China to Regulate Internet Map Publishing 279
hackingbear writes "After text, pictures, and videos, China starts regulating Internet map publishing (here is the google translation.) The government believes that Internet maps can represent the state's sovereignty and its political and diplomatic positions in the international community — and consequently, inaccurate maps could harm national interests and dignity, produce bad political influences, reveal national secrets and harm national security, in addition to harming consumer interests. So from now on, publishing maps would require approval and (yet another) license from the state survey bureau. That means Google, Yahoo, etc., need to remove China from the map; or maybe they just pay up some officials and their agents to acquire yet another license. And our newest 80Gbps DPI monsters need to be upgraded to identify maps together with porn."
...national secrete... (Score:2, Funny)
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Anyone who even slightly agrees with this measure is a pawn of the fascists, and would be better off sharing a forum with Gordon Brown and Georgie boy.
Re:...national secrete... (Score:5, Insightful)
If they want to wall off themselves from the world, then let them. If they don't want to use what a company from another country is doing, fine just block it if you want to (or can) but, quit bitching about everything we free people do outside your fucking borders.
They want it both ways (Score:4, Interesting)
If we had governments representing people, then the UN would would have told China to where to go a long time ago and China would have become something Cuba could laugh at.
But instead, we have governments representing corporations. (we elect them but the corps control them) To ignore china because of their fascist ways is not good for the corporate bottom line and the CEO's annual bonus. So the corps will bend and jump through hoops until they control China as well. When that happens, we will have become Star Trek's Ferengi race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi)
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Obviously the corporations remain nameless and there are no people involved, at all. Once I point out the people you will start decrying their evil intentions and your purity. Great. We'll get nowhere.
How about instead of blaming "corporations"* (why not "the devil" ? I like the devil. I think we should mention him more often) we start looking at the reality.
China has resources we nee
Re:They want it both ways (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, they (along with India) are rapidly sucking up resources we need...mainly, oil.
We are having to compete with them on this, and I think this will soon get nasty. China holds so much of our debt (US), that they will likely start using this as leverage against us in oil concerns.
Frankly, I'd like to get off China's 'teet' with regard to the resources I think you're alluding to...cheap labor.
I'm quite worried about not having any more manufacturing in the US any longer. That is a national security issues if I've ever heard one. It matters not if we have all the energy needs we need...if our suppliers of goods cut us off...we're toast.
As another poster mentioned...I'd gladly start paying 10%-20% more for most of my goods if they were made/raised in the US. I'd much rather pay a bit of a premium to support the local manufacturer and local food grower. I'm lucky that I live in LA, where we get such an abundance of fresh seafood from the Gulf....but, when I travel the US, I'm shocked to see how muchh seafood and other animal protein foods are coming in from China, or other countries, rather than our own, where we often have higher quality, and regulations on anti-biotics, drugs and pesticides that can be used.
But...that's a whole other rant....
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Minimum wage in EU is about 15$/hour I believe. Anything that is worth less than that does
Re:...national secrete... (Score:4, Insightful)
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their goal is to enslave their citizens, not just suck them dry.
because citizens with no property still have rights in this society? Like what? The right to spend every waking hour searching for a new boss until they starve to death?
Poverty and slavery are effectively the same thing, except the slave tends to be better off because he's valuable property and thus can't simply be left to die even if he becomes temporarily redundant. On the otherhand the temporarily redundant laborer in a society without slavery is for all free market purposes, worthless. He can't buy an
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because citizens with no property still have rights in this society? Like what?
Two quick examples:
1) I can get on slashdot and say "Fuck the MPAA" without fear of being snatched away in the middle of the night.
2) If the MPAA wants to mess with me, they have to go through due process of law. Sure, the laws & courts are imperfect and lean toward the rich, but it beats the hell out of what China's got.
Suggesting that American big business is as oppressive as China's government is pretty fucking shallow...
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What are you talking about? Your social safety net programs are actually the guy without a jog making a slave of me. I'm forced (on penalty of losing my liberty by going to jail) to write a check that's used, in part, to feed him.
Why does he have no job, and no prospect of getting one? Because he's been raised in a culture that tells him it's OK not to prepare for that possibility. You make it sound like the economy i
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US freedom and liberty gives the Google video truck the right to drive down any public byway and video what they see, 24/7. Other countries can alter what they want the truck to do, and what is public versus private versus secret information at their will.
If mapping is good, then it won't take long bef
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Looking over the fence gets you a few yards. It would be great if China, along with other countries with oligarchical regimes would open their borders. Nonetheless, France is also increasingly hostile for reasons of their own; perhaps secrecy, perhaps vanity, perhaps privacy. All can be valid
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Revisit and understand history not only of China, but other nations including our own. This is not to justify actions that various Chinese governments have taken, rather to put them into perspective. I've been to China on several occasions, and while there is oppression, and lack of f
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Yes, the Chinese censor the Internet. This is one of the smaller of their displeasing behaviors. Censorship is almost always a bad thing, except when the sensibilities of children are at stake.
The slumbering dragon slowly awakes after many years of dark ages. Their rulers are inexperienced, and their political system isn't as evol
Re:...national secrete... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Publish and push data all the way into their living rooms until they cut off the Internet for their people completely.
2) Publish in a flippant way: publish maps but when it comes to China put a graphic that says sensored by assholes in China.
3) Publish a website that shows ALL the stuff that China does not want their citizens to see/read/hear so that the entire rest of the world can see/read/hear it and know what Chinese government types have censored from their own people.
4) invite the Chinese government to come make the rest of the world sensor material for their benefit. I'm not saying war is good, but if you intend to tell them to fuck off they will either hide behind the wall or respond to that message.
Personally, I believe that no one should be buying ANYTHING made in China. Yes, I know it's next to impossible but I would spend an extra 10% to support companies from my country that make competing products to Chinese products.
The entire China issue is completely out of hand, and the best way IMO to stop it is to stop dealing with them. Stop buying from them. Stop selling to them. Do not go to the Olympics either. Don't watch the Olympics. In fact, I say we censor China altogether from the world's information, business dealings etc. Don't let them invest in anything anywhere else in the world. Lock up their assets that reside outside of China, close their Embassies... everything.
Yes, that will eventually hurt their people but it is their people that must overthrow the government in charge at this point.
encourage openness...by closing (Score:3, Insightful)
That doesn't make much sense to me. I think if you spent even 20 minutes reading about Chinese history in the last century you would be far less ignorant of world affairs and specifically Chinese affairs. I am in no way defending totalitarianism or censorship. I just want to point out how rediculous your "solution" sounds.
If you actually load up wikipedia a
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Basically, the two schools of thought there seem to be 'take it up the ass' to support the Chinese people or directly confront the Chinese government in some fashion. I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that we not use the same diplomacy with China that the USA did with Iraq.
So, for all you
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When Google or anyone else censors, true they are hurting the world, Chinese and Americans alike. But this "evil" is a compromise which allows them to bring more and different knowle
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And allow me to ask, what has China done to you that makes you so eager to "fuck" them? Besides having some policies that you don't agree with inside their own borders?
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Except, there is possibly different ways to say 'Fuck China': 1) Publish and push data all the way into their living rooms until they cut off the Internet for their people completely.
By spamming?
2) Publish in a flippant way: publish maps but when it comes to China put a graphic that says sensored by assholes in China.
Are you sure Chinese care about your content? Remember, you must publish it in Chinese.
3) Publish a website that shows ALL the stuff that China does not want their citizens to see/read/hear so that the entire rest of the world can see/read/hear it and know what Chinese government types have censored from their own people.
Are you sure Chinese care?
4) invite the Chinese government to come make the rest of the world sensor material for their benefit. I'm not saying war is good, but if you intend to tell them to fuck off they will either hide behind the wall or respond to that message.
Are you sure they care?
Personally, I believe that no one should be buying ANYTHING made in China. Yes, I know it's next to impossible but I would spend an extra 10% to support companies from my country that make competing products to Chinese products.
Go ahead.
The entire China issue is completely out of hand, and the best way IMO to stop it is to stop dealing with them. Stop buying from them. Stop selling to them. Do not go to the Olympics either. Don't watch the Olympics. In fact, I say we censor China altogether from the world's information, business dealings etc. Don't let them invest in anything anywhere else in the world. Lock up their assets that reside outside of China, close their Embassies... everything.
Wet dreams. This never worked on a country with more than 1 billion people. BTW, do you ever realize how much US assets in China?
Yes, that will eventually hurt their people but it is their people that must overthrow the government in charge at this point.
You are very smart at this point, but if their people rise up and overthrow your government...
BTW, when you guys are discussing wet dreams, Chinese are fighting a fscking earth quake, I hope you realiz
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Are they looking for a reason for war or something?
Well, ok, no reason to get carried away. Still, this is too much to ask for.
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Spelling it out spoils the fun though: A slashdotter, outside China, bitching about everything the Chinese people do inside their borders (and outside said slashdotter's borders).
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If they want to wall off themselves from the world, then let them.
Right, isolationism worked out real well for Japan when Perry showed up with his ships...
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Can they do this? (Score:2, Insightful)
Can a country do this? Why are on-line maps different from printed maps? Seems a bit unlikely to me.
As Google maps are satellite based, how inaccurate can they be?
Re:Can they do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, considering the Dick Cheney had his house obscured... I suppose the answer is yes. Actually with Google maps the US government has a number of areas blacked out for security reasons.
Re:Can they do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
China will be able to pull this off only because Google wants to do business there.
Let this be a reason for those who talk about "do no evil" and "Google" in same sentence (except me
Re:And google can move abroad (Score:5, Insightful)
And thereby show that the US IS as bad as china and that, yes, other countries DO tell other companies what to do with online maps.
Ugh - Maybe I should just filter out ACs...
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An essential question here is how does national law work with internet companies who are global in reach. How do we deal with uplifting people in totalitarian regimes? Do we let them fend for themselves, or do we give them the same tools which have boosted our freedom? Even if they are crippled by local laws.
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Sure, they could decide to not do business in China at all, but how would that help anyone?
It would stop Google from burying information and propagating disinformation on behalf the Chinese government. The Chinese take your land, put a bullet in you head, and charge your child 50 yaun for the bullet. [wordpress.com] What do you think the official Google.cn story regarding that event looks like? Something is not always necessarily better than nothing. Google should leave China. Staying is most certainly "evil." Your argument is the same as saying that the Chinese people are better off with TVs even if eve
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Google censors information in a lot of jurisdictions. For example, they censor certain violent and pornographic content in the EU (not sure about the US).
I've yet to see Google intentionally propagating disinformation.
What do you think the official Google.cn story regarding that event looks like?
I have no idea and wouldn't like to make any assumptions. Maybe you should have linked to the google.cn
Re:Can they do this? (Score:5, Funny)
I think you either left out a word or a comma.
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Unlike secret military bases and such, I don't think Dick Cheney's house was obscured because of any legal reasoning. My guess is that Google went along with obscuring it either out of an implied threat threat that they didn't want to bother wrestling with or just as a favor to the VP.
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Re:Can they do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
The borders go onto the map after the satellite takes the picture. Like, say, the border between China and Tibet.
rj
There is no border between China and Tibet. (Score:3, Funny)
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The "Free Tibet" movement has done more harm than good because it has muddled the legitimate grievances of the Tibet people with the specter of secession of China's second-largest province.
It seems to me that the movement is made mainly of people who see a bad situation and feel good about themselves when they burn energy on it - Whether it makes any sense or not. No rational person thinks that bumper stickers or torch assaults will return sovereignty to Tibet (even if they wanted it), but nobody's accusing those folks of being rational... I guess it does a little bit to spread awareness of a rough situation. But, as you pointed out, it's spreading a misaligned image of the situation and
Re:Can they do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Chinese government objects to maps that depict certain regions as being separate sovereign countries, such as Tibet and Taiwan, which the Chinese government holds are both part of China.
This would be similar to a map being published that showed Alaska as a separate country, or as part of Canada, as opposed to it being part of the USA.
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And even more sensitively, areas whose sovereignty is disputed with neighbouring countries. There are border disputes, small and large, with Vietnam, Nepal, Russia. Several island groups in the South China Sea (the Spratlys, eg) are claimed by China, and several other countries. Most are uninhabited but would allow a c
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I am not going to argue about either Tibet or Taiwan, as those are issues that are still under dispute. I will note, however, that neither of those regions have representation in the UN, and at least the USA does not officially recognize either as a sovereign nation.
I am not aware of the official policies of other countries with regard to Tibet or Taiwan.
Also, it was only an example. I could not come up with anything closer
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Very little of the world considers Tibet separate from China: not even the Dalai Lama thinks of them as separate, and accepts Chinese sovereignty. The issue is cultural autonomy and identity, which makes the issue more complicated. If it was felt that too many white people moving to Hawaii was diluting the cultural identity of that region and driving locals out of jobs and homes by economic pressure, would we feel comfortable with som
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Oh, they show an accurate picture of the geography.
But, political things like borders and sensitive areas are a different matter.
I don't believe this is the first time a country has objected to the way an internet mapping service represents their country.
This isn't about an accurate picture, so much as a politically driven interpretation or label. The US censors some Google data as well.
Cheers
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Can a country do this?
Of course they can. Basically, in order to produce any map, you have to somehow go and measure the area; if those who control the access the area don't permit you to enter or fly over it, you can't force yur way in; certainly not in the case of a sovereign country, but even on private land, in most cases. Of course, one could try one's luck with buying the information from whoever holds the pictures from America's spy sattelites, but I don't think the US government would like to seriously alienate China ov
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What does this mean? (Score:4, Interesting)
What happens if they just ignore their weirdo regulations and continue to publish the maps? How about just not in China?
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"So from now on, publishing maps would require approval and (yet another) license from the state survey bureau."
I know we /.ers don't RTFA, but now it looks we don't read the teeny weeny summary too.
BTW, it is not "from now on", it is from maybe 50 or 40 years ago. And the Google Chinese map is at http://ditu.google.cn/ [google.cn].
A better article (Score:5, Informative)
Google licensed PRC geographic data from Beijing United Map Technology Limited (just a guess translation) who has a electronic map service license from the National Survey Department (apparently the prime driver for the regulatory initiative). The reporter speculates that the regulatory initiave may be related to the competition between Beijing United Map Technology with its duopoly competitior, Beijing Map Advanced Technology.
The official reasons given by the Deputy Director of the National Survey Department are:
1. Inaccurate boundaries show parts of PRC as soil of other nations
2. Omission of south sea islands (disputed islands with Japan)
3. Omission of Taiwan or labeling of Taiwan as independent
4. Inaccurate boundaries between administrative regions and dissemination of important geographical data
5. Annotation of sensitive, nonpublic, or national security information on the map.
(Think of Dick Cheney's house...)
Part of Google's objection is that there are no clear laws pertaining to online maps in PRC. Thus the regulators are not acting on a solid foundation. There remains wide spread confuson on what exactly is required by these regulations.
As for Google's choices, they are actively protesting this initiative. But unless they prevail or pull out of China they would be subjected to their laws and likely to adapt to publishing only authorized versions of PRC maps.
Re:A better article (Score:4, Funny)
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IMO, if this decision came down to my personal call, I'd just erase any disputed territories from the map completely. Countries want to play games, they can play it over places no one can find on the map.
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Or Publish China-Politico Maps as a separate option from Free-Tibet Maps. This reminds me of Arab countries cutting Israel out of inflatable globes donated for education (which of course made the inflatable globe uninflatable), except stupider.
Hopefully google will publish one map inside of China, and a more sensible, complete map for the rest of us.
Oh yeah, and unobscure Cheney's house p
How in the hell (Score:3, Funny)
Fort Knox on U. S. maps (Score:5, Interesting)
It was actually a little bit exciting to see the map in Ian Fleming's novel Goldfinger, showing the United States Bullion Depository located at the intersection of Bullion Boulevard and Gold Vault Road. In those days before Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] and Google Earth, this gave at least one reader frisson of forbidden information. I wondered whether Fleming would be the target of any mysterious reprisals for publishing it.
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BT Tower (formerly the Post Office Tower) was classified as an official secret until the mid-90s, which means it didn't appear on any maps.
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Consumer Interests (Score:2, Interesting)
It's nice to see that the Chinese Government have learned from their western counterparts that anything you do in the name of "protecting consumer interests" becomes allowable. Their next lesson: "think of the children".
Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but it looks to me like the intention of this is to prevent Chinese citizens from seeing any map that recognises Taiwan or Tibet. Any one remember Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? - Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Spot on (Score:4, Insightful)
A much better option than going along with what China wants them to publish. Sometimes the best course is to let jackasses make jackasses of themselves.
rj
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Real concern == Taiwan (Score:2, Informative)
Basically, they do not want any maps to be available on the Net to their own people (or anyone else, but that is impossible) which contain such counter-revolutionary ideas such as an independent Taiwan(even if only de facto).
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No problem. Just show all of China as one country... with the capital in Taipei.
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Whether Taiwan is part of China is a political controversy, but having the "Chinese capital" in Taipei is an outright lie.
I guess it makes you feel smart and satisfied though. I guess anything that makes you feel happy goes.
English language article from CCTV (Score:3, Informative)
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Keep forbidding content, please (Score:3, Funny)
Blind people around the world should praise China for their invaluable help.
If they can find China in any way of map representation it should surely be easy to discern among different types of porn.
From a purely algorithmical point of view, of course.
I can see the bookmarks now... (Score:4, Insightful)
Argentinan case (Score:2, Interesting)
MSN Live has streets but it seems they've used very old data as they show streets th
It's long past time... (Score:2)
Openstreetmap.org already has some China coverage (Score:2)
There's already some coverage of China in openstreetmap.org (which is like Wikipedia for maps). For example, here's Shanghai:
http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.226&lon=121.5487&zoom=12&layers=B0FT [openstreetmap.org]
The coverage is only going to improve. Already in other countries, many cities are nearing completion. You can't close the mapping door after the GPS trace has bolted.
My son has a Chinese map/jigsaw-puzzle that shows (Score:2, Interesting)
Chinese culture seems to me to still be in the 19th century in many regards, and unable to engage in self-criticism. I've never met a Chinese person who could admit opposing points in relation to Tibet for example, notwithstanding that these people are all intelligent and decent in other regards.
I'd be able to feel
Sino-Indian war (Score:3, Interesting)
It ended up in part, causing a war with India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino_indian_war [wikipedia.org]
A lot of China's posturing and paranoia seems to almost make sense if you look at the history of how they have been treated by other nations.
Earthquake (Score:2)
And no it's probably not to just cover this one earthquake's damage, but really to cover news of future floods, quakes, fires, etc from outside eyes.
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If you're going for a conspiracy-ish theory, this looks more likely to be a response to the Tibet independence movements last month.
Even the Chinese aren't that efficient to draw up such a regulation/policy within a day.
Here, thar be dragons! (Score:5, Funny)
Next in China - Regulation of Respiration (Score:2)
Plans for regulations on Bodily Biological Gas Emissions by the Ministry of Natural Gas Resources are told to be underway, and citizens are urged to get their butt sizes measured at the nearest municipal authority.
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Well, China can always shoot down your sattellite, but that might be construed as a hostile act.
If Google has any actual people in China, those people could be subject to arrest or intimidation if they don't comply.
Remember, in China (and, increasingly more places), the truth is what they tell you it is. Their view on how information is handed out is a lit
Controlling the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't doing it more, they're just being caught doing it more often.
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