Amazon Patents Customized 404 Pages 167
theodp writes "Among the patents awarded to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos on Tuesday was one for his invention of Error Processing Methods for Providing Responsive Content to a User When a Page Load Error Occurs, which covers displaying alternate web pages in response to HTTP 404 page-not-found errors. So is this the technology that causes Amazon's Home Page to be displayed when Bezos' MIA Patent Reform Page can't be found?"
The Plan (Score:5, Funny)
And by the way, what constitutes "customized" when its open source software?
Re:The Plan (Score:5, Informative)
Their patent doesn't have anything to do with 404 pages. Their patent covers the specific case of having multiple error pages corresponding to cashed version, or closest name for a page, etcetera -and- a client side component that says failures load alternate version X. The client-side component may be prt of the browser. But the important thing is that the error type is user-settable./p
Re:The Plan (Score:4, Informative)
So... mod_speling for apache would be an accurate representation of prior art of some of that patent, then...
ash
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Nope. Or rather, only if the user got to choose whether the server would use mod_speling -or- an alternate method. The patent is about letting the client choose one of N (N >= 2) methods of error handing, like mod_speling. It doesn't appear to cover any specific method of error handling.
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If I read the patent right, this is a client-side error handler (Javascript, perhaps?) which, instead of just accepting a 404 error page, forwards the URL to a separate web server which determines another page to display somewhat like mod_speling, but I'd guess it could be more powerful (which I'd imagine would be useful with the URLs I've seen Amazon come up with). But then, who would be hand-typing an Amazon link anyway? Are they recording bad links within Amazon's pages so they can fix them?
It's cert
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404'd! (Score:5, Funny)
Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
It's like road rage. When people are cutting you off and breaking all the rules, you have to tailgate and cut them off as a defensive measure (sometimes, at least). Nice guys finish last. The entire system is broken and the Patent Office really needs more legislative direction because it has strayed from its original mission.
I think software and business methods should not be patentable in the same way that physical inventions are. Also, I question the concept of selling patents. We end up with these litigious patent holding companies that have no technical abilities of their own, only a lot of lawyers.
A few years ago I looked into making and marketing a telephony device that would be an incremental but useful improvement over existing equipment, and discovered that so many methods related to telephony and voicemail are patented that practically speaking there was no way to make a device without infringing. "A method for playing back a telephoned message by pressing a button"--give me a freaking break. No wonder the U.S. has slipped behind in technical innovation, when much of the incentive for incremental product improvement has been removed by the threat of instant litigation. Thank goodness the Asians still believe in incremental improvement.
I'm OK with Amazon patenting stupid obvious things, as long as they don't enforce those patents, which I believe they have done very little of, and as long as Jeff Bezos continues to crusade for patent reform. Just my 2c!
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You'd think so, but I have a patent on the idea and I'm just waiting someone to infringe on it.
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A question, then, regarding the point that Amazon holds patents which have clearly been violated but are not being enforced. My understanding is that once a patent is granted in the U.S., the holder must defend it or risk losing the patent. So to the point that "I'd rather have Bezos hold the patent because he has not yet Done Evil," is there any way for someone to obtain the same or similar patent once it has already been "lost," or does it automatically become part of the public domain?
(clearly IANAL)
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There -- fixed it for you...
Re:Old news (Score:4, Insightful)
Would you call his one-click lawsuit from a few years back a "defensive measure"? I would not.
The fact is, he's lied on every last thing he's said on the issue, and swallowing these lies given his clear, repeated, public contradictions of every such claim is just pathetic. I mean, it's long past "stupid".
You believe they have done "very little" of enforcing patents on "stupid obvious things". How much is okay? Would you say that demanding an injunction against a competitor running their existing web site, at all, during the holiday season is "very little"? Reasonable for you? You think it's no big deal to demand that someone suddenly, on no notice, stop accepting any orders on their web site until they revise their system not to conflict with a "stupid obvious" patent?
The fact is, Bezos is part of the problem, and actively so, and all his "crusading" for patent reform has consisted of, purely reactively in response to negative outcries over his abuses, saying sets of things that his critics would like him to say... And then doing nothing about it, and continuing to use the system, as is, to his advantage. Including filing suits.
You know why so many 419 scams have phrases like "in God's name" and "we are devout Christians"? Because there are millions of people who will reflexively assume that anyone who claims to be Christian is honest and trustworthy, as long as they use a few of the right buzzwords. Bezos has found the corresponding hole in your cognitive system; you simply can't be bothered to investigate the truth of his claims. Why? Because, if they were true, they would be exactly what you wish he'd think.
It ain't so. Amazon is an abuser of the patent system. Amazon is a spammer. Amazon is everything we hoped they wouldn't be, and they rely on our wishful thinking to convince us that, really, they're a great company, when they are actually systematic scumbags. They spam, and then they get caught and "fix" it. They abuse the patent system, and they don't even stop abusing it, they just say it's "defensive". They have filed suits against competitors who were not using patents against them since they first claimed this was defensive.
Why do you keep trusting them? What's your emotional investment in never, ever, considering the possibility that they lied to you?
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Any strongbad related post deserves +6 awesomeness!
prior art? (Score:2)
# Customizable error responses come in three flavors:
# 1) plain text 2) local redirects 3) external redirects
#
# Some examples:
#ErrorDocument 500 "The server made a boo boo."
#ErrorDocument 404
#ErrorDocument 404 "/cgi-bin/missing_handler.pl"
Customizable error responses come in three flavors:
# 1) plain text 2) local redirects 3) external redirects
Not prior art (Score:5, Informative)
error pages (which is your post), but about a client
side process that communicates with a separate error server
to generate the appropriate response. So I would guess it
is a intended to be a plugin for a browser.
But then this is slashdot, why bother to read the article.
Re:Not prior art (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not prior art (Score:4, Funny)
Error Displaying Error Message, of course...
Drat, can't find the pic I wanted...
Re:Not prior art (Score:4, Funny)
The most probable error message would be something in the spirit of "You just transfered huge amounts of data on your non-flatrate account. Your account has been suspended."
More likely (Score:2)
Followed by some technical stuff like "Connection refused" or the like.
Re:Not prior art (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Not prior art (Score:4, Funny)
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s/article/patent/
Re:Not prior art (Score:4, Insightful)
(And having a 404 handler that tries to figure out what the user is looking for [which is the other major component]? That has very, very much been done before).
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The requested patent is totally fake.
No patent here.
Even tried multi.
Nothing helped.
I'm really depressed about this.
You see, I'm just a web server...
-- here I am, brain the size of the universe,
trying to serve you a simple patent,
and then it doesn't even exist!
Where does that leave me?!
How stupid can the patent office be.. (Score:4, Informative)
I am sure we can find some prior art.. the most annoying being angelfire and geocities from way back when.
Re:How stupid can the patent office be.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you get too many patent applications, the process of establishing if prior art exists also gets swamped. Thus without a special effort, patents which have prior art can still get granted.
I've skimmed the patent in question, and it sounds like a new thing to me. There may be bits and pieces that invalidate some of what it does, but since the USPTO allows patents for software products (which has always struck me as dumb), this is probably valid.
Re:How stupid can the patent office be.. (Score:5, Funny)
They should use Comcast, then. That should slow the torrents down a bit...
*cower (Rank 8)*
Re:How stupid can the patent office be.. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you get too many patent applications, the process of establishing if prior art exists also gets swamped. Thus without a special effort, patents which have prior art can still get granted.
Um, easy solution, don't issue any patents until you're sure there's no prior art. If there are too many patents submitted, tough shit, no patents for anyone. That would motivate reform!
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Sure enough that you're willing to risk some sort of liability if you issue the patent and prior art is later discovered.
Even better make the patent holder liable if the patent is found to be invalid for any reason. If you sue someone for patent violation and the patent is found to be invalid for any reason you have to pay the person you sued the amount you were suing for. Make the liability cost enough and applying for BS patents would end overnight. Enforcement of existing patents would be much more selective and less of a shakedown scheme as it is now.
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I always wondered whether the "According to Jim" writers were working day jobs during the strike. Now I know.
RTFA you tards (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why would Amazon patent a client-side component? (Score:2)
(not to mention that they would be total tards for actually implementing it, given how much pain IE causes by intercepting 404 already)
Re:Why would Amazon patent a client-side component (Score:3, Insightful)
Mod parent +1 (Score:2)
Re:Why would Amazon patent a client-side component (Score:2)
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As far as software patents go, it's not all that bad. But that's like saying that as far as serial killers go, Charles Manson wasn't all that bad.
I claim prior art (Score:2)
A lot of these pages are still to be found on the Internet archive dating back in the 90's...
Whenever someone goes to http://myserver/username/directory [myserver] it looks up in an internal database where to go to if the user or directory doesn't exist.
So, now I am doing this illegally
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Keep that up, and you'll NEVER be asked to be a Slashdot editor. Who the fuck wants a clear, concise and specific one-line statement about the gist of the off-site article? Where's the adventure in that?
I wonder what happens if the external server throws an error when tryin
I Read TFA and (Score:2)
My reading is that the client *could* be a CGI script on the web server (or even the web server itself) just as that script could also be described as a database client. The only issue is that something is sent somewhere else to handle the error. I am not at all sure that the "client" refers to the web browser here (i.e. it could be part of an N-tier app).
In short, the only thing here is that the error handling routines rather than included in the web server are daemonized. So does
It's *CLIENT* based (Score:5, Informative)
Most (all?) 'automatic redirect' systems I've seen are server based - the server runs a script which says 'That page couldn't be found, did you mean any of these...'
I can't imagine who'd put this on the client with client-server communication going on. It sounds like a vastly over-engineered and 'Enterprisey' solution to me. It DOES have the advantage that it can look back in the browser history, but I'm not sure I see how that could benefit the user (the component COULD tell the server what's in the history though, so it could benefit Amazon!)
MSIE did it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or maybe it does, but the customization is like, subtle, man.
(Warning: I haven't read TFA either.
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(Honestly, I knew that at some point, but spaced it. Thanks for pointing it out.)
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That's always annoyed me so much! "Page cannot be displayed" is a lot less informative than an http error number. It displays the same thing, practically, for a 404 error as when your internet connection is down. Presumably Amazon's dealie will be more useful? I dunno the patent just seems to be for a pretty useless service.
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Especially if the user in question has some things in their history they might not want popping up in front of others.
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When Google first came out with its cache I wrote a little widget to try the Google cache, then archive.org on a 404. It's been so long, I'm not sure how much of that was in javascript, greasemonkey or AppleScript, but it was certainly 'client-side'. I also thought it was 'obvious' and there's probably a FireFox extension to do it too.
Patents (Score:3, Funny)
It's like the loophole I found when I was in Game a few months ago:
"£9.99 please"
"But it says it's half price"
"No, it's only half price when bought with something else"
"Oh... so if I buy two of these then I get them both for less than the price of just one of them?"
(Realising the problem) "...yeah... yeah you would actually"
"OK, I'll be back in a minute"
Easy solution: Redirect your 404's :) (Score:2)
Considering almost everyone uses the 'back' option anyway after hitting a 404...
Useful bit of engineering (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a client component (read adware/malware) that intercepts 404 messages, calls home to find out where to redirect the user, then redirects.
i.e. if you type in "slahdsot.org" it will search a database of misspellings and redirect you to "slashdot.org".
or.. in the case of malware.. if you type in "myinternetbank.com" it could redirect you to "myphishingsite.com".
I'd be surprised if there isn't prior art among the less ethical Internet inventions out there.
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It took me just a few google searches to find a worm that did exactly that; it intercepts and redirected google searches to a results page with different ads.
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find malware that intercepts 404's.
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Wheel patented in Australia (Score:5, Funny)
John Keogh was issued the innovation patent for a "circular transportation facilitation device" under a patent system introduced in May 2001.
(read the rest...) [newscientist.com]
- Jesper
Custom errors (Score:2, Funny)
They don't use their own invention? (!) (Score:2)
On sites with actual smart 404 , it will grab the / part and do a site search showing relevant results or if it is plain obvious like my guess, even forward the person to right URL.
prior art (Score:2)
The patents are customizing... (Score:2)
Will the USPTO be sued first? (Score:2)
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I don't think Amazon would sue USPTO, but it would definitely sue Microsoft: for IIS which allows customized 404 pages,
and Apple, and Oracle, and IBM.
By the time the dust settles in court, Amazon's would have been equally split between Microsoft, Apple, Oracle and IBM.
Jeff Bezos's ultra-secret Spacecraft would be sold for undisclosed sum to Virgin Atlantic as a part of court settlement.
Prior Art (Score:2)
At least Bezos is staying within the 20th century (Score:2)
Bemopolis
Title 'spin' and patent specs (Score:2)
The title of the article is a bit deceptive. I suspect that customized '404' pages have been around long before the patent application. (The style of the customization would depend upon the web site designers and administrators. They range from cryptic through helpful, sarcastic, sympathetic and clueless.)
Having the browser use client side data to provide information as to WHY you are getting '404' is a form of customization that is different. While old style customized '404' pages might display possibl
Prior Art? (Score:2)
For several years now, I have used a custom error404 page for a client in order to handle the following scenario:
www.example.com/username01
The username01 folder does not exist, so the error404 script is called. The script checks the database to see if the user exists, and if so, renders a custom webpage for that user. I'm certain other sites do this as well.
Is thi
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Re:We need a lawyer to explain this (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is exactly the situation with the 1-click patent. Cookies were invented to allow a site to recognise a returning user/customer, so patenting the act of using cookies to recognise a returning customer (and by "recognising" I mean linking them to an account) should never have been allowed a patent.
There is a VERY simple solution: don't buy anything off Amazon, and tell your friends not to too. I don't. If they want my money they can stop trying to prevent me from working.
TWW
Re:We need a lawyer to explain this (Score:4, Insightful)
In my case, I've "built" a system using nothing more than a set of other peoples building blocks. Each existing component is already extensively patented and/or in common use with TONS of prior art. The system I created performs a useful function that is also covered by prior art (in my case, it is a medical diagnostic tool).
The patent attorney told me that my idea was very likely patentable because it was a "novel" (new) implementation, even though the pieces exist and a (different) end product already exists.
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The patent attorney told me that my idea was very likely patentable because it was a "novel".
That's like a Software Engineer who looks at somebody else's code and says, "This code is shit, it needs to be rewritten."
It *sounds* like you have a good justification to get a patent, but keep in mind that it would be in the patent attorneys best interest to recommend that you file for a patent even if it was probably something that isn't patentable.
The metaphor of throwing dirt at the wall to see what sticks comes to mind. Plus, it takes years for a patent to get approved/rejected so as long as he
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that's where the money is
Re:Apparently prior art doesn't matter at ALL anym (Score:2)
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maybe I'll patent that..."the system/method....."
I can just here that guy on the Dave Chappelle show in that truck load of cigs and money saying "I'm rich, beeyotch!"
(http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=24406)
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1) It's flat
2) It's horizontal
3) It's used to demonstrate ice skating skill
Now, that's what i call a really well formulated patent
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