Bill Gates's Wish Is Homeland Security's Command 374
theodp writes "PC World reports that DHS has extended the time foreign graduates of US colleges can stay in the country and work to almost two-and-a-half years, an 'emergency' change that drew kudos from Microsoft and other H-1B visa stakeholders. Looks like when Bill Gates says 'Jump,' the government asks 'How high?' Bill Gates's Congressional Testimony, March 12, 2008: 'Extending OPT from 12 to 29 months would help to alleviate the crisis employers are facing due to the current H-1B visa shortage. This only requires action by the Executive Branch, and Congress and this Committee should strongly urge the Department of Homeland Security to take such action immediately.' DHS Press Release, April 4, 2008: 'The US Department of Homeland Security released today an interim final rule extending the period of Optional Practical Training (OPT) from 12 to 29 months for qualified F-1 non-immigrant students.'"
Indian programmers are bad (Score:1, Informative)
Useless... send them back.
Re:Why, DHS? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:When has there ever been an H1-B Visa surplus? (Score:3, Informative)
The situation is pretty ridiculous right now. Every year there is only one week during the whole year (first week of April) during which employers can file H1-B applications. Then a lottery decides which ones get awarded, currently roughly with 3:1 odds, getting worse each year. The "losers" will have to wait for a full year to try again. The winners can be hired in October the same year, i.e. 6 months after the application was filed. The situation is made worse by the fact that the majority of visas are awarded to a handful of consulting companies in India who are gaming the system with "pseudo-consulting" businesses. These long delays are exactly why OPT is so important: it allows companies to higher graduates without having to wait for a full year until April and October come around.
I cannot speak for all industries, but only for the one I work in, as an engineering manager with hiring responsibility (for highly qualified post-graduate software engineers): in my field that talk about how H1-B visas are allegedly used to force lower wages is just plain nonsense. Visa status has nothing to do with wages. Actually my employer prefers US citizens, then green card holders, then employees with existing temporary work visas/permits (in that order), because it simplifies the hiring process. Keep in mind that foreigners who have spent several years in US colleges and universities are not exactly stupid. They know what the prevailing wages in their industry are, and demand the same payment as US citizens -- and they get it. Don't think that those graduates are in any way dependent on US companies for getting a job. They can get high-paying jobs just as well in Canada, Europe or anywhere else. In this industry employers' biggest concern in high-tech is how to get talent and retain employees, not how much they have to pay for it. Many large companies in the SF bay area have exactly that problem, and I would be surprised if things are different in Redmont.
If you don't like this then suggest a different solution: US citizens staying in school to get graduate degrees ? Very rare... Companies training employees for a few months before they start their job ? Takes too long, high-tech is too quick-moving for that... Companies outsourcing to engineering teams in India and China ? Yep, already happening, and not even primarily to decrease cost but just to quickly expand engineering capacity with qualified people.
Why Single Out Bill? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:When has there ever been an H1-B Visa surplus? (Score:2, Informative)
We need real H1-B reforms to stop the blatant abuse. And we should not just be opening the floodgates to purpitrate the abuse.
Now, I'm with you for truly talented and capable engineers. These are the ones that work for Microsoft, Google, and all the other big companies needing programmers and EE's.
AND if you get a Masters Degree or Ph.D. from a U.S. accredited university - you should get an automatic Green Card (after background check).
Re:Disingenous tripe (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe MS does, but, even though standard salaries are technically required by law, in my experience it isn't working out that way. First, who is to say what the standard salary is? I've seen it where the H1-B's get much lower pay than the US citizens. And...if they want to complain, they pretty much know that they will lose their job, and without the job, they get sent back home, and they don't want that. That often doesn't happen even without the threat of a job. The H1-B's see even the lowest salary here as a fortune, so they often live like crap (to a US citizen at least), and work and send their $$ home. Later, they can move back home, and live like a king...but, the effect of their depression on US tech salaries remains and kills the industry here.
If our citizens can't make a decent living after putting in $$$ for education here, well, it creates brain drain in the long run since no kids want to follow on in the tech industry since no money can be made in it. We still have surplus of talent here, b ut, I see brain drain taking its toll on the country.
Re:When has there ever been an H1-B Visa surplus? (Score:4, Informative)
I can't blame the employers for taking advantage of an overabundant supply to pick the best employees who they think will need the least on-the-job training, but I don't see any evidence of a so-called shortage. It's not even a salary issue, me and lots of others are perfectly willing to take a pay cut rather than not working at all, but employers are very skittish about that, I guess out of fear we'll just jump ship to some mythical better job later.
Former co-workers in the SF Bay Area have it even worse. Hiring managers there have claimed to routinely get *thousands* of resumes for any IT job posting. People opening entry-level jobs are getting resumes from former VPs and Directors.
I don't see where this so-called shortage comes from. Even granting that maybe me and the couple people I know are just horrible unhirable schleps, are we to believe this is true of the thousands of people trying desperately to get *any* IT job just in the SF Bay area alone?
Re:-1, Sensationalist Headline (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Give all H-1s US Citizenship Immediately (Score:3, Informative)
I know a lot of H1-B workers that use the H1-B just as a way to try and get themselves into the USA.
Re:Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics (Score:5, Informative)
Re:We never needed the program in the first place. (Score:3, Informative)
You disproved your own point - companies are *not* willing to pay for that connection. Immigration processing expenses are a heck of a lot cheaper. So that's what companies choose.
The reason that the grandparent is right on target has to do with two business trends:
- trend towards disposable tech workers
- trend away from paying any relocation expenses to new or current employees
The first trend should be within most everyone's experience. The tenure of tech workers used to be measured in years. Now it's measured in months. H1-B workers better fit this trend.
The second trend needs no explanation. Relocation used to be common for engineering/tech jobs. Now, it's rare. Again, H1-B workers better fit this trend.
I'm old enough to remember -
-The "newer" workers at my first job had been there 10 years. The old timers had been there 25 years+. And there was no 401K. People who stayed got a pension. And the pension plans were generous and safe.
-National and multi-national companies relocated people for almost 50% of all open positions.
That was my experince.
Re:Disingenous tripe (Score:3, Informative)
But the "standard" itself is depressed by the existence of the H1-B workers. Hell, it's not even just the fact that they're willing to work for less, but also just the fact that they're there: if you increase the supply of workers, wages go down. Full stop. This is fucking microeconomics 101; it's not negotiable or debatable. It's a fact!
Re:Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics (Score:3, Informative)
The "labor shortage" in the IT world is a myth. Perhaps you've not seen the infamous Cohen & Grigsby video?
Re:Why, DHS? (Score:5, Informative)
Put it this way: no matter what country you hail from, granting citizenship to all comers is a mistake that few nations make. That's not to say that illegal immigration isn't just as big a problem for other countries as it is for America, but so far as legal immigration is concerned, the citizens of any nation have a stake in who is granted citizenship. The process of assimilation doesn't happen overnight, and just because someone is a "best and brightest" absolutely does not automatically qualify them as an asset, someone of benefit to our society. Bill Gates and his ilk would like you to believe otherwise, but only because they are insulated from the effects of their manipulations, and by their past actions have shown they don't care one whit about this country and its people. Their opinions in this matter are not to be taken seriously.
Citizenship should be earned, not handed out willy-nilly. Whether you're English, French, German, Venezualan, Russian, Chinese
My fiancee is a naturalized U.S. citizen who spent many years in this country before she was sworn in. She's proud of the fact that she worked hard, proved her worth, and is now a citizen of this great nation. However, she bitterly resents the fact that thousands of other foreign-born individuals (not to mention tens of millions of illegal Mexican immigrants) are being given rights and privileges that they have not earned and do not deserve.
Re:When has there ever been an H1-B Visa surplus? (Score:2, Informative)