Microsoft's Ballmer: Google Reads Your Mail 264
Anonymous writes "A piece of video has emerged in which Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says of Google, 'they read your mail and we don't.' Evidently, it was part of a lengthy discussion on the future of the software business model, and whether advertising could support free consumer software. Ballmer said it doesn't work, at least when it comes to email. '"That's just a factual statement, not even to be pejorative. The theory was if we read your mail, if somebody read your mail, they would know what to talk to you about. It's not working out as brilliantly as the concept was laid out." Ballmer isn't the first to fire salvos at Google's Gmail privacy policy. Privacy advocates have been critical over the policy almost since the beginning, but the popularity of the service has skyrocketed nonetheless.'"
What a crock (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
If I were google, I'd build up a statistical record of what words come up most often per user which would be real useful in deciding what "the doors" means in context: is an ad for a record shop relevant or Home Depot?
Then, of course, that statistical record would start to become an accurate record of who you are after a while. Anyone know the answer?
Okay, and? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The sky is falling! The sky is falling! (Score:5, Insightful)
E-mails are sent through the internet in fully readable plain text.
You don't want anyone to read your email ? Then encrypt it. Period.
Re:What a crock (Score:5, Insightful)
Gmail (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't need to, they got your PC by the balls (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets be honest here, this is MICROSOFT we are talking about here warning us that Google doesn't respect our privacy. Well they should know shouldn't they? The creators of the least secure OS ever made, the OS that updates itself when we don't want it too, that has a EULA that gives MS the right to snoop around on your system, read whatever it wants and alter whatever it wants and if it destroys anything, too bad. The OS that has been known to phone home until someone found out and then they disable it saying that they couldn't identify you from just your IP and credit card number and every other bit of personal information they could find.
Sure google reads your gmail, we know this. It is how it works, they are very clear about it and if you don't like it, don't use it. It is not like google has a monopoly or anything they have been found guilty of abusing on several continents, that forces you to use their services.
Sometimes I think MS needs to hire a person to increase their public relations. The task would not be complex. He just stands next to the microphone at MS press-release center, and whenever an MS employee walks up to it, he zaps them.
Or put more simple? MS if you want to improve your image, SHUT UP. Do NOT say a single thing for the next year and your image will go through the roof, because you just keep saying these insane things that everyone with a brain can see for the complete and utter lying bullshit it really is.
FUD only works when you got a shred of believability left. If Steve Ballmer proclaimed that the sky was blue, I would doubt that.
What next, Bush calling Blair a bit of thicky who lied to his voters about Iraq? Britney Spears calling the Spice Girls a bad act? Germany commenting on the US tendency to start wars?
Really, MS needs to hire a public relation officer who knows that less is more. The only thing Steve Ballmer should be allowed to say in a year is, Hi, these are the profit figures for last year. Thank you, goodbye.
I wonder if the shareholders can demand he keeps his mouth shut because he is damaging the value of the company.
Re:What a crock (Score:1, Insightful)
Gmail exists now. It catalogs and stores information about your emails now. I personally do not have a problem with this, but saying that MS cannot complain about it because of something they might implement in some future OS at some point in the future is retarded and asinine.
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
Every email provider reads your emails (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Actually (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaks To CEOs strikes again (Score:5, Insightful)
spam filters (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The sky is falling! The sky is falling! (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:2, Insightful)
And technically, it's not spyware, since spyware usually resides on the client's machine.
if google wants to collect data on my account and throw up targeted ads for me why should i give 2 shakes of a donkey's dick about it?
I dunno. Some of us do care. We do not approve of our communications being 'harvested' and used to direct targeted advertising (propaganda) against us.
The whole 'they came for the gypsies...' bromide could be rattled off here.
It;'s not ad hominem to question motives (Score:2, Insightful)
It is perfectly acceptable to agree with concerns about a company's activities, but question the motives of those making the objections. It's like a murderer criticising a drug dealer - it seems the murderer is trying to make himself look better in comparison.
Re:What a crock (Score:1, Insightful)
Rightfully so. The thing is, I would be that the majority of those "who care" are also fairly computer illiterate and have scores of cookies and spyware on their machine they don't know about and probably wouldn't stop going to sites that knowingly track you via cookies even if they where told about it because they enjoy the services of those sites too much.
"Privacy" and "Internet" simply just don't mix. Ask any web developer. There's a lot more hoops to jump through and costs to secure a site than it is to make a public site. Privacy and security where not a consideration when the Internet was formed.
Then ask anyone who uses MySpace, Facebook, or other social networking site if they value privacy on the Internet? They'll probably say "yes". Then ask they why they keep using said social networking sites if they value privacy? It doesn't matter how "safe" they try to make it, it's not a smart idea to use it if you truly value privacy. Get a diary instead.
I guess it's akin to sex. Avoiding pregnancy/disease was not part of the design of sex. We slapped on some fixes such as condoms, the pill, etc, but the only true way to avoid the risk is to not do it. With that said, the only way to avoid the risk for those who value privacy is to not use the internet. But the Internet, just like sex is too damn good to give up (procreation aside). So, we're more than happy to take some risk. Some of us are better educated or simply less lazy and take steps to reduce the risk as far as possible by setting up firewalls, virus protection, research what sites are ok to visit.
Others, simply don't care. They'll visit every website link thrown at them in an email, never bother to secure their computers once they start using them, etc. Oddly, it's kind of scary the parallels I can draw between sex and the Internet... *shudder*
Re:If Microsoft doesn't "read" your mail the same (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if you are right that the technical details or similar enough that the same defenses would apply to both sides (and I'm not conceding that, just not arguing it), it brings one simple thought to mind:
There is a difference between what a private company does and what the US government does. If you don't think that is so, check out that Constitution thing and the great length to which its authors went to describe and limit the powers of government. Then they went on to create that Bill of Rights majig that even though they had just mentioned what power Congress had, further went out to explicitly deny them the ability to do certain other things.
Besides which, I am not under any obligation to use Gmail if I disagree with their scanning my email to serve advertisements; there are dozens of companies that offer basically the same services. If I didn't like any of them, I could buy a domain and set up my own email services.
While I suppose technically speaking one isn't required to use AT&T, that's becoming less and less true in the US as they are allowed to reconstitute their monopoly. And it was done in secret. And they knew it was wrong and very possibly illegal to cooperate with the government in this manner, or they wouldn't suddenly by spending tens of thousands of dollars to lobby Congress to grant them immunity for it.
But really, the bottom line is this: Google can not kill me. Google can not take away my freedom. Nobody can force me to use Google, and they know only what I tell them in some way or another. The government can do all of this. They can, as we have seen, compel others to do the same--certainly with a warrant but in this case even without.
Stepping away from the particular example: If a person lives at home, their parents could read their mail. They could thumb through their drawers. They could read anything that was lying around. This isn't good, but the person may or may not care. Do you think the same level of disinterest would abound if some stranger came into the house to do exactly the same thing? Do you think students don't have different views on other students hearing them talk about things that maybe they shouldn't be talking about, versus teachers doing it?
The actor involved in a situation absolutely does matter even if the situations were otherwise technically identical.
And lest we forget, there are laws involved with what the NSA did. A federal court has struck the program down; while I wouldn't be surprised to see it reversed on appeal to what has become a conservative US Supreme Court, assuming they choose to hear the issue, that is currently the prevailing ruling in at least one federal district. It was struck down not only as an issue of privacy, but one of free speech, and separation of powers, and in violation of the requirements that were passed in the act that established the FISA court to begin with. In other words, it seems that what the NSA did was both illegal and unconstitutional.
(Incidentally, the NSA spying on US phone calls should turn any American's stomach. The NSA and CIA were always intended to be foreign intelligence gathering services, and were specifically enjoined from domestic spying. That was supposed to be done by the FBI according to established legal procedures, i.e. e.g. subpoenas and burdens of proof and evidence.)