Microsoft Seeks Another OS-Level Adware Patent 195
theodp writes "Microsoft has just published a patent application for advertising triggered by sequences of user actions, which describes how to interrupt game playing, music listening, and photo viewing with pop-up ads ('the components may be integrated directly into the operating system'). So will this ad technology get a free pass from Windows Defender?"
Ummm... what? (Score:2)
Can anyone tell me what this picture is supposed to do with "how to interrupt game playing, music listening, and photo viewing with pop-up ads"?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ummm... what? (Score:4, Interesting)
But I see an upside to this technology. If we're lucky, M$ will never get around to implementing these technologies, and thanks to their patents, no one else will be able to implement such invasive advertising tactics.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm completely against software and business model patents, they're the worst of the worst when it comes to patent trolls. But if the upside of a broken patent system is bad business practices don't get implemented, at least there's some benefit.
Actually I think as a community we should become a little more proactive on such things. Let's think up some other invasive technology ideas, things we'd never want to see implemented in the wild, and patent them. And never licence these patents. Keep the evilness out of software by making it defaultly illegal.
Re: (Score:2)
No, if we're lucky Microsoft will implement it and everyone will finally get fed up and ditch Windows for Linux or OS X.
Is it still a rootkit... (Score:2)
Explains the network interrupt problem (Score:3, Funny)
Re:kdawson fud of the day. (Score:5, Insightful)
Opera didn't just one day start showing ads when there were none before.
And ad sponsored software is usually free (beer) software. You cannot sell something, and then add ads to it with a service pack or update.
That's just wrong, and informing us of it is not FUD.
You sir, are an idiot.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:kdawson fud of the day. (Score:4, Interesting)
That argument actually favors MS not putting this in payed windows (or at least, full-price windows)
1. Keeping existing user base is also important to making profit.
2. Gaining user base is important to making profits.
3. Users don't like advertisements, especially when they didn't ask for them.
4. MS is aware of #3 due to their creation of an anti-spyware/adware program.
5. Users tend to move away only when they have active dislike, not when they don't notice somthing.
6. The less than moral advertising agencies on the web have no low to which they will not stoop.
Combining these facts, we can conclude Microsofts next actions will most likely consist of:
1. Full priced Windows will not have these advertisements
2. A reduced price and/or free Windows may be released, with advertisements of varying invasiveness
3. Microsoft will sue any advertising agency violating this patent on Windows, to keep such advertisements off Windows, keeping the user base happier
4. Microsoft may or may not sue agencies violating this patent on other OSes - if they do not, then that's more encouragement for users to use Windows, where they don't have such a hassle.
Re:kdawson fud of the day. (Score:5, Interesting)
The reality, as I see it from under my shiny, crinkly dome shaped lid is that *everything* is subject to being plastered with ads and the computer desktop is not exempt. Someone somewhere will eventually pay enough to get their ad on MS's desktop. period.
I also wouldn't put it past MS to "accidently" serve up ads to those who have paid to avoid them. As we all know, these kinds of things happen all the time. And many people have been "trained" to believe that this is just the way computers are. Sometimes they just don't work the way you tell them to... MS has spent decades teaching people that computers sometimes do random things for no reason and that's apparently totally acceptable to most. So why not the same with the ads?
MS will integrate this technology into the OS directly and then "turn it off" from some server, so even those who have the "ad-free" version of Windows will have the adware running on their system, it will just be checking to see whether it should serve up the ads or not. When that server goes down, it will "default" to serving up the ads until MS gets around to repairing it.
I now doff my recyclable metal head covering.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And even if not, what's to keep MS from auto-oning that, and more than these ads we are discussing now?
Re: (Score:2)
And neither has Windows. It's just a patent application, not a design doc.
"And ad sponsored software is usually free (beer) software."
Not always. I can think of quite a few games with in game ads that are not free.
I have an almost 3 year old at home that runs around grabbing things and shrieking 'mine'. I am reminded of slashdot and all the people running around saying 'free'. Most of the time she gets her way, which doesn't m
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are not interested in a story, fuck off and don't read it, simple.
Why posting a stupid comment slagging off the person who posted it? Unless you have nothing better to do than sit around griping and not doing anything constructive.
If you have something interesting to say, then say it. Otherwise piss off and whine to your shrink instead, at least they are paid to your anti-kdawson drivel.
Adware to interrupt games??? (Score:5, Funny)
"Quick, get to the health fountain.... What the.. My character DIED so I can learn about Diet Caffeine Free Tab??"
Or, alternatively... (Score:4, Funny)
Guiness -- FOR STRENGTH!
{The preceeding message was brought to you by Dikken's Apple Cider, because remember, on a cold winter's day, nothing beats a hot Dikken's Cider.}
Re: (Score:2)
"Oh, you are spamming ads at a series of actions - we own the patent. Here's your cease-and-desist, and we are sueing you for your profits. Have a nice day."
Give how much that could interfere with users using the OS, I can see this as being Microsoft's more likely use. The exception being if the start making advert-to-use OS subsidisation.
The real plan... (Score:2)
I would be surprised if it wasn't a net loss pissing off more than they gain...hey look MS invented the anti-ad
They plan to sell the ads to Sony and Apple!
Re: (Score:2)
Don't take this the wrong way, because you earned that +5 Funny but
This is becoming more and more analogous to product placements in TV shows, movies and yes, video games. They know we're skipping past the traditional advertising so now they're literally embedding it into the product, no way to get rid of it.
Re: OS adware AND games (Score:2)
Than you. Slashdot users settled for "Funny" because there aren't mod codes for "torqued into a pretzel".
But you might have found the next Mac/PC ad.
Mac Gamer: "Quick! Drink the Mountain Dew Game Fuel!" (Click. Character saved.)
WinPC Gamer: "Quick! Drink the Nourishing Fountain!
Re: (Score:2)
I See (Score:5, Funny)
May be something good will come out of this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The day after this patent is approved, Firefox may well be subject to an infringement claim. After all, you have to know something about how Microsoft's next-gen operating-system-generated pop-ups in order to block them.
Re: (Score:2)
Firefox does not block popups generated by Windows. It only blocks popups generated by websites, and even then, it's not really *blocking* them, it's just refusing to run that bit of code.
Website: "Please open a new window, size 400x320, and load http://www.doubleclick.net/advertisement.gif [doubleclick.net] in it."
Firefox: "No. Bugger off."
Unless the popups are coming from the Firefox browser itself (which they won't be, in this patent... it says "OS level"), then Firefox will not be infringing.
My cynicism leads me to disagree. (Score:2)
Can you think of maybe one counter-example where intrusive advertising was forced on the mass market, and the mass market responded by forever rejecting that form of advertising in both that product and any future products?
I can't.
Instead, this will probably just i
Re: (Score:2)
Sure! For me at least, (but hardly the mass market example you are seeking). Public Radio and Television! Better content, no commercials. The only problem is that 95% of the public are too stupid to enjoy commercial free content or comprehend the fact that some of us REALLY don't c
Re: (Score:2)
Celebrity news is generally only interesting when they're spectacularly self-destructing.
Re: (Score:2)
That's OK. Firefox may only have 10-20% of the browser market (I've definitely heard numbers higher than the 10% you
Patent means Nobody Else Can Use It! (Score:3, Interesting)
In this case, I'll make an exception - if MS patents this, then nobody else is allowed to use this kind of annoying interference with user experience
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Other posters are right: lots of customers are so stupid they won't change no
Ideal Ad Opportunity (Score:5, Funny)
Hints of a Free Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a better name than FASS (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My guess is that the more you spend for your copy of Windows in the future, the fewer ads you'll see (or the more ads you'll be able to disable).
I don't like it at all, and I'd rather have my OS be free as in "free" than add supported (or to pay for it and not see
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed. If not for the wealthier markets but maybe for developing countries where the cost of Windows license can't be what it is US/Europe/Asia, etc.
It could also be a move towards a subscription system. Pay your annual Windows fee or not, either way we'll keep updating your box with patches and not worry about WGA. Just watch these ads if you don't want to pay us or while you're trying to straighten out the WGA validation failures.
Re: (Score:2)
Businesses would not pay much for an ad targetting that demographic.
Re: (Score:2)
Run windows with an invalid key.. get ads in your OS.
Run an illegal copy of a game.. get ads in your game.
Download copyright infringing music.. get ads in the middle of your music.
They would then sell their anti-piracy product to other companies... damn.. maybe I have patented that idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Hints of a Free Windows (Score:4, Informative)
This would allow Microsoft to turn Windows into an advertising channel, through which any software or service advertiser could sell ads, based on the kinds of things you do. The user action information could even be more valuable to them than the advertising for market research purposes (it does say that the user action information can be transmitted back to their servers).
Re: (Score:2)
Oh really? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Then use that to keep the others from using it.
Re: (Score:2)
Its about time! (Score:4, Interesting)
Admittedly it would be better described as a revolt... by windows users, but whatever... if MS wants to shoot themselves in the foot they should go for it. And by patenting it the ensure that no other OS will follow suit.
Re: (Score:2)
Are MS-users really that dumb? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm amazed that anyone would think that e-mail and games are worth have an ad forced into their face. But then, I'd rather be solving problems than trough-feeding.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
See the forest and the trees (Score:5, Interesting)
The good news is, this will fail miserably similar to Netzero's old revenue model (when they first started). The bad news is, they have a larger money vault than Uncle Scrooge so they will recover and continue to make idiot ideas...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not necessarily. I tried a couple of those 'free' ad supported ISP deals. I think AltaVista was one. A coupe of main problems with it were that it used far too much screen real estate (about 1/3 of the screen was gone, and that the dialup pipe was far too small to handle the amount of traffic all those big ads sucked up. I had a P133 laptop, and the poor thing couldn't keep up. The pipe and CPU were
Anit-Piracy Use? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsofts current anit-piracy activites (i.e. the Vista Black screen of death) can cause a legitimate customers computer to become virutally in-operable when the malfunction. Imagine the following scenario however.
You can download and install Windows without any sort of licence key for free, but you will need to live with the pop-up ads which effectivly pay for the operating system. You would still have the option of purchasing a licence and thereby getting rid of the ads.
Would this be a legitimate (i.e. not evil) use of this patent?
Not just the good (Score:2)
You think they'll stop there?
Cable TV was supposed to be ad-free too.
(Now I don't watch TV, period.)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I think so.. (Score:3, Insightful)
More likely, the cable model... (Score:5, Insightful)
More likely, you'll have to pay $19.95 to download Windows Ad Supported.
If you want to get rid of most of the ads, you'll have to pay an additional $189.95. After paying this fee, you'll only see the Microsoft Premiere Vendor(TM) ads. And only every other day.
To go completely ad-free, you'll have to buy a Premier Partner Subscription, with a one-time activation charge of $399.95 and monthly subscription fee of $19.95.
Microsoft's Modus Operandi (Score:5, Insightful)
It's funny to see Microsoft use these same tactics over and over again. No matter who the competitor, they leverage their control of the OS to attack their competition.
Does anyone disagree that this patent is an expression of Microsoft applying this formula to supplant Google's dominance in advertising? I'm a little dubious as to its potential threat to Google, but time will tell.
This stinks like the preparations for advertising-supported Microsoft products.
Re: (Score:2)
Imagine the use of this technology to allow MS to overwrite or replace ads? Now Google's ads will be downloaded but no-one will see them. No click-throughs. Reduced (or no) revenue for Google, and most likely no way to stop it from happening. Microsoft have control of the OS code and could easily make it (nearly) impossible to circumvent this. (OK, I know it is only a matter of time, but what I mean is that it would be quite difficult, involve hidden and chang
A benign explanation? (Score:5, Insightful)
It might not be a patent that they intend to use, except in the courts...anything that gets rid of Windows malware helps Microsoft, after all.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe It's Defensive (Score:2, Interesting)
It's a thought.
Whitehat patents? (Score:2)
such software -- giving them ammunition to use against the adware makers.
Riiiiiiiight.... (Score:2)
Me: "Here's $50,000,000 if you'll pop up this little picture when the user does certain things."
Bill: "Yeahhhhhhhhhh...ok, so let's redefine 'evil' here..."
I may be asking too much... (Score:2, Interesting)
How to Beat the Patent Expiration Date (Score:2)
Year 5: Patent B, a method to defeat A and block ads.
Year 10: Patent C, a method to defeat B and show ads.
Year 15: Patent D, a method to defeat C and block ads.
Year 20: Patent E, a method to defeat D and show ads.
Etc.
(Much like the phone company selling: caller ID - blocker - interceptor - blocker - interceptors). This way in any year you've got at least two pairs of ad showers/blockers available and protected under patents.
Also, patent this overall idea as a business
Why Wouldn't People Want This? (Score:3, Funny)
CEO and Christ Figure
of PhilthyLucre.com
Re: (Score:2)
FTFP (p for patent)...The revenue from fees paid by advertisers often allows software providers to offer software applications to users at a reduced price or even free of charge in some cases...
So am I to presume that Vi
Good for them! (Score:2)
MS? The world will be a better place if they push this to the max and beyond.
Yet another blessing... (Score:2)
Every time I read a story like this, I think how glad I am that don't use MS Windows or any other MS product. It's like MS is trying to drive customers away.
If they do this... (Score:3, Interesting)
You're been working to get really close to the objective, finally you've managed to dodge a whole team of really good defenders, you've only got at most two seconds to get the game-winning shot in and...
Some advertising pop-up appears right over your aiming cross and steals your keyboard and mouse input. You watch helplessy as in that moment you temporarily lose the opportunity to dodge the incoming hail of rockets and get killed.
The you read the stupid advert and find it is trying to sell you some stupid product that is totally irellevant to you.
The only (and I mean only) reason I have windows on my PC at all is for DX10 gaming. I dream of the day that DX10 is ported to Wine/Linux in which case I'll gleefully banish Windows from my PC forever. If MS actually make game-interfering pop-ups happen, that day will just come sooner.
Re: (Score:2)
They wouldn't just lurk around waiting for bad moments to interrupt you. The patent covers watching what you're doing, and when you come to something you cannot do, or something you could be doing better, then the ad comes up.
For UT, it might be -- the game doesn't run or runs very badly because you have a crappy card (and it offers a selection of better cards), or your ping is so high that playing online is pointless (and it sends you ads about new ISP or service plans, or 802.11n wireless
Re: (Score:2)
If it's a Microsoft implementation, massive unintended consequences are to be expected.
More kdawsonfud (Score:5, Insightful)
The picture linked shows this in action. The user is processing images. The ad, which is enabled in the software, suggests photo development services of several clients.
From the patent,
Finally, in the screen display shown in FIG. 7, a user has navigated to a user interface 700 for accessing and viewing photos 702 stored on the user device. For example, the user may have downloaded photos 702 from a digital camera and may be viewing the photos in the user display 700. The system may determine based on these user actions that a likely task that the user would like to perform would be to send one or more of the photos 702 to an online photo development center. Additionally, the system may determine that the user does not currently have any particular online photo development service subscriptions. As such, the system has selected and presented a number of advertisements for online photo development services in a preview pane 704 of the user interface 700.
One particular application. Claiming it is 'adware' 'getting a pass from Windows Defender' is nothing but kdawsonfud, not the first and certainly not the last. All it is, an idea, not all that different from the targeted advertising provided by a certain search engine slashbots seem so quick to defend against all claims.
Where's the FUD? Oh, it's in YOUR message. (Score:2)
How precisely is this NOT adware? The user hasn't asked Google or Microsoft or anyone else for photo processing services. The user may not have any intention of asking for information. The user is simply being interrupted in the middle of working with another program with an ad.
interrupted
Google has never interrupted me. No popups. Not even any interstitial ads.
in another program
I'
Consider the source (Score:2)
96% of the time, it's kdawson, which means I can pass it off as idiotic FUD and go about my day.
Thank you... (Score:3)
COME ON. (Score:2, Insightful)
It's made of lose. (Score:2)
Interrupt game play? (Score:2)
Will this even interrupt online game play, where the game network keeps on running while your player gets beat to death and you lose all your treasures?
Could be good thing? (Score:2, Insightful)
The solution is simple (Score:2)
Simple solution, and one I've been advocating for years now.
Never give a Windows box access to the internet. Ever.
Play your games on it, use MS Word, whatever. But if you must hit the ol' intertubes - use Linux. Or Mac OS. Hell, even your C64. ANYTHING but your Windows box.
I see that you are playing blank to do you want... (Score:2)
replace blank with a type of game Like if you are hitting and holding the shift keys a lot then he may say "I see that you are playing pinball to do you want help?"
Interrupt game playing?! (Score:2)
Stay tuned! More on this, right after this break....
footshot! (Score:2)
Of course it will. And expect a fresh dose of malvare on every level your character reaches in your favourite rpg.
Digging deeper ... (Score:3, Insightful)
When I see discussions involving ads, who do I really think of? No, not MS - Google. Sounds to me like MS is patenting stuff that they expect Google to want.
No, MS could never sell a version of Windows with OS-level adware in it (unless they plan to give it away and pay for it with the ads, but I doubt it) so instead I see ammuntion for their upcoming battle against the still-mythical GoogleOS. If Google has to pay MS licensing fees for components of GoogleOS, then MS wins no matter which product people use.
Oy, I think EVERYONE here has it backwards... (Score:2)
They probably patented it so that adware companies cannot legally create such software.
Ad Supported Windows (Score:3, Interesting)
Merely, that when it comes time to buy a computer, you can get Vista Home Basic Ad-supported edition for free, or Vista Ultimate for $500.00 with the ability to make proper backups, support for encryption, and no built-in adware.
It would be an interesting development. How would linux fare in the home market if a version of Windows were "free", and you could install it on as many computers as you wanted without violating the license?
How many people would pay for the 'ad-free' version?
Food for thought.
I don't think Microsoft is being evil. I think its smart, and good business.
I wonder if someone will release an ad supported linux distro, where the ads cover the cost of providing support. So you can get Linux with community support for free, or ad-Linux with, phone support, and remote-access technicians fluent in your language of choice.
It will be FOSS, so anyone who wants to can disable the ads, but doing so of course will terminate your support service.
Re: (Score:2)
Whoever has the patent for interrupting an application or process with another one can claim prior art here, no?
But it's in the operating system! My God!
I mean, can I now write another patent for interrupting a game or program with a telephone call? A tv show? A doorbell signal? Oops, there goes my whole business plan.
Re: (Score:2)
I mean with international treaties, do they need to patent in the us for a technology they don't plan to use there?