Vista is Watching You 458
greengrass writes "Are you using Windows Vista? Then you might as well know that the licensed operating system installed on your machine is harvesting a healthy volume of information for Microsoft. In this context, a program such as the Windows Genuine Advantage is the last of your concerns. In fact, in excess of 20 Windows Vista features and services are hard at work collecting and transmitting your personal data to the Redmond company."
Vista's biggest enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
Tagged as paranoia? (Score:1, Insightful)
Is it paranoia if the OS really *is* sending tons of data to Redmond?
Is it slander if it's true?
How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop?
Just WTF *is* the cream filling in the middle of Hostess snack cakes????
Re:Vista's biggest enemy (Score:3, Insightful)
Get used to it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Those who thrive in this environment (and in this case, thrive means are able to navigate it with the majority of their private information private) will be those who understand, accept, and deal with it.
Devil's Advocate (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is stepping over some big lines here.
Something else comes to mind... what about users still on dial-up? Won't the transmission of this user information completely clog the line?
Re:Vista's biggest enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
Negro, puhleeese (Score:5, Insightful)
Good grief, I hate Microsoft as much or more than the average Slashdotter, but most of TFA is just alarmist FUD.
Re:Vista's biggest enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure you have some folk who do, but considering the supermarket "loyalty cards" (and it isn't just in the US of course), the various voting things (e.g. who's the hottest "singer"?), using plastic cards to pay for everything and so on...
Meh, I'm sure you get my point, which is that only some people (around the world), take their privacy as seriously as you seem to think.
The core question remains (Score:5, Insightful)
Usually I don't mind. They probably sell that information (not about me, but about their "user base") to someone to make some money that way, since I don't pay for the honor to use their program for free. No problems there.
A problem arises when said data is transmitted without my consent. Without me even knowing that it is being sent. Am I supposed to trust a company that it isn't going to do shady business with my data when they're sneaky about it?
Now, I'm not saying MS does. But, seriously, why the cloak-and-dagger approach? Just tell the user "Vista is now gonna send MS the following information about your system, anonymized so it can't be tracked, and we want it to see what hardware platforms our system should run best on. Thanks for your co-op."
What's wrong about that? If someone doesn't care, heck, one more click on "accept" isn't going to be even noticed in Vista. And if someone does care, the smell of fish is not gonna hit his nose when something like this is being exposed.
Article Breakdown (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not good. Probably only used to invalidate your copy of Windows once you change the motherboard.
This service asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL.
Again: if a device is plugged in, a dialog first comes up and asks the user if he/she wants to search the internet for a driver. And the service NEEDS the name of the device to search for one.
That's because you ASK for it. Similarly if I Google a problem, Google gets my search query. But they're collecting stats on hardware, and that's pretty normal for an OS company. After all, it'll help them build a better OS (not likely though).
Just the extensions?? Big deal. Here's a partial list for my computer: *.raw, *.mov,...wait, this person has some Apple format on their computer...DESTROY. Can they use this information to help with vendor lock-in? Maybe.
Maybe this is going a bit off the deep end. What I install is my business and not theirs.
This asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL. Why are they even including this in this article?
This asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL. So, if you register, it receives the data. No surprise there.
Makes data available to services that contact Microsoft does not mean this data will be SENT to Microsoft. FUD.
If this is actually true, then it's too far. Direct monitoring of the sites!
Too far. But I'm not sure what a Peer Name is now. And I doubt it's very useful.
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:5, Insightful)
So... some reasons why this is probably a bad idea:
1. If they discover that you are running non-legit software, they can track you down. (And considering that any such analysis will always make mistakes, even users of legitimate copies of software should be worried.)
2. If MS's servers get compromised (or a bug is found in the "secure transmission" protocol), third parties can obtain your data. Depending on exactly what is being sent, this could be a privacy breach, security breach, or both.
3. Having services constantly establishing these connections is a security risk. Malware or viruses may be able to exploit it as a point of infection. Or, they may be able to use it as a means of spreading copies of themselves, or secretly transmitting information back to a third party. Every unnecessary service (from a user perspective) is a security breach waiting to happen.
4. Having code running that doesn't explicitly benefit the user is a waste of resources. This means overhead on your computer and overhead on your internet connection.
5. The EULA seems to state that they can change the terms as it suits them. This means that they can push updates through Windows Update that increase the scope of the data obtained. Perhaps they eventually decide to drop the anonymous clause. I don't think signing over so much freedom and privacy is a good idea, regardless of how "well-intentioned" the recipient of your rights claims to be.
And finally, there is the general "bad vibes" I'm sure we're all getting about this. It would be one thing if it were an additional feature that you could turn on if you wanted to. Something like "Help MS improve the quality of service by sending reports on how your software is running. This voluntary service is under your control, and only human-readable summaries will be sent, which you can inspect before they are sent. Do you wish to participate? Cancel/Allow"
Instead we get something like: "MS reserves the right to monitor your computer and transmit information to MS HQ. We can change these terms at our leisure. By using any of these features, you implicitly agree to this monitoring."
This is not an act of charity on MS's part. This is part of a plan to obtain information that they want, without customers noticing it is happening. That can only be a bad thing.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you be able to charge microsoft for the bandwidth used by this unwanted feature?
Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)
X-ray machines, Jet engines, and more all report operating conditions and usage information back to the manufacturer. Microsoft is doing this anonymously to improve the products. I have no problem with this. They aren't sending back any "personal information" like credit card numbers or even identification information.
There are plenty of reasons you still don't want this happening. Consider...the war on terror continues and somebody gets caught up in the Feds dragnet. They press charges, but don't quite have the evidence they need. The defendant's lawyer (and the ACLU) is probably going to get him to walk unless they can find something. Little known to all, the President (or these days, the VP) issues a secret Executive Order that strips "terror suspects" of the right to attorney-client privilege. The Feds show up at Microsoft's door with several court orders. They order the tracking of the suspect, and they provide the IP addresses of computer in the offices of the defendant's attorney and the ACLU and demand that Microsoft install a backdoor patch to download documents off that computer. Of course the download will be indiscriminate...maybe this lawyer will also have you as a client, and your files will go to the Feds also.
Far-fetched? Perhaps, but certainly plausible. Suppose it's not the American government, but the Chinese looking for a few journalists or Falun Gong members. Still far-fetched? Which way do you think Microsoft will go when the choice is a few journalists in prison or losing access to the Chinese market?
Privacy is always good.
Re:Get used to it. (Score:1, Insightful)
Your missing the point. Have you learned nothing from what happened with iTunes? This isn't just about Microsoft, once again the masses get tunnel vision. This is about EVERYTHING. Going forward, as more and more infrastructure is interconnected, as we depend more and more on online services, any true notion of privacy is pretty much moot. You can disable services all you want, and it will make folks who are collecting data very happy, because you are focused on the obvious.
I know I'm sounding tin foil hat'ish here, but that's not where I'm coming from. Simply that we have to understand the world in which we live (truly understand, not just what gets fed to us), and then take whatever measures we deem appropriate to maximize our wellbeing within that world.
This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:5, Insightful)
And it's not just Microsoft doing it.
This "phone home" crap is the single biggest thing that is driving me to consider open-source alternative operating systems and software.
The second biggest thing is that it seems more and more that with commercial software every time I install an "upgrade" it is really an upgrade for the
It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.
doubt it (Score:5, Insightful)
Either that, or they're just using their pool of hundreds of millions of users with tens of millions different hardware/software configurations in order to collect bug data.
That's really the most obvious and the most likely answer.
1984^H^H^H^H 2007 (Score:2, Insightful)
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.... and now Spyware is Security.
Re:Negro, puhleeese (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Nothing new (Score:3, Insightful)
And X-ray machines and jet engines are multi-purpose devices that store gobs of personal information?
They aren't sending back any "personal information" like credit card numbers or even identification information.
I'd like to know how you've achieved that conclusion given the fact that you and just about everyone outside of Microsoft lacks meaningful information as to what *is* being sent, in what form, and how.
Someone long ago said "Doubt is not a pleasant state of mind, but certainty is a ridiculous one." But no worries, right?
Re:I work in an FDA-regulated environment,... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tagged as paranoia? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it? I saw nothing in the article that actually tried to attempt to see what information, if any, was being sent. All I saw was a really paranoid reading of an EULA.
Is it slander if it's true?
Just because something is in a license agreement doesn't mean its happening. People said the same thing about Windows update. The truth of the matter is it sends what OS / service pack your running and you get a list of updates available, which then is parsed by your computer to see if it needs them or not. Also, what updates are needed but not installed is reported back. Not exactly terrifying data.
Re:I work in an FDA-regulated environment,... (Score:5, Insightful)
Everything has to be considered a security risk from your position, otherwise you're not doing your job
Blame the EULA (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as companies write such ridiculous EULAs, it is only natural that people will react this way to them. Frankly the only reason that more people are not scared and appalled at EULAs is that no one actually reads them. Probably many of the things claimed in EULAs would not hold up in a court of law. But if all the terms of the EULAs were actually legally enforceable, then it would not be at all paranoid to be concerned about them: the terms are, after all, very consumer-hostile.
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:5, Insightful)
All I can say is I'm glad I don't have anything important like games to dictate what OS I use. Yes, in some respects I'm being a troll/sarcastic here, but also games appear to be _the_ driving force for technical people here on slashdot to tie them to Windows. Other less technical users simply don't know any better.
Maybe I'm just an eletist or whatever, but I simply don't need the headaches that come with Windows. I had a couple of crappy jobs back in the 1999-2000 era that required Windows, but other than that I've been Windows free since 1997 or so both personally and professionally.
To me, the OS is just software. Just like I have a choice in shells, window managers, desktop environments, web servers, whatever. For many reasons, technical, stylish, reliability, ease of use, ease of maintenance, etc, I simply can't find a reason to use Windows.
If games were that important to me, I would buy a console, or two or three.
Then, of course you won't mind this... (Score:2, Insightful)
Hello, we're with the police. We'd like to install these realtime video cameras and microphones into all the various rooms of your home. The information gathered will only be used to make sure your home is run the smoothest it can, and that no criminals can get in to do you harm, or in case a fire or storm damage or medical emergency then we can send the appropriate first-responders right away.
Re:doubt it (Score:4, Insightful)
Sending an IP address and the name of a web browser to an update server is hardly something to be concerned about. Microsoft's forays into advertising, on the other hand, are certainly something to keep an eye on. For the moment I'm a paying customer, but if advertisers become the paying customers and I'm simply a target for advertising, then I'll worry.
Re:doubt it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Vista's biggest enemy (Score:2, Insightful)
"Americans take their privacy too seriously to ignore this if this becomes public. "
Sorry but WHAT????
Americans probably have the lowest privacy concerns of any modern first world country
You have no real laws that protect your data being sold without your knowledge
No real penalties for mishandling (aka losing) peoples personal data
People buy from their local shops and supermarkets and give hand over details like their tel number/address to the shop assistants without question (and for those who have not been to the US not talking "loyalty cards" here which are bad enough, mean "What's you telephone number Sir?", first time I encountered that I was like "WTF?!?!?" and when I refused they did not know what to do because no one had ever refused before and they did not know how to bypass that point on the till to close the sale)
Hell your data protection laws are so weak they had to change European law to create an exclusion for the transmission of airline passenger info to the FBI because otherwise virtually no personal information about people in the EU is allowed to be transmitted to the US unless already connected with a crime because the rest of the view the US laws as a joke
The average American could not give a toss about their privacy
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:4, Insightful)
Phone home is DRIVING you? To CONSIDER open-source? And you are considering these as ALTERNATIVEs? Sounds to me like you are squarely locked up in proprietary land, and that, generally, you like it there. But you need to fit in around here, so you use words like "crap" to add weight to your otherwise meaningless stanzas.
Put your money where your mouth is. If you like the open stuff, use it. Otherwise, you're just so much hot air, and heated air comes rather cheap around here.
And here's a great example: It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.
Just how secure are the MS servers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if you decide that you believe MS 100% and trust that they won't quietly change the terms in a year or two (a right they do reserve) to allow them to collect personally identifying information AND sell, it, just how secure are their servers? Any chance their admins will sell the data on the side for obscene amounts of cash?
Does any unique but not personally identifying information also appear in personally identifying Word documents? What is their policy if the NSA wants a copy? What is their policy if Bill needs a favor from Congress?
Funny, my Linux boxen don't collect any information at all and still they run nice and stable and get their updates as needed.
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Multiplayer games and game modes (consoles are finally starting to catch up)
2) Modability and expandability of the titles
3) Better graphics (if you're willing to plunk down the cash for the hardware)
4) Unique and indie titles
Now most PC games can be played on Linux through a DirectX emulator, however there is almost always a performance hit, and often it's as bad as half your framerate going down the drain...the games are just heavily optimized for Windows (most Mac games are the same way...~20% performance hit on the same machine if you use OSX instead of bootcamping into Windows).
What's become worse is that MS is now requiring Vista for some games...games that don't even require the newer DirectX 10...I've had to make my gaming PC dual-boot into Vista now just for Shadowrun. Halo 2 'requires' Vista as well...and it has awful Xbox 1 graphics...it sure as hell doesn't need Vista to run properly. And what's worse is Vista will make most games suffer 10%+ performance hits as well (hence the dual booting).
Bottom line...serious PC Gamers are stuck with Windows.
Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm about to put together a new PC. I fully expect to dual-boot between XP (not Vista) and some flavour of Linux. As with others here, games are the major reason for installing XP at all, with multimedia support a close second. So, I went along to that page with great interest.
Unfortunately, all it tells me is that pretty much every game I want to play on the new machine is completely unplayable under Cedega. As with so much of Linux history, the answer seems to be "it's making progress, but it's just not good enough yet".
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:3, Insightful)
The genre of game is more the deciding factor for me. Some genres, such as first-person shooters, convert very well to consoles, and indeed many of the best recent titles in this genre have started out or remained exclusively on one console or another. However, many genres naturally have an interface that is too complicated for your average console games platform. Can you imagine controlling a complex real-time strategy title like Supreme Commander via a little handheld unit with a few twiddly things and pushy bits on it? How about a role-playing game where you need to give detailed orders to many party members with many specific abilities?
Incidentally, the Microsoft "Vista-only" games have already been cracked, and apparently operate just fine on XP. It's just a PR stunt, which is probably why (as I've argued before) no-one except Microsoft is making Vista-only titles, or even prioritising Vista for games development. The gamer market isn't as stupid as Microsoft seems to think, and the reviews of Vista as a gaming platform are slating it on both compatibility and performance grounds. That means gamers aren't upgrading, and the developers in such a high-pressure business are always going to follow the market.
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey mods, parent isn't a troll, he speaks only the truth, if a little bit more vehemently than your politically-correct minds can tolerate.
The funny thing with those who say that "if my favorite game ran on Linux, I'd be there" is that their favorite game is never one of those that already runs on Linux; I won't enumerate the quality commercial games that run natively on Linux, it's getting old already. But the thing is, you want support, put your money where your mouth is, as the parent said.
Who do you trust? (Score:3, Insightful)
The bottom line is you have to transmit personally identifiable information to Microsoft to keep Vista running properly. Unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths to sanitize every bit of outbound data.
I know my ISP is keeping records of where I visit on the internet. But if that really worried me I could tunnel through to a secure proxy and all they get is the proxy IP. If you block Microsoft at the firewall your operating system will stop working and you won't be able to get security updates.
Finished updating my home network to Kubuntu this weekend. Very nice. I support Microcrap all day and going home to my Linux network is like diving into a clear, cool pool at the end of a hot day. Everything is so fluid, easy to manage, low stress computing. Funny thing, I remember a day when going with Microsoft was the low stress networking option.
Those days are over.
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:3, Insightful)
In other words, serious PC gamers are stuck with Windows.
Re:Paranoia.... (Score:2, Insightful)
And you wondered why .... (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides the free gift of your personal info, the are those backdoor keys. They didn't call them "NSA keys" for no reason.
Console Games: The Darkness (Score:2, Insightful)
My left thumb is the LEAST dexterous digit, and yet that it what I am forced to 'aim' with.
The first PS3 game to release with a keyboard/mouse controller option will sell off the shelves!
You hear me? Just do it!
Thanks
Re:This is my single biggest push to free software (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm... all the major consoles support USB keyboards. Is the problem simply that the console game developers don't support these keyboards?
I suspect it's just a vicious circle. Most console owners presumably don't have keyboards because games don't tend to need them and they don't come as standard, and vice versa. If someone developed, say, the best ever RTS to run on a console and supporting powerful, keyboard-based controls to execute complex commands, I imagine that situation would reverse pretty quickly in that segment of the user base, but who wants to be the first company to risk something like that in a business like gaming?
Re:Vista's biggest enemy (Score:2, Insightful)
There are wealthy and powerful predators in both government and private industry.
But you can keep your head in the sand. The herd of idiots won't notice when the wolves pick you.
Just because you don't know, can't even imagine, don't have the intellect required to figure out, how predators are exploiting you doesn't mean it isn't happening. Maybe you think that society is all love and roses and nobody would ever exploit their fellow man. Don't let ten thousand years of history or reality enlighten you.
Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? (Score:3, Insightful)