DMCA Takedown Notice For a Fake ID 563
TrippTDF writes "Rachel Hyman, an artist and bartender in New York City, maintains a blog where she regularly posts images of fake IDs she confiscates from would-be underage drinkers, along with a description of the confiscation. Recently, one of her posts (Google cache) was taken down when the owner of the fake ID invoked the DMCA against Blogspot. Can one claim a forged document as a copyrighted work of art?"
Rachel is cool (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a great gem from her site, "Oh Kathleen O'Brien.. what terribly unjust irony that your fake Id would be confiscated on St. Patrick's Day."
from google cache (Score:1, Informative)
Dear Ashley Heyer,
There was no way you could've known. You had this really astoundingly good Maryland fake ID, and you were on a date with a boy who was over 21 and would show you the world of beer. Except, one hitch, me.
Something seemed wrong. Maybe it was the way the hologram reminded me of iridescent paper I had used once at an art studio, maybe it was how my old Maryland license had a bump where the rather ghetto real hologram was- and yours didn't.
So I asked you for a back-up ID. It was a NYU undergrad ID. Never the fool I asked, where did you go to high school? You replied, actually I went to school in Iowa.
Iowa.
No one from Pikesville goes to school in Iowa. I know, because I went to school with half of Pikesville. It's a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, which would also bring into question that altruistic organ donor choice. And the road, oh Ash, you couldn't have known that only rural or inner city (DC) roads are labeled like that. You definitely couldn't have guessed that I knew the road naming patterns from Pikesville, because I drove home so many kids from my high school, and developers are never creative.
You jumped to the rescue with, it's the new Maryland ID, and I said, no, it's the old one. I have the new one. You can't drink here, darling, and I'm keeping your ID.
But you went to high school in Iowa. Your father, Bradley, donated 125$ to a campaign for Iowa State House representative, republican, Carmine Boal. You were a a page at the Iowa State House for a bit too. You did grow up on 3601 NW 92nd Place-- in Polk City IA 50226.
It does have a very nice photo on it, better than the real Maryland machines take. And you were sweet and sad and smiley, in that friendly Iowa way - even though you're a republican. I'm sure you cursed me when I was out of sight.
Maybe, some day, you'll come back to the castle, when you're 21, with your totally real Iowa ID, and order that glass of Lucifer you so desire. Perhaps we can talk politics for a while. Maybe you'll know how to defend yourself.
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:jirEhYabN6wJ:
Re:Odd Issues. (Score:5, Informative)
There are two errors here:
First, most real (government-issued) IDs are not works of the US government but of state goverments. This is a minor point, but perhaps very tangentially significant since US government works are not subject to copyright on creation but state government works are.
Second, an original work that is derivative of another work is still, insofar as it contains original work, subject to copyright. Now, it may itself be a violation of the copyright of the work on which it is based, but that's an issue between the creator of the original and the creator of the derivative, not something which grants a license to third parties.
Re:Confiscation (Score:4, Informative)
In fact, she mentions it in her blog, as well (emphasis mine):
Re:Not to support the DMCA itself... (Score:5, Informative)
The DMCA takedown notice couldn't have been filed in good faith without the admission of creating a fake ID to which the individual is claiming the rights due her by creation of this document. Also attempting to use a fake document to gain entrance to the establishment would be a crime in itself. Seperate from making the ID. To issue a DMCA takedown requires at least the admission of attempting to use a forged document and even if someone else created it, she would have to name that person or accept the responsibility of creating it herself. Which would be admission to committing a second crime.
If the ID was real and illegally confiscated, the notice would have been delivered by law enforcement officials and would not have been a DMCA takedown notice, it would have been a search warrant based on the account given by the victim and the supporting admission on the theifs website. Stealing someones ID is a crime and someone on the right side of the law can use the police to get justice especially if the theif freely admits it in their blog.
Re:yes. next question? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Surprisingly, in theory, yes. At least here... (Score:3, Informative)
new york has become a relatively sedate city and is not a high crime area anymore (not as high as before anyway) - but still uses police tactics from a high crime era. so police troll for arrests/wrongdoing, etc. it's not uncommon to be in a club that is raided - and patrons all have to produce ID - it's an easy way for cops to find people with outstanding warrants and it also drums up business for the city - as clubs found to have underage patrons lose their cabaret licenses and have to pay fines and might even be shut down. All for the great bureaucracy.
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not to support the DMCA, but.. (Score:3, Informative)
If you're in the military, you can buy and consume alcohol, but only at a military base. Try again.
Re:Confiscation (Score:4, Informative)
Re:forgery, uttering, and big fish-little-pond-nes (Score:3, Informative)
actually, most rabbinical authorities are totally cool with organ donation anyways as saving a life is a bigger mitzvah than avoiding 'desecrating' a dead body.
Re:yes. next question? (Score:3, Informative)
This might differ state to state, but I doubt. Through the miralce of the interweb:
This comes from Virginia [state.va.us], and a quick search showed similar laws in NC and CA. It is illegal to own a fake ID, regardless of your intentions.
Re:Power trip more like it (Score:5, Informative)
Actually... as she says, the law (apparently) in NY is that if she doesn't confiscate them, she's liable. I know here in Ohio, barstaff are required to confiscate them as well.
If you actually like the bar, why the hell do you want the staff to pay several thousand dollars so you can have a drink, and why do you want the bar to risk being shut down?
Nephilium
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:3, Informative)
From the US Federal Copyright website:
"The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright." - http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci [copyright.gov]
Re:Not to support the DMCA, but.. (Score:3, Informative)
so in short she potentially has a lot to lose. also, the bar owners lose cabaret licenses and liquor licenses - which is a death knell for the business.
let it not be understated that bartending in NY can be very lucrative because of population density and the type of clientele. So this is not trivial to the bartender or the bar owner.
Re:Of Course (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not to support the DMCA, but.. (Score:1, Informative)
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislat
Re:hm (Score:3, Informative)
Re:forgery, uttering, and big fish-little-pond-nes (Score:3, Informative)
"Organ donation is permitted in the case when an organ is needed for a specific, immediate transplant. In such a case, it is a great mitzvah for a Jew to donate organs to save another person's life. Organ donation is not necessarily limited to dead people: Someone who can afford to spare a kidney, for example, may donate one to someone in need.
Yet in consideration of the prohibition against desecrating the body, it is forbidden to simply donate to an "organ bank," where there is no specific, immediate recipient. Furthermore, for general medical research or for students to practice in medical school, a Jew is not permitted to donate organs.
Even when there is a specific, immediate transplant, you need to be careful, because oftentimes in order to obtain organs as fresh as possible, a doctor will remove the organ before the patient is actually "dead" according to Jewish law. The doctor is therefore effectively killing the patient, which is of course forbidden.
The bottom line is that each case comes with its own myriad of detailed halachic factors. So before gong ahead with any procedure, you need to consult with a rabbi well-versed in Talmud and Jewish law. It is clearly not as simple as blankly signing an organ donation card."
And to the parent of the post who accuses the bartender of "religiously profiling" a jewish kid who was using a fake id and giving him an earful...I would have too. Thats why Jewish people do, look after each other, and make sure that each member of the tribe know that stepping out of line is a shame to the whole community.
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, you can copyright a derivative work, but that right only applies to the content that is, in fact new. Indeed, "Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service" held that information in a pure form (facts) cannot be copyrighted. Therefore, photo notwithstanding, a fake license cannot be copyrighted. As for the photo, it is a mug shot, which is inherently not artistic in nature, and as such, cannot be copyrighted.
Finally, Title 17, Chapter I, Section 113 pretty much takes the wind out of their sails:
(c) In the case of a work lawfully reproduced in useful articles that have been offered for sale or other distribution to the public, copyright does not include any right to prevent the making, distribution, or display of pictures or photographs of such articles in connection with advertisements or commentaries related to the distribution or display of such articles, or in connection with news reports.
Note: producing the fake ID was done lawfully; that is, the owner of the copyright of the photo gave permission in a legal way for it to be used in the production of the product (the fake ID) which was later offered for sale. What is unlawful is to pass the fake ID, and probably to sell it. There's nothing illegal about producing the article.
So no, that argument probably doesn't pass muster.
Re:Rachel is cool (Score:5, Informative)
First, yes, she is liable. Affirmative defenses are justifications, not blame-removers. I dunno about you, but I'd rather be blameless to start, and not rely on trying to prove a safety net. And, about that safety net, you also have:
sixty-five of this article, it shall be an affirmative defense that such
person had produced a driver's license or non-driver identification card
apparently issued by a governmental entity, successfully completed the
transaction scan , and that the alcoholic beverage had been sold,
delivered or given to such person in reasonable reliance upon such
identification and transaction scan.
Re:Not to support the DMCA, but.. (Score:3, Informative)
It seems that what I said was the case until 1982. (source [about.com])
Since 1982, the legal drinking age for U.S. military personnel (on active duty only!) has been the same as the age legally enforced by the location of the military base. Or in the case of bases within 50 or 100 (conficting sources here) miles of an US-to-[other nation] border, the base commander has the option to allow it to go as low as the lowest age legal for either the local laws or for the nation across the border. Also, bases in other countries can have a drinking age as low as 18, but also dictated by local laws and customs. (source [potsdam.edu])
Apparently, Wisconsin and New Hampshire are/were proposing to allow military bases in their states to have a drinking age of 18.
Re:Not to support the DMCA, but.. (Score:1, Informative)
It used to be correct, but it was changed quite a few years ago. I was in Germany in 98-01 and they were unable to sell alcohol to persons under the age of 21 from the Class 6 on base. You could go off base and have as many as you liked, however.
Obligatory Facebook link (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:5, Informative)
One cool thing about copyright (in the US): it does not protect the government. Anything the gov't puts out is in the public domain.
Re:Confiscation (Score:3, Informative)
Well, then the clerks at the liquor store are working under different laws than those of us who have 'just' worked at bars. In Ohio, bartenders and bouncers are obligated to retain any and all fraudulent identification. I took a course offered by the Ohio Division of Liquor Control, and was informed that, indeed, we had to retain fake IDs. As well as learning neat tidbits, like that it is okay for underage people to drink with their parents or over age spouses. Of course, the person who was trying to use the fake ID could request that a police officer verify it but, for some reason, that never came up with me.p>
Also:
It is illegal for any person other than the state to manufacture, sell, or distribute in any manner any identifaction card issued for the purpose of establishing a person's age that displays the great seal of Ohio, the words "Ohio", "State", "Official", "Chauffer", Commercial Driver", "Driver", "Operator", or any other designation that represents the card as the official driver's license or identification card of Ohio
Source (PDF warning) [ohio.gov]
That's just Ohio, though, but I can imagine that about every state has laws very similar.
It is in New York State (Score:3, Informative)
wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3(a)(2) [buffalo.edu]
NY Penal Code Section 170.10 Forgery in the second degree
A person is guilty of forgery in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, deceive or injure another, he falsely makes, completes or alters a written instrument which is or purports to be, or which is calculated to become or to represent if completed:
3. A written instrument officially issued or created by a public office, public servant or governmental instrumentality;
Forgery in the second degree is a class D felony.
NY Penal Code Section 170.25 Criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree when, with knowledge that it is forged and with intent to defraud, deceive or injure another, he utters or possesses any forged instrument of a kind specified in section 170.10.
Criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree is a class D felony.
She Only Claims The Photo (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Power trip more like it (Score:3, Informative)
It was even more surprising and not a little annoying when morons in some bars wouldn't even accept my passport as valid ID !
I think this Ashley person comes across as a slackjawed idiot whereas Rachel seems like an amusing person to know. I don't think Ashley will get very far with this ridiculous behaviour.
Re:Possesion (Score:4, Informative)
2. You apparently don't understand what happens to booze slinging places if they DO sell to underage kids fake ID or not. Typically they get shut down, completely. Well at least they lose their license to sling booze and get hit with a hefty fine, and when a bar doesn't sling booze, the bar doesn't exactly do business, but they still have to pay the rent, electric, etc...so in effect their business gets completely shut down. So because some dumb shit kid wandered in and you didn't catch the Fake ID you lose your entire business and all your employees lose their jobs?
3. Just in case you aren't aware. While it may vary from state to state, your drivers license or other such IDs rarely belong to you, they frequently belong to the state. Any sane court would toss out any claims of theft of a false ID in a heartbeat and not waste a dime of taxpayer money pursuing such nonsnese, and would then proceed to punish the fool with the fake ID.
4. I bet you one of those people that thought it was smart when the drug dealer called the cops because someone stole his drugs too huh?
5. Kudos on your rational behavior locking yourself in while demanding your ID back. I am certain that there was very little attempt to explain or work this out rationally. As you said you were furious and eventually locked yourself in. Next time try to be a little more sane and rational, and if needed call the cops to handle the dispute, but acting a fool and locking yourself in is just childish.
Re:Wouldn't the picture at least be copyrighted? (Score:4, Informative)
(IANL) in the US almost all criminal statues require Mens rea [wikipedia.org] IE a "guilty mind", or a clearly negligent act, so even if you broke "a law" creating a fake ID, that doesn't make it a criminal act. For example I have recieved "fake id's" in email of the bush family as a joke. IE they were clearly fake, to make them funney (IE a Dictator title, etc.) but those creating them obviously had no intent of the fake id being used for a criminal purpose...
Confiscation (Score:4, Informative)
Your recourse, of course, is to call the cops and let them sort the mess out, which you did. Locking yourself in the store was a cute, yet freakish gesture.