IBM Files DVD Spam Patent Application 170
An anonymous reader writes "Mark Wilson of Gizmodo.com reports that IBM is applying for a patent for DVDs that contain or download 'on demand' commercials that cannot be skipped. Consumers would be able to purchase these DVDs at a lower price than regular DVDs and pay extra to enjoy their purchase ad-free without having to buy a second DVD. Perhaps this is part of the massive shift in advertising that IBM predicts."
Spam? (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing that distinguishes spam from commercial mail is that it's unsolicited. These discs sound like they suck, but they're not spam. (I note the linked article doesn't mention spam either)
Re:Spam? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Spam? (Score:5, Insightful)
First you need to see the Copyright notice (no skip), then you get 2 disney logos (the one with Ting and the Buena Vista one, no skip).
Then you have no less than 8 "Comming to DVD" Disney films. Thankfully those can be skipped, but not directly. For some reason, you need to press skipp 8 times. And no, "Menu" doesn't get you directly to the ..ehmm...menu..
Sometimes i don't care to press skip and rather let my son watch the whole thing.. they win again..
And worst of all, those Disney VDs are in fact more expensive than those from other studios which have less ads.. Go figure
So i rather pay less for the same ads (I doub they'll have more than Disney anyway).
Re:Spam? (Score:4, Informative)
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I use Windows XP MediaCenter Edition as the centerpiece of my home AV setup, and in addition making you sit through unskippables, it, "due to restrictions set by the broadcaster," prohibits you from playing a commercial (CSS protected) DVD at higher than 480p resolution. VLC kept me from having to start over with Linux MCE or M
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Luckily I discovered a faster way to get through unskippables -- lean on the fast forward button. Either the previews run at warp speed or, if the DVD allows it the previews will be skipped entirely
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how hard is that, dude?
you are not doing your child a service by EXPOSING them to advertising that is against your will.
basically, in the formative years, you are now filling their cranium up with useless ads and jingles.
I consider that harmful.
take control over your own media players! stop using 'appliance' dvd players. they're junk anyway and they help fund 'the bad guys' via licensing costs.
rip to disk, save the 'stream' as simple
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Yes, I do. But I also have a chinese DVD player from Shinco [shinco.com] company. It allows to skip all crap, no matter what DVD thinks about it.
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Do you really think they are going to charge you less for the advert infested DVDs? No, they will just tack it on all their new DVDs, so if you want it, you have to watch all the adverts. They are probably reasearching a way to force you to sit down and watch the adverts, so you can't just do something else while you are waiting for the movie to start.
It is better to just avoid these companies as much as you can. They will do everything they can think of to squeeze money out of you and screw you for as mu
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There are a lot of benefits to doing this: no more CDs and DVDs cluttering up the living room, if I want to listen to a particular
Recursive Advertising (Score:2, Funny)
Shortly after the system goes online, it will start downloading adverts for more advert-infested DVDs. Disks will start multiplying exponentially, the world will plunge behind an event horizon, and the universe will be sucked into a supermassive black-hole of infinite advertising.
Much the same kind of thing happened when they started printing adverts for breakfast cereal on packets of breakfast cereal.
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Thats all you need to do to rip the movie (minus ads) and put it on a nice video on demand server.
Wow that's great (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Wow that's great (Score:5, Insightful)
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So, not only are illegal copies a better product, they're generally cheaper. Way to go content middle men. You fail again.
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Where do I sign up? (Score:1)
In game ads and now movie ads... this is getting ugly.
Re:Where do I sign up? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm a movie fan... I enjoy them without "people".
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The social aspect of humanity dies with this comment.
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The last movie-theater chain around here that didn't run ads (other than the usual trailers and "visit our snackbar" messages) appears to have been bought out by another chain that does. I've not been back to the theater since, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. Netflix gets most movies a few months after they're in theaters, and MythTV's DVD player doesn't enforce PUO [wikipedia.org]s. (My old Apex AD610A doesn't, either, but it's still packed up as I don't really need i
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If you subscribe to Sky Plus (or Sky HD -- the HD box includes Sky Plus functionality), you get a "recording" box. This allows you to pause and rewind (as far as the last channel change) live TV. If you change channels on time for the beginnin
If you're the type to back up your discs... (Score:2, Interesting)
And I predict that any advertising that .... (Score:4, Insightful)
If I see an add which annoys me, I will try pretty hard to avoid that company in the future.
So companies should not try to figure out "How do we FORCE people to see our adds", but "What can we do that people WANT to see our adds".
THAT is the big shift in marketing that could save the advertising business.
Also, since this idea is based on the DVD player having an connection to the internet, it would be pretty simple to set up the local network in a way that redirects all download attempts to a local server which just gives out 0-second spots or something.
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I think what they are going to try to do is make it so the commercials are quite bearable. That way while yes, you technically could do things to avoid it, it isn't worth the 3 minutes of your time to do it, and you'd probably rather just watch the comme
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The trouble is: that's a content issue, and not a technical one. IBM can dictate the former, but it'll be the ad agencies who ultimately decide the latter. Even if the first ones are gentle and unobtrusive, it'll only be a matter of time before someone decides the medium is ripe for aggressive exploitation, and wham!
It's like the claptrap about selling at a cheaper price. It won't happen. Either the ads are acc
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[...] it would be pretty simple to set up the local network in a way that redirects all download attempts to a local server which just gives out 0-second spots or something.
Which is easy to prevent by further limitations of your rights - if y
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Because people are starting to realise that they don't have to put up with all those ads? DVRs, adblock software, pirate content... I think people are starting to get a sense of how much they're being advertised at - and I think there's growing resentment at the amount of time ads waste, and at the overly intrusive and manipulative nature of their content.
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The correct terminology is never used there - I tried to summarize how the arguments might go.
You want a low to stop me having admin rights on my own computer [...]
No I don't. I don't want a DMCA either, or a restriction on fair use rights.
DVD costs as much as the market will bear
People will buy what costs the least, and they will not give much thought to the freedom they lose. You are right, there is no reason not to hike up the price after people have got
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Fair enough
I wasn't keen on the idea of a broadcast flag, either. Or on this notion of Darl McBride's that with the right lawsuit he might seize the copyrights for Linux. The bad guys don't always win.
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Why do people always repeat this? I've owned three DVD players since they came out. All of them did as they were told and skipped the evil bits.
I buy, rip, and archive. (Score:2)
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Maybe they could offer a discount on your home video purchases if you agree to sit through a short advertisement before the movie is played, or something like that...
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and Big (ford, GM, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, VW, etc etc etc) Logos on cars failed, (don't think they're not there for advertising)
Logos logos everywhere and we're forced to look at them every day. I'm guessing everyone on here has at least 3-5 different logos within their view right now!
Just looking around I see, Nortel, Dell, Microsoft, HP, Compaq, Logitech, Intel, Belkin. All being shoved down my throat, yet at this point it's acceptable, and expected
Massive all right... (Score:1)
Something like this falls well in that category of advertising, although there was really no need to mention fecal matter in the summary...
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What F? Aaah... massive SHIFT... My bad.
Still... That would be a shitty deal.
Ah well... there is always pirated version with no adverts.
Opportunity for profit! (Score:1, Funny)
2 - set up a server of your own, serving 0.5 seconds of not-advertising insterad of all the crappy ads the manufacturer intended.
3 - Use hosts file or simlar cleverness to redirect DVDs to the fake server.
4 - ????
5 - PROFIT!!!
I hope they enforce their patent.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Then again, who cares anyway. TV is already dead, now if DVD's also get killed by gratuitous advertising left, right and center, it will only drive people towards other alternatives (such as iTunes or using bittorrent) even faster.
In fact, this has been happening for a while, what with many DVD-players forcing you to watch the MAFIAA warnings they put in front of each and every movie these days.
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Have you tried checking your fuse box?
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90% of it is. true.
as I posted just a few minutes ago, HDTV changed pbs for me. before, in 'sd' pbs wasn't as interesting. the content was ok but the presentation (standard def) got tiring, at least on any modern lcd/plasma set.
then I tried an HDTV receiver and pbs seemed 'new' to me again. saturday nite they have their usual live music shows (soundstage and austin city limits). that, alone, pretty much justified my HTPC build. those shows are almost entirely spam-free once you clip
Step one (Score:4, Insightful)
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also the purchase of the key would be online directly to the studio... from your DVD menu.. and by DVD the probably mean HD or Blu-ray as those both have internet access required in all hardware but not for all discs... yet. But anyway, this would be like Xbox live, getting you to
Discounted?! (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're going to cram it full of advertising, why aren't you giving it to me for FREE? Making me PAY for it to come with advertising is a good way to convince me to go get it sans-advertising entirely free online.
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In this case the cost will probably go down as the studios would rather you purchase for $10 versus rent for $5. They'll put ads in to try to get the $5 directly from you and cut out th
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Because the cable companies have already proved that the ideots will pay for cable AND watch ads. Remember what cable was new? The idea was that if you paid for the content you got it ad free. Then they found out people did not care about ads. People are adicted to TV and will do ANYTHING to get it, watch ads, pay $100 a month anything...
Customer friendlyness (Score:2)
But who wants to advertise to cheapskates? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is, the ad people probably wouldn't be too happy about only advertising to people who are by definition parsimonious.
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Newspapers make more of their money off advertising than off of the people who purchase it, so the 5% increse you suggest wouldn't come close to covering what they'd be losing. Would you be willing to pay 200% more for an advertisement free Sunday paper? I suspect most people wouldn't.
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Yes, but unlike the DVD, you can skip the ads in the newspaper (or feed them to your wood burning stove and let them heat your house). Ironically, the only time I buy the paper these days is if I want the ads (eg, Black Friday).
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Seems like you'd be able to do something like that with this system. From the summary: "Consumers would be able to purchase these DVDs at a lower price than regular DVDs and pay extra to enjoy their purchase ad-free without having to buy a second DVD."
a glimpse into the present (Score:3, Insightful)
HD DVD - none of mine have ads in front (Score:2)
In fact, they seem to make a big thing out of that "feature"....
Granted I only have about a dozen HD DVDs but I haven't found one to break that feature yet, but I bet some company will. I wonder if Blu-Ray has a similar requirement
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1) rip dvd to disk
1a) did it work? no errors? great, watch it, now.
1b) threw an error? try another opto drive (another brand or model). still errors? return it.
pretty simple algorithm.
similar for my HD tv viewing. I mostly watch PBS HDtv and they have commercials only at the beginning and end. save HDTV to disk (hdhomerun box), run video-redo to select the *middle* part of the show (about 5mins in and about 25mins out). run ad-detecti
Specifying "DVD" seems foolish (Score:3, Interesting)
So this one only covers Digital Versatile Discs. Not HD-DVD, not BluRay, not any theoretical third HD media format.
Hands up, everyone who wants to go out and buy a whole new DVD player, because you don't already have one in the house? Really?
Sure, do it! (Score:3, Interesting)
DVD players with guns (Score:3, Funny)
Re:DVD players with guns (Score:5, Insightful)
2010. The player has motion and thermal sensors. Any heat-producing or moving entity in the proximities will receive a hit of "pain microwave ray" unless they see the full advertising.
2015. Your salary goes directly to the MPAA so they can decide what you are going to buy every month. Nobody remembers what a movie is.
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Advertisers are little kids who think we are paren (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it, little kid asks for something, parent says no. Kid logic kicks in and the kid starts whining about it, bad parenting responds and gives in, proving to the kid that whining works.
Advertisers ask us to buy X with ads, we say NO. Advertisiers logic kicks in and starts forcing us to watch the AD, do we give in? Doesn't really matter, if we don't, they just push harder and if we give in, then IT WORKS, so they push harder to sell even more!
F1 racing used to be broadcast by every country in europe, this was great because in olden days it meant you could choose your preffered commentator (if you live in holland you get English, Dutch, Belgian and German state TV on cable) ALL without commericial breaks. Then came some commercial channels that outbid the state tv offerings, so people stopped watching the feed from that country and just watched F1 in a foreign language. When the Dutch F1 broadcast went commericial I switch to the BBC and when that went commericial I switched to Belgian tv.
When that too went commerercial, I stopped watching F1. The commercial breaks were just too many to put up with.
So what has the F1 organisation achieved? They lost a viewer who at least saw all the regular ads on the racetrack because they wanted more money. So they wanted more and got nothing.
I may be alone, but viewing figures for F1 are down. They blaim it on the races themselves but might it just be that people are sick to death of the show being interrupted constantly for ads?
A similar story can be seen around Dutch soccer. That was broadcast by tradition by the NOS, the state part of state telivision. (I am not a soccer fan so excuse me if I get some details wrong) Years ago a commercial channel was launched (sport 7?) which would be pay-per-view like setup. People didn't subscribe. At all. It was a HUGE FLOP. They had totally miscalculated dutch willingness to pay for soccer matches. They thought they would be rich, they ended up bankrupt.
So the license went back the next year to the NOS. Recently another new station launched, this time "free" to watch, Talpa, and it too made a really big deal out of getting SOME of the rights to some of the soccer matches. Again they thought they would make it big, but people just didn't watch. The way the matches were broadcast was a constant source of irritation among soccer fans and the ads were way to heavy.
End result? Talpa went bust and soccer matches are now more or less back in the old format.
The odd thing? Holland is soccer nuts, so what could go wrong with pushing lots of ads around soccer matches? It works in the US right?
Well, in theory it might be simply a case of too much too soon, you have to remember that it is not that long ago that the only ads were BEFORE and AFTER a match NOT during NOT even during half-time. Even more shocking, on sunday there were NO ADS AT ALL.
This has changed but still, ads during the match itself may have been too much.
A clear case of being too demanding, kids KNOW this, they know when to push it and when they are about to be sent to their room. Advertisers just don't seem to be able to spot the warning signs. They keep pushing and pushing when we already kicked them out of the house to freeze to death.
The reason is offcourse simple, advertisers do NOT care about selling a product with their ads, they are selling ADS!
Every obnoxious ad campaign that drives you nuts HAS ALREADY BEEN A SUCCESS because the ad SOLD!
So us claiming that the ads for MS software on slashdot are a stupid idea are missing the real picture. The ad company that sold those ads, made a sale and that is all that matters. That is why you should never believe any research on ad effectiveness by an ad company unless you believe research on soap by soap companies.
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No, no, no it's just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day, they'll take root - I don't know. You try, you do what you can. Kill yourself.
Seriously though, if you are, do.
Aaah, no really, there's no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan's little helpers. Okay - kill yourself - seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good, seriously. No this is not a joke, you're going, "there's going t
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However I'm afraid you misunderstand what the general publics opinion of ads is: a necessary evil. A minority, if not small minority of people, are not (or almost not) influenced by ads and are able to close themselves from ads (consciously, because subconsciously its much harder). Those people tend to prefer not to watch ads, and some
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Televised soccer just doesn't happen in the US, unless you're talking about niche channels that cater to immigrant/expatriot populations within the US, or the World Cup, which has lately actually been getting some play here. The closest major league soccer team to me went to the finals and not a person that wasn't a soccer obsessive even knew about it, except for a brief me
my predictions (Score:5, Insightful)
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There won't be any ad-free DVDs. At least, not legal ones.
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Except in my house it will be: There won't be any ad-based DVDs (which I will henceforth call Ad-VD).
If the offerings are only Ad-VD's, then I will do without.
But won't the content be online eventually? (Score:3, Insightful)
From an engineering point of view, putting stuff on plastic disks and physically moving them to their destination is a pretty dumb way to distribute content in the face of an Internet.
In the absence of a successfully viable Internet distribution method that ensures some form of copy restriction, the likely reason for movies on DVD is to safeguard distribution rights. But things may change if the current method of funding Internet content through advertising is to expand to include television and movies, much like it does for broadcast TV and radio. So while IBM may hope to gain a market share in DVD advertising, the whole medium may be obsolete in a few years. Just a thought.
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Is it that IBM is predicting this change ... (Score:3, Insightful)
This will encourage consumers to break the law. (Score:3, Insightful)
Disney's Prior Art (Score:2)
Only they charge you a premium for the disks when compared to other studios.
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PAL mind, maybe they change it in the US only.
It's like they want us to plunder ships (Score:2)
With this kind of crap, I'd rather steal the things I want to keep, and rent the things I'm too lazy to bother. What is the point of owning a disc when it is polluted with commercials?
The appeal to the lowest common denominator is destroying everything, because they're too stupid to know any better. That's where the money is. Being sophisticated and affluent counts for nothing these d
DVD or DUD? (Score:2)
Seriously, this patent has both workable and novel parts. Unfortunately the novel parts aren't workable the workable parts aren't novel. Most DVDs already have unskippable commercials on them - usually selling the idea of DRM in the form of piracy warnings. As for downloadable commercials, will it be a requirement to have an internet connection to play a DVD? Throw away your DVD players now - especially the portables!
But, back to my title question
This is new? (Score:3, Insightful)
- it doesn't matter if the kids scratch the disc, I can replace it easily
- I can go straight to the movie after putting the disc in the player
- I don't have to watch the FBI warning (I have one disc that has 3.5 minutes of warnings from various conutries that was unskippable! They really expect me to sit through that?)
With VHS, I could just fast forward through the ads. With DVD, if you are going to make the ads unskippable and thus make me take the effort to correct that, I'm going to just remove the ads altogether from my copy. You lose ground by being too greedy.Don't they do this already? (Score:2)
I know some of my DVDs (the CSI boxed sets for one) have some crap from the film copyright people about "you wouldn't steal an old lady's handbag and knock her to the floor, you wouldn't steal thousands of pounds worth of car before causing large amounts of terror and damage, you wouldn't kill a school full of children in a murderous rampage, so don't copy a load of bits from a disk valued at about £10-£20".
There's also
"On demand?" (Score:2)
What's that, you say? It's the advertisers who are demanding it? It just proves, once again, who the actual customer is for any and all media produced: advertisers. Viewers are just the product being delivered to them.
Can MythTV skip? (Score:2)
I wonder: do MythTV-based players also enforce the "do not skip" segments, or does it have a more consumer-friendly approach?
If it does, I wonder if it would be a legal risk zone to do this to "patent-encumbered ad blocks" (if it can be called that).
DVD player with Ad Blocker? (Score:2)
Sounds Like HBO DVDs (Score:2)
DVD Ads.. the big problem (Score:2)
At least TV ads change.
what im really hoping for out of this (Score:2, Interesting)
i dont buy dvds in general (save for absolute favorites office space, three amigos, band of brothers and the matrix 10 dvd set.. ) , but if i did and was forced to watch a commercial everytime i played the thing I'd be rather annoyed.
Next thing you know theyll start interjecting dvds with commercial interruptions that y
Wow, a cheaper dvd player! (Score:2)
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Bring it on! (Score:2)
I've brought this up before... (Score:2)
I've brought this up before... but it bears repeating.
Purchasing the DVD itself, offsets the cost of advertising.
This means, if I put down money in exchange for the product, I expect that I won't be forced to sit through the ads. We have pay-cable that is supposed to be ad-free. Is it? Not anymore. Paying the additional fee for Showtime, HBO, Cinemax and so on was supposed to be an enhanced, ad-free experience. Now all of those channels are full of garbage advertisements, cutting into the show's playing
Download? (Score:2)
If it was, yanking the ethernet plug while starting up the player would seem to defeat the download.
Silly (Score:2)
This is silly
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Whose demand? (Score:2)