China To Deploy World's Largest People Tracking Network 368
hackingbear writes "News.com reports that China is building the largest and most sophisticated people-tracking network in the world, all to track citizens in the city of Shenzhen. This network utilizes 20,000 intelligent digital cameras and RFID cards to keep track of the 12.4 million people living in the Southern port city. The key to the system is the new residency cards fitted with powerful computer chips. 'Data on the chip will include not just the citizen's name and address but also work history, educational background, religion, ethnicity, police record, medical insurance status and landlord's phone number. Even personal reproductive history will be included, for enforcement of China's controversial "one child" policy. Plans are being studied to add credit histories, subway travel payments and small purchases charged to the card.' While I lived in Shenzhen, there indeed were (and still are) plenty of crimes. One of my friend who lived at the 20th floor of a condo building in a nice neighborhood saw an intruder in the middle of one night while he was sleeping. Still, this will clearly raise the fear of human rights abuses. And ... 'one of the most startling aspects of this plan is that this project is mostly made possible by an American company with solid venture fundings.'"
So... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:RFID cards? (Score:5, Funny)
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This is why I am scared (Score:5, Insightful)
People always say: 'I have nothing to hide, so I am not against surveillance'. They don't realize that this might change.
Re:This is why I am scared (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you really think people who say that would change their minds as long as the government could cite some perceived improvements in security as justification for the extra surveillence? I honestly don't think they would. *THAT'S* what's scary.
Re:This is why I am scared (Score:5, Insightful)
No, what's scary is that we sit in the United States talking about saving freedom by fighting terrorists and their supporters in the Middle East when we have an entire country like China who openly tracks and oppresses their people but we stand idly by and let their money pay for our war on the wrong tyrannies. I could go on to say the same thing about Brittan, the United States itself, etc but I won't bother, I'm preaching to the choir.
What is even more scary is that here in the US, and I'm just as much at fault as anyone I chastise, we are letting more and more occur without standing up for what our country was founded on. We call the true freedom fights protesters instead of patriots. We don't rise up in huge numbers against one of the most evil, horrifying, and ironic Presidents that has ever graced our White House. We sit here on Slashdot, huddled around in our offices and our homes, and talk about serious change by use of our free and democratic process but watch as the President threatens to keep our lawmakers in session past their beloved vacation unless they allow him to spy on Americans and their friends and family some more. Even if they had ignored his bullshit, he would have just passed an Executive Order stating he could do it anyway all while continuing to use precious "Homeland Security" resources finding the source of the leak so that he could jail them indefinitly as a terrorist or traitor while he's the one that is by far the leading example. So much for democracy...
We're all a bunch of fucking pussies and that's what's scary.
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We're all a bunch of fucking pussies and that's what's scary.
And the alternative is what? Everyone could end up like me: homeless and monitored post-per-post by slavering account farming trolls demanding "where's the evidence" and screaming "conspiracy theorist" for any statement they make?
All of the talk, the rhetoric, the grand speeches, and the good will in the world is meaningless against the power of the purse strings. As a total population we have no control left over government taxation and spending.
Even if they had ignored his bullshit, he would have just passed an Executive Order stating he could do it anyway
That's the bottom line of it all: "Even if they had...
mod this crap down (Score:3, Insightful)
That's real telling. You aren't being forced to post under the same identity or any identity at all. You aren't even
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Public Service Announcement (Score:5, Insightful)
[ This post is a Public Service Announcement ]
- - NOTE: Stevie is not representative of homeless people in general. For example, the fastest growing group of homeless people are women and children [wikipedia.org] in dire straits, whose homelessness is caused by such events as seeking refuge from an abusive relative, death of a spouse, job loss, or illness. The comments below are specific to Stevie, not homeless people in general.
Stevie blathered:
Why not do something radical, like get a job? Oh, right ... you said you won't take a job except for one that meets your conditions. It has to be in exactly the field you claim to be so good in (though if you're that good, why don't you have a job?), at the pay you think you're worth, with the working conditions you think you deserve, that its the employers' responsibility to "give you a leg up", and that anything else is "dishonest."
Those are your words.
Take some meds, get a haircut, and start applying for a job more in line with your real qualifications, not your inflated delusion of self-worth.
The job rules are simple:
The other rules are also simple:
You're your own worst enemy. You keep complaining, but you post here under multiple accounts, whine, whine, whine about how unfair employers are and how they owe you a job with specific conditions and pay because that's what you went to school for. Grow up - because with your crap attitude, you're not even qualified for a "do you want fries with that" McJob.
You say you don't want to go into any of the programs available for the homeless because you "don't want to be stereotyped with the alcoholics and the druggies". How is anyone who thinks they're "too good" any better? You're actually worse - they at least admit they have a problem, and aren't too full of false self-pride to take advantage of an opportunity for some help.
A lot of people end up homeless due to misfortune, divorce, job loss, medical bills, addictions, bad decisions, whatever. This doesn't make them "bad people" - but your claim that you don't want to be "stereotyped" as "one of them" shows how you think yourself so much better.
Stop thinking you're better than people who had the guts to take jobs that you would consider "beneath you." You're not. You can't even troll properly, FFS.
And stop complaining about anyone stalking you; remember how you pulled this BS a couple of weeks ago [slashdot.org] ... if anyone was stalking, it was you, and this isn't the first time you've pulled this crap on someone. You're a hypocritical dickhead [slashdot.org].
[ This has been a public service announcement. Thank you for your patience ]
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If you're suggesting that China is more oppressive than Baathist Iraq was, then one must conclude you know virtually nothing about either.
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Well, here is a bit of news for you: It is not about freedom. The US administration does not care to establish freedom somewere else, it is too busy removing it at home. And it is also not about terro
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Not to be a grammar Nazi, but I think you spelled "defaced" wrong.
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I live in Germany and we still got democracy here, but who guaranties me that this will be like that forever? China's use of total surveillance should be a warning to us all, what can happen too us, too.
People always say: 'I have nothing to hide, so I am not against surveillance'. They don't realize that this might change.
My friend, as someone's sig puts it (my apologies, I can't remember whose sig it is): "You have 4 boxes to be used in this order: soap, jury, ballot, ammo".
I assume, perhaps erroneously, that Germany is very cautious of things like this because of Hilter's usurping of power; we Americans have not learned this lesson yet, and are in a much worse position. Governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around. I don't think the German people would take very kindly to RFID chips, so you
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China has a tradition of centralized, bureaucratic, government that goes back to the Ch'In Empire ca. 200 BC. The right way to approach this question is to look at your own history and culture.
Re:This is why I am scared (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is why I am scared (Score:4, Funny)
Government tracking religion and ethnicity? Bad (Score:3, Informative)
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I don't trust the State. Never have, never will. Technology like this has SO many abuse potentials designed right into the system. It's not a question of if it'll be abused, it's a ques
Old News (Score:5, Funny)
What's so startling? (Score:2)
I'm sure if there are any problems or abuses, we're not likely to hear about it for a long time.
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- Chairman Mao
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Weird... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Weird... (Score:5, Funny)
In China, people have to sleep with at least one eye open.
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In China, they're so afraid of crime they even *dream* about it.
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Sleep with one eye open (Score:2)
It's going this way... (Score:5, Insightful)
personal reproductive history (Score:2, Troll)
This is creepy. In that documentary called China Blue [pbs.org], it was stated by one of the factory owners that most of it's workforce is ignorant and too stupid to think for themselves. They really regard people there as illiterate simpletons. I don't know how well educated the population is, but it's a pretty crappy attitude and kind of epitomizes the human rights problems in China.
I wonder how lon
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China should be encouraging them all to have 3, then when the population of North America is cut in half in ten years, they do the same thing the Europeans did.
Birth control and feminism are to thank for that. If only we could turn rats and cockroaches on to these ideas... they'd exterminate themselves in a few generations. Just like we've been doing.
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Mod above should get out more before ranting. Lifestyle changes do have consequences and there is no point blaming small numbers of feminists for the situation where in western countries you need two working parents to have a high quality of life for a small family.
Above wasn't a quote (Score:2)
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Well in China they did have one. They were screwed with resource shortages and a government that really wasn't capable of increasing the resources but was capable of forcing people to limit the number of children they had. It wasn't really absurd there - they way they dealt with it was unpleasant but in hindsight more moderate than earlier policies that killed a lot of people outright. That's probably why people accepted it.
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This is a tricky one. The problem is very, very real. However the solution is not possible in a free society today. Maybe mandatory contraceptive implants for every child, along with the usual vaccinations. Not medically possible at the moment and would still be a huge reduction of personal freedom.
So
goldfish (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, that's nothing like Australia, Britain or the US at all. Corporations and governments treat us not as ignorant, illiterate simpletons but as ignorant, illiterate simpletons with short memories. It's hard to believe we have it so good.
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It's well known that the biggest problem with democracy is people. The problem is that as yet, there's no better solution.
better than the other way around (Score:2)
That applies in many ways. Who wants to be watched? Assuming the supplier's government has a backdoor, do you want one government or two governments watching you?
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The path to world slavery (Score:4, Insightful)
2) Dumb down the population (remove the individual). (Tick)
3) Monitor & Track. (Tick)
4) Step 1.
5) Use data to make Step 2 more effective.
6) Step 3.
7) MIND CONTROL.
Now you and your friends live in luxury with 6 billion slaves at your dispense. What a warm fuzzy feeling
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2. Ban altered states of mind.
The rest takes care of itself.
It could happen here... (Score:2)
For us Americans, there should be two fundamental questions on our minds: Who is this company, and how do we stop them?
made possible by an american company??? (Score:2, Interesting)
god i'm sick of this bullshit. seriously, stop trying to blame the white man for EVERYTHING. this whole scheme is made possible by communist control freaks in china. they would make this happen with or without this company.
i mean come on, now it's america's fault when china does fucked up things? i'm not even american and even i'm sick of the retarded american bashing.
Re:made possible by an american company??? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not America's fault, it's the American company's fault. I think you're being a bit oversensitive - that sentence doesn't bash America, it raises alarm that our corporate community is knee-deep in China's systematic oppression of their people.
Yeah, the oppression will continue regardless of American companies' involvement, but that doesn't justify being involved.
but the american company isn't the point (Score:2)
the point should be solving problems in the world. on a case by case basis, sometimes the usa DOES deserve blame. but for some people, that's not the point. for them, the poin
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I'm not criticising the US in any way, nor does the article. Should China be held accountable for the oppression of its people? By all means yes. It is a terrible tragedy what is happening to political and religious dissidents in that country, and as a Chinese I feel a great deal of empathy towards the people who endure that regime (which, thankfully, I'm out of).
So while criticism of China's policies should rightfully be directed at China, companies from any other country complicit in the government's cr
Can't blame them but can stop them doing it to us (Score:2)
It's on a lot of tshirts - think globally, act locally. Ultimately people overseas do not care a lot about you no matter where you are so that all you can do is complain to the locals that do these things for them. Also there is the fallout of people that do nasty staff overseas eventually come home and may do it locally. For instance (in an extreme example) the USA is in no way resp
Huge correction to the title (Score:3, Insightful)
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Big Brother Livin Large in 2007 (Score:5, Insightful)
Keeping track of 'minor purchases'?? Whose business is it that I buy a pack of cigarettes or some condoms or whatever? Why is the government so interested in this petty stuff unless it intends to use this info against me someday? Why does the government have cause to know who I hang with, who I sleep with?
How long until cards like this are used to replace hard currency in order to 'fine tune' the economy and strip the last vestiges of privacy? How long until having legal tender in your possession is considered a crime because 'only terrorists have untracable cash'?
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we ain't going back. power is catchy and all governments want a piece of that action, don't kid yourselves.
mcnealy was right - the age of privacy is gone (RIP).
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Computer,state the last known location of Dr McCoy (Score:3, Insightful)
CEOs weeping (Score:2)
Why go through all that trouble? (Score:4, Interesting)
Store it on the SIM card of the citizens cellphone and remove the OFF switch from the phone (force companies to only manufacture/import cellphones without OFF switches). Make the phone send an SMS to the nearest police station with the text "ARREST ME PLS" if the users neglects to charge it.
In that way, the existing cellphone network can be extended to tracking all citizens 24/7 using their SIM and EMEI id's (no need for upgrades anywhere except logfile data storage), no matter where they go. It even works without setting up new RFID scanners and without buying fancy new tech from contracting companies.
How many places do you think such a system is already in place? Do you always carry your cellphone with your without thinking about it? Do you ever turn it off?
(Hint: several hundred western cities in both the US and EU have near-similar systems for "polulation movement research" which they claim only saves anonymous data. Yeah right!)
- Jesper
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Because they can... (Score:2)
How far are WE from this really? (Score:2)
Okay... yes... I am paranoid but sometimes I connect the dots pretty well too. It's never a good idea to blindly trust that your liberties will be protected by the government. Hell, now days we have to protect our liberties FROM the government.
I think that the destruction of the middle class is going to leave a lot of people r
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Consider jumping to this post:
Re:Why go through all that trouble? [slashdot.org].
There is a good explanation there
- Jesper
CP dating! (Score:2)
America Wanged (Score:2)
If
finally a clear case for IPv6. (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:2)
Seriously, people, look at this. This is what is possible today. Even more will be possible tomorrow. And with all this terror-meme going round, this is what every right-wing politician wants. Pity the states that have only right-wing left, like the US. Time to think about whether you want to live under such conditions. And to start doing something about it if you do not want to.
i'm getting a migraine (Score:2)
this has nothing to do with the security of the populace, and everything to do with making them afraid of ever doing anything to threaten the government. thats its only value. your credit rating? (by the way, those of you who don't live somewhere like new york might find it in
Mark of the Beast? (Score:3, Insightful)
There are only a few steps left to make this the mark of the beast. making all purchases possible on the card/chip and to implant the chip... and all that technology is already here...
Revelations 13:16-17
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark..."
Obligatory link to Brin's "Transparent Society". (Score:4, Insightful)
In a few years people are going to be taking advantage of Google's storage to upload everything pretty close to 24/7 from their phonecam to broadcast on Google's video servers, and you'll be be able to mashup this with Google maps street level and redirect it to your VR-of-choice and it'll be just like being there (if you look past the lag and compression artifacts), except with a rewind button.
I can think of worse guardians of the transparent society.
Well, when it becomes feasible (Score:3, Insightful)
"It will never happen here..." said the skeptic... (Score:3, Interesting)
And what if this works? What if no "Beast" arises from the sea? What if this is really a good idea and they benefit and no evil Neo-Mao rises to enslave them? THEN what is to stop it from happening here? Anybody??? If "U.S. companies like IBM, Cisco, H.P., Dell**" are in on this, what is to stop it from happening "here"?
*He didn't realize the pun he unleashed here
**Say, we're missing a OS company in this list. Any volunteers?
Re:Go China! (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, wherever something like this happens, it's something to be wary of. Given China's track record I don't think there doing it just for the fun of it.
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new york city and london will have it soon enough
People Tracking & RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
With RFID chips already embedded in your Passport and the ability of the Authorities to locate your cell through triangulation [findarticles.com], the potential already exists here.
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Anonymous Coward may be correct;
With RFID chips already embedded in your Passport and the ability of the Authorities to locate your cell through triangulation [findarticles.com], the potential already exists here.
Except that isn't actually true. Right now if I were to call 911 for the fun of it, they wouldn't triangulate, they would use the built in GPS chip to tell them where I am. They might also use triangulation to nail it, but they would primarily rely on the GPS. My last phone had one as well. I could switch it off, but for some reason the reception improved significantly if I left it on.
For legitimate safety reasons cell phones come with the chips now. As to whether or not they can be dialed up randomly like
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Whether they can be individually zeroed in on is another matter, but GPS would be far more accurate than triangulation.
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I don't think many Americans carry their passports around - if they even have one. Even if they did, the passport is constructed so that you can't read the RFID chip when it is closed.
Re:Go China! (Score:5, Insightful)
Spy cameras everywhere, lots of evidence for selective enforcement should that be convenient to anyone in power, but instead of having everyone looking out for each other with this newfound access to timely information, it's just collected and stored to be used as a weapon against individuals later.
The people who live in NYC and London should be demanding that all footage from those cameras be publicly accessible, instantly and indefinitely. They should be willing to kill for it if necessary, because they will be utterly ruled by it if they don't.
Stalin himself never had it so good.
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That's not to say we won't have a problem in the future. But as of right now I'm not too worried about it in NYC.
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The scary thing here isn't the video cameras, it's the RFID tags. No car thief is going to carry an ID to let themselves be tracked. This is to track the citizens, see what they are doing; to know what their patterns are, to determine if they are subversive. What other purpose can there be?
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No car thief is going to carry an ID to let themselves be tracked.
Or, just as likely, they'll steal some other poor schmuck's tag to lead the police down the wrong path.
They will have to have some really cutting-edge data mining stuff to get this to work well as a subversive citizen finder... it would be fascinating if it weren't so chilling.
Still, I bet that it ultimately just gets used to undermine people who've made an enemy within the political organization that have access to this information.
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10 Reasons to Track the Largest People (Score:5, Funny)
"China to Deploy World's Largest People Tracking Network"
- We can now avoid embarrasing mistakes, like calling Greenpeace to help remove a "beached whale" that's just a "Large Person" sunbathing
- They take up too much space in checkout aisles - if we can track them, we'll know when its safe to shop
- You want to track which "all-you-can-eat" they're hanging out at tonight - so you can avoid it
- Tracking them will avoid conflicts in lineups because "they smell funny"
- Once we track them, we can make sure they're wearing their backup alarms
- We can implement "no-fridge exclusionary zones" for their own good
- In an emergency, we can locate them quickly, and line them up to use them as a defensive shield against, say asteroids
- Knowing their history, we can avoid buying cars they once owned, with their associated suspension and steering problems
- We can enhance safety by making sure that any elevator refuses to take on more than one "Huge Person"
- Instead of charging everyone more for junk food, we can only tax "Huge People"
Go, China!Re: (Score:2)
Re:Go China! (Score:4, Insightful)
Surveillance isn't like a debt that can be cancelled out by the other side paying it too - if both sides are under surveillance, both sides LOSE.
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Look at your cell phone. It probably has a video camera and the ability to upload video clips.
You can now buy cell phones that do real-time video conversations. Get used to everyone being under surveillance by everyone else. Its the real-world verison of "Specks" - a recurring idea from sci-fi where people wear glasses that constantly relay what they're watching to servers, and they can flag anything they see for attention, so don't piss off that old lady on the park benk looking at you funny!
Of course,
Re:Go China! (Score:4, Insightful)
Some people believe in a "Panopticon"-style world in which anyone may watch anyone else - the future of privacy. I've seen several posts on that topic here. But it's a utopian dream, as impractical as Communism. It is inevitable that the upper ranks of society will obtain privacy for themselves. You might be able to spy on your neighbours, but you won't be spying on the police, the President, or the local mob. Like Marxism, the idea looks good on paper, but will lead to total disaster whenever it is implemented.
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Re:Go China! (Score:4, Funny)
Address: Mom's basement
Work History: Slashdotter, Blogmaster, Burgerflippermeister
Educational Background: Wikipedia
Religion: Jedi
Ethnicity: Nerd
Police Record: Uber 1337 h4xx0r
Medical Insurance Status: Morbid obesity
Landlords Phone Number: Mom
Personal Reproductive History: NULL
Re:Just curious (Score:5, Insightful)
but what kind of infrastructure does
It doesn't take much people to monitor a system like this at all. Computers do most of the screening work to point out the small selection of people who deserve further manual investigation. The quality of the algorithms is becoming such that people will eventually not be required to intervene. The biggest problem is finding space for all the computers and data storage.
I don't think Americans would stand for it.
Americans will stand for anything. Somebody will tell them that it is a way of reducing petty crime, protecting the children, making paying for groceries easier, etc. Nowhere will it be mentioned that the entire reason for the system is to track your asses. The dumb cattle majority of people there (and around the world) will buy the lies hook, line and sinker. the masses will only work out that it's about tracking their asses when it's too late to do anything about it.
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Ok, let me guess
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That's easy: total surveillance, because it allows the people who control it to get away with crimes and frame those who they fear. Once a system is believed to be perfect proof of anything, those who can edit it become all powerful.
Every law we have to restrain or control the police or government was enacted for a reason, and that reason was abuse of powers by police and governments. Laws like that don't just fall out of trees.
TWW
Re:Catch 22? (Score:5, Interesting)
I think surveillance creates a sense of false security for many less-informed people. So they demand more surveillance. The government is only happy to provide it. So are the companies contracted to implement the necessary technology. That is why the use of surveillance is increasing - even though there is clear proof it does not prevent crime (or terrorism for that matter!).
I think the "Dispair inc" poster with the group or parachuters says it all: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups". We did. Cameras on every corner and multiple RFIDs on every citizen appears to be the result.
- Jesper
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Large-scale surveillance in China is more threatening than surveillance in Britain, they said when told of Shenzhen's plans. "I don't think they are remotely comparable, and even in Britain it's quite controversial," said Dinah PoKempner, the general counsel of Human Rights Watch in New York. China has fewer limits on police power, fewer restrictions on how government agencies use the information they gather and fewer legal protections for those suspected of crime, she noted.
And in related news, UK government officials admitted they were green with envy over China's plans. "We are falling behind the police state curve!" cried out the Minister of Justice.
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I seem to remember that a lot of the "lesser crimes" (such as traffic offenses etc.) are solved, while the more serious crimes (robbery, murder, grand theft auto, etc) are virtually unchanged - and in some areas significantly higher than before cameras were installed.
Criminals simply seem to adjust to the new rules of the game. While authorities are all but drowning in the sheer mass of information and video they are collecting.
- Jesper
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That argument would need that surveilance actually reduces crime. There are by now several british studies showing that it may not actually do so. It may not even shift crime to an other area. In addition there are other, proven methods to reduce crime. One is improvement of living conditions.
There