PRO-IP Act Passes Judiciary Committee 185
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "The Pro-IP Act has passed the Judiciary Committee unanimously, thanks to the support of committee chairman Rep. John Conyers (D-MI). We've discussed this before — it's the same bill which would create copyright cops with the power to seize computers, when powers like that have been systematically abused in other areas. But, apparently, they think the bill is just wonderful now, simply because they cut the provision that would've increased statutory damages while keeping the rest. This is the same bill that William Patry called the 'most outrageously gluttonous IP bill ever introduced in the US.'"
While we're on the subject of intellectual property, Canadian law professor Michael Geist gave a talk on Monday about "copyright myths."
I'm sure this won't get abused (Score:5, Insightful)
valid analogy invoked the first (Score:2)
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The people are "enemies" of the cops? For engaging in imaginary victimless crimes?
The cops are the "enemies" of the people for enforcing absurd and abusive laws?
It no longer matters whether you use words like Nazi once you reveal that deeper thinking,
even as you defend your "enemies".
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See what I did there? I'm obviously claiming that my neighbor's car alarm killed millions of jews.
Some people might get confused and think I was merely expressing intense dislike for my neighbor's car alarm, but people like you know what I mean.
as they said (Score:2)
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Abu Ghraib (Score:2, Insightful)
The Nazis were actually killing their enemies
I have a picture for you. [indymedia.org] Look familiar? Killed in captivity. He entered that death camp alive and in good health. There's another death camp down in Cuba. We're lobbing missles at civilians with impunity in Somalia and carting off "terror suspects" to more death camps in Ethiopia. [lewrockwell.com] You have citizens disappearing off the street, [wikipedia.org] being held in secret and tortured, with no trial or charges for years. Tell me, when does it get to be Nazi enough for you??
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It will only become Nazi enough for me when they come for me.
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Re: G's law - first post... (Score:2)
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LaskoVortex's Law : The number of posts Goodwin's law is referenced after a reference to Hitler is approximately 1.
Beware Goodwin's law referencers: I'll be referencing LaskoVortex's law at every opportuinity.
I think I speak for everyone here (Score:2)
"Awwwww, fuck."
In the spirit of Pro-Life (Score:2)
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Its just a matter of time (Score:2)
Either will legally become "probable cause" and justification of an instant warrantless search/seizure/detainment.
Freedom and privacy is screwed and our founding fathers are spinning in their grave.
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It sounds unreasonable, right? I mean, who could possibly be against checkpoints and, by extension, approve of drunk-driving? It sounds ridiculous--that's the point.
And yet, personally, just a few years ago, I dutifully stopped at at a Virginia DWI checkpoint thinking that since I was sober I had nothing to fear. And then I got ticketed for improp
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2. Wait for DMCA notice
3. Immediately call cops to raid the offices of Media Sentry because they have clearly downloaded YOUR copyright work.
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Don't think this could happen?? Well, here's an existing precedent: this is EXACTLY what you agree to if you have a kennel permit (notably in most California jurisdictions, but also in some other states) -- the terms of the permit state that your property can be searched at any time, for any or NO reason, WITHOUT A WARRANT.
In the words of G. Gordon Liddy (post prison) (Score:5, Informative)
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Come on guy, give me a fucking break. All those laws do is make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain life-preservers to use to protect themselves against the people who just ignored the gun laws.
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(this is in reference to the Amen Break, an extremely over used piece of audio that the originators were never paid for, nor were they granted copyright)
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When enough pigs will be killed because they're stupid enough for enforcing silly laws, one day will come that only the smarter cops will be left, and hell will freeze over when they'll start enforcing them...
Don't believe me? Something very similar just occured in Australia: hundreds of police officers in South Australia were caught with pirated movies on their computers, but they will not be prosecut
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It's not a meme yet, need explanation: (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY [youtube.com]
Surely, there must be a connection here. FPS games are merely training tools for violent copyright infringement terrorist.
All IP is equal (Score:2)
I'm both saddened and glad (Score:2)
As for the bill, there is nothing to be glad for there.
In the words of Bill Hicks... (Score:3, Funny)
Well, I prefer the puppet of the left.
Hey, the same guys are controlling both puppets! We're fucked!
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Sorry, but presenting a false dichotomy is also why we're "fucked"!
We have other choices. I suggest you start exercising those options before its too late. Well, okay, it might be too late, but maybe the echos of our screams might be heard in the future.
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There are actually laws regarding providing equal access to media and to the way national debates are organized. All these laws preclude 3rd parties getting any real exposure. If these laws were not sufficient,
If this passes... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seed cops; Those seeds are copyright - you cannot plant them/you violated copyright by planting them
IP cops; thank you for welcoming us to your business, we will now audit all of your computer systems
RIAA cops; thank you for welcoming us to your home, we will now audit all your media for copyright violations
MPAA cops; You know when you pirate a movie a small child dies in a third world country, you should be ashamed of yourself
And of course the "say goodbye to innovation cops", these guys will be the thought police come to audit your head for having ideas that just happened to already be copyright.
Big Mother in sooo many ways.
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Monsanto has seed cops and can sue you even if their seed was blown off a truck and landed in your field, without your knowledge.
IP Cops exist at borders.
RIAA and MPAA cops are well known for sending notices to universities.
Innovation?? What the heck is that? And are you thinking the same thing am thinking? See ya in court.
Maybe people will stop watching. (Score:3, Interesting)
The onus is on those who claim that art should be for love and not money to put up or shut up. If you're an artist, go make some art under something like Creative Commons that both allows you to make money off it when someone else is making money off it (and sue the pants off them if they don't pay you for it), and allows people who aren't making money off it to spend as much money as they want spreading the word about how awesome you are. If you're not an artist, don't forget that artists need to eat as much as you do. Actually reach into that wallet and give money to artists that take a chance and produce work that you like under a Creative Commons license (or some other license with terms that aren't crazy) and be as generous as you can afford. Every Tom, Dick, and Sally that releases something under Creative Commons isn't worth supporting just because they're releasing as Creative Commons. There is a TON of freely distributable junk out there. However there ARE people out there that every one of us reading this story would feel comfortable supporting, and rather than shovel money on a monthly basis into Comcast's, or Sirius', or Time Warner's or whomever's bank account for content that isn't worth using as toilet paper, a small fraction of that money could make a world of difference for one of the people that IS taking a risk and releasing good content under terms that are reasonable.
Where the hell is the Creative Commons Foundation of the Arts, taking donations and patronizing quality artists that release work under the Creative Commons like the foundations supporting free software? Do you think this stuff grows on trees?
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Effective ways to push against this? (Score:2)
Howabout non-us citizens (i.e. my French and Canadian friends) anything productive they can do?
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When we send our own citizens to Guantanamo under suspicion, what good are your Alien status going to do?
One Advice: US citizens can donate significant amounts to senators under a pooled fund, and convince senators and congress critters to defeat the bill.
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The solution is not to pool our money
Sorry buddy, but these days (for past 100 years), politicians listen to only one sound: The jingle of coins as they pour down in thousands into their vaults.
Politicians have no inherent skill like us. They do not posses the skills of a newbie Visual Basic programmer or even a skills to run a Blockbuster rental.
Their only skill is to match people with wants to people who have the necessary surplus of the items and taking a cut out of both. Much like the fox who offered to cut up a fish between two otters an
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Yes, to be heard you need money. Yes that shuts down the voices of the poor who can express their views only by vote.
Like in switzerland, if people vote for congressman's salary, then they suddenly will come to their senses.
Throwing money at politicians is liek throwing drugs to a drug addict and expecting him to quit because you threw too much!
Absolutely true. But that is how it is.
Unless you organise a movement and demand change by vote or money nothing will happen.
More l
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But pushing against the government is like pushing against a giant bear. It accomplishes nothing, and there's a good chance if you piss it off, you'll wind up "missing".
This would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
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Yup. It's called "Plenty of rifles and ammunition to go around". So far, it's worked pretty well: Nobody has taken my computers, or other things.....at least while I'm still alive. The RIAA and MPAA are more than welcome to try.
For those who do not feel inclined to use deadly force against Big Brother, you can always rip and download from a WiFi network. If you actually *do* get caught, you can always say that you rippe
Preface to section 408 (Score:2)
http://xkcd.com/344/ [xkcd.com]
Let us hope Ninja Stallman can defend us, because so far it's only looking like him, NewYorkCountryLawyer, and Lawrence Lessig are on our side.
The hidden upshot? (Score:2)
"Hello?"
"Hello, is this the KGB?"
"Yes. What do you want?"
"I`m calling to report my neighbor Yankel Rabinovich as an enemy of the State. He is hiding undeclared diamonds in his fire wood."
"This will be noted."
The next day, the KGB visit Rabinovich`s house. They search the shed where the fire wood is kept, break every piece of wood there, but find no diamonds. They swear at Yankel Rabinovich and leave.
The phone then rings at Rabinovich`s house.
"Hello, Yankel! Did the KGB come
Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:3, Insightful)
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Well, one held without trial on terrorism charges that we know about. I would be surprised if there weren't more.
Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:4, Insightful)
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Basically in civil forfeiture the government sues your property, accuses it of being involved in breaking the law and seizes it.
Good luck proving otherwise.
Quick overview, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfeiture [wikipedia.org]
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The war on copyright infringement is not a sane way to spend the governments money... i mean come on, we're almost at 10 trillion in national debt and now they want to create an organization, with a 7 figure salary guy at the top that seizes computers that jimmy made mp3s on from his cd collection, not knowing that one of those cds had a rootkit that monitored this and turned him in to this organization?!? WTF like we need a new agency sucking 20-40 million a year just harassing computer users who went on kazza once, not knowing what it was and deleting it when they saw all the pedo crap on it..
Hear hear. I couldn't agree more.
While I understand the need for law and order, I also realize that law enforcement and courts are already stretched thin. Our incarceration rate is also unacceptably high.
Turning a civil offense into a criminal offense while creating a new police agency and granting new powers to law enforcement is not a wise move. New powers are always used in unexpected ways, and the original intent and spirit of these new powers are often stretched beyond acceptable limits.
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Sweet, sweet jury tail (Score:2)
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The copyright cops have to follow due process
And in the meanwhile, they can take some meager/manufactured "evidence", turn that into a warrant where they seize every piece of mail, computer, and storage device in your house. Then you have to hire a lawyer. You'll get all of that back when the trial's done in a year or two unless the jury decides to convict you on that same flimsy evidence. 12 peers helps make things reasonable, but it's still a crap shoot, and you're out the lawyer money either way.
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Oh, and if the evidence is flimsy they might not charge "you" at all - they'll just charge your stuff. The constitution provides no protections for your stuff - so in a hearing
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Keep in mind that it has been decided by the Supreme Court that you're only entitled to a jury trial if you're charged with something that carries at least a six-month prison term. Oh, and that has to be within a single charge - they've already ruled that if you face 100 counts of a 1-month sentence that you don't get a jury trial.
I wonder where they got that idea...
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel f
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In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:2)
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Sure, use present tense, and say copyright infringement instead of DMCA violation, and no one can say you're wrong. But still, shit happens. [wikipedia.org]
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Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:5, Informative)
The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. -- The term "financial gain" includes receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works.
Title 17 United States Code
Section 506 Criminal offenses
(a) Criminal Infringement. --
(1) In general. -- Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed --
(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;
(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or
(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.
So under section (A) it is Criminal Infringement if you infringe and have "receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works", criminalizes ANY P2P use if you upload some much as a single file and download so much as a single file. Or if you exchange some much as a an audiocassette mix tape, or almost anything else.
Under section (B) "reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000 pretty well covers any nontrivial uploading anywhere or almost any sort of nontrivial distribution at all, even if you never receive anything at all.
Section (C) criminalizes any "pre-release" leak whatsoever. Note that later text "clarifies" that a movie released to movie theaters is still in "pre-release", so any leak of a movie running in theaters but "has not been made available in copies for sale to the general public in the United States in a format intended to permit viewing outside a motion picture exhibition facility" is criminal.
Prison sentence:
Up to 10 years for a second offense.
Up to 5 years for "the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $2,500". (Which would cover moderate P2P usage.)
Up to 1 year "in any other case". (Covering effectively anyone who has ever touched P2P at all, any anyone who has done any of a number of other trivial things such as swap mix tapes.)
I figure the US population is currently subject to well over a hundred million person-years in prison.
And for bonus points, I love the way industry lawyers pulled off most of this insane law by slipping an innocent looking sentence into the DEFINITIONS section of law, and advertising their beloved bill as merely updating copyright law to properly deal with commercial criminal infringement operations. That's the typical sort of thing that goes on when you literally allow industry lawyers to write the laws we pass.
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Title 17 United States Code
Section 101 Definitions
The term "financial gain" includes receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works.
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The ip's are real and have real people, with real hd's.
Courts know nothing about "routers" or 'wi fi"
The ip's will have connected to the
server and may have copyright files.
You sit down with a free defence lawyer who just
graduated from real estate and law night school.
A quick look into your hd's finds 'files'.
Time to look at the offer - sign right now and get 15 years.
You must also talk about a few of your friends.
Sign now.
The other option is to face cou
Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:2)
Re:The copyright cops have to follow due process a (Score:4, Insightful)
My goodness, what a protected life you must lead.
The reality is that cops follow procedure when and if they feel like it. Furthermore, merely being accused of a crime is a punitive action in this country (taken before you even get your due process and your jury trial.) Getting arrested is no fun, especially if you haven't done anything. Then you have the joyful experience of defending yourself before said jury, and when you lose because the copyright owners have unlimited funds and you do not, you're life is thoroughly trashed. That's even more true when you're fighting for your rights in a criminal court, versus a civil one.
So be very, very careful of accepting any newfound powers our government arrogates to itself, especially those granted at the behest of the private sector.
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So, the US "war on IP" is now going to invade Sweden, because they have "weapons of mass distribution AKA The Pirate Bay"...
Love this wonderful ideas that come from genius people.
This is really disappointing. (Score:2)
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Re:Waste of my tax dollars. (Score:5, Informative)
Because that's how you gain power. By making criminals of your subjects, you gain power over them - the power to threaten them with fines, imprisonment, or death. How can your government control you if you've broken no law? It can't -- at least, not reliably -- so it makes up laws that are impossible to follow or interpret, and in so doing, forces us to jump through its hoops to avoid imprisonment. It doesn't matter whether they catch all the "criminals", only that they catch enough to make examples of. Eventually, you find yourself complying, if for no other reason than that you're afraid that someday you might be picked as the "example".
"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens' What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957
And for those who automatically reject everything Rand wrote (because they don't like some of what Rand wrote), how about a former Attorney General and US Supreme Court Justice?
"With the law books filled with a great assortment of crimes, a prosecutor stands a fair chance of finding at least a technical violation of some act on the part of almost anyone. In such a case, it is not a question of discovering the commission of a crime and then looking for the man who has committed it, it is a question of picking the man and then searching the law books, or putting investigators to work, to pin some offense on him." - Robert H. Jackson [slashdot.org], 1940
And then your Federal overlords would threaten to withhold highway funding, and your state legislature would cave.
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What are you, stupid? They're not exempt from the laws; they're exempt from the enforcement. In other words, they decide who gets investigated, so they simply decide that it won't be them!
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B) What's the difference between being exempt from a law and being exempt from the enforcement? Sounds like it's very much the same.
Not sure what you got your panties all up in a bunch about.... sounds to me like what you're describing is indeed a situation where a segment of the population is above the law - and as I said, that to me is far more dangerous than a s
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They are exempted, as it is the case in Australia: hundreds of police officers in South Australia were caught with pirated movies on their computers, but they will not be prosecuted because "the ab [torrentfreak.com]
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The thing is, how much the fact that it was police officers helped not having them charged?
This is the kind of hypocrite double-standard law system the ang
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Oh, fixed link, I hope: http://roberthjackson.org/ [roberthjackson.org]
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You can't, it has never happened.
Copyright infringement is a civil matter, not a criminal offense.
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===================
545 People
By Charlie Reese --
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.
You and
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That's what I call 'calling a spade a spade' in very eloquent words.
Wow.
BTW, thanks very much for this. One of the more thought provoking things I've seen here in a while.
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And that true cause is the fact that the people, the general public, the voters, are in general shortsighted and stupid. The voters pretty well insist politicians lie to us, tell us fantasy stories, and do stupid things.
Why do we have deficits? Because voters want to hear promises that the government will give us various new swell things that cost money, and people want to hear lower taxes
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In my book the definition of "politician" is "corrupt individual".