EU Fines Microsoft $1.3 Billion 699
jd writes "The EU has slammed Microsoft with a fine of €899 million ($1.337 billion at current exchange rates) for perpetuating violations of the 2004 antitrust ruling.The fine is the sum of daily fines running from June 21, 2006 to October 21, 2007. It is the first company ever to be fined for non-compliance. The amazing thing is that the EU now expects Microsoft to comply and 'close a dark chapter' in their history. The EU has opened new investigations into Microsoft's practices and gave a lukewarm response to the company's turning over yet another new leaf last week."
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Imagine the awesomeness if that were the desired effect.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Today it hit the lowest ever value against the Euro.
Abusive modding (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Informative)
And rather than fix it by raising interest rates, the Fed is doing the opposite, attempting to stave off a recession that's going to happen anyway. The sad thing is, they're only making things dramatically worse, because they're setting the U.S. economy on the road to hyperinflation. What good will it do trying to encourage consumption when the foreign goods they want us to consume keep getting more expensive?
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Euro an ECU are not the same thing, but when the second replaced the first one, its value was chosen to be initially the same. Look for the ECU [wikipedia.org] and Euro [wikipedia.org] wikipedia pages.
Also coins and notes are available only since 2002.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft Reduces its Offer for Yahoo! (Score:5, Funny)
Problem? Solved.
Re:Ha ha ha ha... (Score:5, Insightful)
Try finding a way to voice your concerns without resorting to hyperbole. We're all pretty smart here, you don't need to make a bigger case than you've actually got for us to 'get it.'
Re:Ha ha ha ha... (Score:5, Insightful)
"You know, there are real dictators in the world, who are truly evil, and are working to oppress their people." The removal of powers from elected parliaments, by devious method, to an unelected and undemocratic executive, Council of ministers, which holds its meetings in secret, unelected commissioners, and a very weak parliament that is bought and paid for by the latter.
Too bad that your prejudice has kept you from keeping track of recent developments. This criticism has been levelled at the EU for a long time and was to an extent justified, but guess what? They have actually done something about it. The European Parliament, which is directly elected and no longer as weak as it used to be, has received new powers with every treaty revision since 1992 and plays an integral role in EU law-making. Meetings of the Council of Ministers are not secret, as you can see on its website [europa.eu], which states: "All Council deliberations under the co-decision procedure are open to the public. The Council's first deliberations on legislative acts other than those adopted by co-decision are open to the public. The Council regularly holds public debates on important issues affecting the interests of the Union and its citizens, as well as policy debates on the Council's programmes." FYI, the co-decision procedure is the most commonly used procedure in EU legislation. Granted, institutional reform is slow, the EU still has work to do in terms of its accountability and communication with citizens, but that hardly makes it an evil oppressive dictatorship, which is the point that you were trying to make. Apart from Belarus, you will indeed not find oppressive dictatorships in Europe at this time, and the EU was established precisely to keep it this way, which brings me to your next point.
Yes, Europe has a fine tradition historically to be able to ignore history and repeat past mistakes yet again. Europe's ability for arrogance is only matched by its fantastic ability for creating evil, two world wars, and hundreds of millions of dead. How could I possibly not trust a European elite running out of control, and with a massive cavern where democratic due process should exist, but doesn't.
Please explain first who you mean by "Europe" and who exactly is being "arrogant". Is it Britain, Germany, Russia, France, Greece, Spain, Poland, Hungary, Sweden? Does every single one of this country have a "fine tradition to be able to ignore history and repeat past mistakes"? Last time I checked, Germans are still making up for the crimes of the nazis and not exactly preparing a second Holocaust. The Scandinavians no longer send out marauding bands of pirates to rob frightened people in coastal places. In Spain acknowledgment is slowly growing for the abuses and oppression of the Franco dictatorship, even on the political right. Italy does not seem eager to resurrect the Roman Empire. You may note that none of these examples has anything to do with the other, which illustrates that you can't generalise across an entire continent. I could even go on and argue that the one country which seemed unable to learn from history (notably European colonial history) in the last few years, with an elite running out of control causing millions of dead, does not lie in Europe, but I don't want to ignite another flamewar. In any case, as I mentioned before, the EU was established to prevent repetition of the mistakes of the past. It has been rather successful at that, considering that France and Germany are unlikely to go to war with each other at any point in the near future. It obviously does not have a perfect record, as was shown in the fall of Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Still, I fail to see how you can see the current European elite as being "out of control" or suggest that it will cause millions of people to die any time soon.
This same EU that's failed 13 years of account audits?
What does failing 13
Re:Ha ha ha ha... (Score:5, Insightful)
The EU is not an evil government and Microsoft is not a defenseless do-gooder. This is not the first time MS has been in trouble because of its business practices, althought in the US, since Bush came to power, they've sure enjoyed a nice ride over there, haven't they?
And what if not? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Informative)
And they'll keep doing it for as long as it takes.
Re:And what if not? (Score:4, Insightful)
I know it's an alien concept to American's, what with us Eurpeens being commies and all that and American firms usually being allowed to do what they want as long as they grease a few palms but what usually happens is:
1. A law is enacted
2. A firm ignores it.
3. They get fined
4. They pay the fine.
In the UK last week a few multi million pound fines got dished out to various big companies (this was from watchdogs rather than the EU though) and it's pretty much a given they'll pay up.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A more interesting concept would be to have a major portion of the fines go to Microsoft's competetors. It was they who were harmed by Microsoft's actions. Just think how a few hundred million would benefit FOSS projects in E
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No, that's just a scare tactic companies advance to get the public on their side. If it were true, companies wouldn't put up a legal fight to resist fines. The cost of production (including fines) isn't directly related to the retail price. Their price was already whatever they thought would maximi
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Insightful)
So lets apply this to Microsoft and then the free market in general. In this case Microsoft will have to pay lots of money to the EU. If they attempt to pass this cost on to consumers, it will strengthen OS X, Linux, Solaris, etc as alternatives to Windows. This means that in the case of Microsoft monopolizing the market, the EU fine can accomplish its task of lessening Microsoft's stake in the market if it is large enough. But if they have full control of the market, well that's why governments reserve the right to break companies up. If a fine would not be sufficient to punish a company, they could be split into smaller companies that would have to compete against each other.
So in the end, it isn't necessary to give the fines to Microsoft's competitors as you propose. Simply the act of fining Microsoft should be enough to help its competitors out.
Re:And what if not? (Score:4, Informative)
The fines will just keep increasing until they can't afford not to comply. And if they don't pay, bank accounts will be frozen etc etc. If that doesn't do it, the company will eventually be declared bankrupt and their assets will be sold to the highest bidders.
In contrast to what the MS fanboys say about the subject, they will not get away with non compliance as they did in the US.
EU politicians *cannot* be bought and they will not be scared by threats of MS leaving Europe. Not that I believe MS would make such a threat, which would be extremely stupid and would make all of their customers run.
I strongly believe that MS will just pay the fines and start complying and everyone will just be happy in the end.
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Interesting)
What Europe doesn't have is the legal "corruption" of corporations financing politicians campaigns' in exchange for favours - which is what grandparent was alluding to I think, and the primary reason Microsoft doesn't have the sort of influence it does in the US.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A ban would be a first as well but I think they'll just keep on doubling the fine every year...
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Interesting)
If I built soapbox racers in my garage at home and branded them BMW, then someone lost a head in a collision in my not-quite-safe car, don't you think that BMW would be less than thrilled?
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Funny)
You were shooting for +5 funny, right?
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And what if not? (Score:5, Interesting)
This judgement seems pretty final (MS has been showing contempt for the court for years) so, to answer the question, I'm guessing if MS don't pay up now, the EC will just freeze their EU bank accounts, and rumour has it that Microsoft keeps most of its money in Ireland as a tax dodge. I guess they could raid their offices and take away their furniture (or what's left since Ballmer's last European trip) too, but that would be messy and not too cost effective—I'm sure MS has billions in the bank.
Apparently linux is the new kid on the block (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apparently linux is the new kid on the block (Score:5, Funny)
hmm, will it be Illegal for MS to screw Linux?
Even as an MS fan, good... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I'd like to see the EU start to use the same stick on large companies that also feel that they are above the law.
Re:Even as an MS fan, good... (Score:5, Informative)
They do again and again. It's mostly, but not always price fixing. Other examples include Volkswagen that threatened their Italian dealers to pull the dealership when they sold to customers not living in Italy.
Fines are usually very hefty and companies usually comply. Micropsoft risks to fall really flat on their face if they try their usual stints here.
Re:Even as an MS fan, good... (Score:5, Informative)
Lift cartel: http://www.eubusiness.com/Competition/lifts-cartel-eu.33 [eubusiness.com]
Zippers: http://www.eubusiness.com/Competition/1190197926.91/ [eubusiness.com]
Dutch brewers: http://www.eubusiness.com/Competition/beer-cartel.09/ [eubusiness.com]
All hundred million dollar fines or more...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:MS can't win (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, the EU doles out fines to any companies who disobey European laws. Microsoft broke the law they got fined, they ignored the findings/requirements of the remedy they got fined again. There isn't any evil European persecution of an American company going on here. Just a company being fined for breaking the law.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A think the EU requires ALL operating system manufacturers to stop bundling different products into their OS. - Oh, wait ... WHAT other operating system manufacturers are we talking about? There is only Microsoft on the scene. Looks like monopoly to me...
I know it's fun to bash Microsoft, but consider that the ethical equivalent of what is being expected of Microsoft here would be compelling Linux vendors to ship only the kernel by default, and provide extensible mechanisms for anyone (including closed source, commercial vendors) to supply their own software to be used with such systems on the same basis as any preferences the vendor may have. The only difference is that at present, Microsoft is deemed to have a monopoly in the OS market.
Frankly, I thin
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
1.3 billion ~= nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
It just like EU told MS that they can continue infringe on laws as long as they give them about 10% of their benefits.
If EU wants MS to comply fast, they just have to make a ban on MS products in Europe, so that selling MS products would be considered illegal and fined enough.
Re:1.3 billion ~= nothing, not to stock holders (Score:5, Interesting)
MS's stock price is down and going lower. MS's cash equivalents on hand have drop from a high of over $50 billion to near $20 billion. MS is plowing billions of dollars a year into product areas such as the X box and their online business that are losing billions of dollars every year. Having to pay a fine of $1.3 billion costs them about 7% of their cash on hand. That is $1.3 dollars that they can't spend on developing new markets, it is #1.3 billion they can't ever hope to use to create stock holder value. This is a big enough fine to cause MS's board of directors and MS's executives to be sued by the stock holders and removed from their offices.
This kind of a fine, especially if it is followed up by stock holder suits can lead to a drop in the stock price that will cost Gates and crew billions of dollars off of their personal net value, force to company to pay the stock holders an equivalent amount of money, and force major changes in the board of directors.
This fine is a big deal.
Microsoft may well be heading into a perfect storm of legal shit.
And, do not forget that the only reason they got a slap on the wrist in the US is because MS spent lots of money on the Bushies and their corporate dogs. The Bushies and the whole neocon (neofascist) crew are not going to be in office in January 2009. The political storm sweeping the US right now is like nothing I have ever seen before. And I lived through most of the 1950s and 1960s.
MS is in trouble.
Oh... for those with no perspective, this is a story that is going to play out over the next 10 years, not the next 10 months.
Stonewolf
Guess the magically acceptable rate! (Score:3, Interesting)
EU: Lower
MS: 2.98%?
EU: Lower
MS: 0.5%?
EU: Lower
MS: 0.4%?
EU: BZZT! Too late, we are going to fine you a Billion $s.
Did you see that? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm absolutely stunned that someone, some government, finally got up the nuts to face off with the Monopoly. Took 10 years to get done, but FINALLY!! Think we'll see some big changes at Microsoft soon? Watch carefully. The fireworks are about to start.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps this will awaken people to the fact that in modern society nobody is above - or below - the law.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Essentially we have a pan-government organization that is demanding one billion dollars to continue to do sale in its realm. This money is not earmarked for social programs or anything that would benefit humanity, but more for bureaucrats.
The principled thing to do is to say "Your products cannot be sold here for 5 years. Be gone." Instead the EU just took the money. I dont see how the EU is better than MS. They are both attempting to m
Revenue, not profit (Score:3, Insightful)
This fine is going to have be paid in cold hard cash. Not vouchers, not rebates. CASH.
That doesn't hurt MS revenue at all offcourse. Their revenue will remain the same, what this will hurt is their profit. 900 million euro's down the drain with no way to write it off hurts.
You also got to remember that this is just the total so far, this isn't a speeding ticket, the amount will go up and up as long as MS doesn't comply.
There are also other problems. The US is going to look a bit silly now with its own we
It would be interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would be very interested to see what would happen if a tech giant decided to play hardball with a government. After all, the Microsoft decision makers that count would be beyond the reach of the European authorities in terms of arrest and imprisonment.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:4, Interesting)
It means that the EU can decided to confiscate any and all Microsoft property and Microsoft can do fuck all about it. It means that they can simply use those Server 2008 licences, and Microsoft can do fuck all about it.
If the EU wanted, they could drop Microsoft and develop an OS based around X/GNU/Linux, and screw Microsoft. You have to remember that until this point the EU has played by the rules of the game. But in the EU, the EU writes the rules, and they can change them as and when they like.
If Microsoft tried to play hard-ball with the EU, they would lose.
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
If MS was to try and pull that, we'd contract with Red Hat, Novell, somebody, and be up and running before the licenses expired. There's only a few apps that are Windows only that don't have linux equivalents; if someone was to throw a few million at it they'd be ported to linux in no time, even if it meant running with wine in the interim.
Try a stunt like that with a real government that can throw billions at the problem, and MS would find itself in the freezer. Remember, governments can pass laws; they can easily pass a law suspending copyright until they get it sorted out.
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh - and those licenses, we don't need them: you copyrights are void.
Sorry, can't do that (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
But...
I had the misfortune to have to do business with MS in the '90s before the first judgment came down against them in the US. They told us privately that if the US government tried to break them up they would just move across the border to Canada or just buy a small country, preferably an island, and move the whole company out of the US. They also threatened, privately, to just stop selling Windows and technical support to the US government.
I was working for a baby bell at the time and so we were able to explain to them what it is like for a company to operate for 60 years under judicial supervision. Not nice. In the US a federal court judge can throw the entire executive staff of a company into prison for as long as he likes if they pull the kind of thing you suggest MS pull. They can appoint people to run the company until such time as it is in full compliance with court orders. And, a federal judge can send US marshals anywhere in the world to capture these people. (Yes, it may be kidnapping in the country where they reside... but the judge can still do it), and a Federal Judge can request that the President use military force to capture some one. So yeah, they can send in the Marines... Ok, that last bit is very unlikely to happen, but it could.
I do not know what the EU can do against a company that flaunts its laws. But, I am sure that at least some of the member states have laws similar to those is the US.
Just an example... I once worked for a fellow who was indicted for murder in the state of Illinois. He lived in the state of Utah and Utah declined to extradite him. He now is unable to leave the state of Utah. If he sets foot out side of Utah he can be arrested and most likely will be extradited to Illinois where he will be tried for murder. The same could happen to all the board of directors and all the executives of MS. They could be extradited to the EU to face criminal charges there, or if the US refuses to extradite them they could find that they can never safely leave the US again for fear of being extradited to the EU and spending a large part of the rest of their lives in jail.
No country can fail to react swiftly and harshly to any attack on the sovereignty and that is exactly what MS would be doing if they did what you described.
Stonewolf
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
MS would be very, very screwed if they would try to do anything like this. Let me put things into perspective:
The EU area has a GPD of $14.51 trillion, while MS has a revenue of around $51 billion, globally. The EU has the power of the police, government, military behind them which can seize MS's assets and if MS decides to pull out of EU they would leave billions in assets behind. If events reach that point, EU given the national security clauses in copyright conventions would simply suspend MS copyright in Europe while Europe moves to Linux/BSD/Solaris at a hugely accelerated pace. Given that the EU is the largest economy block in the world, everyone else would be forced to use those open technologies and MS would find itself with a pretty minimal market share in a few years.
Even Microsoft isn't this stupid to make a move anything like this.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There is that point, and then there is the aftermath. A hurricane can kill thousands. The following unsanitary conditions can kill millions.
In the same way, M$ pulls out of EU, with severe scars and loss of sales. That's the hurricane.
The EU turns to open standards. All multi-nationals have to turn to open standards in lockstep (Re: ROHS -
1.337 billion! (Score:4, Funny)
It's clear evidence the EU lawyers are leet and MS is suxxxorz who got pwned. I can see the court transcript:
EU Lawyers: We get signal
MS Lawyers: What!
EU Lawyers: Main screen turn on
MS Lawyers: It's you!!
EU Lawyers: How are you gentlemen!!
EU Lawyers: All your base are belong to us!!
MS Lawyers:
EU Lawyers: 1.337 billion Profit!
Now that's great justice!
What exactly do the EU want from Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
That's 984 Billion in American rupees (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
7.6% (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:7.6% (Score:5, Insightful)
That's how it works in the EU, you don't get to continue doing what you were fined for after you pay your fine! (Otherwise people would be speeding all the time, and when stopped would say, "I already paid my fine", and would get let off!)
I think it works that way in the USA too, but don't quote me on that.
Neelie Kroes (Score:5, Interesting)
Because the European Union is a progressive liberal democracy, she is allowed to have more balls than her US opposite number.
Microsoft needs to get a move on. The fine is in Euros, and if the Euro continues to appreciate against the dollar when they eventually pay it may bankrupt them. (this is a joke. It is a feeble joke but a joke nonetheless.)
Incidentally, and this is quite true, one of the lawyers for Microsoft summarised their case like this: "We are Microsoft. We are the good guys. So what we want to do is right." Now compare that with HP, who have people based in Europe who talk to the Commission and say, in effect "We would like to do so-and-so. Is that all right?". Strangely, you don't hear about massive fines for HP over their dominance of the office printer market.
It has been clear to me for a number of years that Microsoft simply needs to grow up as a company, like small children who, if their parents do a half decent job, learn to get what they want by politeness and cooperation, not by kicking, screaming and stealing toys. But, in order to change, they have to recognise the need for change. I suspect that their technical people are well aware of this, but some of the management is still in "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mode. The MS XML saga is pretty conclusive evidence of this. I bet there are project managers in ISO who by now will do their best to sabotage any Microsoft standards project, simply because they have been so pissed off by them.
Microsoft's response (Score:3, Funny)
If successful, it's believed that Ballmer's plan is to rename the European Union to "Microsoft EU Professional".
In a separate communication, Ballmer told EU officials that Microsoft would send them free MSDN DVDs if they withdraw the fine. "If you choose not to accept our offer," wrote Ballmer, "we reserve the right to pursue all necessary steps to ensure that software customers in Europe are provided with the opportunity to realize the value inherent in our monopoly."
The amazing thing is (Score:3, Insightful)
How can this be considered *amazing*?
It's the only option they have. They've played their cards and lost, now is the time to just pay the fine, comply with the ruling and move on.
Tab (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Funny)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Interesting)
The only punishments that would hurt Microsoft have been illegal since the Dark Ages.
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Funny)
You mean waterboarding?
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the most appropriate punishment because it is MS's anti-competitive behavior that would ultimately lead to them being barred from competing in the marketplace. It's not like people wouldn't be able to buy Macs or install Linux for their OS or use Open office/other alternatives for productivity.
Heck it might actually do the industry some good, nothing breeds innovation like necessity.
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:4, Insightful)
Office would be slightly less of an issue for the folks that just use Word and Excel, as they could probably get used to OpenOffice or similar. Not sure if there's an alternative for Microsoft Project and some of the other lesser used applications. There are also plenty of folks here using XML based workflows in Infopath/Sharepoint for business process type stuff, which would probably require a lot of effort to rework with non-MS products.
Even if there are alternatives out there for all of these Microsoft products, the cost to industry of migrating would likely be huge if the sale of Microsoft products (soft licences for the most part I guess) were banned. It wouldn't have to happen immediately, as I imagine the likes of Dell etc. have got a stockpile of Microsoft licences, and many businesses would be on corporate licences that wouldn't run out straight away, but most businesses, especially in the SMB space, wouldn't have a clue where to start.
True (Score:5, Insightful)
The same thing is happening here, complying would cost more than the fine. We need some equivalent of "wheel clamping" for Microsoft.
I wouldn't count on it happening though, I can see states getting used to a regular "microsoft fine" dividend. They will probably have a routine of Microsoft saying it will clean up, not doing so and being fined again.
Re:True (Score:5, Funny)
How about bolting the chairs to the floor?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not get MS to debundle notepad because it competes with UltraEdit-32? Because UltraEdit-32 is such an improvement that some people will pay fo
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Insightful)
In essence, Microsoft is gaming the system, breaking the free market.
There's a point of view that what Microsoft is doing is completely rational, and that the problem isn't what MS is doing, but that their competitors *don't* do those things, and instead naively try to compete on technical quality and consumer appeal. While I disagree with this point of view, there's one aspect I can agree with, which is that MS is acting rationally. What the EU is doing (or should be doing) is imposing such extreme restrictions and/or fines on MS that it is no longer rational for them to abuse their position the way they do.
That's why the answer to:
Re:1.3 billion (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Informative)
I also don't understand why the size of the fine "clearly" indicates that people are lining their pockets. This is not the largest fine ever issued. (ExxonMobil was fined $5 Billion for Exxon Valdez, later halved, but so far not paid.)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:1.3 billion (Score:4, Insightful)
First, the US Department of Justice decided Microsoft was a monopoly, so the European Union could very well take this for granted (the supervision for Microsoft as an monopoly is still active, with a recent two years added span).
Second, while the EU might fund Airbus, Boeing is an equal competitor to Airbus (at about equal size). Microsoft doesn't have competition of similar size - not even in a tenth of their size.
If an european citizen would be fined for parking in New York, those money would go toward reducing the taxes paid by the US citizens, increasing their capacity to compete against the Europeans.
I think the americans lost the stomach for competing against Microsoft in its main area of expertise: Novell Netware is just a shadow of its former past (and Windows networks dethroned it), I haven't heard lately news about Word Perfect (once leader of the word processing world), Netscape (once leader of web browser world), let's not even talk about Winsock Trumpet. I even remember a Corel Linux (rumours say Microsoft paid them out of the idea).
Microsoft's idea of "laissez faire" competition is to be alone in the world, and had taken steps for this (why buy now OS/2 when you can wait one year for our new Windows Chicago). For better or worse, OS/2 - once a competitor of Windows - is out of the marketplace for good.
Re:1.3 billion (Score:5, Informative)
From the EU website:
The penalty payment is paid into the EU Budget. It does not increase the budget, but reduces the contribution from Member States and so from taxpayers.
So in deference to us paying the Microsoft tax Microsoft is paying (a small part of) EU tax, brilliant
Cynicism makes you cool (Score:4, Insightful)
You make absolutely no case here. Your argument boils down to, "Yeah, well, you can't prove they aren't corrupt, so they must be, it's just human nature." I'd like to formally enter my own hypothesis here, which is that it isn't human nature to be corrupt. Just yours. You simply excuse your own corruption by thinking that everyone else does it, too, and you just have to be that way so all the corrupt douchebags of the world can't take advantage of you. As a side hypothesis, I posit that your cynicism is simply a defense mechanism stemming from deep seated insecurities.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Also as was pointed out above: the value of the Dollar in regards to the Euro changes (at least) on a daily basis. So there's no single 'proper' dollar value for the fee, they just have to pay the 899m Euros.
Re:at current exchange rate (Score:5, Interesting)
Last week one of their managers said in an interview that the cost of the EU-required documentation had wiped out most income of the past year.
And now the EU does not accept this documentation
Or more accurate, does not accept the price attached to it.
the EU says what are your RIGHTS in the EU (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interoperability of Office? (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem unclear on the concept of "rights". A "right" is something that a government has decided you may do. This government has decided that they do not have this "right". You can't wave a magic BS stick in the air and make it so that they do. They don't have the right because the EU government bloody well says they don't, and that's all there is to it.
Natural rights and government-granted rights (Score:3, Insightful)
There have been several responses to your post basically all saying the same thing: that you are wrong because rights are not granted by the government.
All of the negative responses to your post have utterly failed to distinguish between natural rights, or inalienable rights, or whatever you want to call them (perhaps some would even prefer "God-granted" rights; also, there are technical distinctions between the various names, but the sense is that you have them by default, they are not given to you), and
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I love it when people say things like that, it gives me a good chuckle. You do know it's completely and utterly meaningless, yes? Rights mean exactly fuck all if they're not backed up by men with guns. The governments have the most guns, so they're the only ones who can, in any practical sense at all, grant rights.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No it isn't: it's blatant anti-competitive behaviour.
If you have a large CD collection, you aren't stuck to one make of CD player. You can buy a Philips or a Sony or a Panasonic or a Daewoo or any number of no-name brands. Your investment in CDs is protected by there being more than one manufacturer of CD players. They all take the same discs, they all
Re:Interoperability of Office? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unfair? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unfair? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is Apple a convicted monopolist ?
No, they're not are they but Microsoft is and that is what makes the situations different.
Re:Unfair? (Score:5, Informative)
"You are not allowed to use a monopoly in one area to try and leverage an advantage in another area."
That is why different rules apply to Apple and various X/GNU/Linux distributors as apply to Microsoft.
Microsoft has an effective monopoly in the desktop OS market, and by bundling Windows Media Player (and MSIE for that matter...), they are creating a situation where people might use it to create WMP files (especially as that is the default).
You might say that it isn't a big deal if people rip CDs to WMP, but then they want to play them on a portable media player, they have to make sure that it plays them. The company that makes the media player is giving a kick-back (patent licencing?) to Microsoft, and thus Microsoft is leveraging its monopoly in the desktop OS to give it an advantage in another market.
That is just one example of why they shouldn't be allowed to do it, but there are plenty of others.
Re:Unfair? (Score:5, Informative)
Because MSFT dragged their feet in complying they were fined some 2 million euros a day. This is that fine. this has nothing to do with windows media player as MSFT already took care of that part by releasing a media player free version of windows.
Also as a side effect this is 1.3 billion less dollars that MSFT will have to buy Yahoo with. Some 6% of the cash MSFT has on hand.
I just hope you work for Microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You're right (Score:4, Insightful)
"Well we were fined for breaking the law and rather than stop breaking the law and paying the fine we decided to get revenge by flushing trillions of dollars worth of sales down the toilet and antagonise nearly all of what would have been a huge and profitable market for us."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)