Blu-ray Update Sent To User Via Credit Card Records 526
wmoyes writes "Back in September I ran into a Best Buy store to buy a Samsung BD-P2550 Blu-ray player. I didn't give the clerk my name, telephone number, or address, just my debit card. The player has sat happily in my living room without ever being networked or registered. Today I was shocked to find a package waiting for me at home from Best Buy — inside was a firmware update CD for the player. I used to think Windows Update was scary, but Samsung's update service tracked me to my house using the mag stripe from my bank card. Has this happened to any other Blu-ray owners?" Or is there a simpler explanation?
Customer information sharing (Score:5, Informative)
First, the facts: The Chase policy, which is similar to those of many other credit card companies, states: "You may tell us not to share information about you with non-financial companies outside of our family of companies. Even if you do tell us not to share, we may do so as required or permitted by law..."
According to the Wikipedia article, the credit card number, expiration date, and PIN verification info. I've seen tweekers do it with stolen cards. Magstripe readers are available for 50 bucks online.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I think it's more likely that he gave the cashier his Reward Zone [bestbuy.com] card and is neglecting to remember that piece of information.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a Kawasaki 24 volt drill/driver at Sams club 2 years ago. (TOTAL garbage, but thats another thread)
My GF used her sams club card for the member verify, and I used my cc for the purchase.
About 4 months ago I got a post card, addressed to me, saying that it has been recalled for fire hazard reasons. I never filled out a warranty card or anything.
Had the used the member card, it would have been sent to my gf, at her place.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Or he *returned/exchanged* a product purchased on his credit card to the store in the past and they asked him to fill out one of the return forms with name and address. Now BB has tied his address to his credit card, so he's now populated in the database with full name and address.
When he purchased the Blu-ray player, it used his credit card to lookup his record and put the purchase down on his record, even though he didn't supply his personal info at that time.
Then, when it comes time to mail out updates,
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Bestbuy doesn't ask for your address during returns/exchanges at least they didn't for me yesterday.
Of course I avoid membership cards like the plagued that they are
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Bestbuy doesn't ask for your address during returns/exchanges at least they didn't for me yesterday.
That's because they already have you on file. Nice to know, huh?
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
I tend to believe that sometime in the past you ordered something from Best Buy and perhaps gave them more information at that time. Perhaps you even had a home delivery of a bulky item.
If they are doing data mining at the level you think that they are I tend to say congratulations to them for "going modern".
The joy of data collection is that the general public should have the same power to collect data as companies do. Putting information in the hands of the public is sort of like putting Al Franklin in the senate. One knows that a shoe is about to drop.
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One knows that a shoe is about to drop.
Or be thrown.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're going to bother going to the ATM to get a couple of hundred dollars in cash?
Instead of using a credit card, where the purchase is _cheaper_ (cash back, other rewards) than with cash. I pay off my credit cards every month, they're more convenient than cash, especially now that virtually all places I go to take them (e.g. restaurants).
Re:Cash (Score:5, Informative)
Except it's not cheaper, what you interpret as cash back is actually compensation for providing your personal information and you having paid extra for the "convenience".
It's sharing a percentage of the charge the vendor has to pay for processing a credit card, ever wonder why some places (commonly gas stations) have different prices for cash/credit? Prices overall could be a few percent cheaper if nobody used credit cards and that "cash back" could be accruing interest in YOUR bank account instead of theirs!
I'll take the 2% in my savings account rather than the 1% you get back after a month (interest free) any day (and Discover doesn't give it back anymore until you've accrued a big chunk).
Also, I use credit cards for business expenses, and the transactions take longer than cash (which I use for all personal expenses). Ironically, it used to be you'd look for the line where people were paying cash as it was faster, and now the credit card payment systems have gotten more convoluted and time consuming than when we signed paper slips, never mind waiting for a slow network day or waiting for the clerk to explain which buttons to press to each person in line. (Although I love self checkouts, then there's nobody there to explain to people how to process their plastic.)
Credit cards have their place (paper trail, online ordering), but they do enable others to profit from you and your information (while you pay them for the privilege).
(And yes, of course pay them off completely every month, anything else and you should use cash simply to not spend beyond what you have!)
PS: Ever wonder why credit companies can afford such lavish advertising, promotions, sponsorships, cash back programs, technical infrastructure all while being subject to so much fraud and theft? It's because they profit so much from each of "your" transactions. Sure you can minimize the extra costs to you, but they have perfected their revenue stream and made it appear inexpensive/painless.
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Putting information in the hands of the public is sort of like putting Al Franklin in the senate. One knows that a shoe is about to drop.
Thank god it's nowhere near as horrible as putting GW Bush in the White House.
In which case, a shoe is about to be ducked?
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Informative)
My guess is that they (Best Buy) cross referenced the name they read from my credit card to one of the bulk mail lists they purchased for marketing purposes. The letter was addressed to me 'or current resident' and inside was information about how my player with this new firmware update could download Netflix movies. The update CD itself was for my specific model (BD-P2550).
The other possibility is that they cross-referenced my in store purchase via the card number to a previous on-line purchase from their web store (which would have included a shipping address). In either case, the mag stripe of my card (in an otherwise anonymous transaction) was used to make the connection, and four months later a package with a firmware update arrives at my house.
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That's probably the dumbest thing I've read all day. If you want an anonymous transaction, don't use a card.
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... congressional action.
Oxymoron.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Congress acts far too much. The country is safer and more productive when the clueless fat cats are not dictating conditions of life for people they would never deign to have at their dinner tables.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Funny)
Even without credit card part, this story is quite interesting. There are annoying DRM systems. There are pain-in-the-ass DRM systems. But then, miles above all this, there is that ultimate sometimes-go-to-the-shop-and-take-firmware-update-CD-and-unbrick-your-player-again DRM that almost renders any owner of such device as total moron.
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My usual grocery store (Central Market) sends us monthly coupons, addressed to us, despite the fact that we've never given them anything more than a credit card. We live rather far from the store, and I know that they don't send them at random to our town; only regular customers get 'em.
I've also done the full opt-out privacy thing for every card I have as soon as I get it.
Thus, yeah, I assumed that when I used my credit card the vendor had access to my billing address. Either that was automatic, or they
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
The package in the OP was from Best Buy for a Samsung player. Best odds are that Samsung knows absolutely nothing about this guy, they just told Best Buy that "hey, here's a firmware update for player model xyz."
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I believe that this applies to single cash transactions of > $10k, or multiple smaller transaction that equal or exceed 10k over a specified period of time. Also, only the following companies are required to report these transaction:
- banks
- securities companies
- money services companies
- casinos
- gem/precious metal dealers
- insurance companies
Notably, car dealers are not on this list...
See the federal Bank Secrecy Act - http://www.fincen.gov/ [fincen.gov]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In Europe the limit is €15,000, and car dealers are on the list.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, highly unlikely...the magstripe doesn't store that info, so they would have to get that info from the card issuer (not Visa or Mastercard, the issuing bank) recursively. The card acquirer isn't even privy to that info unless there is a chargeback case or something where the consumer needs to be contacted. Card-issuing banks are beholden to regulations that would make most industries not even want to get out of bed in the morning and turn on the cash register; and they are extremely careful with what they do with cardholder info (lest they lose their charter with Visa/MC and have to close shop).
Also, consider it from a business standpoint: even if you can get around the regulatory stuff, the CC issuer isn't going to pass that info along for free (they would have to have frame circuits or encrypted FTP channels or some secure way to send batches of data safely from the issuer to BB and then to Samsung--and no, it's not going over the same pipes that the authorization and capture are being passed through...that's going to be a totally different environment, likely through a third party processor; then there are operational expenses, etc...nobody does this stuff for free). How much is that data really worth to Samsung? BB has to be in that loop, because the cardhlder didn't by the device from Samsung; the issuer doesn't care that it's a Samsung device, they aren't a part of that transaction chain, so the data would have to go to BB directly. And is BB going to go through the expense to do that for just Samsung? If not, are enough companies going to want this to make it worthwhile? Again, strains credulity from a business standpoint.
And even if they did have some kind of affiliate info-sharing deal with BestBuy (which, again, is highly unlikely), they aren't going to go through he expense and trouble so that you can get firmware updates for your Blu Ray player.
Samsung got that info some other way, like a rewards card application or rebate submission that BB was able to link to an address via one of the many data aggregators out there.
All credit card industry stuff aside: yes, that is indeed scary as hell. I wouldn't be happy at all.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
They send out piles of "you are pre approved!" nonsense and then pretty much hand out a card with precious little verification. My personal favorite was the story where the guy took one, tore it into little bits, then taped it all back together and filled it out with slightly screwy info to make it look as suspicious as possible...and then he got his card in the mail. I have personally seen them send out blank checks with your account information already on them. Now, of course the fine print of this "check" is that the check being cashed or used actually adds that to your account under some strange special offer loan thing. Oh yes..these fuckers are SO scared to get out of bed in the morning...
You can face the toughest regulations in the world, but if the enforcement end of it comes down to "Well, we didn't see anything" then the point is moot. I mean for christs sake these assholes default opt in on all the private data sharing programs and then send you a tinly little brochure with 3pt font explaining what to do to opt out. Then you call the stupid number and follow the prompts and they ask strange double negative questions to trick you into pushing the wrong answer to opt out.
Now...in all likelyhood you are probably right about how they got the info in question, however, that certainly doesn't eliminate the possibilty of sheisty CC company dealings making it happen.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, there is nothing special about checks, anyone can print them up as long as they have the right account and routing information (no special printer is necessary or anything). Quicken can print them. Excel can print them. Technically, you could write your own software for it too.
In France, when the banks started increasing their fees for getting your checks printed, there was an annoyed silent protest. We would fold the checks so that they couldn't go through the machines. We would write checks using plain notepad paper writing everything by hand (including the bank information and routing number, no bar code necessary). The merchants and the banks had to accept those checks. There was a law that said that as long as all the information was correct, it was valid as any other check. So the banks accepted the checks, thereby increasing their manual processing costs, and eventually they reduced the fees for printing checks (because having cheap printed checks was as much for *their* convenience as it was for ours). Now, I'm not saying an handwritten would work in the US, the Federal Reserve in the US probably has its own rules for clearing checks, but at least, if you open Quicken or any financial software, you should see how easy it is to print your own checks from your own bank.
If anything is a problem, it's actually those special anti-counterfeiting checks. Those give the consumer a false sense of security. And they're only as marginally useful as separating the checks that must be checked more thoroughly from the checks that "look" normal, so they're still useful and every little bit helps where it comes to security I assume -- but it's at the expense of keeping the average consumer in the dark.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Informative)
Yes! Same here. And that site is
www.optoutprescreen.com [optoutprescreen.com]
I share everyone's frustration that you have to opt out of a process by which another entity can expose you to the risk of identify theft, but I can personally attest that this site is effective. I have even moved a few times since I signed up, and still remain opted-out.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Informative)
"they would have to get that info from the card issuer"
No, not really.
I worked for a telephone services company some years ago and developed their customer information system. We would only get one of two possible pieces of information from a transaction: the telephone number they called a 1-900 number from, or the Credit card number they used if they called a 1-800 number.
We wanted to get the customer information so we could send them related advertising.
There are vendors out there that will supply all available subscriber information for a telephone number, and others that will provide all available information given a Credit Card number.
Telephone numbers are not super reliable as they can be re-used, but for 5 cents we would (about 60% of the time) get a result which would give us the subscriber name and address. For 20 cents we would get about a 90% match. We sent all phone numbers to the 5 cent vendor and for those that didn't get a result we would send them to the 20 cent vendor.
Credit Card numbers are quite reliable and for 1 dollar we would get *all* of the information on the card holder. This included name, address, age, spouse's name and age, children's names and ages, your income, and various demographic information for your neighbourhood.
Given that big box stores likely get thousands of 'Card only' purchases a day I am sure they also have similar agreements with vendors, or contract with 3rd parties to do it for them.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
Credit Card numbers are quite reliable and for 1 dollar we would get *all* of the information on the card holder. This included name, address, age, spouse's name and age, children's names and ages, your income, and various demographic information for your neighbourhood.
So, uh, basically everything you'd need to impersonate the person whose card number you have? No wonder credit card companies are so eager to do chargebacks and eat the loss on fraud... There's actually negative personal security by having a credit card.
Just how choosy was the company you were doing lookups with? Can any cheapo web store get an account with them?
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Informative)
No wonder credit card companies are so eager to do chargebacks and eat the loss on fraud...
Actually, the seller gets hit with the chargeback. Hence the back in chargeback. The CC companies have no skin in the game. The people that eat it on fraud are the people that are selling. CC fraud is VERY bad.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I assume you mean eCash. First, DigiCash drove themselves into the ground. They were too advanced for their time, trying to selling a screamingly modern product to an extremely conservative group of bankers. And their headstrong genius inventor was not brilliant enough to understand he needed an independent CEO to run his business. They went bankrupt in 1998.
More importantly, they probably never would have been allowed to succeed. eCash is simply "too perfect". It offers strong anonymity, and is ex
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DentinYourHead - I own a processing company [virtualpaymentsystem.com]. Things have changed substantially in the past 3 years. It's mostly hitting the merchants now. I wish the banks were eating it, but most of it is going back to the merchants, and this is especially true of internet based transactions.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
There is most likely some other thing at work here.
Maybe it was aliens? Or little toys come to life? The guy bought the player at best buy. He received a package from best buy with an update. It doesn't take that much to figure it out.
Do best buy do anything like customer reward cards where they would have your address on file? Still, the guy says he only used his debit card. The simplest and most logical assumption would be that buying one of these players automatically puts you down to receive updates and they take the address from your debit card. Privacy nuts may hate that idea but I think it shows that Best Buy cares ;)
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It's one option that the card had something to do with it. Subby has written it that way because that is what HE thinks happened.
It could have been his mom finding the warranty card on the table trying to help the little scatterbrain out. People who don't fill out those cards, so the fact that it is missing means nothing.
He could be a damn drunk, and did it online or physically while on a bender.
The NetFlix coupon code he used (that came in the player box) could be tied to an agreement between NetFlix and
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
I've stopped shopping at stores that use my credit card as a way to get me on their mailing list.
On vacation, we bought some chocolates at Harry & David. When we got back, there was a catalog from them in our mail with my name (not "Resident") in the address. I haven't shopped there since.
Bought some exercise clothes from the local Nike factory outlet. A few days later I got a flier about an upcoming sale. I haven't shopped there since.
On a related note, I use a modified version of my signature whenever I sign one of those digital signature pads they have in Home Depot, Target, and other chain stores. It's my regular signature with two lines through the first letter of my name. I started doing this when my mom had used something similar while signing up for some kind of insurance or cell phone or something. She discovered that the printed copy of the agreement that she was given - complete with her signature on it - differed from the version which had been displayed to her on the screen before she signed it.
If my signature shows up on something and has those extra marks on it, I have at least a little better leverage to make the case that my signature was never attached to any physical agreement, and there's no way to prove that the terms with my signature were the same as the terms to which I agreed. Those marks mean they never had a physical signature attached to a document, and thus it's wholly unenforceable.
Honestly how they think they can accomplish anything with those pads, I don't get. It's akin to asking you to sign a blank sheet of paper that they can then staple to whatever agreement they want. And the courts would probably find it carries about as much weight as that should it ever become an issue.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Informative)
"Those marks mean they never had a physical signature attached to a document, and thus it's wholly unenforceable."
Totally wrong. The validity of those signatures have been upheld countless times in court. Generally, an electronic signature pad is backed by a surprisingly sophisticated system for tracking when you signed, how you signed, and what you signed, generally storing screenshots of each step of the process including the agreement for each unique signature.
Does it prove conclusively that you signed the document that they say you signed? No. but, then again, neither does your signature on a paper contract (Think about it. Do you sign every page or just the last one? ). The signature is good unless you dispute that you made it in court (and just not being sure if that is the document you signed doesn't cut it. You are expected to have a reasonable belief that it isn't).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Believe it or not, testimony plays a part in court as well. If you tell a judge it's not the contract you signed and they are trying to pull a fast one by defrauding the court, that's a pretty serious matter.
CC Info Cross Reference (Score:4, Informative)
I've stopped shopping at stores that use my credit card as a way to get me on their mailing list. On vacation, we bought some chocolates at Harry & David. When we got back, there was a catalog from them in our mail with my name (not "Resident") in the address.
I'm not saying you're wrong but you do realize it is far more likely that they got your name and address from a local mailing list vendor than from your credit card? Especially around the holidays. There are countless services available that can target promotional mailings for a fee. There are all sorts of public sources for this information including housing records. (seriously - buy a house and you will get spammed with more refinancing offers than you can imagine)
I get Harry & David catalogs too (no I don't want them), with my name on them and I've never purchased anything from H&D. They also will send you catalogs if someone else buys you a gift from H&D.
That's not to say they don't use credit card into. I never give a zip code, phone number or any other info when checking out because it can be cross referenced. I nearly called the cops on the guys at Jiffy Lube once because they drained the oil in my car and then insisted they needed my address to put oil back in. They do have a legal right to ask and can refuse service if I don't provide the information but then I have a legal right to shop elsewhere as well.
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Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Interesting)
I do this all the time, and I have never been refused. Usually the POS doesn't display the signature to the cashier for validation, just that you've entered something and clicked OK. I've actually stopped using credit cards as much as posible (only for web purchases, and big ticket items). For those companies that ask for a phone number,I don't argue with them. I just give them a fake number (usually a porn site etc). Bad data is more expensive than no data. If everyone would do this, it would reduce the incentive for companies to do this. I then stop shopping at these stores. I haven't bought anything from a Radio Shack in over a decade.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
No joke.
I'm routinely asked for a picture ID when I use my card. Strictly speaking, that's the store's prerogative. But per the merchant's agreement, they cannot require a picture ID to complete a credit card purchase. The cashiers aren't taught this, and even the managers either don't seem to know or care.
It's a minor thing, but at the movie theater, I tend to buy my tickets at the automatic kiosk (~$10) and then buy a drink (~$3). The automatic kiosk never asks for my ID, but they always ask for the lower-priced charge. And they give me hell if I've forgotten my ID.
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I have taken lately to showing my US Passport Card when asked for picture ID...
Not only does it not have my address or signature on it, I suspect that getting information about me from the US Department of State is a damn site more difficult than getting it from most other sources.
So far no one who has requested ID has objected to the passport card, which is almost a disappointment - I sometimes relish a good fight. :o)
(The US Passport card is better screened and more difficult to get than a common driver's
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Funny)
Wow. That's pretty sad.
Re:Customer information sharing (Score:4, Funny)
Getting around that security problem is easy. Just don't show your driver's license to people with eyeballs.
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Looks like Best Buy didn't share the information with anyone. Looks to me like Samsung asked BB to send out the updates to everyone who bought the player, and they did so without sharing that information with anyone else.
I think everyone's missing the point (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:you know who your customers are (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a merchant credit card account for V,MC,D, you know the telephone swipe box that sits on the store counter.
It's pretty easy for the merchant, BestBuy whoever, to get your name and address from it.
And this is one of the reasons I always use cash. I do have a debit card, but it'll only get used in an emergency. Even then I'll probably claim I don't know the PIN so that I can sign instead. [wikimedia.org]
Samsung asked BestBuy to pass on the update to whoever purchased the SKU. It's a tremendous courtesy, actually.
Well, yes you could see it as a courtesy, but it won't be. A business never ever does anything unless it thinks it will be benefitting from the action. This includes charitable contributions - the cost there will be seen as buying good will, or some other BS.
There was probably some kind of contractual obligation to send out these disks, but why the keenness to make sure the user's players were up to date? I can't imagine that Bestbuy or Samsung want to add features to the players, as if the players are lacking the user might buy a new one instead. I am guessing that the update is DRM updates... something like the ability for the player to identify copied disks, or maybe blacklisted keys or something.
There is no privacy. Get over it.
Well, there are various laws in various countries that try and give people rights to privacy, but like all rights they have to be continually defended. It doesn't help that penises like you make statements like that.... you might not care about your privacy and are willing to give it away, but when you do that you are often giving away others' privacy too.
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I don't understand. I have a PO box, too, but the post office delivers my mail to mine. Is it different for you?
Do you see the black car parked outside? (Score:5, Funny)
He then runs to the forest to find out what updates you might need.
Don't talk to him, it sounds like he's talking backwards.
Re:Do you see the black car parked outside? (Score:5, Funny)
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.ria eht ni cisum syawla s'ereht dna ,gnos ytterp a gnis sdrib eht .kcab dneb smra ym semitemos tub ,reh wonk i ekil leef i
Hmm.. (Score:2)
I'm really curious as to whether or not this would be legal..
We know where you are. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:We know where you are. (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, you should. It is combining two complete clauses. If both clauses were short, it would be optional, but it is always correct to use a comma in this case.
If you want to complain about something, complain about the comma splice in the last sentence. It should either be a period (followed by a capital letter) or a semicolon.
--David the Grammarian
P.S. Just to bring this back on topic, if you want to make it a lot harder for this to happen, use a prepaid credit card and pay with cash.
Note: there are two short clauses in that last sentence. :-)
Cash (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why I use federal reserve notes for everything I can. I bought my Wii with federal reserve notes. I bought my PS3 with federal reserve notes.
--
End The Fed [endthefed.us]
Re:Cash (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cash (Score:5, Funny)
The best part is, it never expires!
And it can be exchanged for items not available with other gift cards, like recreational drugs and sex with prostitutes.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah. The old "read half the post, think of a joke, and hit reply to tell it despite it already being told in the second half of the original post". We've all had it happen to me before. Don't feel embarrassed. :)
Re:Cash (Score:5, Funny)
You should switch to Liberty Dollar's (http://www.libertydollar.org/) to show your contempt for the government as well.
Re:Cash (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you shouldn't. They aren't money until they're accepted by Wal-Mart because that's what money is: a medium of exchange. So either get stocks, which are backed by the manufacturing/service capacity of the company issuing them, or if you want to hold wealth in silver, just buy silver bards directly. Why bother with a private currency, which inevitably has overhead costs ? What's the benefit ?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But we aren't talking about some ancient coinage. We're talking about a contemporary private coinage project. It seems likely that the number of coins hasn't topped yet, neither do these things have any historical value. Maybe in a few hundred years they're antique, but I wouldn't bet on that either
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And, the liberty dollar is against the law. The Constitution of the United States, in Article 1 section 8, reserves the right to coin money in the U.S. to the federal government.
You have just suggested he commit a federal offense.
Re:Cash (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cash (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you forget that the Constitution is there to specifically state the rights granted to the federal government? So if it wasn't there they wouldn't have the right to coin money?
Banks and states printed their own money for a lot of years. There's nothing illegal about it unless you're trying to counterfeit existing currency.
Currency is just convenient bartering, if you look at it objectively. "This wooden token is worth three chickens" is perfectly valid currency if it is accepted to have value.
Back on topic.
I'm not surprised that vendors and manufacturers are digging into the credit/debit card records for purchase histories. They're desperate since no one fills out their marketing, err, warranty cards. They need some way to track a customer base for stockholder reports. Sales histories aren't enough any more. They want to find out how to sell you more of their crap.
I hope the OP filed an official complaint with the bank and his state. Privacy laws may be in effect here since there was no legal reason for them to mine that data.
Re:Cash (Score:5, Funny)
Let me guess, Ron Paul supporter?
Re:Cash (Score:5, Interesting)
That might not be as sure-fire as you think...
http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=security/police-militarization/bestbuy-shopper-arrested-for-two-dollar-bills.txt [newsmine.org]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Or this case, [blogspot.com] which might possibly result in a SCOTUS ruling requiring cops to use their brains before using their cuffs.
Re:Cash (Score:5, Interesting)
What a sad, sad story. Check out Woz's site for more $2 idiocracy.
http://www.woz.org/letters/general/78.html [woz.org]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I frequently use $2 bills (Score:3, Insightful)
I dine out at a local eatery and they give change in 50c and $2 bills as appropriate based on your order. I tend to re-use the bills at other local places, and usually get some combination of NOOP and Cool! I've never had any issues, but also don't tend to hand them to someone who may die due to drooling on themselves.
Re:Cash (Score:4, Insightful)
What's comical is not that you're so paranoid that you'll only use Federal Reserve notes to complete purchases. Well, that's pretty amusing, but what's even more amusing is that your sig contains a link to a site dedicated to ending the Federal Reserve.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This is why I use federal reserve notes for everything I can. I bought my Wii with federal reserve notes. I bought my PS3 with federal reserve notes.
--
End The Fed [endthefed.us]
But then you don't get rewards points!
You've been pirated (Score:5, Interesting)
That is great news
if someone ever use your credit card number,
YOU receive the driver upgrade.
then you know something wrong happened
Prior use? (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you EVER used that debit card at the same store and provided your address or phone number? If you've ever done that then they have that information readily available.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
At Circuit City once they asked for my phone number. I asked why they needed it. The clerk said it was to tell where their customers were from. I said I'd give my ZIP code, which is more accurate what with number portability and all. She said they couldn't do that and it'd have to be my phone number. I told her I didn't have a phone and asked if I should go elsewhere to make my purchase. She looked down at the cell phone clipped to my belt, sighed, and completed the sale.
BTW, I wasn't lying. It was a compan
It wasn't from your debit card (Score:4, Funny)
The blueray player used the nearest WiFi access point (it can hack into secured ones). It sent its GPS position, which was cross referenced to your address at the server. It has also been sending information about all the discs you have put in it, whether you played them or not. You haven't put any pirate stuff in there, have you?
In addition, on the HDMI back channel it has been gathering information about what you watch on TV, and reporting that as well. The company sells this information to Nielson.
And you wondered why that player was so expensive.
it's the credit report agencies (Score:3, Informative)
This is not unusual. I have benefited from several class action suits where they have somehow tracked me down years after the fact, which is particularly impressive because as a student/young professional/grad student, I moved almost every year.
What probably happens is they give the debit card number (which is unique and remains unique long after you cancel/close the account) to a credit reporting agency (e.g. Equifax), and the credit agency has a record of your most recent address, which they got when you changed your address at your bank or any of your other credit cards.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Credit reporting agencies may have updated information on your whereabouts but the law restricts them to report only with your permission and only for legitimate purposes. The financial penalties are severe. Therefore, I doubt that BestBuy or Samsung walked around pulling the credit reports of hundreds or thousands of consumers without their permission just to send an update disk.
Don't panic. (Score:5, Interesting)
The 'update' DVD came from Best Buy, not the manufacturer- of course Best Buy has access to your home address, via your credit card. Samsung probably just shipped a bunch of discs to Best Buy, asking them to mail them out to owners of the player. No big conspiracy or identity theft going on, so relax.
Re:Don't panic. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, it was Best Buy who shipped the update DVD, not Samsung. But still... an update service who ships updates to you based on your mag stripe. Scary.
Re:Don't panic. (Score:5, Funny)
Not really. What if that player had a tendency to explode after 25 hours of use. Would you want to be notified of the recall?
Basic customer data mining has been around for ages. Pretty much ever since Mr. Drucker asked after your health and crop prospects in the general store.
Or pillow talk after the very first prostitution transaction...depends how far back you want to go.
Note, I'm not defending intrusive data mining.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't panic. (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Once people get used to this, what keeps naughty people from sending out legitimate looking upgrade disks that scramble your player or install software that lets them use your network connected player as a spam server? Urgh, basically virus laden spam for snail mail.
And what is wrong with this? (Score:5, Informative)
Bank, Credit Card Company, Merchant (Score:3, Informative)
If your bank account does have enough funds, Visa/MasterCard requests the transaction amount to be placed on hold on your account until such a time as when the funds can be actually transferred from your bank account to the merchant's account with a credit card merchant office (e.g. Nova). This transfer can happen instantly during b
These updates are scary! (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Check you card for any bill BB wants $30 to do thi (Score:5, Informative)
Check you card for any bill BB wants $30 to do this.
http://consumerist.com/5122504/watch-out-for-firmware-shenanigans-at-best-buy [consumerist.com]
I had a similiar incident with Circuit City (Score:5, Interesting)
A few years ago there was an interesting device being sold that acted as an email dumb terminal. The device was sold sans any real license but the expectation by the vendor was that you would sign up for their service since otherwise the hardware was "useless". Except that folks figured out how to hack it and turn it into a remote terminal for various OS. I was interested....
I trotted down to my local Circuit City only to find that many others were also interested and that they were sold out. No worries, they let me go ahead and buy one and would let me know when stock arrived so that I could pick it up.
Meanwhile the company figured out what was going on and began trying to stop efforts to repurpose their hardware - unsuccessfully. I got a letter in the mail from the company a few weeks after I had made my purchase at CircuitCity. The letter was informing me that they had decided to change the license terms on their hardware - after my purchase, that signing up for their service was "mandatory", and that if I did not do so within X number of days or receiving my device they would CHARGE MY CREDIT CARD.
Now, I had never contacted this company, I had no intentions of ever dealing with them or of buying their service, and I had not shared my contact information with them. CircuitCity however HAD shared my name and home address with them and if the letter was to be believed was also willing to share my credit card account information to facilitate a charge! I trotted back down to the CircuitCity, canceled my order, and demanded an explanation - naturally they had NO clue.
I was beyond angry to say the least and fired off a letter to CircuitCity HQ. Their response was that no way did they share my CC information with this 3rd party but they said nothing about having shared my HOME ADDRESS! I let them know that I would never shop in their stores again and have told this story more times than I can count - it's been YEARS and I have held true to my promise not to give them a cent. Seeing them go under warms my heart - the jerks. The sad thing is that I nearly made this purchase with cash, I wish I had!
As a side note, the CircuitCity I went into was one I'd never visited as it was closer to work and not my home. When I gave them my phone number they had my complete address on file! Turns out that my girlfriend's daughter had shopped there about 3 years prior and made a single purchase. They STILL had our address on file tied to that phone number when I made my purchase. So yeah, these companies do cough up data and they also hold onto it a REALLY long time - thank you TJMax!
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Personally I would have just ignored this, and if they charged me I'd have called my CC company and said it was an unauthorized charge. I also am not optimistic enough to assume that whatever happened wouldn't have happened at Best Bu
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In case anyone's curious, it was the Netpliance i-Opener:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-Opener [wikipedia.org]
A friend of mine bought two when they went under. He had grand plans to hack them, but life got in the way.
This seems to be routine (Score:3, Insightful)
I once (and only once) bought an expensive Hermes tie at a shop in a Las Vegas casino's mall, paying with a credit card. I never gave them my address, so it had to come from my credit card info. Ever since, I've been getting Hermes catalogs in the mail. They're expensive things too, zillion-color offset printings on expensive paper, stencil cuts, etc. By now, whatever profit they made on that one tie has long vanished in the costs of producing and sending me that catalog.
Apple Store was similar (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Personal Information and Tracking you down (Score:4, Informative)
As they say on Wikipedia, "citation needed". I've bought a hundreds of things at BB, and even worked there for a spell when I was between real jobs; never once was I asked for my phone number during a purchase.
Blatant and common PCI violation, actually (Score:3, Interesting)
Numerous companies either breach the policies or work around them.
Tthere was a big flap last year when the parent company of Winners and Home Sense was found to have been capturing all their customer's credit card numbers, which are supposed to be passed directly the the banks' clearing house without ever being seen by the retailer. See http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/01/18/winnersbreach.html [www.cbc.ca]
Yes, they got stolen (;-))
--dave
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm fairly sure being sent anything unsolicited doesn't allow you to flaunt copyright or patents.