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Groklaw Examines Microsoft's Promises 125

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Groklaw has examined that 'new leaf' Microsoft turned the other day. PJ has a lengthy analysis of Microsoft's latest promises. To make a long story short, the promises are more of the same stuff and don't help anyone but Microsoft. They only protect 'noncommercial' development and are set up to create a patented standards toll road so that Microsoft can charge competitors to compete. As PJ puts it, 'This is a promise to remain incompatible with the GPL, as far as I can make out.'"
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Groklaw Examines Microsoft's Promises

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22, 2008 @07:38PM (#22522988)
    Shoot to kill!
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Derek Loev ( 1050412 )
      Statements like

      To make a long story short, the promises are more of the same stuff and don't help anyone but Microsoft.
      make me not want to even come to RTFS anymore.
      In my opinion, there are very few times when a company's main goal isn't to help themselves.
      • by MMC Monster ( 602931 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:00PM (#22523140)
        The promise is to not litigate if you use their patents/documents for non-commercial applications.

        The problem is that GPL software cannot have this limitation.
        • by Zeinfeld ( 263942 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:30PM (#22523324) Homepage
          Can we have equal time for complaints about Apple's use of patented power connectors?

          How about Sun's legal threats against people who innovate on top of Java in unauthorized fashion?

          Is there any party Microsoft has made a patent sharing agreement with to date that is not a net recipient?

          Microsoft to Novell: "Take this money or we will sue you"

          Novell to Microsoft: "Curse your threats, we surrender!"

          Slashdot to Novell: "Thhhrrrruuuppppp!!!!!"

          • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

            patented power connectors
            There is, like, this substantial difference between hardware and software: the "hard" in hardware refers to the fact that it is substance, whereas the software is pure information.
            • no, not really You would never be allowed to steal one of the power connectors themselves, but the design has also been protected, and the design is also just information.
              • no, not really
                You would never be allowed to steal one of the power connectors themselves, but the design has also been protected, and the design is also just information.
                Shhh.

                "Software is special, and completely like any other form of Intellectual Property. See, it's like a patent, that you have to defend it or it's 'abandonware', but it's like copyright, in that it lasts forever and ever and ever."

                No, really. I mean it. Stop laughing.
          • by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @01:16AM (#22524856)

            Can we have equal time for complaints about Apple's use of patented power connectors?

            Sure, just as soon as Apple is declared to have a monopoly on portable, digital music players, which is still an undecided matter by the courts. Also, didn't I read somewhere that Apple just licensed the use of an existing variant of USB from JAE? While it is patented, I don't think it is Apple's patent, so that is a bit different.

            How about Sun's legal threats against people who innovate on top of Java in unauthorized fashion?

            Why? What do they have a monopoly on?

            Is there any party Microsoft has made a patent sharing agreement with to date that is not a net recipient?

            I don't think you understand the issue most people have with Microsoft. It isn't that they don't license their patents. It is that they use proprietary technologies to disadvantage potential competitors, and that disadvantage is only possible because of their monopolies (which is illegal and undermines the capitalist free market).

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Patented power connectors are an ugly practice that is clearly meant to prevent compatability.

            Sun's legal threats are over 'innovations' that reduce the net value of Java by damaging it's interoperability.

        • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

          So... basically they've promised not to litigate in cases where they probably wouldn't have bothered to litigate anyway. I suppose in return they're hoping to get good will and increased success rates for the spurious litigation they do engage in?
        • Not just GPL. Free and open source software, as defined by the FSF and OSI respectively, BY DEFINITION cannot have this restriction.
        • MMC Monster: "The promise is to not litigate if you use their patents/documents for non-commercial applications." So Microsoft promise not to sue people who don't have any money anyway. Woohoo!!!!! But it does seem to allow people to write free (as in beer) software and give it away. "How can it be commercial software? I'm giving it away."
          • If a developer wrote a piece of software that was popular and wanted to receive money for his effort, he could sell the software to Microsoft and they could take it commercial without fearing that they would litigate with themselves over the patents used by the product in question. It makes non-commercial developers unpaid Microsoft employees in that if the product has value, Microsoft has the only right to pursue commercialization. I suppose someone else could commercialize but they would need to purchase
            • What you say makes sense. I suppose a developer could give the software away and then sell services around it. That is one popular way of making a living in the open source world. If Microsoft them wanted to commercialise the software, presumably thye would have to negotiate with the developer for the NON-Microsoft aspects of the functionality.....assuming they aren't GPL'd anyway. One point I'm not clear on: Could you isolate and separate the GPL parts and the Microsoft parts so there was no confusion?
        • A "non commercial only" restriction is not just incompatable with the GPL. It is incompatable with the BSD license. It is incompatable with public domain. It is even incompatable with Microsoft's own osf-approved licenses!
      • by filbranden ( 1168407 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:55PM (#22523520)

        In my opinion, there are very few times when a company's main goal isn't to help themselves.

        The problem is not Microsoft wanting to profit and not wanting to help their competitors. The problem is they doing that while doing a big announcement that they want to help and interoperate, which is exactly what they did.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 )

        In my opinion, there are very few times when a company's main goal isn't to help themselves.
        Oddly enough, IBM is able to contribute to the general IT community without the same kinds of shennanigans Microsoft is trying to pull here. And IBM is probably doing it because it helps themselves.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by zonker ( 1158 )
      "It's a cookbook!"
    • by jmb-d ( 322230 )
      [we] canna change the laws o' physics!
  • by Reality Master 201 ( 578873 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @07:49PM (#22523066) Journal
    It's what we in the biz call "a load of bullshit," and probably comes from the legal department (by way of marketing), who're possibly worried that the EU might do something to them.
    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by megaditto ( 982598 )
      Well, I too am worried that EU (or our next Democrat president) will try to do something to "fix" things.

      I agree it would be better for me as a consumer if Microsoft went all-open, but what right do I have to force them to do it? If I don't like it, I don't buy from them. What I shouldn't do is try to send in the Feds or other jackbooted thugs to take them down.

      Look people, that's how our current capitalist/free market system works: each company has responsibility to its shareholders to maximize the busines
      • by filbranden ( 1168407 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @09:13PM (#22523628)

        I agree it would be better for me as a consumer if Microsoft went all-open, but what right do I have to force them to do it?

        You forget that Microsoft is a convicted monopolist and that they use dirty tactics against their competitors.

        that's how our current capitalist/free market system works

        And that's exactly one of the problems of the capitalist and free market system (I'm not trolling here! No economic system is perfect and others failed miserably much quicker than capitalism, but that's not my point). The problem here is that once a company becomes a monopoly, it has too much power in its hands. It has, for example, power enough to extinguish small competitors by artificially lowering prices until the competitor dies and then, with no one to compete, rise prices again.

        Microsoft is a good example of a company that takes profit from the "loopholes" of capitalism. By using lock in to their proprietary formats and bundling IE and WMP in the OS, they've achieved to keep for a long time more than 90% of market share on a wide range of products, to force people to upgrade and pay them more money, and all that without innovating (if you really look at their products, you'll see that in the last 5 years they didn't introduce any new feature worth buying, mostly cosmetic changes only). All that just using dirty tactics by making sure no one could create programs compatible or interoperatable with theirs.

        I do believe in a free market, but this market we have with Microsoft is anything but free. And I do think governments have the responsability to level the playing field here.

        Why you think Microsoft ownes it to any of you to give away their computer code is beyond me.

        The biggest issue here is why did we get into this situation. If Microsoft had used and promoted open standards since the begining, they wouldn't be in this situation today. They would have to compete in quality of their products, not based on the legacy that only they can access. Since they chose to do everything they could to avoid interoperability at all costs, being forced to do that now is the least I expect.

        • No economic system is perfect and others failed miserably much quicker than capitalism ...

          Actually, to nitpick, capitalism failed spectacularly [wikipedia.org] a while back, at least once, being one of the first methods to fail during the 1900's. Yet it gets propped up again and again. The last centuries have shown us that no single model works. However, there is strong evidence to show that the best pieces of several models can be combined and used together as a sort of Middle Path.

          Microsoft is a good example of a company that takes profit from the "loopholes" of capitalism.

          Be that as it may, no system can do well with the kind of abuse the MSFT movement is dishing out. The economic damage c

      • what right do I have to force them to do it?

        What right do Microsoft have to force me to pay for their product?

        It's called the rule of law, and at the moment it's being enforced selectively. I would be arrested by jackbooted thugs if I took Microsoft products without paying, and would be forced to return the products.

        Microsoft is illegally using its monopoly position to extort billions from me and other customers, and nobody's stopping the theft, nobody's making them return their ill-gotten gains.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          It's called the rule of law, and at the moment it's being enforced selectively. I would be arrested by jackbooted thugs if I took Microsoft products without paying, and would be forced to return the products.

          Actually, you would find that you wouldn't be arrested by jackbooted thugs for doing so. Many people pirate Microsoft products without any repercussions at all.

          Now, in a world of total enforcement, Microsoft would be split up. And we would all be in jail for being software pirates.

          Well, not all of us
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by ozmanjusri ( 601766 )
            And I am not that keen on living in a world of 'total enforcement'.

            Principles of Justice

            Article 1: Selective Prosecution.
            Selective Prosecution is Persecution! The most damnable of all violations of Justice! It destroys both parties, the ones selected to be punished, to the uttermost farthing, and are never forgiven and those who are immune from penalties, because of some assumed position of nobility or immunity.

            Avoiding detection is not the same as avoiding prosecution.

          • by rbanffy ( 584143 )
            "Actually, you would find that you wouldn't be arrested by jackbooted thugs for doing so. Many people pirate Microsoft products without any repercussions at all."

            Small-scale piracy (when you copy someone's disk or download and burn an image) is tolerated by MS because these effectively "free as in beer" copies compete with cheaper software alternatives that may or may not be free (as in beer). They don't compete with Microsoft's product line because they have nothing in this price range and, as a bonus, the
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        And for the most part I agree with you. The problem is that a company should be playing by the same rules that were already laid out and punished severely when they break them. The anti-trust lawsuits amounted to more of a slap on the wrist than any actual punishment. When a company engages in the exact same practices that got them into trouble to begin with, then the punishment was not sufficient. And using economic might (do it our way for better pricing or else you're just cut off) isn't a free marke
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Foople ( 1069410 )
        The phrase "free market" has been corrupted by doublespeak [wikipedia.org]. When Adam Smith wrote about the free market, he meant the market should be free. Today's corrupted meaning is that people within the market should be free. The two meanings are contradictory.
        • by Raenex ( 947668 )
          I can't figure out what you are trying to say. What do you mean for "the market should be free" vs "people within the market"?
      • corporations (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "each company has responsibility to its shareholders to maximize the business and profits."..they ALSO have a duty to be of the public good and benefit and not be scumtards. They are GRANTED a license, an incorporation charter, based on all of the above, and if they violate that trust, the charter should be yanked, and in MS case, they passed that line years ago. You can "make shareholders more money" by doing any number of illegal or bogus things, doesn't mean it is right, correct or even marginally legal.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by rohan972 ( 880586 )
        Look people, that's how our current capitalist/free market system works: each company has responsibility to its shareholders to maximize the business and profits. Why you think Microsoft ownes it to any of you to give away their computer code is beyond me.

        First, since business models based on the charging per item for copyright and/or patented software depends entirely on government intervention it is nonsense to call it a free market. It is a market created by the government, on behalf of the people, fo
      • Why you think Microsoft ownes it to any of you to give away their computer code is beyond me.

        If Microsoft gives out their programs (ie, sells. Then the customer is indeed owed something), they should let it be reverse engineered & reimplemented. The key issue (as far as, eg, the FSF seems to be concerned) is that at the moment it is legally impossible, even though it is technically possible. Redhat & co. have demonstrated an ability to make quite reasonable profits, so there is no reason for the

  • To make a long story short, the promises are more of the same stuff
    The same stuff being large piles of equine feces? When they try to spin this, remember the old definition of an excuse: it's nothing more than a reason wrapped up in a lie.
  • Darn it! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:02PM (#22523162)
    You mean to say I printed all these "Sorry I doubted you Microsoft"-T-shirts FOR NOTHING?
  • by jbrax ( 315669 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:06PM (#22523190) Homepage
    Excerpt from a post by lawyer Andrew Updegrove, an open-standards advocate who tracks the issue on his Standards Blog [consortiuminfo.org]:

    I expect that it is no coincidence that this announcement comes just two business days (and only one, for most of the world) before the Ballot Resolution Meeting convenes in Geneva next Monday. This will effectively give those participating in the discussions of Microsoft's OOXML document format no opportunity to fully understand what Microsoft has actually promised to do, while reaping the maximum public relations benefit.
  • by timmarhy ( 659436 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:20PM (#22523262)
    I don't get how MS is so afraid of the GPL.

    it only requires you provide the source code when you distribute your program. It doesn't mean you have to not charge for software or that software even be free. MS lose nothing if they say distributed win XP with source under the GPL, and it would certainly open up a whole new world of compatability for them that would result in tools that expand their market oppertunities.

    it would at the same time prevent competitors taking that code and distributing a product without making the sources available themselfs, which would allow contribution of said sources into MS's own products.

    • by Chandon Seldon ( 43083 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:39PM (#22523380) Homepage

      The GPL allows competition.

      Microsoft's entire business model is to exploit the monopolies granted by copyright and patent law.

    • Exactly, or at least opening the source to Windows 9X. About the only reason that I see MS being afraid of releasing its source is because its bad code. And I don't doubt it with the numerous bugs and security flaws. And I think that if MS releases XP or any other Window's source it will create doubts about MS's ability to code (which is already doubted) and to make good and fast code. This would make lots of since why Vista needs a really fast computer to make it run even really slow.
      • There is doubtless still a very large amount of 9x legacy code in the vista codebase for backwards compatibility reasons. If they were to open source the 9x series they would probably be giving away much more than they want to.
    • by Gutboy ( 587531 )
      You don't make the big bucks distributing GPL code. Microsoft makes the big bucks distributing their stuff. They don't want to get into supporting it (would you?), so they want to maintain their current business model.
    • by pavera ( 320634 )
      The problem with your argument is that MS would lose a lot if they distributed XP as GPL. Red Hat (or anyone else) could then compile that code, and distribute it again for free or for a minimal fee, completely undercutting MS's main business.
      • This is something i've considered. the GPL covers the source code but MS could still prevent redhat giving it away or selling it as windows, due to the trademark on the name. simply put, MS could provide sources for discontinued items like XP and allow other people to make rebuilds under the windows name ONLY if they pay a license fee to MS. This would only hurt MS in the event that their lastest windows version isn't worth upgrading to....

        I realise this doesn't prevent people just rebranding their own hom

        • This would only hurt MS in the event that their lastest windows version isn't worth upgrading to....

          It isn't.

          I realise this doesn't prevent people just rebranding their own home brew windows, but how is this worse then all the pirated copies out there now?

          The pirated copies are not sanctioned, have no support, could get you sued, won't auto-update, etc etc.

          A GPL'd version would be just as good as the real thing, maybe minus support, but most support is by third-parties like Dell anyhow -- and I'm sure D

          • I'm not saying it's going to happen either, but i just think there's no reason MS can't do it and still make a barrel of cash along the way.
            • I don't see a way they could do it and make more cash than they do now. Or even as much.
            • by Raenex ( 947668 )
              Isn't it obvious that Microsoft makes billions upon billions of dollars by getting their OS pre-installed with the cost built in to the price of the computer? Take off your GPL-sunglasses for a bit and see the real world. Nobody would pay an extra $80 or whatever the price is these days on a $200 computer if an identical version could be had for free.

              Pirates may hurt Microsoft, but clearly those billions come from somewhere.
        • by pavera ( 320634 )
          Still, RedHat could rebrand it then as whatever they want, they would eat MS's lunch.

          Especially given the nightmare that is Vista, MS would lose a huge amount of money by doing this. People don't care what the software is called, if it is RedHat Redmond Compatibility Pack, and it runs everyone's software the same, they'll be more than happy to save thousands of dollars on it by getting it from someone else.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rahvin112 ( 446269 )
      MS doesn't write all their own code, the license code all the time and they likely couldn't GPL windows even if they actually wanted to. The GPL is scary to MS because it eliminates any dollar value to the product, you don't make money selling GPL, you make money supporting GPL and Microsoft hasn't been in the support industry outside commercial sales for years and even their commercial support is only available with large site licenses and likely makes them very little.

      Windows and Office are the only two s
    • GPL'ing their code would be a huge risk for Microsoft.

      Conversely, there's nothing they'd gain that they actually would care about, as far as I can see.

      Basic business management says if something is a huge risk for no reward, you don't do it.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by JohnnyBGod ( 1088549 )

      As much as I like the concept of Free Software, you are dead wrong. MS would lose quite a bit of money if they released Windows under the GPL.

      While you are right that they could sell Windows under the GPL, you forget to mention that anyone who bought it and wanted to subsequently distribute it, could copy it and sell it or give it away, thus lowering the value of the software to 0. What Microsoft could then do, is to sell support, but I hear that they're not too good at that, although I've never had any c

    • Sure it'd be bad for them.

      They would no longer be able to alter APIs and file formats at whim without giving everybody else the same chance for compatibility/backcompat. They wouldn't be able to use undocumented, convoluted, encrypted, or otherwise secretive apis and transports to try and effect an interoperability lock-in, so you could use exchange with say, mysql, evaporating their monopoly (from which their profits are derived) Anybody could make anything which would interoperate with or run windows bin
  • by jbrax ( 315669 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:24PM (#22523280) Homepage
    Seems like European Comission has learned something about Microsoft's previous four announcements [europa.eu]. Excerpt:

    The Commission would welcome any move towards genuine interoperability. Nonetheless, the Commission notes that today's announcement follows at least four similar statements by Microsoft in the past on the importance of interoperability.

    ECIS's Thomas Vinje has also issued a statement [ecis.eu] that is worth reading.
  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @08:28PM (#22523312) Homepage
    "They [Microsoft's promises] only protect 'noncommercial' development and are set up to create a patented standards toll road so that Microsoft can charge competitors to compete."

    Someone could make a really, really scary horror movie: Bill Gates as software's "Dr. Death", killing an OS used by millions of people, wasting their time by releasing software that isn't finished, and generally being dishonest and sneaky and adversarial toward the whole world.

    Just when you thought that was as much ugliness as you could handle, there would be scenes of Microsoft Marketing robots spewing corporate-speak and not realizing that they are the undead.

    One of the biggest and most respected IT magazines is rejecting Windows Vista: Save Windows XP [infoworld.com]. Quote: "More than 75,000 people have signed InfoWorld's "Save XP" petition in the three weeks since it was launched - many with passionate, often emotional pleas to not be forced to make a change."
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by sumdumass ( 711423 )
      Thanks, Your horor movie idea remonded me of some things I though about way back when the GPLv3 was being discussed.

      I was claiming that MS was going to offer some patent infringment indemnification and do it in a way to halt GPLv3 projects because of the anti patent wording. The if you can't bla bla blah, you can't use the GPL. Now, I was thinking that this is a big ass hole that anyone could claim indemnification, associated with the acusition of software in some way, but not extend it in the way the GPLv3
    • by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @09:18PM (#22523660)
      More than 75,000 people have signed InfoWorld's "Save XP" petition in the three weeks since it was launched - many with passionate, often emotional pleas to not be forced to make a change."

      Nobody is forcing them to make a change. They can run windows xp for as long as they like. People out there are still running windows 95.

      Oh... you meant you want to force microsoft not to release a new edition while discontinuing their old ones? Tough shit. Might as well cry to ford that you don't want them to update their models every year. See how far you get with that.

      Or perhaps you mean, Infoworld thinks if Microsoft sees enough demand for continued XP support they'll continue to support it, and that's what this stunt is all about. Of course its a nice theory. They're a company after all. They aren't going to leave a big pile of money on the table.

      If MS thinks people WON'T buy Vista, and will migrate away from windows if they can't buy XP then they'll support XP.

      But they aren't really in that predicament at all. Not many of these so-called respected IT people are going to switch to linux or OSX if they can't buy XP, switching to linux doesn't get their activeX/iis/active directory/whatever infrastrucure going seamlessly without any retraining or re-implementation, etc. Its not that they don't want vista, its that they don't want to change at all.

      So they're fucked. They can bitch and throw a tantrum all they want, MS can move forward and they'll come kicking and screaming because they bought into an OS that they don't have any control over, and Vista is still the easiest upgrade path they have. They made their bed when they signed up for proprietary software. Microsoft has released how many versions of windows? And how many versions of DOS before that?? If they didn't think that sooner or later MS would drag them forward they haven't been paying attention.

      Apple users went through the same thing when they switched from OS9 to OSX and from PPC to intel... its just that apple isn't 90+ percent of the business desktop operating system market so "Infoworld" and IT people in general never got up in arms over it.

      OS9 -> OSX is a lot like XP to Vista... OSX ran like a DOG compared to OS9 on the same hardware, tons of incompatible software, missing drivers for tons of hardware, completely redone interface with a lot of controversial issues -- like the dock, unix and security added in... good thing OS9 was so different it had to be run completely virtualized because NOT a single OS9 program would have gotten off the ground in OSX. And then just a couple years later they switched to intel and OS9 was dead as a doornail, and couldn't even be virtualized.

      That is the price of progress and the nature of vender lockin. I feel sorry for end users when they get caught with their pants down during a transition... but IT people? They should fucking know better and should have seen this coming miles away and planned for it.
      • You said, and I quote: "Nobody is forcing them to make a change. They can run windows xp for as long as they like. People out there are still running windows 95."

        That is exactly Microsoft's idea, forcing a change, in my opinion.

        If a corporation needs to buy 1,000 new computers, they are placed in a terrible position. Will they buy Windows XP, a product that Bill Gates, software's Dr. Death, has declared is Mainstream Support Retired [microsoft.com] on 4/14/2009? If they do, they will be forced to pay extra when they
        • ... On the other hand, Windows XP became usable without hassles 3 years after its introduction, with the release of Service Pack 2...

          Your point about MS Vista is valid, but the perceptions about XP might be based on two quirks. One is that problems fade over time. After about 2½ - 3 years it seems that most people forget the bad things and remember only a rosy picture. I'll get back to that. The other quirk is that people quickly get used to a lower level of performance and adjust their expectations and behavior accordingly. Spam and lost e-mail are the best example, but XP is a lot less flexible in many ways than 2000 was.

          • I agree with what you said: "One is that problems fade over time. After about 2½ - 3 years it seems that most people forget the bad things and remember only a rosy picture. I'll get back to that. The other quirk is that people quickly get used to a lower level of performance and adjust their expectations and behavior accordingly."

            Let's talk on the telephone. My email address: MJennings.USA@ NOT_any_of_THISgmail DOT com
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  • by NullProg ( 70833 ) on Friday February 22, 2008 @09:25PM (#22523708) Homepage Journal
    The real story from Groklaw, How to Get Your Platform Accepted as a Standard - Microsoft Style http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071023002351958 [groklaw.net]

    I submitted this story last weekend. One of the many juicy excerpts....

    I have mentioned before the "stacked panel". Panel discussions naturally favor alliances of relatively weak partners - our usual opposition. For example, an "unbiased" panel on OLE vs. OpenDoc would contain representatives of the backers of OLE (Microsoft) and the backers of OpenDoc (Apple, IBM, Novell, WordPerfect, OMG, etc.). Thus we find ourselves outnumbered in almost every "naturally occurring" panel debate.
    A stacked panel, on the other hand, is like a stacked deck: it is packed with people who, on the face of things, should be neutral, but who are in fact strong supporters of our technology. The key to stacking a panel is being able to choose the moderator. Most conference organizers allow the moderator to select the panel, so if you can pick the moderator, you win. Since you can't expect representatives of our competitors to speak on your behalf, you have to get the moderator to agree to having only "independent ISVs" on the panel. No one from Microsoft or any other formal backer of the competing technologies would be allowed - just ISVs who have to use this stuff in the "real world." Sounds marvelously independent doesn't it? In fact, it allows us to stack the panel with ISVs that back our cause. Thus, the "independent" panel ends up telling the audience that our technology beats the others hands down. Get the press to cover this panel, and you've got a major win on your hands.


    If you can't win by technical merit, stack the panel and buy the moderator. OpenDoc was superior and I find it interesting that were there again after 10+ years with the OOXML vs ODF battle.

    I think Microsoft just killed my subscription(s) to every Pro-Windows magazine I subscribe too (DrDobbs, MSDN, etc). Now every favorable opinion I've read about Microsoft will be biased with a "Did Microsoft purchase that expert opinion?". If you compete against Microsoft you will loose because they control the Pundits/Press, and Moderators. Its all about the marketing, not the technical advantages of your product.

    My opinion and I reserve the right to be wrong.
    Enjoy,
    • If you can't win by technical merit, stack the panel and buy the moderator.

      Exactly what they're doing to buy MSOOXML into an ISO standard. In the same article, Groklaw talks about how Microsoft bought Rick Jelliffe to defend their cause (Rick even disclosed that Microsoft paid him to edit MSOOXML entry in Wikipedia!) and how Rick is going to the BRM in Australia's name.

      Rick hosts a blog at O'Reilly and poses as an "independent" consultant, until you start to dig and try to trace the money.

      The comments on this thread [oreillynet.com] on his blog are hilarious (or, in a way, really sad).

    • You're entitled to your opinion, but not your 'facts'.

      There are hundreds of print magazines that hit the dust, and good damn riddance to a lot of them. Mostly, they were goob publishers trying to make a buck of the computer 'waves' and dot-com rush. They were run by journalists that couldn't understand tech. Fortunately, what remains is a pretty decent core these days. There are only a few sycophants that remain, and they're easy to spot.

      Every once in a while, even Microsoft does something right. You can ha
      • by 0olong ( 876791 )
        You're entitled to your opinion, but not your 'facts'.

        The GP only made a series of statements. Surely he or she is entitled to make whatever statements he or she wishes. Which of them you consider facts, 'facts', falsehoods or opinions is [I]your[/I] choice. Please take responsibility for your own decision making!
  • Microsoft may brag about their "intellectual property" and put in language like "licensed for non-commercial distribution", but what rights to they actually have? Does anybody seriously think that they have enforceable patents on the binary MS Office format? On OOXML? On the C# language or their half-hearted Java API clones? What kinds of damage claims could they possibly make if people built more interoperable tools? "Judge, our business has been seriously damaged because we have been prevented from m
    • "Judge, our business has been seriously damaged because we have been prevented from monopolizing the market with our obsolete and cumbersome technology?"

      Yes, in a way it's true that it would be completely ridiculous for Microsoft to try to sue someone based on their patents, considering they're a convicted monopolist. (However, the justice is blind, it doesn't see well, and sometimes does some crazy things.)

      But the problem with patents is not only from Microsoft as a monopolist successfully suing free software authors. Some alternatives for MS:

      • Using patents as FUD, as they already claimed Linux violated 235 of its patents
      • Selling their patents to som
      • by nguy ( 1207026 )
        In any case, Microsoft is more interested in creating doubt than anything, as long as they can create doubt they'll convince most PHBs from keeping away from free software, and that's what they want. Patents are one way to achieve that.

        Only if people like you keep spreading Microsoft's FUD for them.

        Any piece of commercial or free software is a potential target for patent litigation from many sources; open source software is far better equipped for dealing with patent threats than commercial software.

        And giv
    • by Shados ( 741919 )
      I've worked for companies of 10 people who had enforceable (not trollish, genuinly new stuff) patents that we had valid implementations for. Do you really think Microsoft doesn't have any in such complex products?

      (I'm not talking about if they SHOULD be inforceable. I'm talking about if they ARE).

      Thinking Microsoft has very little is an opinion, and possibly a valid one. Saying they have nothing, is something else, and quite stupid.
      • stop spreading FUD (Score:3, Interesting)

        by nguy ( 1207026 )
        Thinking Microsoft has very little is an opinion, and possibly a valid one. Saying they have nothing, is something else, and quite stupid.

        No, what is stupid is to think that there are some magical hidden patents out there. The MS Office format has been around for many years, Microsoft's patents are all known and published, and people look at this stuff regularly.

        If you try to make people concerned about Microsoft patents without giving specifics, you're spreading FUD and playing right into Microsoft's hand
  • and use comments system to comment
  • by TLouden ( 677335 ) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @01:31AM (#22524904)
    As I see it, Microsoft is just saying that they won't sue people who they know can't pay up. Sounds like M$ is just working on litigation efficiency.
  • MORDOR, Washington, Friday (UnGadget) -- Microsoft today announced a set of carefully-phrased promises to appear more open about its business practices and technologies, so as to expand its reach through developers, partners, customers and competitors' wallets.

    The interoperability principles and promises are an apparent, lengthy, reluctant, and necessary step for Microsoft's sudden efforts to fulfill the obligations outlined in the September 2007 judgment of the European Court of First Instance (CFI). And the hope of half a chance of getting OOXML through ISO.

    "These pronouncements appear to be an important step and significant change in how we share information about our products and technologies and a significant expansion in apparent transparency," said Microsoft CEO Heave Stallmore. "While we've promised considerable progress over the past several years, today's announcement takes our virtual commitment to a new level.

    "For the past thirty years, we have carefully shared misinformation with thousands of now-bankrupt partners around the world. By promoting greater interoperability, opportunity and choice, we hope to share even more of their information to our benefit."

    To enable third-party products to connect to Microsoft products, Microsoft will publish for free!!! voluminous documentation, setting a new low in information per page, to contaminate developers with claimed knowledge for which their employers can later be sued, should they not cough up at what Microsoft considers reasonable and non-discriminatory (or not unreasonably so) terms. Open source developers may use these protocols too!!! precisely so long as they do not do anything that involves people not giving Microsoft money.

    "The promises announced today by Microsoft will benefit the broader IT community," said Vomit Togel, head of Microsoft partner Perception Management, "where 'IT community' is defined as 'Microsoft partner.' This provides remarkable opportunity for IT consultants and increased choice of us in the marketplace."

    Microsoft will expand industry outreach and dialog through an online Interoperability Forum and Fee Collection Channel. In addition, an initiative will address data exchange between widely deployed bank accounts.

    "Sincerity is the key," says Microsoft founder Jill Bates III. "If we can fake that, we've got it made."

    Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq MNPLY) is the worldwide dominator in software, services and solutions that make people and businesses help it realise its full potential.

The 11 is for people with the pride of a 10 and the pocketbook of an 8. -- R.B. Greenberg [referring to PDPs?]

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