Congress Tries To Strip Power From Anti-Wiretap Judge 332
palegray.net writes "Congress is attempting to strip US District Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of his power following his ruling against the government regarding immunity for telecoms in the NSA wiretapping case. Walker was appointed to the bench by President Bush, and has attempted to enforce existing prohibitions against warrantless wiretapping. From the Wired article: 'Walker, the chief judge of the Northern District of California, affirmed that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is the exclusive legal method for conducting surveillance inside the United States against suspected spies and [terrorists]. The Bush Administration argues that Congress's vote to authorize military force against Al Qaeda and the president's inherent war time powers were exceptions to the exclusivity provision.' The article makes the observation that Congress seems to be having difficulties bringing itself to enforce the laws that it has previously passed regarding wiretapping, and seems more interesting in silencing opposing viewpoints."
Update: 07/06 16:15 GMT by SS: As several readers have noted, the vote would only limit Judge Walker with respect to this particular case. His other responsibilities would be unaffected.
You Americans (Score:5, Informative)
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Just because someone shows integrity doesn't mean he's one of the good guys.
Granted, it's rare to see integrity in bad guys, but luckily it happens.
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That is a good way to get put on the watched list as you will be seen as 'un-American'.
Dark times ahead for us there are.
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Funny)
That is a good way to get put on the watched list as you will be seen as 'un-American'.
I hope that's a joke... Otherwise you should take pride in being on such a list!
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, take pride the next time you need to fly and are told at the airport you can't cause you're on the watch list.
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget flying: it's only a matter of time before it becomes finding employment. At least, that's what happened in the 50's.
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Nope. Not a joke at all.
And i'm on a couple of lists already, so i don't need to compound the matter by complaining *in writing*.
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Re:You Americans (Score:4, Interesting)
So does snailmail. Congress conveniently set up a huge pit that eats snailmail sent to them and spits it out weeks later, by which time it is no longer relevant. They don't give a shit about their comstituents. They even have responded to messages I've sent them thanking me for my support -- when I'd written in AGAINST the issue at hand!
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Re:You Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason there is no rioting in the streets is:
1) We mostly have decent jobs
2) Even if we don't, we have stuff we can do, like watch tv
3) When the economy is good, we feel unaffected, when it's bad we're just trying to get by
4) This won't affect our internet, tv, choice of cars, schools for the kids, mortgage or rent, and especially not our back yards.
5) the price of high-fructose-laden foods
It looks like more than one reason but it really isn't. Sadly, life is too good right now to be worried about things like our civil rights being eroded.
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Hmm... you know, I just read something about psychology, and this defense mechanism is one of the worst, leading to schizophrenia and living in an illusion. point 1-5 are starting to get drugs you use, as a replacement for the things you are missing deep inside of you.
The illusion is, that life is too good. In reality it isn't. But you would never allow yourself to accept this, because facing that reality (like: having allowed this cruelties to go on for such a losg time) is so painfully destroying your wor
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like more than one reason but it really isn't.
What you list is very old knowledge dating at least as far back as the Romans and generally referred to as "bread and circuses". In essence, keep the populace fed and distracted and they won't rebel.
You miss one very big innovation against dissent in modern America though - the corporate culture. The world of employment - background checks, drug tests, internet searches of what potential (and actual) employees are doing, etc. - puts a whole extra layer of difficulty and fear between citizens and their government. In most states you can be fired for any reason at all and have no legal recourse. That not only chills but deep freezes a lot of free speech and expression. Without laws to curb the corporations democracy, or what is left of it, is ultimately screwed.
Re:You Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, you are saying the government should have the right to prevent groups from being able to make their own rules and set their own standards for how they are run.
"Free speech" isn't being able to say whatever you want without any form of repercussions; it's simply the government not jailing or preventing you. Getting fired or losing your girlfriend over what you say or think is just a fact of life, and you trying to change that requires an even greater degree of control over what they exert on you.
I like you how suddenly make the switch from "employment" to "fear between citizens and government".
You can be fired for no reason at all and have no recourse? Well, duh, you can quit hiring your maid for no reason at all, too; should she be able to take you to court over you firing her? Some people will fire you over terrible reasons--maybe they are racist, maybe they just don't like you. That's life, and expecting, and wanting, to be coddled just gives someone or something else more power over you because they're the one who puts the foot down.
If you want control, the person you have to depend on, protect, and think for needs to be yourself primarily.
Re:You Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, you are saying the government should have the right to prevent groups from being able to make their own rules and set their own standards for how they are run.
Yes, they are called laws. In the same way that we no longer tolerate allowing 8 yo kids to work 12 shifts in coal mines or allow "groups" to dump toxic waste in the water supply.
"Free speech" isn't being able to say whatever you want without any form of repercussions; it's simply the government not jailing or preventing you.
And I am suggesting that political speech protections should be extended to prevent retribution from employers. These protections were less necessary in the past because corporations didn't have such a strangle hold on the government nor were the private actions of citizens so easily tracked. Now both those conditions are all too true and greater protections are required.
That's life, and expecting, and wanting, to be coddled just gives someone or something else more power over you because they're the one who puts the foot down.
No, that's life as you apparently are willing to accept it. The many combining forces to fight the powerful few isn't coddling, it's the only viable method of equalizing the situation. You may think you are Rambo however most people are mature enough to know how ridiculous a notion that is.
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Yes, they are called laws. In the same way that we no longer tolerate allowing 8 yo kids to work 12 shifts in coal mines or allow "groups" to dump toxic waste in the water supply.
Those are absolutely different scenarios than having a person agree to terms upon accepting a job. You aren't owed a job, nor are you owed their money. A fascinating concept.
And I am suggesting that political speech protections should be extended to prevent retribution from employers. These protections were less necessary in the
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Interesting)
Our system is such that we will never be able to remove the influence of rich businessmen over the government. It existed during the time of the founding fathers, and it exists today. It will exist tomorrow.
Accepting that the government will never care about your opinion unless you are a wealthy corporation or a cable news darling of the week; you're really left with just the option of organizing a grass roots campaign to boycott corporations which attempt to influence government to an extent that it really harms the public.
For example, Verizon is pushing hard for telecom immunity. If Verizon customers were gutsy enough to suck up the early termination fee and drop Verizon for its anti-consumer behavior, Verizon would eventually back down. And once a major corporation loses its money, they lose their power.
The problem is, Americans bitch and moan about everything, and yet do nothing, because as previous responses have suggested, we are easily appeased with shiny objects. Consider the Wal*Mart effect on local economies. People will complain, and yet the same people will still shop at Wal*Mart because of the low prices.
Another example: Abercrombie & Fitch and a number of other trendy apparel companies are linked to the sexual exploitation of asian women who work as slave labor on the island of Saipan. I suspect that even if someone were able to get the media to cover this, teenager girls and boys will still buy A&F products.
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Since when has trying to persuade politicians with anything other than giants piles of money done anything?
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You should probably try to RTFA and see that Congress is just going to pass the immunity law which will then take it out of the judge's hands unless the Supreme Court rules against it in the inevitable lawsuit. Yes, he does seem like one of the good guys, and thankfully they aren't doing anything to him. The law that they are going to pass, and trust me they WILL pass it thanks to the telco lobby, takes it out of his and any other judges' hands for the time being.
No specific action is being taken against
Re:You Americans (Score:5, Informative)
So there you go.
ptbob (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ptbob (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of Nixon, "I am not a crook!", yes I broke the law but the laws don't apply to The President.
The Bush Administration argues that Congress's vote to authorize military force against Al Qaeda and the president's inherent war time powers were exceptions to the exclusivity provision.
So maybe this is why the "war" keeps dragging on and on? As long as we have a war going, he thinks he can do anything he wants? (and is often the case)
We had a "war" going on with Nixon in the house too. I see a pattern developing.
Re:ptbob (Score:5, Interesting)
If it continues, it may not stop until there is a war something like the one we called 'the war between the states' among other things. Where congress has failed I see some states taking issue with the Federal government and making bold steps like several stated declaring gun bans unconstitutional, 33? states refusing Real ID, and several other very bold statements. Several localities have issued warrants for the arrest of the president and vice president. These things are not just funny party stories. It really might take only one argument like the one surrounding this story to set of a chain of events that cannot be undone.
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Nixon was in no hurry to get us out of the war though, that's the difference. He was taking advantage of the situation, prolonging it for his own benefit.
Re:ptbob (Score:5, Insightful)
So maybe this is why the "war" keeps dragging on and on? As long as we have a war going, he thinks he can do anything he wants? (and is often the case)
What do you think the "war" was created for in the first place?
Re:ptbob (Score:5, Informative)
To complete this pattern you should read A People's History of the United States. Here's a sample from page 238 at Google Books [google.com]:
Zinn continues on to describe a Homestead Act that allowed people with means to buy up land in the west for a low price (if you had means), and the government's gift of tens of millions of acres of public land to railroads.
Apparently giving business interests what they want is no longer enough, or the people in power need more power to deliver on the promise of all that lobbyist money. The quotation names the Republican party but I think it's well agreed these days that both major parties are equally likely to be owned by lobbies.
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"Mr. Bush" and "thought" in the same sentence? Are you feeling ok?
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Whether Bush is right or wrong comes down to a lot more than 'rules are for other people, not us.'
um. no it doesn't. that is the very heart of why he is wrong. and this is about wiretapping without warrants, not sharing information with other agencies. there's nothing to share without properly collected info.
Re:It's more complicated than that (Score:4, Insightful)
Name one concrete barrier to real intelligence represented by FISA.
The only reason to fear FISA is because you fear that your surveillance is without merit.
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One barrier? How about that Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar were in the United States? The FBI had specifically asked the CIA if any Al Qaeda members were in the United States and the CIA refused to answer. The CIA didn't divulge that information to the FBI until 9/12?
FISA serves to compartmentalize information. That's fine if you're worried about the government spying on its own citizens. Not so fine when it keeps the government from putting together information that's crucial to defense of its citizen
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That's not a bug, it's a feature. That's the "chinese wall" FISA established. The CIA and NSA can break any rules they feel need to, spy on anybody... except they are illegal agencies if they spy in US citizens and it's illegal to use their results in domestic law enforcement. They can't even admit they take those actions or domestic law enforcement would have to lock them up! That allowed them to get whatever foreign agents may be here but normal citizens would not be looking over their shoulders. The
Re:It's more complicated than that (Score:4, Informative)
We're at war and Bush is trying to win it.
When did Congress declare that war? We are not "At War", we are in a NATO action in one area, and a UN action in another, but we are not at war.
Re:It's more complicated than that (Score:4, Informative)
That's a tired old saying. You must not be paying attention.
The Supreme court already ruled on that and determined or should I say confirmed that we are at war. It was in the Hamdi v rumsfield case I believe. Congress doesn't have to say "we declare war" in order to take us to war. Make no mistake, we are at war and not in an action.
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Bush is trying to diminish FISA's control over his actions for good reasons.[...]
After 9/11 when the 9/11 commission looked at why we missed several signals that could have thwarted 9/11, the FISA court played a dominant role. We're at war and Bush is trying to win it.[...]
This war powers reasoning irritates the hell out of me. I don't deny that it may be necessary to expand the President's powers when we are at war, but I do think we should first require that our country actually formally DECLARE WAR on the other country before this can be invoked. And by "declare war" I mean our Congress pass a resolution stating explicitly that we "Declare War" on the enemy country.
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This war powers reasoning irritates the hell out of me. I don't deny that it may be necessary to expand the President's powers when we are at war, but I do think we should first require that our country actually formally DECLARE WAR on the other country before this can be invoked. And by "declare war" I mean our Congress pass a resolution stating explicitly that we "Declare War" on the enemy country.
Sorry, there's no such foolish regulation in the Constitution. Any act of Congress authorizing use of military force is a declaration of war. If you're so inclined, you can go find the full text of the bills that authorized action in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And if we're going to put a formal declaration in the Constitution, for the love of God, add in a "undeclare" war clause, without need of the President's consent, as well.
AUMF != Declaration of War (Score:2)
Just because the bush administration keeps saying 'War', does not change the reality of the fact that it is not a declared war.
Link [wikipedia.org]
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I guess this is just one more reason not to trust Wikkipedia and an example of how it can fool you. First, These guys seem [supremecourtus.gov]to think we are at war, they said the AUMF does activate the president's war powers
Re:It's more complicated than that (Score:5, Insightful)
>> FISA was established when the nation was not at war.
What exactly would you consider a war? We were still in the throes of the "Cold War" against a billion plus Communists armed with nuclear weapons. We had just pulled out of Vietnam, and it was the warrantless surveillance of people opposed to that war that sparked the Chuch Investigations and then FISA. So whether you consider Mr. Bush's war to be an figurative, ideological struggle, or whether you consider is to be a literal, physical struggle, FISA was a reaction to exactly the same excesses.
Besides which, FISA doesn't cover information sharing between agencies. Thats an entirely different problem. FISA simply establishes a mechanism for authorizing domestic spying.
False article summary (Score:5, Informative)
In what I am given to understand is a grand, old Slashdot tradition, the article summary (and title of the summary) bear little, if any, resemblance to the "fine" article. Neither Congress nor the Executive branch is attempting to "strip power" from this or any other judge. They are (foolishly, IMO) retroactively legalizing a series of illegal acts, and making moot a case or series of cases currently pending on said judge's schedule, but the judge's authority is not one whit affected by the proposed law.
Shame on Soulskill and Palegray for this false-faced spin-doctoring.
And yes, reading TFA and actually expecting the summary to at least remotely resemble the article is evidently proof that I'm new here.
Re:False article summary (Score:5, Funny)
I always thought the user number was a dead give away.
ok looking at my #, "always" is a bit longer than the time that I have held this view
Re:False article summary (Score:5, Informative)
the article summary (and title of the summary) bear little, if any, resemblance to the "fine" article
*ahem* The headline of TFA: "Analysis: NSA Spying Judge Defends Rule of Law, Congress Set to Strip His Power"
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Someone else has already pointed out that the Slashdot headline was virtually identical to the one Wired put above the article. I'll add that a significant portion of the summary is a direct quote from the article (that's what those quotation marks signify).
The statement "The article makes the observation that Congress seems to be having difficulties bringing itself to enforce the laws that it has previously passed regarding wiretapping, and
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It wasn't a Wired "article," it was a Wired blog. And just because Wired does something dumb doesn't mean Slashdot does too. It's the difference between journalism and hey-let's-give-our-friends-cushy-jobs-that-require-almost-no-work.
Re:False article summary (Score:4, Insightful)
Someone else has already pointed out that the Slashdot headline was virtually identical to the one Wired put above the article.
And as I said to that someone else, whatever the article title (usually written by a copy editor, not by the journalist who wrote the article) says, the actual article itself (written by the journalist who did the research) says nothing of the sort.
Unless you also wish to take an unconscionable "They did it first" policy to inaccuracy and/or dishonesty in article summaries, I see no point to your statement.
nb: If someone with mod points chooses to take me to task for my brusque tone, I'm willing to take the bad karma. As I've said before in this discussion, accuracy and honesty are far more important than karma.
Nothing new (Score:2)
You can't even call the people who run site "editors". They are barely at the janitor level. It would take what, all of 5 minutes to read the submission and clean up the summary.
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The article title is also misleading by calling the Judge "Anti Wiretap" when he interpretation of the the law was absolutely correct. Congress can change the law, but it doesn't change the fact that the laws that were on the books at the time were violated.
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You can add on top of that an inability to separate people. Both articles linked clearly mention that Walker was appointed by the elder President Bush. It would probably be more enjoyable if the current president had appointed him -- I love to see that, no matter who is in the White House at the time. I guess it's that I trust the judicial branch more than the other two.
Re:False article summary (Score:4, Informative)
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Hmm. Could the judge rearrange his docket so that he takes action on this case on Monday, before this law is passed by congress? Would it matter? If he decides the case while he still has the power to do so, would the telecoms still get immunity?
Re:False article summary (Score:5, Informative)
No, probably not, and probably, respectively.
1. Judges cannot arbitrarily re-arrange court dates.
2. It wouldn't matter if the judge could re-arrange his schedule. The Telcos would ask for a continuance (based on the disruption of schedule), and if the judge refused to allow it, any decision handed down would immediately be slapped silly on procedural grounds.
3. Bush supports Telco immunity. If nothing else, he'd probably just pardon those convicted.
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Wow, speaking as a lawyer that is definitely news to me. Outside certain time restrictions imposed by the FRCP, a judge has incredibly wide discretion to manage his calendar. I've seen court decisions dragged out for months, while others were decided within a day or two.
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...speaking as a lawyer....
Then, as a lawyer, you are aware of the importance of context. If you wish to object to my statements, then perhaps you should object to them in the context in which they are presented, rather than picking out the particular sound-bites that can be spun into arguable statements.
Picking out isolated phrases from an argument and stripping them from their context is a dishonest way to summarize an argument. But then again, I'm not a lawyer...accuracy and honesty are far more important than simply "winning t
not exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that what they're doing isn't repulsive, cowardly, and short-sighted, of course. I'm not sure who I'm madder at, fascist republicans, cowardly democrats, or the fear-driven electorate who is so terrified of terrorists they don't care what the government does. Preaching to the converted I know, so let me throw in a gratuitous go-to-hell to the the "libertarian" contingent who have been so obsessed with their own money and possessions they'll vote for anyone who promises to legalize assault rifles and lower taxes. No, not all libertarians are like this, not even most, but I've met a sizeable chunk who are basically crypto-republicans.
He is the government (Score:5, Insightful)
Congress is attempting to strip US District Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of his power following his ruling against the government regarding immunity for telecoms in the NSA wiretapping case. Walker
It is misleading to say that he ruled against the government. He represents a branch of the government, an independent judiciary, and he made a decision contrary to that of other branches of government. He has lived up to his role (nigh duty) and provided the checks and balances that keep the government as a whole in check.
Re:He is the government (Score:4, Insightful)
Side note: I hate to play the pedant, but I believe your "nigh duty" should be "nay, duty." "Nigh" means approaching or drawing near, "nay" means no. All the best!
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He has lived up to his role (nigh duty) and provided the checks and balances that keep the government as a whole in check.
But at the same time works nonstop to modify/enhance/cripple the laws to grow his authority? This is how the system of checks and balances becomes broken, when one branch has excessive influence on another branch that is supposed to hold it in check. When the executive branch works to grant immunity and enact 'special circumstances' circumvention of laws, it becomes a laughable form of
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And in continuing the discussion of the checks and balances of our government, I offer this:
"The article makes the observation that Congress seems to be having difficulties bringing itself to enforce the laws that it has previously passed..."
The Legislative branch does not enforce law, they write law. The Executive enforces law. The Judicial Interprets law.
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reminds me of how all the people upset with "Activist Judges" have conveniently forgotten that the judges are part of the checks and balances of the system..
Congress is also a check on the courts (Score:3, Interesting)
Congress decides what the jurisdiction of the courts is, and this is a check written into the Constitution - unlike FISA. Congress "stripping power," to use loaded, biased phrasing, is exactly what Article III empowers Congress to do.
One could make the argument that FISA itself is unconstitutional. After all, can, by me
Republicans and Democrats.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Republicans and Democrats have done more to strip America of her civil liberties than terrorists ever could.
People wonder why I don't vote... (Score:5, Insightful)
Who could I vote for that would actually be elected that has any sense of justice?
The president and most of Congress are traitors to our country. There is no longer a Rule of Law. Instead, we have a kangaroo legislature that rubber-stamps any and all attempts to create a police state.
How is Bush different than Saddam?
Re:People wonder why I don't vote... (Score:5, Insightful)
How is Bush different than Saddam?
He doesn't feed people feet first into plastic shredders. He doesn't use chemical weapons against citizens of his country. He doesn't have women raped and children tortured in front of their parents. He's going to be out of office via the normal process come next January.
There is a much longer list. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a fan at all. I think he's made numerous blunders and our country is weaker for it. Rampant spending, ill advised military operations that are governed by the State Department more than the Pentagon (if you're going to fight a war, fight it to win). That list goes on and on as well, but to compare him to Saddam is disingenuous at best.
Re:People wonder why I don't vote... (Score:5, Interesting)
"He doesn't feed people feet first into plastic shredders." - Neither did Saddam, or any of his henchmen. That was just a bit of War propaganda.
"He doesn't use chemical weapons against citizens of his country." - Um.. Yes he does. Mace is a good example. Almost all the vicious weapons, chemical or mechanical, that are used for torture today were first developed in the US.
"He doesn't have women raped and children tortured in front of their parents." As far as I know, you have me there. I don't think he allows parents into Guantanamo. But he does use torture, there and elsewhere on a regular basis. In fact, he probably does arrange for this to happen on some extraordinary renditions....
"He's going to be out of office via the normal process come next January." We hope. He should have been thrown from office for many crimes via the normal process already, but has managed to suppress it so far. At the least he has broken the constitution.
When I started to write this I thought it would be hard to make any kind of comparison between Saddam and Bush, but it turns out that it's quite easy. Of course, a lot of things that were said about Saddam were wartime propaganda and lies - I have little trouble believing that if the two men had each taken up the other's role they would have behaved very similarly. And of course, Saddam has not actually taken over another non-threatening country and stolen all it's raw materials.....
Please mod parent flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this not flamebait? So now you can say anything in anyway so long as it agrees with the anti-Bush memes on Slashdot.
The mod system here is broken.
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How is Bush different than Saddam?
He doesn't feed people feet first into plastic shredders. He doesn't use chemical weapons against citizens of his country. He doesn't have women raped and children tortured in front of their parents.
Not in his own country anyway. I'd wager that what Bush authorizes with his presidential findings is far far worse than anything Saddam ever did.
Re:People wonder why I don't vote... (Score:5, Informative)
He doesn't feed people feet first into plastic shredders.
Instead, he authorizes war and they're blown up, crushed, finished off by treatable diseases, or flee their homes to live in squalor in refugee camps. He only presided the capture of 80,000 suspected terrorists, and only 150 have officially died in custody.
He doesn't use chemical weapons against citizens of his country.
The same members of his current administration authorized the sale of those weapons knowing full well what they'd be used for.
He doesn't have women raped and children tortured in front of their parents.
The lawyer (John Yoo) in charge of formally defining torture said that crushing a child's testicles or raping an infant shouldn't be illegal when trying to extract information from terrorists. They haven't, to public knowledge, done that yet, but they think they should be able to.
He's going to be out of office via the normal process come next January.
Hopefully he won't start a war with Iran before he's finally removed from power, whether directly or through our client state, Israel.
That list goes on and on as well, but to compare him to Saddam is disingenuous at best.
No. Our government supported Saddam Hussein, with money and weapons, during the worst of his atrocities when his father was vice president. The same group of people oversaw the war in the gulf, and returned for round three to complete the destruction of Iraqi society in order to establish control over the resources of that area.
When virtually the same administration supports a tyrant and then accuses him of being a tyrant as an excuse to decimate an entire country, there's no reason not to make the comparison. Were it not for American support of Saddam in the 80s, the Shah from 1953 to 1979, and our continuing support of Saudi Arabia, there may have been freedom in the middle east long ago.
Saddam simply did our dirty work for us, namely, suppressing the Shia minority and keeping Iran in check and Saudi Arabia less worried about an uprising in their own state. Now we're employing the same tactics in Baghdad for the surge, where one hundred thousand mercenaries, including Sunnis no longer allied with al Qaeda, have been given free reign to "establish order."
Someone who knows the Truth! (Score:3)
I was going to write that exact comment.
Thank you for writing it. Not enough people know that, for instance, we knowingly and intentionally provided Saddam Hussein with the chemical weapons he used to kill Iranians, which chemical weapons Saddam then used against the Kurds.
Funny enough, we had him hanged for using the chemical weapons we gave him.
Aren't you proud to be an American?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Frontline has a great show called "Bush's War" that details the events leading up to the Iraq war up to a year or two before the "troop surge". It's very clear that the war was planned from the very beginning of Bush's presidency, and forced upon us by a series of brilliant media manipulation events that Karl Rove would be proud of. Among the really stupid things Bush and Cheney did were:
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How is Bush different than Saddam?
I was going to say facial hair, but apparently that is not true [freakingnews.com].
Geeze! (Score:2, Insightful)
The vote for or against amnesty not about whether telecoms participate in the future. In the future, they are supposed to get court orders -- that's the promise of the bill.
But, if they have no legal incentive to do that (i.e. they'll get sued if they don't get a court order), what's the point in going through he legal hoops and expense to get such an order?
Congress: For the Corporation, by the Corporation.
Goddamn them! Goddamn them all to hell!
Lets be clear on content (Score:5, Informative)
Lee Iacocca in his autobiography stated that people are more interested in reading headlines rather than content or Opinion.
Before any of you slashdotters start venting foam from your mouths, let us be clear on content:
1. The Congress is NOT trying to strip THIS judge from power to do anything.
2. The Congress/Senate votes on July 8th to provide immunity to Telecoms who allegedly violated law.
3. If such immunity is provided, then, and only then will this judge lose his power to apply the law to Telecoms on spying.
If the vote stalls, (any senator can bring in a "Hold") the judge can proceed on existing laws and there is absolutely NOTHING the Congress or president can do to stop him, short of impeaching him (which will invite the wrath of even Scalia and probably result in arrest of President).
The title is wrong, misleading and similar to what FOX news or Karl Rove would have done.
Shame on you s'dotters, i thought you were more intelligent and accurate than FOX News.
Congress to strip power from Congress (Score:2)
You sir, and other corrupt senators, have no clue how much damage you will be causing. No clue.
So, what are we going to do about it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Slashdot: Yellow Journalism for Nerds (Score:2)
Come on guys, do you think you could get just a little bit more sensationalistic with this?
Why are the Democrats doing this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Am I the only one who is bitterly disappointed with the seemingly spineless Democrats.
I have read Obama's explanation of his stance where he basically tells us to suck it up. Why are they really doing this? It seems to me that some folks broke the law and could/should go to jail. It also seems to me that the Democrats are bending over backward to make sure this doesn't happen. Are they as corrupt as the Republicans?
If Bill Clinton can be subjected to a witch hunt and impeached for what he did with a cigar (and which imho should never have been the subject of the aforementioned kangaroo court) surely Bush should be prosecuted to the max for lying to the public and congress so he could start a war. Wiretapping Americans was also illegal and should be prosecuted.
Didn't Adolf Hitler do stuff like this be for take (Score:2)
Didn't Adolf Hitler do stuff like this be for taking take full power and control?
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Except they are in violation of their oath (Score:5, Insightful)
Oath of Office
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
To date the only one I am aware of that is following his oath is Ron Paul. BTW - they not only say this they sign a document to the effect. The vile contempt for the American people is what irks me most. Talk about ELITISM, these guys run amok in a town so far separated from their constituency they lose touch with reality.They begin believing the hype that they are more than just regular people.Fuck that. With our technology, there is no reason for these fat team-killing fucktards to BE in Washington, they should be home in their states meeting with the people they represent instead of going on junkets, diddling pages, hiring hookers, and paying other people to do their research.
I'm not bitter. Not at all.
Congress enforces laws? (Score:2)
I thought (Score:2)
Headline Wrong, Update Wrong (Score:3, Informative)
This is definitely the most inaccurate headline I've ever seen at Slashdot. The trying-to-save-face Update is also droolingly inaccurate. Others have tried to say it, but I'll reiterate it in different words here:
THE WIRED ARTICLE IS USING THE PHRASE "STRIP HIS POWER" SOLELY AS A METAPHOR.
Congress is not voting on Judge Vaughn Walker in any way, shape, or form. His name doesn't appear in any bill, law, or motion in front of Congress. He just *happens* to be the judge that the warrantless wiretapping suits are in front of in the Northern District of California.
Yes, on Tuesday Congress plans to vote on the intercom wiretapping immunity bill (and it stinks like rotten fish), like they've been planning for some time. And yes, that would mean that the judge then couldn't rule in favor of this lawsuit. But they're not targetting any particular individual, and this is just the exact same story we've been reading about for months now regarding an intercom-immunity bill.
Congress is NOT stripping Judge Walker of any power whatsoever. Congress IS passing a new crappy law that coincidentally affects one of the cases in front of Judge Walker.
The Next American Civil War will be much bloodier (Score:2, Interesting)
Bush can NOT exercise wartime powers (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, I'm well aware that this is essentially what's been going on for the last 8 years. It's been drawn out enough to make it less extreme. Just a signing statement here, an executive order there. Of course, until Congress realizes that it's own power has been hijacked by the Executive, there's really not much that can be done.
Regardless, it really is nice to see the Judiciary stepping up lately. Hopefully some of our elected leaders get the message.
Re:I thought... (Score:5, Funny)
I've already called Homeland Security.
Meesa thinka... ahem...: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Meesa propose to giva' Senator Palpatine immediately emergency powaz!"
Somehow, I did not fail to see the sarcasm in the new Star Wars movies. Of course, the "death" of the Old Republic, happened when the North conquered the South, in a war of aggression (not sure why they call it a civil war, since it was two federations fighting each other, one to conquer and subjugate, the other to maintain the right of its member states to be independent, and the "nation of freedom" was stillborn even in 1791, for the
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Interesting. I never said it was me versus average Joe. Average Joe is the guy who still votes, expecting to take my profits (actually a part of ALL my "income" regardless of whether it is profit or breaking even) and Average Joe gets what he deserves. So do I, in fact. That's the fun part, I've already secured my money and I'm waiting for the economy to tank. See, I will do fine when the economy tanks further thanks to the help of your loving central planners. But then again, they're doing what the a
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The majority of stupid people in this country see no problem with the "us vs them" mentality
Well now, I've got my dose of irony for the day!
If you show a little respect for people and realize that they are living, breathing, thinking individuals who have something to contribute to humanity, you will have a much better chance of convincing them that some of their actions or beliefs may be misguided.
The meme of the unwashed masses is as much "us vs them" as any you listed.
Re:Meesa thinka... ahem...: (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree.
Anyone who would vote for Bush Jr. twice is wilfully ignorant.
Anyone who supports perpetual budget defecits we're going to leave to our grandkids to pay back is wilfully ignorant.
Anyone who supports tax cuts and rebate cheques while we're 500 billion overdrawn every year is wilfully ignorant.
Anyone who supports war against relatively innocent nations, first on the basis of dishonest 9/11 rhetoric, then on dishonest WMD rhetoric, then on dishonest "He's a very bad man. Aren't you glad he's dead?" rhetoric, is wilfully ignorant.
Anyone who supports demolishing our freedoms in order to attack terrorists who supposedly hate us for our freedom is wilfully ignorant.
These wilfully ignorant people, they are supporting policies which are having a massive negative impact on the entire world and her people. Tens of thousands, maybe millions of people are dead because of the actions brought about by their wilful ignorance. More Americans are dead because of these ignorant policies than were killed on 9/11.
These people are my enemies.
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Hmm, I respect individuals.
However, when I hear "someone should do something about this" or "they should pass a law to..." or "why aren't they helping us" crap, I find it hard to respect people whose opinions are derived from the various propaganda establishments.
Or "tell me, what should I do?"
Everytime I hear that question, I know for a fact it is ONLY asked as a "shut the fuck up or say something that I can disagree with."
In a world of only individuals, I fail to respect the collectives. The only thing I
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Somehow, I did not fail to see the sarcasm in the new Star Wars movies. Of course, the "death" of the Old Republic, happened when the North conquered the South, in a war of aggression (not sure why they call it a civil war, since it was two federations fighting each other, one to conquer and subjugate, the other to maintain the right of its member states to be independent,
Oh where do I begin? Most people would consider the seizure of a nation's arsenals to be an act of war, which would make the Confederacy,
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Slashdot exists to make money, which in a way makes it completely hypocritical. I would wager that if the editors do any checking, it's to make sure the headlines are as sensational as possible.
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Why should people know what the intelligence community is doing? You shouldn't as you haven't got the need to know.
At least until a group of officers come to your door.
If I were an American being wiretapped, even if I couldn't get any warning, I'd at least want the intelligence forces to need a warrant for it first. Just because they work for the government doesn't mean they're incapable of mistakes or malice.
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I like to live in a nation that protects it's citizen's from that sort of thing.
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The right to free speech does not implicitly require the obligation by others to listen. Apparently the mods would like to see more useful content in your statements.