Are Optional Ads Worth The Trouble? 245
azuredrake writes "NCSoft's City of Heroes has just announced that in-game ads are being added to the game, provided by an advertising firm Double Fusion. However, unlike in many games, the ads being brought to CoH have been defined as 'always optional'. The publishers see the ads as a purely additional revenue stream, not as something that will ever allow advertisers to affect game content. Commentary is available at Gamasutra. Is making advertisement volunteer-based a viable way to get around cynicism? The tone of these ads seems to be 'check them out to help the game'. Are there any sites or services in which you'd voluntarily look at ads to lend a hand? "
Of course! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you find it annoying, opt out.
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Which is why I don't own a 360.
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Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole 'liscensing' and 'software as a service' is quite a scam anyway, if I'm paying for a product I don't want to see ads. I'd like to have some time and place where I do not have ads in my face. Games is one of the few mediums that ads have not yet penetrated. We see enough ads in our daily lives, on the way to/from wherever, etc, etc?
If I'm voting for a product with my dollars and I am a customer they better damn well listen, I think the optional ads is a good thing in that those of us who don't want to have it shoved down our throat get to opt out of it but I know I'm not the only one tired of being haggled for cash 24/7.
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It's amazing how intolerable commercial interruptions become once you get away from them for a while. Personally, I like to punish advertisers who
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I play CoH, though I haven't logged in since Christmas. So, I took this opportunity to cancel my account and told them that the reason was that
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The local convenience store used to have a monitor at the checkout counter that displayed continual advertisements, and enough of us complained that the entire franchise chain has severed their relationship with the advertising company that was responsible.
I'm firmly in agreement with Bill Hicks... the right thing to do is shoot all t
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And let's face it... NCSoft (and Cryptic before they sold their interest in the game to NCSoft) has dealt with the hordes of upset custom
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Still, as I said below, NCSoft have earned my trust (more so now Emmert has gone) so I'll be turning them on.
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I had some respect for him when he was in charge of CoH, but that has evaporated with his conduct now he's not.
Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is that even if half the players filter out the ads, even if no real game content is changed, even if it's just a few changed textures... the company is now beholden to two masters: the players and the advertisers. The advertising companies are going to be saying to them: "We want you to promote X, Y, and Z, and we're going to pull our advertising unless you agree with us on political point Q". We've seen it so many times before, because the advertisers have a much louder and more focussed message, so they usually get what they want. The company goes along with them because they don't really care about any of those things - they just want the money so they can focus on their game - and then you have one more voice supporting the big media companies, throwing their weight behind anti-user movements like Sonny Bono and the DMCA.
Note that none of this is going to happen today. Putting the ads into the game is free. It's 12 months down the line, when all the noise has died down, that the advertising companies come back and say "Now... you've worked all that money into your budget, you depend on it... let's talk about what you're going to do for us". Keeping the ads is far from free.
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Make the players do it (Score:4, Funny)
That would be the best of both worlds. Don't look up if you don't like in-game ads and if you don't care, do the daily.
I suppose for this to really work, it would have to be possible for both Alliance and Horde to shoot you down while you're advertising. That sounds like fun, actually.
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Can you make this an entirely new guild or something?
Make it as a double-joke. My quests are to show as many people the guild ads as possible, knowing I'm a hated extra target, but in return I get healing potions, Dexterity Bonuses, and when you level up you upgrade from waving a little flag that says "You know you want the 'Dew" to a Quantum UltraTurbo Plasma TransDimensional BannerCannon that thunders loud enough to register at the national observatory "FORD WANTS YOU EVEN MORE THAN UNCLE SAM".
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(Advertisements on TV in Japan are quite good and often more entertaining than the program they are advertising for - think Miller Lite commercials on steroids for USians. I mean come on, who wouldn't be entertained by (now Gov.) Arnold drinkin
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That was totally in-game though to draw the players who might not know that a special event is in progress to the brewfest grounds. Er, that's the basic point of advertising, isn't it?
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The cost of the game is paid up-front as the cost of an access key (with optional out-of-date installer and manual if you buy it in a brick & mortar store). To support the ongoing cost of maintaining the servers (as well as keep putting bread on the table), they released additional "chapters" which are self-contained and similar in size to the original. Not free, just different.
More on topic, the "metropolitan/urban center" environment City of Heroes seems like an en
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I was thinking the exact same after reading this in the Fire House the other day.
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I do occasionally click on ads, low-key or not -- and I do often read them -- but if you piss me off, you are decreasing your chances of getting me as a customer.
Well, it depends (Score:5, Insightful)
COH happens in a modern day metropolis. Ads and billboards aren't out of place. You kinda expect them there.
In fact, the game already _had_ billboards and posters from day 1, except they were mildly funny parodies instead of actual ads. For example stuff like ads for lawyers getting the villains out of jail after your superhero toon arrests them, or for some fictional in-game companies like Crey Industries, etc.
Replacing an ad for Crey with an ad for Microsoft, wouldn't seem out of place at all. (And doubly so for a lot of us nerds, since the Crey are a major supervillain group in the game;)
Or I wouldn't be even give it a second thought if there was a McDonald's in Galaxy City. I mean they already have fictional restaurants there, with funny names like "El Super Mexicano."
The same can't be said for a lot of other settings and genres, though. E.g., it would feel awfully weird to have billboards for IBM and Coca Cola along the road to Darnassus in WOW.
And that's really what I'm fearing. That it might re-sort genres and settings according to how fit they are for ads.
Remember that we already _had_ such an effect. Adventure games were still popular games, and that market was actually _growing_ when everyone dropped them like a hot potato in the 90's. Why? Because making a simplistic FPS was _much_ cheaper. Even if you sold less copies than an adventure, you'd still make more profit.
I can see "games fit for ads" vs "games where ads look out of place" repeating that history.
Adventures eventually made a comeback, because, basically, people eventually came to expect the same level of scripting and animations in a FPS as in an adventure. So the price difference vanished.
The same might never happen in the case of "games fit for ads" vs "games where ads look out of place." Already all else is equal. Only one of them can get more money. Short of advertisers pulling out, it stays that way.
So I fear that we _might_ slide towards every game happening in a city, or a race-track, or along of big billboard-overdosed highway. And that doesn't sound too great.
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Then you get a mess like Stargate SG1 where for example in one Episode not only does a Dell XPS laptop get more screen time then the main actors but it also saves the day ("Line in the sand").
What gets me with NCSoft is if this is optional why are they making people Opt-Out rather then Opt-In?
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Paragon City (and the Rogue Isles) are sprawling metropolises with billboards, public transportation, store fronts, movie posters, video screens, and the like. In a real city, these are all COVERED with advertising. We don't get quite the volume of advertising, fake or otherwise, in CoH, so our city feels a little lacking in that area. City of
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Seems to me that if they get replaced by boring real ads for fizzy phosphoric acid and corn syrup beverages, the game will have been impoverished slightly.
I smell a Business model (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless we see small design/PR firms emerging, whose proposed service is to make custom ads that fit the game's world atmosphere.
Say that McDonalds want to put an add into COH. Instead of copy pasting some (dull) real life add that won't work in the general atmosphere of the game, they hire such a design company which will create a humorous and twisted variation, that will make the player laugh. Thus fitting better in the global game atmosphere AND attracting more eyeballs to the add (because they are genuinely fun to watch).
Same reflection could be done for fantasy oriented games. A copy-pasted Coke add will just suck. A redesigned message on a scroll, touting the virtue of "ye olde Coke's potion of +1 awakeness. (As of today with even less "-1 charisma" calories)" together with a painting of some troll posing in a similar way as the pretty models on the real-life ads, will sound funny.
In fact during the era when sharewares where big in the 90s, there were a lot of companies pulling similar parodies of modern product into out-of place environment (fantasy, etc.), just for the fun of it. Now just imagine the money they could have earned if, instead of changing the name to avoid trademark infringements, they actually used the real names with the blessing of the companies parodied ?
Again, it depends (Score:2)
Some games are parodies and not to be taken seriously in the first place. Sure, go ahead and spam them with "for a few ducats your member could be as big as the Spanish Armada" ads, for all I care.
Some games were not parodies in the first place, and it would trip suspension of disbelief majorly. A lot of MMOs and generally RPGs went through a lot of effort to write a convincing backstory for their world, with lore quests, and everything.
E.g., much as I thoroughly disliked that game anyway,
Immersion (Score:2)
Meanwhile, while the game is actually improved by ads (potentially), NCSoft m
Re:Except... (Score:4, Insightful)
I echo the GP sentiment. If the game I enjoy is having financial trouble, my reading ads contributes to their ability to remain in business, which in turn contributes to my ability to continue to play. I would stay opted in for as long as the ads were not obnoxious. It would not take many annoying ads for me to opt out though, and if opting out was no longer an option, it would not take many annoying ads to make me cancel my subscription.
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What I want to see (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft as a loyal supporter of Lord Recluse, perhaps?
Doesn't offend me when it is on COH. (Score:5, Insightful)
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The ads shouldn't ruin the atmosphere of the game. As long as they seem appropriate wherever they appear, then I believe it is acceptable. The placement of ads in games should mimic the placement of ads in the real world.
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See, in a real-life city, you have ads for Pepsi and Coke, for McDonald's and Burger King, etc. But in a game, the first company to get in will insist that the ads are exclusively for their own product; that every burger bar in the entire city be a McDonald's, that every single drinks dispenser in the entire game world dispense
Re:Doesn't offend me when it is on COH. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not realistic or unobtrusive at all.
I take it you've never been to Atlanta?
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Targeting adds for a genre can be interesting...
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I remember when professional baseball stadiums and professional hockey rinks were not dominated by placards touting the annual advertisers. These were simpler times, during which the teams could pay the salaries of the players with the money from ticket sales, TV revenue, and merchandise.
Now that every team basically whores the spaces in their stadium to the highest bidder, the whole aspect of the games are not as pure. Every stadium has a bank, a telecommunications company, a insurance business, an aut
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A game that has modern day cities in it can appropriately have advertisements on it, just like most racing games now a days.
That was my first reaction. Unfortunately, in a supply-and-demand market, once a new income stream like that gets introduced it will start affecting prices, profits, the number of admin leeches who can be supported by each programmer and what gets "greenlighted". The beancounters will summon the fantasy RPG writers and ask why their games aren't raising ad revenue. Eventually it will be impossible to finance a game without ad revenue.
Wikipedia (Score:2, Informative)
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~Dan
Re:Wikipedia (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Wikipedia (Score:4, Insightful)
The intended purpose of Wikipedia is to inform without opinion, without bias. (hey, I DID say "intended"!). To expose facts alone, un-colored by opinion.
To me it seems that this makes advertising on Wikipedia innappropriate.
Alli
Ads could be fine if done well (Score:4, Insightful)
To work though they have to be unobtrusive. They have to be something that is just a part of the environment, and in a natural way. If they get in the way, then it is not good. That's the real problem is that advertisers seem to think that ads need to be more in your face, stop you from what you are doing to work. Well that isn't acceptable. I will not play a game where I have to sit through an ad to log in.
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Many sites too. How about... price comparison sites? That would be both relevant and appropriate, and, I think, highly effective as the viewers are commonly those considering an imminent purchase. In fact, I sometimes wonder why some segments even bother advertising elsewhere.
Of course, it also requires the product and price to be competitive, so maybe that's why.
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Delusions.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean seriously. If they even have to consider alternate revenue streams that are so obviously risky, it pretty much is the writing on the wall for the game, is it not?
But then again, I know people in marketing that are under the complete and utter idiotic delusion that people LIKE and WANT advertising. Self delusion never fails to amaze me.
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Yes, with a however (Score:5, Insightful)
Never mind the sites that *shouts* SUDDENLY ADD SOUND to a page while you're quietly trying to read an article at work.
In the end, I've gone back to just adblocking the hell out of everything, I've tried, and some sites are good with it, but the majority of other sites ruin it for those that try to play nice.
We need, Google to start a competitor to Paypal, so I can donate some small amounts of money to the sites I like. (I don't use Paypal, because they're a bunch of crooks)
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Re:Yes, with a however (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes lets all suckle at the google teat until we're so dependant on them the microsoft monopoly will seem like a pathetic joke. Lets give them our documents, our email, lets let them gather every detail they can about our lives, lets let them take a picture of our house... oh I know... they should totally handle our money too!
I agree paypal needs some decent competition, but suggesting it be handled by google is as stupid as suggesting it be handled by microsoft. Or maybe not, at least with microsoft I don't have to worry about my transaction history being added to one of the largest surveillance networks on the planet.
Thanks, but no thanks.
new adblock for firefox beta5 (Score:4, Informative)
rather annoyingly firefox beta5 isn't compatible with the mainstream release of adblock however the development build here works fine.
All i need now is a method to remove the gray tramlines running down the page on slashdot. the nesting soon reduces me to 20% width comment 20% side bar 60% tram line. god knows what mobile users get.
Helping realism! (Score:3, Insightful)
They actually had a recent costume/emote pack for Valentine's Day with wedding themed costumes. I bought it for me and a friend... and found out that all of those purchases later that it advanced the addition of the new Villain Epic Archetype by three or four months.
So I'll be leaving this on and probably actually checking out the advertisements occasionally to help out NCSoft. I like my game being improved even faster.
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(Using old form because the new, fancy, Ajaxy form does not understand UTF-8, which this does. Fix plz kthx bye.)
Games as art (Score:3, Interesting)
The idea of putting advertising in games, regardless of whether it's optional or not is an interesting one. It comes back to the question of motivation. If a studio designs a game, we assume they (programmers, artists, texturers etc.) are doing it because a) they enjoy it and b) they believe they're creating a cultural icon made up of lots of different artistic elements like sound, visuals and animation.
Now I think it's fairly accepted that anything that "Sells out" (ie. uses the artistic medium purely for profit) isn't really regarded as art. These days that may seem less the case and I bet you're all waiting to cite examples of particular genres of music and film which contain product placement, but in my opinion and I think the opinion of many of those who both create and appreciate true art (Whether it be film, music, paintings, whatever) those particular examples fail to be art and end up being advertisements in themselves.
I think that placing ads in the artistic medium of videogames negates the inherent artistic nature of them, as concern grows over whether the creators of the game were making it because of the above reason or purely to make money.
Then again maybe I'm just sick of seeing the same bunch of #%@&head corporations ripping off their workers, consumers and the environment and infiltrating every aspect of our lives. Gaming should be a form of escapism. It's hard to escape our intense, competitive, profit driven world when there's Coca Cola and Microsoft billboards in my supposedly "alternate" universe.
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The idea of putting advertising in games, regardless of whether it's optional or not is an interesting one. It comes back to the question of motivation. If a studio designs a game, we assume they (programmers, artists, texturers etc.) are doing it because a) they enjoy it and b) they believe they're creating a cultural icon made up of lots of different artistic elements like sound, visuals and animation.
Now I think it's fairly accepted that anything that "Sells out" (ie. uses the artistic medium purely for profit) isn't really regarded as art. These days that may seem less the case and I bet you're all waiting to cite examples of particular genres of music and film which contain product placement, but in my opinion and I think the opinion of many of those who both create and appreciate true art (Whether it be film, music, paintings, whatever) those particular examples fail to be art and end up being advertisements in themselves.
I think that placing ads in the artistic medium of videogames negates the inherent artistic nature of them, as concern grows over whether the creators of the game were making it because of the above reason or purely to make money.
Then again maybe I'm just sick of seeing the same bunch of #%@&head corporations ripping off their workers, consumers and the environment and infiltrating every aspect of our lives. Gaming should be a form of escapism. It's hard to escape our intense, competitive, profit driven world when there's Coca Cola and Microsoft billboards in my supposedly "alternate" universe.
I guess it depends on how it's done. Microsoft ads in Oblivion would be illusion-shattering -- but what about ads for game add-ons, done as posters and such, in an in-game style? ("Wizard's castle for sale -- see Gro-dalk the realty agent in the Market District...") You could speak to the agent if you want, get a description of the add-on, then agree (or not) to receive an email with the purchase details.
(You could even confirm in-game if you were set up to do this when you registered.)
No, I wouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Optional advertising is a great idea; it filters out the people that will be offended by it (and who will attribute that offence both to the advertising venue and the advertiser). Everyone wins, the venue doesn't offend it's patrons, the advertiser only gets it's message out to receptive listeners, and people aren't offended.
A nothing-to-lose proposition (Score:4, Insightful)
Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the tent (Score:5, Insightful)
So now they'll give in-game advertising a try. It's optional, you know - for now. If this proves to be something that brings in additional revenue the game developers will make it mandatory without a second thought.
It's just a small step past selling their customer lists to marketing firms. You didn't think that registration was so they could send you a birthday card, did you?
Re:Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the te (Score:3, Interesting)
NCSoft publishes a lot of good, unique games, and if in-game ads will help them publish more good games, I don't have a problem with it.
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The second I see an add inside a game I play I stop playing, I can't stand adds.
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Ads were once intentionally absent, then crept their way in under the gu
Useful ads? (Score:4, Insightful)
For instance, if a site wants to advertise (based on a search for robotics-related documents) that they have a good deal on stepper motors, great. I might well click through and find something I'd like. Amazon does a great job with this as far as books go -- their recommendations of what else I'd like often come up with some really cool suggestions.
What I don't want to see are ads for the general public (or even the general gamer public). Even if such a beast as a typical gamer exists, it ain't me. My taste in ads is somewhat like my taste in music -- I don't expect anyone else to like the exact mix I do (and most people's tastes will be pretty different. I admit I'm weird.)
First step (Score:3, Insightful)
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NCSoft have earned my trust on this one, and I'll be turning the ads on.
Not in a paid for product (Score:2)
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Conditionally yes but not because I want to 'help' (Score:2, Insightful)
Why would I want to 'help out' if the company is making money without extra 'help'?
This would be an understandable addition to the game if it were a necessary revenue stream, but it isn't. I do not at all feel compelled to look at them if they detract from my game playing experience in even the slightest way.
That said, if:
Never minded (Score:2, Insightful)
They add to the realism of my surroundings, and I always love fake ads when they are plastered all over games like GTA. I usually litter my own 3d art with fake ads. If the Sprunk machines suddenly became Sprite machines, I wouldn't mind.
Just don't start showing me 30 seconds spots, and use common sense that doesn't stray too far from the context of
Sure. (Score:2)
i click for south park (Score:2, Interesting)
Southparkstudios is a recent example of this. trey and matt have put the entire volume of their south park work online (and some fun games.... there is a mario kart like racing game) in an ad supported way. They went out on a limb and i think they should get some back.
What i would really like to see though is some paypal micropayment system where i could pay them to play the shows ad free. I wonde
I've never bothered with ads.. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's an empty revenue stream. Do you think advertisements on a website really sell a product more? Honestly not. I know of nobody that pays attention to them. Even moreso when the ad is in your face like "CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE ONE THIS!" or "HERE HAVE A SEIZURE WHILE TRYING TO HIT THIS MONKEY!"
Where the real revenue stream will come from is having solid content that people are willing to pay for. People don't buy from newegg because they see newegg adverts smeered all over the place. In fact, newegg doesn't even advertise on TV (though they might have a few times but it's not generally known to the public) yet they make so much money.
Back to the topic at hand, though. Simple fact:
1. I will never buy a product I see in a video game.
2. I don't want a video game wasting my bandwidth and gaming cycles to load an advertisement dynamically while I'm trying to frag someone because I'm never going to buy the stupid item in the first place.
3. I'd rather my games and fantasy worlds use "joke" versions of popular brands because it makes them funnier, laughing at some of the ways they label brands (Youtoob in South Park vs. Youtube).
I'm also that guy that walks into Best Buy that knows what he wants and is in and out. I don't buy their replacement plans, I don't buy their 5000 accessories. I want an item and I want just what I want.
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This reminds me of monkey island... (Score:3, Funny)
It was funny
this would be incredibly annoying (Score:2, Funny)
Subsidising Subscription Fees (Score:3, Interesting)
ADVERTISING IS GOOD (Score:2, Insightful)
This can be done with
1)Humor (Look at the number of people who go to YouTube and watch the from the super bowl). If there is a really good ad up and people are laughing and talking about it then other players may well activate the add feature.
2) General Interest Ads that provide information that COH players by in large want (Ohhhh look, the new Batman Movie is coming out with
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~Rebecca
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This is close to buying time on television, which does not cost pennies. You could not buy a placement spot to run 24/7 for 20$/month/viewer.
This is also NCSoft, which is a factor you're leaving out. This company has been willing to piss off their userbase time and again, and doesn't care if they lose even 80% of their bottom line. I'd be surpris
Honestly? (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Not a single one. In fact, I would (and do) take time, effort and money to configure my computer to specifically exclude such wastes of my paid-for bandwidth.
I have at least three spam filters (ISP, home mail server, POP client) on my email.
I have ISP and personal spam filters on my Usenet feed.
I have multiple regex blocks applicable to my browsers, 99% targetted at in-page advertising.
And hey, my bandwidth use has dropped into a cheaper bracket. So not only am I unperturbed by advertisements for crap on the other side of the world, I save money.
To advertisers: I already follow fifty-seven news feeds, including multiple ones about new products in areas of personal interest. If I'm not buying your product, it's because either I don't want it, or I don't consider the product list of your particular industry niche to be worth my time. If I ever want to buy something in that niche, I will go do research on it at that time.
And guess what - if there's an entire product niche that I don't know about, and have never even heard a whisper or hint about from family, friends or blogs, there's a fairly good chance that I don't freakin' need any product in that niche.
If and when I get or build a PVR-alike, it will be set to delete or block ads. I already don't watch live TV any more. I prefer DVD players which can skip the pre-main-menu crap and any trailers/ads, too. I don't buy newspapers, and if there was a way to get the free local ones on paper with the ads removed, I'd be looking into it.
"Pull" advertising I don't mind. If I go specifically looking for a product, then by all means try and sell it to me. But any form of "push" advertising irritates the hell out of me.
Ad Viewing Dailies (Score:2)
If you never want to do the quest, no problem, but there's a motivation of being paid in game money to do it.
Just make sure they're things that actually belong in the game world. "Ye Olde Spice" would probably be pushing it, but it would at least be better than seeing a giant microsoft banner next to the battle standards in thrall's throne room.
I'd be delighted to help (Score:3, Insightful)
Please please please do it right (Score:2)
Advertising ain't free, baby (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:From another forum (Score:4, Insightful)
YOU ALREADY HAVE TO PAY A FUCKING MONTHLY FEE!
And isn't that why the ads are optional?? To me this is kind of like DVDs that don't force you to watch previews from other movies but gives you the option to under the Extras menu. You paid for the DVD so it shouldn't interfere with your movie experience but I see no harm is just having an option. If the ads are targeted well enough they might even be beneficial to you as well. Those previews of other movies on the DVD have led me to find other movies I've liked.
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TBH CoX is already on a slippy slope with you have to pay for the extra content these days instead of updates that you are paying for (the point of a subscription game).
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I predict most of the ads will end up either from the userbase (ads for guilds) or spruiking NCSoft's other games. Neither of which will be very profitable.
If they make affordable ads available to the userbase, that would be of definite benefit to the game. Not quite user-generated content, but a step towards that. Cryptic and now NCSoft
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That being said, I'll see how this plays out. If you RTFA, the ads as shown really aren't obtrusive at all, and contribute to the feel of the game in the same way that the current fake ads do.
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******
Too bad you did. They plowed that money they earned (which was far more than they were expecting) to getting the Villain Epic Archetypes into the game a full issue earlier.
So their 'gouging marketing practice' actually helped the game measurably.
I can only hope they come out with more optional costume packs.
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This really is a win-win for NCSoft this time. Paragon City and the Rogue Isles will become 'more real' to me.