FAT disks with long file names. Which is every OS within the last 15 years.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by shentino ( 1139071 )

        Maybe MS could be nailed for discriminatory patent licensing if we find that, say, TomTom is the only unlicensed infringer being targeted?

        I dunno...

        • I am likely wrong, but I thought there was no rule that said a company had to license a patent to another company. So, not sure how that discriminatory licensing charge would hold up.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by gnasher719 ( 869701 )

          Maybe MS could be nailed for discriminatory patent licensing if we find that, say, TomTom is the only unlicensed infringer being targeted?

          There is such a thing as "patent abuse", but that would apply to the opposite situation: If MS licensed FAT32 to everyone in the world except that they refused to license it to TomTom, that could be "patent abuse". If it is true that MS has _demanded_ that TomTom should get a license for this patent, then "patent abuse" wouldn't apply here.

    • Re:FAT translation (Score:4, Informative)

      by Peaker ( 72084 ) <gnupeaker@@@yahoo...com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:03PM (#27034363) Homepage

      I think these translation tables *are* how long filenames are implemented within FAT file systems.

  • Unanswered (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HollyMolly-1122 ( 1480249 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:32PM (#27034145)
    Is there an equal position for Microsoft and OpenSource community in the court? - Definitely not! OpenSource community should ask in the court to review Microsoft's initial position which is not fair ! OpenSource has their source open to the entire world, so even Microsoft can sneak for possible "patent breaks", but Microsoft has CLOSED source code, so nobody knows - are there any patent breaks or not. Is this equal position: if one player play with open cards, but another has rights to play with closed cards and asks judge to look closer only that player with open cards? At least at the court both parties should be equal and should come up with source code just because of there is no other options.
  • by lostmongoose ( 1094523 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @06:34PM (#27034159)

    ...and calls it essentially a paper tiger

    It's really simple to fight then. They need a scissor lizard!

  • by shentino ( 1139071 ) <shentino@gmail.com> on Sunday March 01, 2009 @07:16PM (#27034479)

    This case of david versus goliath sounds worthy of the EFF's attention...or soemthing.

    Tomtom needs help, not because he's right, but because he's an ally.

    MS is up to no good here, as usual.

    1) If MS wins, FAT implementations will get smacked down quickly due to the effect of a cascading precedent. This includes linux mounting a floppy disk OR a flash drive OR a camera OR... need I go on?
    2) If MS forces a favorable settlement, the chill factor will freeze out competitors
    3) If MS settles out, we get nothing
    4) If MS loses the case, we have victory.

    Anyone who can call MS out as bullshit and back it up, get in touch with TomTom AND his lawyers post haste.

  • by NZheretic ( 23872 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @08:11PM (#27034859) Homepage Journal
    IANAL but IMHO, TomTom's lawyers should:
    1) request to deposition all the individual inventors named in the patents;
    2) inform the inventors that they should have independent legal representation, since submitting false claims to the USPTO is perjury, a federal crime in the USA;
    3) at the deposition really closely grill each inventor over each patent's prior art and obviousness;
    4) then ask the inventors what advice Microsoft's patent department and lawyers gave to the inventors regarding each patent's prior art and obviousness ( Lawyer client confidentiality is not necessarily a two way street );
    5) start building a case for the disbarment of any of Microsoft's lawyers who gave any advice or prodding to the inventors to ignore existing prior art and obviousness;
    6) re-write many Microsoft's patent claims in technical English ( removing legal patent jargon ) and publish the result;
    7) put out a call to the technical community for written and signed statements regarding the obvious nature of the patent claims;
    8) fully publicise the outcomes of steps 1-7.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TinBromide ( 921574 )
      IANAL, but i'll play dirty (as if I was a lawyer) and walk you through why that wouldn't work.

      1. Microsoft, as a corporate entity would only need to supply a witness with sufficient relevant knowledge and/or duties relating to the patents. I.e. if the inventors are no longer inventing, they could bring in an intern who's maintaining the file system (or other tech grunt/manager), even if the inventor is currently a VP of file systems or some such title.

      2. Scare tactic, unless you're bringing charges (co
    • According to the assistant director of the patent office, they haven't prosecuted a perjury case since 1974. They shut down their enforcement department. So, if you lie, all you can lose is your patent. And someone else might have to spend millions, and kill his own company, to make that happen.

      It seems that every part of the system is engineered to reward the person with bad intentions.

  • by Locutus ( 9039 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @08:50PM (#27035209)

    I think there are many of us out there who would toss a couple of hundred to TomTom for a device specifically designed and stated where the profits would go to fund the fight to put Microsoft in its place.

    If they settle then this is exactly how I and many others said would be the way Microsoft attacks GNU/Linux with their fake patent threats.

    LoB

  • hmmm, (Score:2, Interesting)

    I don't think Microsoft really cares if they win or lose this lawsuit. The message has been sent to new upstarts, either you pay microsoft their tax or face death by lawyers.
  • by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Sunday March 01, 2009 @08:58PM (#27035285)

    Per TFS, TomTom may be forced to settle. Given that if they do, it means MS can go after others using linux (Motorola, Nokia and others). Wouldn't it make sense for companies who rely on linux for their business to somehow help out TomTom to prevent MS getting a precedent they can use in the future?

    IANAL so I dont know how these things usually work.

  • "Analyzing Microsoft's FAT Lawsuit"

    Sorry Linux, Microsoft just isn't that into you.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2009 @09:12PM (#27035389)

    TomTom is the only major non-Windows GPS. All the other big names are WinCE based.

    Message to all vendors of small systems, use WinCE or face the consequences.

  • by tsa ( 15680 ) on Monday March 02, 2009 @12:22AM (#27036889) Homepage

    I've said it before: this case is probably not about the patents at all. MS have been mapping the Earth in great detail during the past years, and now they want to take over the navigation business. What better way than to first eliminate their competition, either by buying it or, if that doesn't work, by suing it into oblivion?

  • by Sparx139 ( 1460489 ) on Monday March 02, 2009 @04:17AM (#27038019)
    The free software foundation sent out this email to their subscribers on the 28th of February

    Looking at Microsoft's FAT patents through Bilski glasses

    http://endsoftpatents.org/looking-at-microsoft-s-fat-patents-through-bilski-glasses/

    Yesterday, Microsoft attacked free software and GNU/Linux users with
    software patent claims against the TomTom Navigator and its
    implementation of the FAT file system. But do they have a sword or a wet
    rag?

    With widespread support for GNU/Linux becoming a reality, are these
    patent claims an attempt to chill adoption? If so, then we need to make
    sure everyone knows about Bilski. Please read this story and use digg to
    help raise awareness:

    http://digg.com/linux_unix/Looking_at_Microsoft_s_FAT_patents_through_Bilski_glasses_2

    Sign-up or ask friends to join our End Software Patents mailing list to
    get these alerts:

    http://campaigns.fsf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/esp-action-alert

    Thanks

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