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Anti-Piracy Group Violates Swiss Law to Track File Sharing 95

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the define-zealot dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Another fight appears to be brewing in Switzerland over how file sharers are identified. Logistep, a company that specializes in anti-piracy by collecting computer evidence against file sharers for use in lawsuits, seems to have taken an end run around Swiss law in order to try and settle cases out of court. 'Under Swiss law, the identity of a subscriber to an ISP (Internet service provider) can only be revealed during the course of a criminal case, not a civil one, Schaefer said. The IP (Internet Protocol) address of a computer controlled by the subscriber is considered "personal" information. In order to try to claim damages from people suspected of trading songs or movies, Logistep has asked Swiss prosecutors to open criminal cases, Schaefer said. As the criminal cases progresses, Logistep receives information from prosecutors that identifies the file sharer.'"
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Anti-Piracy Group Violates Swiss Law to Track File Sharing More

Anti-Piracy Group Violates Swiss Law to Track File Sharing

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  • The REAL Villains Here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @04:39PM (#22187268)
    The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired! (Donald Trump, where are you?)

    • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 )

      The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme.
      The good news is that Swiss citizens, with their direct democracy, can easily hold their public officials accountable. Though at the Federal level, a citizen initiated law needs the support of the states.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mpe ( 36238 )
      The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired!

      Or even face a firing squad composed of the Swiss citizens who's details they allowed to be leaked. Given that summary execution is the traditional punishment for High Treason.
    • I wish I could mod you higher than 5!

      Corruption is the root of a HUGE number of problems in today's corporate society. Abuse of power is a direct contributor to social decline.

  • Who watches the watchers? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by KublaiKhan ( 522918 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @04:42PM (#22187300) Homepage Journal
    So who is it that should prosecute the prosecutors?

  • Swiss law is broken (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is to file a lawsuit against the person. This goes for other things besides file sharing, such as libel.
    • But if all these attacks are from anonymous cowards like you, then they carry no weight and therefore a libel suit has no merit since no damage can be done.

      note that if the accusations are actually true and have evidence to back them up then it doesn't matter if they are anonymous or not, and a libel suit won't be successful.

      in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

      • >in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

        I have another word...

        Inanity protects all three of us. ;)

    • if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is

      Wait, wait... Someone posts an anonymous post, complaining that someone else posted an anonymous post... and it gets modded "INSIGHTFUL"!??!?!... (head explodes)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cdrguru ( 88047 )
      There are no consequences to actions on the Internet, and this just affirms it.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Dan541 ( 1032000 )

      if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is to file a lawsuit against the person. This goes for other things besides file sharing, such as libel.
      If someone says something you dont like!

      In other words their freedom of speech!

  • Swiss independence (Score:5, Interesting)

    by redelm ( 54142 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @04:52PM (#22187450) Homepage
    Oh my. Somebody is going to get into _big_ trouble. The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans. They also take their laws very seriously and playing games is quite simply not allowed.


    I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.


    If the copyright holders don't like the law, they can lobby to get it changed. Otherwise, the Swiss guard their privacy very jealously. They've stood up to various flavors of nasty Germans and French. I very much doubt they'll cave to the RIAA equivalent. Please also remember that K-Tel is a swiss corp deliberately to take advantage of copyright laws.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Tribaal_ch ( 1192815 )
      They don't get to lobby to get a law changed. In Switzerland, national laws are voted by referendum.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by redelm ( 54142 )
        Thank you for the elaboration. But I believe that referenda were only for major laws, and not for minor changes. Allowing civil discover would probably be legally considered a minor change. Or maybe not if there is a specific Swiss Privacy Law (and not merely custom and provisions in other laws).
      • I think you're forgetting the old definition of lobbying. From Wikipedia: [wikipedia.org]

        Lobbying is a concerted effort designed to affect influence, typically over government authorities and elected officials.
        In this case, they'd actually have to roll up their sleeves and lobby the people, not just their representatives.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans"

      HAHAHA +1 Funny! Americans + independent minded?
      Most Americans are so "non-independent minded" that they think they are!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mpe ( 36238 )
      I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.

      They should probably also send the Swiss equivalent of the BSA into Logistep too. After all it wouldn't be the first time that an "anti-piracy" entity was enguaging in quite a bit of "piracy" themselves.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by drsmithy ( 35869 )

      The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans.

      No, they're very community minded. There's a difference. The average American would just about feel oppressed living in Switzerland (especially if he hadn't been living here for long enough to be granted the "right" kind of residence permit).

  • In all fairness, (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gnarlyhotep ( 872433 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @04:53PM (#22187456)
    The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws, they conspired with the prosecutors, who are the ones who may have violated the privacy laws (if a criminal case was not warranted).

    Either way, it's still a gross violation of the spirit of the law, and certainly reprehensible.

    • Re:In all fairness, (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @05:07PM (#22187610) Journal

      The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws,
      Alright

      they conspired with the prosecutors
      I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?

      If the prosecutors are going to get slapped, so is Logistep and vice versa.

      • Re:In all fairness, (Score:4, Interesting)

        by gnarlyhotep ( 872433 ) on Friday January 25, 2008 @05:16PM (#22187680)
        "I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?" Conspiracy is, in almost every jurisdiction, a seperate prosecutable offense related to a violation of the law. It's understood to be illegal to conspire to violate the law, due to the fact that one or more of the conspirators do not actually violate the law.

        In this case, they weren't the ones obtaining the IP addresses under (presumably) false pretenses, nor providing them illegally. They convinced the prosecutors, who have an obligation to the public, to do such a thing. Ire placed solely upon the "anti-piracy" group is misplaced; the bulk of it should go to the prosecutors who were the ones *directly* violating the law and abusing the public trust.

        Did the conspiracy violate a law? yes. Did the conspiracy violate the *privacy* law specifically? no. Semantic difference, but the law is all about trifling details and semantics.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by gnarlyhotep ( 872433 )
          Correction: the conspiracy most likely violated the law. I don't know the specifics of Swiss law, nor am I a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.
      • I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?


        It's possible. I remember reading, once, that there were problems at Nuremberg because conspiracy wasn't a crime in France or the Soviet Union at the time, and it took a little time for the judges from those nations to understand the charge and its importance. For all I know, it might not be a crime in Switzerland right now.

    • Even if a criminal case was warranted, what right do they have to receive information that was gained during investigation of that case?

      IANAL, but as far as i understand, when a criminal charge is filed against somebody, the state attorney has to investigate, but the one who charged does not have any special rights to inquire about the findings of that investigation, at least while it's not yet before a court.

      • If it were an open criminal proceeding not subject to a quash/sealing order, the information might be avialable to anyone who reviewed the case files. Get the IP, have it presented as evidence, include it in a motion to the court and it's there for anyone who looks to see.

        At least, that's my guess on why they convinced the prosecutors to go forward with a criminal trial.
  • Wait, could you clarify, once more, what this "IP" means???? Sincerely, Confused
  • I foresee a long wonderful friendship between me and law enforcement as I track down RIAA agents using extreme measures for the bounties ...

    Lock and load, filesharers! It's clobbering time!
  • This, along with The Pirate Bay receiving a 4000-page complaint [slashdot.org] seems to indicate a disturbing trend towards the *AA-style of dealing with file sharing.

  • EU law too. (Score:3, Informative)

    by oliverthered ( 187439 ) <{moc.liamtoh} {ta} {derehtrevilo}> on Friday January 25, 2008 @06:02PM (#22188154) Journal
    IP addresses have just been made private data under EU law too, don't know how that affects civil law cases though [thenextweb.org]

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by DJ Decay ( 238591 )
      Switzerland is not in the EU, so it probably doesn't have much of an effect.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by surfi ( 1196953 )
      it seems all EU countries have now the can't-sue-me-loophole.. they need the identity of the subscriber to sue him, but can't ask anyone who the subscriber is :)
  • You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by gnasher719 ( 869701 )

      You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen.

      None. All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate. They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention whatsoever to actually follow through with the roughly 10,000 criminal cases that they wanted the police to investigate, so in Germ

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mpe ( 36238 )
        All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate.

        The police's investigation may well include investigating the complainant. Rather than just passing on the complaint to prosecutors.

        They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention wha
  • in soviet switzerland, YOU sue RIAA!
  • This being Switzerland, where you can the the public voting on anything, as long as you gather 50.000(?) signature, why can't someone "just" campaign to get a vote for sensible copyright laws in the first place?

    • as long as you gather 50.000(?) signature
      Fifty point zero, zero, zero.
      I think 50 signatures is a little low, don't you. I think you meant 50,000 signatures (also you didn't pluralize signature, but this transgression pales in comparison for the incorrect usage of a decimal point in lieu of a comma).

      mjwx,
      Senior Grammar Fascist.
      Department of anal retentivity.
      • You know that some countries exchange the use of the coma and the decimal point (just check the regional config in windows and you'll see what i mean), and since he said "here in..." i bet he's from switzeland, wich gives him a good reason to have confused both. Specially considering the correct way in Switzeland would be 50'000 aparently.

        So maybe you should stop being a grammar nazi with someone who doesn't have English as his first language, if those 2 are the only errors he made then i think he did a g

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mjwx ( 966435 )
          The decimal place/comma thing does tend to get to me because I have a scientific/mathematics background (my spelling is nothing to be proud of, I'll admit). Also being an Aussie I am not familiar with the nuances of European dialects (so to me "here in" doesn't tend to flag anything as I often see the English phase "here in lies" used).

          For the record, I regularly deal with Asian clients who's English grammar and spelling skills are normally pretty bad so please permit me the odd eccentricity (because I c
  • It's offtopic, but does anyone know what happened with Swiss version of DMCA? Was it voted down by people or not?
  • I guess for anti-piracy groups any number of wrongs added the wrong the pirate groups commit MUST equal a right.
  • Interesting to read this here on Slashdot, and the source was obvisouly some UK news site. Because, here in Switzerland (where I live), it's not in the news, nobody talking about it and I never heard anything about so far ;-)

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