Charges Dropped In PA Video Taping Arrest 177
Cumberland County District Attorney David Freed has reversed himself completely over the charges against Brian Kelly, arrested for wiretapping after videotaping a police stop. Now let's see if they are good enough to compensate Kelly for the 26 hours he spent in jail and the anguish of the cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest. From the article: "... [DA] Freed said his decision will affect not only Brian Kelly, 18, but also will establish a policy for police departments countywide. 'When police are audio- and video-recording traffic stops with notice to the subjects, similar actions by citizens, even if done in secret, will not result in criminal charges,' Freed said yesterday. 'The law itself might need to be revised.'"
thank god (Score:2)
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So your plans already include driving, getting pulled over, videotaping the entire encounter, and fighting the ensuing arrest in court?
Or are you just being a wanker?
Re:thank god (Score:5, Funny)
Oh you think so? (Score:2, Funny)
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No one's mentioned Michael Warren yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
Thankfully, the news got to the local media quickly, and when they broadcast news of the arrest, 200 folks showed up at the 77th Precinct's door (full disclosure: I was one of them). Sadly, this is hardly [mxgm.org] an [wcbstv.com] isolated [mindfully.org] instance [indybay.org]. It just happens to be the one that happened yesterday.
I realize that some of the sources I'm linking aren't exactly bastions of objective journalism, but if you'd like the other side of the issue, you have two choices:
1) Read the recommendations of NYPD officers on NYPD Rant, the largest message board for NYPD officers. In response to St. Louis ACLU handing out cameras to monitor police misconduct, many recommend "disappearing" the tapes or refusing to work in the area (see here [ezboard.com]
2) Next time you see police arresting or ticketing someone, pull out a notepad. Make sure to not interfere in any way with the police action - just take down names, badge numbers, police car numbers, and physical description of the arrestee. See what happens. I tried doing this once or twice in NYC, and was told, like Mr. Warren, that it was none of my business, to get lost.
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Must be a slashdot reader... (Score:2)
Good news (Score:1)
Puts a little bit of sunshine in the lately bleak atmosphere.
People in the USA are sometimes blessed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People in the USA are sometimes blessed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People in the USA are sometimes blessed... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Absolutely not.
The DA has career aspirations and didn't want to be labeled as "the douchebag who prosecuted someone for videotaping the cops"
If there was no coverage / outrage, the average joe would be spending time in prison (although our prosecutor would of have most likely negotiated down to a misdemeanor of some kind, losses and appeals look bad when you want to start out in politics...)
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Almost? In this era? This is a democracy; it IS our duty, and has been since the inception of this country.
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Yeah -- even a backwater town like New York City [thenation.com].
Blackadder Reference (Score:5, Funny)
"Permission granted."
"BRAVO!"
Nifong (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if the downfall of Mike Nifong has given prosecutors a dose of humility.
Re:Nifong (Score:4, Insightful)
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Still too much CYA (Score:5, Insightful)
[Freed] said the officer who charged Kelly acted in a "professional manner."
Avoiding accountability by throwing someone in jail for recording how you do your job is NOT professional. Rather, it is the act of a petty tyrant on a power trip who, if left unchecked, will most likely end up harming the public in other ways in the future. The citizens of Pennsylvania deserve better than this from their law enforcement agents.
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Re:Still too much CYA (Score:4, Insightful)
P ought to get out of civics class and into the real world.
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Re:Still too much CYA (Score:5, Insightful)
Contrary to your statement, officers are generally not obligated to enforce any particular law. If they were obligated to enforce every infraction of every law they ever witnessed, their entire day would consist of arresting everyone violating the speed limit directly in front of the police station, they'd never make it three blocks down the street, and many more important laws would be broken on streets with no police station.
Police officers are expected to use intelligent discretion to enforce the laws which will have the greatest impact in improving the quality of life of the community. That means some prioritization is necessary. Arresting murderers and rapists is an excellent use of police resources, and is quite easy to justify. Arresting jaywalkers and people who litter on the sidewalk is a poor use of police resources, and is harder to justify. Each arrest takes time, effort, and money which could be better used elsewhere in the community. Police officers' time is particularly valuable because just by walking or driving down a street, they can deter crime! A key question for police priorities could be, "is what I'm doing more or less productive than simply cruising down the street?" As a taxpayer and a citizen, I have an interest in police using their time wisely. An officer arresting someone for videotaping a publicly-accessible event was clearly not using his publicly-funded time wisely, just as setting up a strict speed trap in front of the police station is also not a wise use of resources.
Furthermore, I speculate that this officer was probably not aware that the wiretapping law could be used in this case. I wouldn't expect a traffic cop to be well-versed in wiretapping laws. He arrested the guy with the camera, then, according to the original article, "The wiretap charge was filed after consultation with a deputy district attorney." Chances are he was embarrassed about having lost his temper ("He said he held the camera in plain view and turned it on when the officer yelled at his pal") so he arrested the guy, probably for "disorderly conduct" or some other catch-all, then went to the DA's office to see if there was anything better to charge him with. Maybe the guy's pal was being a jerk and deserved to be yelled at. But if it was justified, the cop had nothing to hide, and in either case he had no legitimate reason to go after the guy with the camera.
For the record, I got an A in civics class... I'm a nerd, after all!
To Counter Your Point (Score:3, Informative)
It would be for any union realistically. How would you feel about being videotaped while you were working?
The difference is that police are in a position to suppress, harrass, and intimidate those who would potentially be taping their activities.
While I agree that the officer most likely did not consider wiretapping as the original charge, I would postulate that he had absolutely no reason to arrest this
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No he isn't. Police are not under an "obligation" to do the maximum possible any time they see the slightest infraction of any law, with no independent thought whatsoever. They're free to ignore minor infractions, give warnings, etc. Just as the DA is free to drop the case -- he isn't "obligated" to prosecute every offense that cros
Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:5, Insightful)
The *connotation*, however, is becoming increasingly negative, as is the inference when you refuse to reply, or respond that you have not been convicted of any crimes. (I started to type "have no convictions, but it got very confusing very fast!)
And no, I personally have neither convictions nor arrests.
KeS
Re:Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:5, Funny)
Remind me never to party with you.
-----
F&@k You Binary T-Shirt [prostoner.com]
Funny Shirts @ ProStoner.com
Re:Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly this phrase also peeved me off. Sometimes I get the feeling that there are a lot of people out there wringing their hands with glee over all the drama that comes along with living in a functional police state, which America is increasingly becoming, as more and more people believe that credit ratings and arrest records and nose cleanings represent the value of a human to society.
I, on the other hand, (Score:2)
Re:Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:5, Interesting)
When it came to check my record, I had none. I'm almost 30, and up until that day, I had never been arrested for anything. I had a bank card in my name, some photo membership etc.. and the police even phoned my landlord to verify my identity, which when verified, his shoulders visibly sagged. After all this, I was arrested. Why ? "We don't believe you are who you say you are, Sir." Great. So I end up sitting in a cell for 5 hours, get my DNA taken, all after a head-on crash which left me nicely bruised and hurting. Eventually, a jovial sergeant came to the cell "You can go now." with a smile. Thanks a f*****g lot.
To have the fact that I was arrested used against me in any way is just plain wrong. Companies should not be allowed to discriminate on information that provides no indication of wrong-doing.
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"take people's cars off the streets and crush them for no reason"
Rubbish. If the car is not displaying a valid tax disc then the law is being broken. A quick check tells the police whether a valid disc exists for a car's registration number and, if not, it 'can' be removed and crushed. You may not like that, but I do. I pay my car tax, I have insurance and a valid driving license. I do not have problems with the police enforcing the law in this particular instance.
If 'yelling' at trespassers is likely to cause a 'breach of the peace' then an offence is being com
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Re:Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:4, Informative)
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233613&ci
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Hey, this is the UK we're talking about - there is absolutely no requirement to carry ID in the UK (yet). Maybe you don't understand this in the "land of the free".
Re:Cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest (Score:4, Insightful)
I certainly would. I would gladly spend a month in Jail to live in a nation where "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" was more than just words on paper.
ID is about verifying who you are. Laws concern behavior, not identity. Police should act when they see illegal or behavior likely to be illegal, or when they have reasonable suspicion, supported by oath or affirmation and signed by a judge.
Police are Law Enforcement Officers, and there is no higher law (in the US) than the Constitution. As such, when police check ID in a manner inconsistent with the fourth amendment, they are in fact violating the law, and not doing their jobs.
You imply that Somalia is like it is solely because IDs aren't checked. Such argument is intellectually dishonest, and neglects differences in culture, and corruption in government. The United States, if less IDs were checked, would have fewer people in jail. It would, on the other hand, be more free - reading the writings of some of the founding fathers will quickly show that this is by design. The government's job in obtaining convictions and performing surveillance is difficult by design.
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My point was that the annoyances we experience from the police are a small price to live in a civilized place. Complaining that the police detained you for five hours over an ID issue is like complaining that you have to stop at traffic lights.
Our laws don't have much teeth without the ability to identify an offender. A functioning, orderly soci
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My point was that the annoyances we experience from the police are a small price to live in a police state.
There, fixed that for ya.
Complaining that the police detained you for five hours over an ID issue is like complaining that you have to stop at traffic lights.
Last time I checked, traffic lights don't hold you against your will for 5 hours.
Many people enjoy eating the sausage of freedom
Ahh - so in order to enjoy freedom, we have to be submit to being locked up when we've done nothing wrong.
Are you *trying* to sound Orwellian? (C'mon - you might have well have said "war is peace".)
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Are you saying that the UK is a police state? In that case, which countries are not police states?
On the other hand, being detained by the police is not an every day occurence for most people. My point is that in the big picture of life, it's nothing. It's down among the dental visits, fender benders and sprained ankles. Not in the same league as divorce, bankruptcy and cancer. O
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Are you saying that the UK is a police state?
As a citizen of the UK, are you saying that they're not?
My point is that in the big picture of life, it's nothing.
Bullshit.
Being arrested, hauled away like a criminal when you are completely innocent of any wrongdoing when there is no evidence that a crime has even been committed is not, in any way, shape or form "nothing".
Most civilized communities have achieved a reasonable balance
Bullshit - this has nothing to do with being "civilized"
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I don't understand how this can work. How does the UK address the issues I raised?
What does this mean? They hold you for 48 hours? They let you go, and say "come back in 48 hours with ID, or we'll issue a warrant for Mr. Noname"?
And what is this concept of landlord verification? Is this widely understood in the UK? How can the police tell that they're sp
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But I actually don't know how police in the US handle the driver who simply forgot his license. Could be the same thing for all I know.
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There's also a huge difference between ID being checked and someone being arrested and left in jail because some moron police officer refuse to accept what all the checks he did came up clean.
I don't see the poster you replied to complain about being asked to id
You don't deserve to live in a free society. (Score:2)
Papers please! You have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong. Unless you're one of dozens being exonerated after spending years of their lives in prison.
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There's your problem - you need to read the lines themselves, not the whitespace inbetween ;)
From the GP:
So he had non-photo, fairly usable (IMHO) ID in the form of bankcards, photo ID for smaller places, and verbal verification from his landlord, and they still arrested him?
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Amen. For those who think this is just an inconvenience, let me just point out that you're no longer allowed to visit the US anymore without having to:
* ring up the US embassy (on their hideously expensive premium-rate line)
* stay on hold for up to hours to get an appointment
* travel to London and queue up for hours for your appointment
* suffer an interview to get a visa, attempting to explain away your arrest
* pay a fortune
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Ha! The Federal government does that even to its own citizens! I was arrested back in college. The charges were dropped, but I was disqualified from a government contracting position some years later over the arrest, which didn't even go to TRIAL. That's where I learned about the concept of "protected" discriminations
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Wear it like a badge! (Score:1)
'Have you ever been arrested?'
'Yes, I was arrested and jailed while standing up for our rights.
I'd do it again, too.'
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I blame the media for that. Increasingly cases are reported on as though the guilt of the accused is in little or no doubt, especially if the case involves children and/or sexual offences.
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A friend worked for an intelligence agency. They polygraph everyone, and dig deeply into each crime and arrest. But they do hire people with criminal convictions, if they have been clean for a while. However, that agency will not
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To find you factually innocent and order the arrest records destroyed, th
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The solution... (Score:3, Insightful)
Lest we forget... Harry Truman went ban
Lawsuit from Brian Kelly's attorney (Score:4, Funny)
3
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1
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Keep the momentum going (Score:2)
A tiny rock on a hill of snow can become a gigantic snowball when rolled down with momentum. Let's not forget this incident, and fight similar issues throughout the world, knowing that you CAN make a difference.
Peace out.
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You're being cynical. Listen to the message and not my mannerisms.
Peace out.
Negative effect from this (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:Negative effect from this (Score:4, Interesting)
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Privacy, anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anytime I see police making a traffic stop, I whip out my camcorder and get some nice clear pictures of the police officer and the person being stopped. Sounds about like what is being promoted here.
The reason this is (was?) illegal in many places should be clear to people but apparently isn't. Yet, I hope.
The first problem is the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty. Yes, even in America today. So what does my videotape show? Someone being questioned by police. This is the sort of thing that attracts voyeurs like rotting meat attracts flies. People will pay for video like this, especially (but not exclusively) if the person is some kind of public figure or celebrity. Should it be legal to publish such video? Well here in the anonymous Internet age once you have something in digital form there is literally no stopping it from being distributed. You can't stop it and you can't shut it down.
See? This doesn't have anything to do with the police and everything to do with the other people. If you watch any of the police video shows you will always see the "perp" with his face pixelated so they aren't identifiable. Do you think amature videographers are going to do this before uploading their clip to YouTube?
This means a simple traffic stop where the cop tells you to watch running through yellow lights has the potential to become an issue with your job. Why? A lot of public-facing jobs really are closed to people that have even a hint of controversy about them. Would you leave your child in the care of a teacher that was accused of having sex with a child? Would you hire someone as a bank teller that was accused of embezzlement? Would you still hire them if your insurance company told you that hiring them would raise your insurance rates? 50 years ago this sort of information could be private and not disclosed. Today, it is readily available to be misused. And it certainly is misused, every day.
Is it right that groundless accusations can prevent people from getting a job? No. Does it happen every day? Yes, absolutely. Is having video tape of accused (but not convicted) people going to help or hurt?
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You have a number of very valid concerns here, but I'm not sure that videotaping arrests will make these social ills much worse than they already are:
It is unfortunate that employers are starting to ask about arrests, as it negates the presumption of innocence (to the extent that I could imagine it becoming illegal to ask about arrests in a job interview for just that reason) but having a videotape of the arrest won't add anything to that fact.
The cop shows blur out people's faces because they are ofte
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That's a fine argument, but not really applicable to this case. What's at issue is your right to record how the police treat you. Cameras are one was to equalize the power imbalance betwee
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Savings? could have been wiped out by a lawsuit as part of it all
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Woah. WOAH.
You've got a terrible headache. I perscribe painkillers. I've cured the symptoms. Surprise, the problem is a blood clot! You die!
Fixing the symptoms without fixing the underlying problem is often the worst thing to do, actually.
cloud over his future? (Score:1)
Now let's see if they are good enough to compensate Kelly for the 26 hours he spent in jail and the anguish of the cloud over his future caused by a felony arrest.
I think there's a big difference between a felony arrest and a felony conviction -- the only thing Kelly has to look forward to as a result of his arrest is 15 minutes of fame.
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Maybe the DA should be charged under federal law.. (Score:3, Informative)
First time for everything (Score:5, Funny)
Tern? That doesn't look like a typographical error, since the "e" and the "u" are nowhere near each other on the keyboard, so we must assume that you intend to watch the police from the water while preening your feathers and searching for fish to eat. Or, perhaps you'd swoop down on them from the sky and crap on their shiny cars?
Oh, you didn't mean "tern" like the type of bird, you meant you'd draw the three winning numbers in a lottery? Well, that's just confusing.
I'm a bit confused about your use of the abbreviation for Post Office though - or did you mean Pissed Off?
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Re:First time for everything (Score:5, Funny)
And then there was the time I was throwing rocks at birds. I wanted to leave no tern unstoned.
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Preservation of the clarity of the written word justifies harassment of all mis-uses of any word. If he'd SAID "teern", you can be he'd be laughed at.
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That's just stupid (Score:1)
Why Stop with cops? (Score:3, Insightful)
No cops should be allowed to go unchecked.
Why Stop there? I started keeping my digital camera in my car and ready for the crazy drivers I see every day. I've tried everything to get people to stop tailgating me, but it's almost surprising what happens when people realize that their bad driving is being recorded. Three times already I've had tailgaters back off when they saw a flash pointed at them; One trucker and 2 SUVs. People just act better when they know they are being recorded.
Re:What cloud of his future? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I had mine expunged (oops, but here I'm talking about it) but I don't think anyone has asked me about anything but convictions since.
Arrest record, how about a police record? (Score:2)
My current employer had mine pulled when I applied for the job (a school district, so they're pretty careful here). It was quite interesting to see the types of things that show up on there... pretty much anything past a parking ticket, and from wh
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And all their toys are made in China (Score:2)
a communist government right there.
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And both as much as England is a monarchy.
Good luck finding any pure governmental systems being used these days.
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Paul B.
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A county is a portion of a state.