Jack Thompson Claiming Games Industry in Collusion with DoD 289
mytrip brings us a Wired blog about Jack Thompson's recent press release, which claims an "unholy alliance" exists between the gaming industry and the U.S. Department of Defense. Game Politics also has a discussion of Thompson's main points. From Wired:
"Jim Blank, the head of the modeling and simulation division of the U.S. Joint Forces Command, says that commercial games don't meet the demand of the military, adding, 'first-person shooter games really don't apply in this environment.' Blank's point is that game-like simulations are a valuable tool for training soldiers in situations that would be too expensive to simulate in reality."
and? (Score:5, Insightful)
Somehow adding video games to the mix makes it more unholy than it already was?
Whatever. Will someone just shoot this guy already?
Re:and? (Score:5, Funny)
Don't be alarmed, everyone. That's just the video games talking.
Re:and? (Score:5, Funny)
Why is this guy still allowed to tie up the media and court system? Why isn't he in jail or disbarred or institutionalized? He is the Jerry Falwell of videogames and at least Falwell finally had the decency to fucking die.
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Using games to control the war in the meat world (Score:2)
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Jack Thompson will never take this down alone. It's a shame Ronald Reagan is gone. There is nothing he couldn't do.
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Cognitive Dissonance [wikipedia.org]
Re:and? (Score:5, Informative)
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Sadly Jack Thompson's community is "Lawyerdom".
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Re:and? (Score:5, Funny)
Stupidity?
Re:and? (Score:5, Insightful)
But let's be accurate:
Obviously I'm down with JC. Just a disclaimer. I am biased.
But my point is that hypocrisy is harder to nail down in some religions than in others. Christianity, IMHO, makes glaring hypocrites of us all in short order. Christ set the bar ridiculously high. As was His point.
Sorry for the appologetics on the nerd site.
On topic, I'm all for video games depicting violence. I play FPS with my nephew all the time. Being human and intelligent requires some basic discernment, after all. Thompson should probably keep his mouth shut and not claim to represent "values" or any religion whatsoever, if he does.
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How side-stepping that is justified in all 3 religions is of no interest to me. More, how hypocrisy, contradiction, and cognitive dissonance of all varieties and intensities are rationalized also doesn't interest me... well, honestly, they both interest me a great deal as a matter of curio
Re:and? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well. I'm an atheist. And care very little. Be that as it may, why is it you are so sure? "Kill" is a modern word. And an English word. Surely you don't think that they were speaking English back then, right? The Bible wasn't written in English. That part was... what?... Aramaic? Old Hebrew? What was the original word used, and what were its connotations? And why are you so sure that the English word "kill" is a precise and exact carry over of all the connotations of the original word used? This needs some splainin'.
C//
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Um, well you and I being nonbelievers, I can see what you are saying. But if you are a believer, you ought to be more concerned with what The One True God (tm) said than what humans "taught for 1700 years" (um, no -- not 1700! -- as Engl
Re:and? (Score:5, Interesting)
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If it really were that important, would such a basic translation error be allowed to stand even for 400 years (assuming the error arrived with the king james version)?
If it has not been fixed, and it is indeed wrong, doesn't that say something else... perhaps something much more interesting... about how important the "word" of god really is even to people who say it is important... at least, how important it is
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You haven't looked in many modern translations of the Bible, have you?
Go here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/ [biblegateway.com]
Then select an English translation.
Then put in verse "Exodus 20:13".
I find amusement in your sentiment that "you don't understand these people at all". I find the lot of 'em to be fucked up, mostly. To wit, while you are there, add Leviticus 20:13 to your translation.
C//
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But, you can't simply wave your hand and make the issue of interpretation go away. Did God mean "thou shall not kill ANYTHING" or "thou shall not kill HUMANS"? You could make the case that eating meat is killing a sentient lifeform and therefore breaks the commandment. Aside from other "commandments" (not the 10) t
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ignoring the translation issues in another part of the discussion;
I think it's not even interpretive to assume that "people" is implied in "thou shalt not kill". vegetarianism as far as I know isn't even mentioned in the bible.. that doesn't open the door to language craziness. The commandments are very clearly about how to treat people and act in your society. so sure, interpetation is big
unambiguous god of war (Score:3, Informative)
Interpretations aside, "Thou shalt not kill" is unambiguous.
Deuteronomy 20:10-15 [biblegateway.com]
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder f
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My understanding is that no moneychangers were harmed in the making of that film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_money_changers [wikipedia.org]
To be fair, Jesus never really said that disputes could be solved through non-violent means, or preached that non-violence was an answer to anything. He just said to do it, because it was the right thing to do. And "blessed are the peacemakers." Stuff like that. See Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. if you want the real pacifism, the kind that offe
Of course it is. We got ninjas and pirates too... (Score:4, Funny)
Mr. Thompson, should I interpret it in this way... (Score:2)
Just for the record, of course...
Re:Mr. Thompson, should I interpret it in this way (Score:5, Insightful)
I am pretty sure that was meant to be funny, but the truth of what is really being said is startling.
He is anti-american, like so many other neo-cons. The reason they want to change so many things of such consequence is they do not like the US. They want a new country with their rules in place. Something much more akin to the fundamentalist Muslim countries or Mussolini's government. A place where their ideals and beliefs reign supreme without that bothersome interruption from people who would think or believe differently.
I guess the scary part for me is that at one time, when I started learning about the neo-cons, I agreed with much of what I had learned. It was not until much later when I started seeing through the lies that I really got a grasp on what they stand for. It almost lends plausibility to those who believe they are trying to create a new world order. Because it sure seems like they are.
InnerWeb
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please don't think that i am a "neo-con", or defending that particular POV. i guess in this current cycle of election-mania i felt the need to vent about the oversimplification of political rhetoric that bombards us daily from the news outlets.
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We tried that. And they said "those liberals can't agree on anything."
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About as un-american as I could imagine, to be blunt.
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It's a fair comparison, not hyperbole at all, to take what some of the founding members of the neo-conservative movement have said, and the fact that some politicians have claimed to be inspire
And if you play really well, you get abducted... (Score:4, Funny)
See, the game is just a simulation of the real fight and the aliens need to find someone to save them. If you are the best, they come get you to go fight their war using the fabled "Death Blossom" maneuver.
(Not to be confused with the fabled "Turd Blossom" maneuver used many times over the last seven years by the Bush administration.)
Re:And if you play really well, you get abducted.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Have a pretty white jacket, long arms. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Have a pretty white jacket, long arms. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the 1st is more important than silencing him. He ain't that important.
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He has been committed to a psychiatric evaluation [wikipedia.org], which he somehow managed to pass, and the Florida Bar has been trying to get him disbarred [wikipedia.org], so far without results.
The man is the real-life equivalent of GNAA. In a way, it is admirable how he takes trolling to the level of art.
It's the gamers! The gamers and the DOD! (Score:2)
AACK! JEWS! JEWS AND KOOPA TROOPERS!
RUUUUNNNNN!
Seriously. How has this man not been clubbed like a seal yet?
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Re:It's the gamers! The gamers and the DOD! (Score:5, Insightful)
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They're still running around trying to locate the BFG first?
No, no, The BFG [wordpress.com] wouldn't harm a fly. It's the maneating giants that you need if you want to get Jack Thompson.
:)
Though personally, I'd have thought it easier just to get some sort of big fucking gun than to get a fictitious character from a Roald Dahl children's story to do the dirty work..
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Sheesh... turn in your geek card, mod!
http://www.deadmilkmen.com/lyrics/stuart.html [deadmilkmen.com]
conflict of interest (Score:3, Insightful)
Parsimony... (Score:5, Insightful)
Violent crime rate [usdoj.gov]
Video game sales [blognewschannel.com]
That (presumeably violent) video game use correlates with a massive secret drive towards violence, that is somehow counterbalanced in the overall violent crime rate, or that this (now) extremely common form of entertainment is at worst, on average, a similar factor in people's lives as movies or books?
True, the ever-shifting and politically influenced definition of violent crime may have shifted definition over the years too, but I highly doubt any theories on that line would be able to mask the accusations Thomson makes about the use of video games in society.
In order to match Thomson's account to reality in any way, you'd have to start making up any number of wild inventions to force the facts into place... kind of like what he's doing here.
Ryan Fenton
Decline in Violence may be linked to unleaded gas (Score:3, Interesting)
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The first graph shows Violent crime dramatically dropping from 1973-2003.
The second shows a dramatic increase in modern Video Game consoles from 2000-2003.
If you notice on the first graph, right around the year 2000, that dramatic decrease is getting much less dramatic,
Almost like the steady decrease is being slowed down by the sales of game consoles.
Who's to say the violence graph doesn't just start increasing after 2005, once people have had a
Too simplistic (Score:2)
Essentially, this is how you should look at that first graph:
"Mr. Ferris makes one of the biggest errors in statistics by not accounting for other factors that changed over the same period. In fact, I could plot the same graph showing a steady increase in youth incarceration rates beginning in the mid-1990s, but it would be equally flawed (although somehow I doubt that it would get as many diggs). The point is that an analysis of crime needs to use multivariate regression. Simply making a two-dimensional plot and attributing the subsequent drop in violent youth crime to playing video games, as some people have unfortunately done based on this graph, is simply wrong when more significant factors like economic conditions, youth incarceration, and passage of state laws that try children as adults dramatically increased over the same period. In fact, it's theoretically possible for exposure to media violence to cause a small increase in violent youth crime and yet to observe the same downward trend when these other factors have a larger and negative influence on violent crime rates. Just my two cents. "
My personal opinion is to agree with you, but your analysis of that data is too simplisitc.
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If that were true, then Thomson's (insane) argument would have an interesting twist: Turning a majority of the potentially violent population into "professional killers" actually reduces the random incidence of violence, and makes for a more militarily secure nation. Instead of being a harm to society, this stupid theory would insist that video games focus violent
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Actually, if you read the article [usdoj.gov] you will see that the violent crime rate is has been going down because they changed the way that they measure it.
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So we've got old and false info? That it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't Give Him Publicity (Score:4, Insightful)
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Free? Do you realize how many man-hours and bandwidth are consumed? Someone takes the time to post the story, someone else sends a link to Slashdot, then hoards of trolls spend countless hours responding to the story with posts about "Has he been disbarred yet?". Free? I think not!
WTF? (Score:2)
This guy must have a secretary, because he's obviously too stupid to type his own editorials.
The only news here is that anyone bothers to publish his rants.
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As the game industry becomes increasingly refined, the DoD becomes more incompetant?
Joke intended, humorless mods...Who Gives a Shit? (Score:2)
~S
Madness? (Score:3, Funny)
in need of a life (Score:2)
and i'm not talking about the gamers.
Alliance? (Score:2)
On the other hand, having such an obvious loon leading the charge against video games is probably a good thing. It's not hard for anyone to pick up on the fact that not all his dogs are barkin'. If the anti-violent-video-game crowd really want to have any chance of success, they should muzzle this idiot now before the rest of them get thoroughly discredited by association.
Why are we still talking about Jack Thompson? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Its the Technoology Stupid (Score:4, Informative)
Most importantly, Video games don't do that with any accuracy at all. They can show you what it looks like, they can help you learn the approximate timing, they can maybe remind you to keep looking around for more bad guys and not just focus on the one in front of you. But that is all. At best it shortens the training time needed in the real world training course, much like a football coach has a "chalk talk" in a classroom before you suit up and take the field. Worse, too much application of simulation can induce negative training, in short, teaching them to do the wrong thing in order to win the game.
As for the Industry taking cues from the DOD, I wish they would. For starters the Physics models used in gaming are a joke and have been for years. If police and soldiers and criminals in real life could run like they do in games, shootouts would look like the Superhero Olympics. Every car chase would be the Indy 500 Cross Country Demolition Derby. If the aliens ever show up, they'd have good reason to want humans stomped out, we'd be too dammed dangerous! No, Game designers might get ideas from military scenarios (Call to Duty 1 - N anyone?), but they aren't using real situations. And if anyone could even vaguely show the FPS games were imprinting "Go Army" on any brains, major heads would roll. The fact the school shooters were using the games just shows how "out of it" they were. They didn't know the games weren't useful or accurate for training, so they used them, which somehow means the games were responsible after all.
Thompson is just taking out some ire on innocent bystanders for doing something he already hates. Yet another example of a political control freak.
Jack's a bit slow (Score:4, Funny)
Wait (Score:3, Interesting)
Could it be, that one of the most complained about things on
The Patriot Act gets Thompson tossed in Guantanamo for an unspecified period, then there's one less problem to worry about.
Probably too good to be true, but we could dream.
Enough with Jack Thompson, already (Score:2, Insightful)
The next time someone submits a Jack Thompson story, please make the headline the following: Jack Thompson Bleats Again.
And the body of the text can be: Jack Thompson, well-known corrupt and insanely-paranoid former lawyer, makes another outrageous statement.
Crazy lawsuits... (Score:2)
Maybe Riches can sue him for trademark infringement.
Short and sweet (Score:2)
Collusion? (Score:2)
What a nut.
All that lawyer schooling (Score:2)
He's got it the wrong way round (Score:3, Insightful)
At least after being killed on the screen you can respawn a few times before crossing the floor to the fridge to extract another beer while you comtemplate the fact that you earn more sitting in your office than a soldier does in Iraq without having to put up with being shot at. On the other hand, if you are still at school and can't tell the difference between a game and reality you're more than likely better off in the army as they're probably getting pissed with soldiers who go "off message" on their blogs.
not very good training - they don't shoot back (Score:2)
OK, I'm not a military man, but it seems to me that the first and most important lesson you want to teach troops is how not to die. Knowing how to squirt death around (preferably at the other guys, not your own side) is fine, provided you aren't dead or injured.
What video games teach is that you can do pretty much anything with impunity. The worst thing that happens to you is a
Don't worry about the military and video games... (Score:4, Funny)
Idea for a new game! (Score:2)
Old News (Score:2)
Since military simulation s/w is big business, it wouldn't surprise me that the DoD steers contracts to organizations that they consider friendly.
Parental Insanity (Score:3, Insightful)
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Why don't this protest real killing instead of fake killing? I'd have far more respect for him.
This just in: child sued by Thompson for holding up finger and going, "bang!"....
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
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http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/All/07D079003898F95585256A830051348B?OpenDocument [floridabar.org]
That links to the license for John (Jack) Bruce Thompson. His registration number is 231665.
Sorry to correct you.
--AC
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"So Whos in this Pentaverate?"
"The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, AND Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Ahh I hated the Colonel with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face...ooooh your gonna buy my chicken oooh!"
"D
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not geeks
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