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Privacy Science

Buildings Could Save Energy By Spying On Workers 195

Galactic_grub writes "In the future, your place of work (or apartment) may very well spy on you. But that doesn't mean it'll be able to name and shame you for all your nasty habits. Researchers at Mitsubishi Electric Research Laboratory (MERL) have devised a 'dumb' surveillance system that monitors the movements of workers without identifying them individually. The idea is to have a computer system automatically configure the air-conditioning to save money, or illuminate the most appropriate escape signs in an emergency."
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Buildings Could Save Energy By Spying On Workers

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  • by msauve ( 701917 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:11PM (#18933955)

    illuminate the most appropriate escape signs in an emergency.
    Well, I would illuminate all escape signs in an emergency, infinitesimal energy savings be damned!
    • Re:Emergencies? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by caffeinemessiah ( 918089 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:15PM (#18934007) Journal
      Which is why you don't work at MERL. In large, complex buildings, having only the signs that lead you out of the building in the quickest possible way would definitely be a benefit. Especially if, for example, one particular exit route was blocked for any reason.
      • during an emergency, sensor and control systems such as those described would be guaranteed to operate flawlessly, and you would bet your life on that fact?

        I think you'll also find that in many places, all emergency exits are legally required to be marked/illuminated in specific ways.

        Of course, if one actually _reads_ the article, there is no mention of this at all - it's all an ill-conceived figment of the article submitter's imagination, which BTW, was headlined to be about "energy savings."
        • by Ucklak ( 755284 )
          Or they could use tritium radioactive gas [lightpanel.com] like most movie theatres use and newer chain restaurants in the past 10 years and not have to worry about a power bill or expensive batteries to replace.
          • But you do have to worry about the tritium decaying, with a half-life of only 12.32 years.
            • wouldn't the replacement of bulbs and backup batteries in normal exist lights pretty much negate that problem?

              Most buildings I have had dealings with have outright replaced the systems every ten years or so because it is cheaper then checking batteries and bulbs and all. During the periodic fire marshal's inspection, whenever something obvious like these don't work or fire extinguishers past their certification date or even out of range will cause the inspection to go from a routine walk through to a thorou
      • Re:Emergencies? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:38PM (#18934293) Homepage
        Fair enough, if they have the sense to make it so that the default is ON. Lost connection somehow, sensors not responding for any reason? It lights and stay lit. And if they really went to the trouble of making it an automated system, they should have colored bulbs. Green = Primary exit. Yellow = Secondary exit. Red = Blocked exit. No light = BULB IS BROKEN. I mean seriously, if people don't use an exit because they assume they're not suppose to use it because it fails to light up, you've made a much bigger screw-up. In most cases there's some obvious signs this exit isn't usable, like flames and smoke...
        • Re:Emergencies? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by seaturnip ( 1068078 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:53PM (#18934451)

          Fair enough, if they have the sense to make it so that the default is ON. Lost connection somehow, sensors not responding for any reason? It lights and stay lit.

          Still too failure-prone. What if the sensors are responding but buggy and they actively tell the signs to be off? A major disaster requiring evacuation could cause all sorts of things to go wrong.

          The most robust systems are usually the most simple.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            Many modern manufacturing control systems use integrated safety systems. Some gigantic machine is being run with a PLC that tells motors to start when buttons are pressed, etc. The same PLC is also watching to see if a safety cord is tripped by some guy who is caught in the machine. This is pretty reliable if properly implemented.

            For Exteme Super Safety you add a second PLC looking at the a second set of contacts in the safety cord. If at any time both PLCs don't agree, the machine stops.

            This kind of setup
            • Being reliable when properly implemented on equipment the operator receives instructions on as well as warning and such that they know before hand that it is life and limb threatening to operate is a different story entirely when considering someone stopping by a 50 story office building to get their eyes checked on the 29th floor.

              I mean seriously, Unless your in a position to instruct everyone about the workings as well as the dangers and account for most every situation, it isn't really a good Idea. The d
              • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                by Firethorn ( 177587 )
                Even for the practically blind guy, wouldn't it be better to avoid confusing him by not lighting exit signs for a route that leads through the danger? Most places require redundent exits from areas larger than 'Joe Manager's corner office'.

                If one is blocked by fire, shut the lights off so people don't attempt to go that way. Use standard redundant wiring for it, to include test sensors to tell you when the thing goes bad.
                • As long as the fire doesn't cut power or control and then end up directing people into danger after the system was designed to take them away. As it is now, the user needs to posses certain skills to ascertain the dangers in their exit route. These skill are taught in elementary schools and during the hiring process. There are also emergency evacuation layouts with the most direct exit outlined that needs to be in most buildings.

                  When we don't need these and stop paying attention because some other system is
            • by guruevi ( 827432 )
              I don't know about where you live, but in most factories I have been to, the way I learned it in school (yes, I have studied PLC controllers) and I think even governments require emergency stops, cords and the like to be switches serial to (one or all of) the main power lines. Somebody trips any emergency stop or the emergency switch breaks and the power gets cut off to the machine (not necessarily the controller, just the power that juices the motors for example).

              Nobody in the right mind would let a progra
        • And if they really went to the trouble of making it an automated system, they should have colored bulbs.


          And what do you propose for the very large population of color blind people?
      • by Slur ( 61510 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @06:02PM (#18934543) Homepage Journal
        I worked at a place where our floor, 7 1/2, had been left too short, so everyone had to crouch down all the time, and I was relatively tall. In an emergency the quickest way out was through a hole that led to being John Malkovich for ten minutes. You can imagine all the mayhem. It was hellish.
      • He said "All ESCAPE signs" Not "all signs". Furthermore, only illuminating the nearest escape signs presents a problem if that one route is blocked.
        • Re:Emergencies? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @07:29PM (#18935413) Homepage Journal

          The biggest problem, IMHO, with emergency evacuation is a little fact that is often overlooked: people tend towards exits with which they are familiar. If you have two main exits and four emergency exits which trigger an alarm, nearly all people will automatically take the two main exits because they are comfortable entering and leaving the building through those entrances and exits. The four emergency exits will almost never get used. The only exception is a situation where you have to pass right by the emergency exit to get to the main exit, and even then, most people will be reluctant to use the emergency exit.

          Similarly, stairs that culminate in an emergency exit door will almost never get used because people usually won't use them to get between floors and can't use them to enter or leave the building. As a result, only a small percentage of people will know where they are, and even fewer will know those stairs well enough to take them in an emergency. The rest will be too afraid of getting turned around and going the wrong way.

          Making this even funnier is the corollary: nearly every alarm resulting from use of emergency exits is a false alarms. (A large percentage are either A. shoplifters at department stores or B. small children.) That makes the automatic alarm a complete waste of resources. You are far better off with a normal door and a pull handle.

          What does this mean for emergency preparedness? Simple: you should NEVER have an entrance or exit that is "for emergency use only" unless it leads to an unsafe area such as a rooftop. All exits should be clearly marked and USED REGULARLY. Workers should be encouraged to frequent the entry/exit stairs closest to their offices/cubicles whenever possible, and to enter and leave the building through the most direct route, which by definition means that the most direct route cannot have one of those stupid "alarm will sound" bars on it.

          If every emergency entrance and exit were turned into a normal entrance/exit with a pull handle and were used in the normal course of entering and leaving buildings, the typical time to evacuate a building in the event of an emergency would drop dramatically. If you'd like to take the easiest possible step towards making your workplace safer and you have an emergency management team at your workplace, point this out to them, and ask them why safe entrances and exits are marked as being for emergency use only. If they can't answer that question, ask that they change the doors into normal entrances and exits, then continue to nag them at every opportunity until they do so. You may not successfully change anything, but at least you'll get them thinking about the problem.

          • Two things. I agree with everything you said except that it isn't always financially feasible to place necessary staff at certain exits and entrances like in a store or a building that requires security. But these are far and few in between and outside of this, I don't see any problem in most situations with that idea.

            Well, one more issue, Stairs and corridors that are rarely used tend to be haunted by seedy people who are prone to illegal acts. Rape, muggings and random violence seems to happen in these pl
            • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              As far as the staffing goes, those issues can be easily handled by badge access doors, just like most businesses do for after hours access. With respect to the seedy characters outside the doors waiting to mug you... yikes! Fnd a job in a safer neighborhood. :-)

              • Fnd a job in a safer neighborhood. :-)

                Well, to be honest, that situation wasn't there when it all began. It happened over the course of about 3-5 years. After the second rape and probably the 15th mugging with the cops unable to do something about it, the land owners in the area banded together and started buying the residential houses behind the area and bulldozing them to create a large parking lot.

                I'm sure this not only displaced innocent people but moved the problems somewhere else so they didn't hav

          • by ajs318 ( 655362 )
            The problem with this is that doors which are designated as "emergency exits" and fitted with "dead man's bar" latches are usually not industrially-rated. The door companies know that they aren't going to be used that often, and so use cheaper materials and components (even residential doors are heavier-duty than emergency doors). Management get to save a few bob and impose another stupid rule (emergency exits are not to be used except in an emergency). Everyone's a winner!

            I know this because in the fa
      • by nwbvt ( 768631 )

        Except if the route with the lit signs is also the route that is blocked.

        Also, most large office buildings house a lot of people, if everyone just went out what some algorithm considered the quickest door there would be a huge bottleneck in that exit. Generally the plan is to make use of each and every available exit.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by ajs318 ( 655362 )
          I can just see Clippit popping up on someone's screen .....

          It looks like you are on fire. Would you like to

          ( ) Try and put it out
          (o) Search MSN for more information on firefighting
          ( ) No thanks, I'll deal with it later
      • by kabocox ( 199019 )
        Which is why you don't work at MERL. In large, complex buildings, having only the signs that lead you out of the building in the quickest possible way would definitely be a benefit. Especially if, for example, one particular exit route was blocked for any reason.

        Um, the building is on fire, or in an earth quake, flood, hurricane or what ever, it isn't working properly and is about to fall down. Are you going to trust that these signs will works as said? I doubt they'd work quite that well.

        What we really nee
      • It would be interesting to see a study of how many people actually use those EXIT signs in emergencies.
    • Re:Emergencies? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PhrostyMcByte ( 589271 ) <phrosty@gmail.com> on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:17PM (#18934035) Homepage
      I hope by "appropriate" they mean if a building is on fire and one of the escape routes like a stairwell is on fire, it will redirect them to a safer place.
      • From the article:

        Such systems could use their knowledge of where groups congregate to turn down the air conditioning when there are only a few people in one part of the building, for example. In an emergency, electronic signs could direct people to the nearest available escape route when one becomes congested.

        Low-tech signs to indicate all exit methods. High tech signs to indicate the best exit method, taking into account that there are 200 people trying to jam their way out the closest exit, and one
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by PPH ( 736903 )
        And if they're all blocked, the signs say, "You are going to die".
      • That depends. If you're a good employ that carpools, doesn't turn on the lights, and always powers down his machine at the end of the day, then you're fine. If you don't, well, just remember, stop drop and roll, stop drop and roll.
    • Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:18PM (#18934059) Journal
      Exactly.

      I mean, in most emergencies I can think of (flood, earthquake, tornado, whatever), you can pretty much bet on something being, you know, _damaged_. What if it's a sensor, or one of the hubs for this monitoring thing, or whatever? I can easily imagine someone getting lost, or trapped because they were too slow to evacuate, or end up with a stampede, just because the computer thought there was noone on that floor.

      Heck, common sense says that something will be damaged even if nothing goes wrong. E.g., an escape sign will have a burned lightbulb. If the one at the other end of the corridor does light up, maybe I'll see that one.
      • by c_forq ( 924234 )
        In most MAJOR emergencies I don't think it matters too much. What good is a exit sign that is on if it leads to a stairway that is on fire? What good is an exit sign that got sucked up with a tornado? In major emergencies people will get lost and trapped no matter what. This should help emergency evacuation and lock-downs in non-major events, like chemical spills or small fires.
    • by vux984 ( 928602 )
      Better yet if they can put enough AI into the system it might learn to create emergencies just to evacuate the building allowing it to shut all the lights and air conditioning off, and saving the company some real money!
    • I've run straight towards a mayor gas leak in an actual emergency. If I had to do it all over, a smart sign that would get me away from the gas leak would be very welcome. Of course, the gathering point (for counting the employees) was also next to the gas leak, but trust me, I wasn't there for a very long time.
      • "If I had to do it all over, a smart sign that would get me away from the gas leak would be very welcome."

        Well as long as the relay to turn on the new sign is NOT nearby also :O

        Does the system come with a gas detector to tell it not to turn on/off any lights etc during a suspected gas leak like the gas company says?

        Hmm it would either disable itself and not help you or possibly blow you up trying to help, oops.

        ----

        The big (unanswered ) question tho.

        Did it save enough to pay for the system and the 215 sensor
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by owlstead ( 636356 )
          Hey, this is research, not an actual implementation or anything. I was just responding to the parent because he thought it was because of electricity savings. I personally would not mind buildings getting smarter, as long as they don't put movement detectors inside of toilets (I don't like to s(h)it in the dark).
    • by eonlabs ( 921625 )
      It's alright if it fails to on. The issue here is when you have large office buildings (e.g. 50+floors) and nobody's there. The savings come from not having those lit 24-7 for weeks on end when there is no emergency.

      It's the age old question:
      If a tree falls in a forest, and no one's there to hear it, does it make a sound.

      In the same breath, I would probably wait on that until the other modes of operation are proven effective (and not something remeniscient of 1984).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by HermMunster ( 972336 )
      Well, the concept is bullshit. If they can spy on you they will. Period.
    • by FFFish ( 7567 )
      I agree. All emergency exit signs should be On at all times.

      Blinking the most-appropriate exit path would be appropriate, so long as in the worst-case they failsafe to steady On.
  • Already exists (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fwice ( 841569 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:14PM (#18933989)
    My company already has this. Lights / ventilation run only from 6:30 AM to 6:30 PM. At that points, the lights / hvac goes out. But if you are working and want to reactivate these systems, there is a webpage (and a phone extension) that you go to, input your office location, and voila -- the systems come back on.

    and according to the company, its dropped costs by a third.
    • We have something similar, but a little less cumbersome. All the lights and office climate controls go out at 9 PM. For each block of a few (four or five) offices there is an override switch that you can hit to turn everything in that block back on for the next two hours.
      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        We have something similar except that the normal light switches shut themselves off at a particular time, and you just have to switch them back on after about thirty seconds. I think it's some sort of weird latching relay design.

    • I've been specifying "occupancy sensors" in commercial HVAC systems for years. Not only do they control the lights (so they turn off when someone leaves the room without hitting the switch) but they tie into the building management system/central HVAC control to handle things like ventilation cycles and temperature setbacks. Combine with a time clock like you describe and you get a great way to improve building efficiency. (No crappy website or phone call to deal with, though!)

      The key difference in the arti
      • I've been specifying "occupancy sensors" in commercial HVAC systems for years. Not only do they control the lights (so they turn off when someone leaves the room without hitting the switch) but they tie into the building management system/central HVAC control to handle things like ventilation cycles and temperature setbacks.

        You mean like, oh I don't know, THERMOSTATS? With all due respect, I work in commercial real estate engineering, and we run a 1,000,000 sq ft campus with 6 buildings, all of whic

        • Thermostats are, of course, an essential part of the system as well. Without them you can't tell what temperature the space is supposed to be or what the temperature actually is. However, most spaces are not used all the time, and energy can be saved by relaxing teh ehating/cooling/ventilation requirements when they are not in use.

          For example, NYS code specifies minimal outside air ventilatiion rates, based on either CFM per person or CFM per square foot, depending on the type of space. Outside air usually
    • Lights in my building don't have an 'on' state, they are either off, or PIR-controlled. When they are PIR-controlled, they go off after no movement for about 10 minutes. You can see who is working at night by which bits of the lab have little pools of light.
      • When they are PIR-controlled, they go off after no movement for about 10 minutes. You can see who is working at night by which bits of the lab have little pools of light.
        Just put a gadget inside your office that moves every few minutes... You boss and coworkers will think you pulled an all nighter.
    • This system wouldn't work in most tech companies. Workers there are expected to work at all hours.
    • by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @06:09PM (#18934621) Homepage Journal
      Yup IBM conference rooms have this too. Except they didn't work too well back when I worked for IBM so the lights would inevitably go out in the middle of the conference and we'd all have to jump around in hopes of hitting the sweet spot that would cause the lights to come back on.

      In my current building the restrooms are wired with motion sensors but if you have to sit still and concentrate for longer than 5 minutes the lights go out. Unfortunately that's somewhat distracting from the business at hand and I suspect that the energy saved is probably offset by the length of time the lights going off extends your visit to the restroom. I suppose that could be resolved by mandating that all employees have Keloggs Prune Bran for breakfast...

      • lights would inevitably go out in the middle of the conference and we'd all have to jump around in hopes of hitting the sweet spot that would cause the lights to come back on.

        The offices used by senior management have PIR activated lights. Invariably they wind up sitting in the dark after a while so I make a point of dropping in on the boss from time to time and waving my arms around to put the light back on the subject.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )
      My company already has this.

      Mine too, but ours is motion activated. However, sometimes the sensors go bad and the lights go out even though people are there. Multiple people have to go and do the YMCA dance or the Macarana to trigger the motion sensors. We sometimes joke that people aren't working hard enough to trigger the motion sensors and that management uses them as productivity detectors.
           
    • by Mr2001 ( 90979 )
      My company has something similar... it's called a programmable thermostat. The heating system turns off at night, but if someone's working late, they can walk over to the thermostat and turn it back on in temporary mode.
    • by nwbvt ( 768631 )
      My apartment has something like that too. All the lights are connected to these 'switches' that you could hit when you enter a room to turn on the lights, and then hit again when you leave to turn them back off. Its brilliant, foolproof, and doesn't require me to run a bunch of energy consuming sensors and computer to run everything.
    • there is a webpage (and a phone extension) that you go to (...) and according to the company, its dropped costs by a third.
      This is easily remidied by a small Perl script :-)
  • or illuminate the most appropriate escape signs in an emergency

    There's no "or" in an emergency. I thought all exit signs are appropriate.

    Unless of course a fire damaged some backup batteries, and the system must act smart and determine the best route to maximize the number of survivors.
  • by lpangelrob ( 714473 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:14PM (#18933995)
    This is the most optimistic writing on infrared motion detectors I've read in a long, long time.
    • And after they install all the IR motion sensors controlling the lights and other systems, all the programmers and other IT workers have to learn to wave their hands over their heads every few minutes so that sitting in one spot with only their hands moving just above the keyboard and mouse won't let the timers run out and turn off their lights, leaving them sitting in the dark.
      • by Firehed ( 942385 )
        Give it a week or so... Thinkgeek will create something to clip on to the edge of your cubicle that intermittently spins around and takes care of this problem. Almost certainly USB-powered.
    • Over 20 years ago I worked in a building that had IR motion sensors to control lights. It is a huge building and the IR would light up sections as you walked through them. Worked well.

      It also worked as a security lighting system, turning on the lights one the few occasions the place was "visited".

  • by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary&yahoo,com> on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:17PM (#18934047) Journal
    I'm afraid I can't allow you to turn that light on. My cooling systems take precedence over the illumination needs of primates. How can I compute your optimal escape route in case of a fire if my systems are overheating?

    You'll just have to pee in the dark, Dave.
    • by thewils ( 463314 )
      Peeing is no problem, I worked once in a place where the lights in the rest/washrooms came on and went off automatically. It's a disconcerting feeling when the lights blink out and leave you all alone, sitting in the pitch dark.
    • Luckily, if there's a fire, that will provide enough light to know where to aim. The tricky part is putting out the fire before you run dry.
  • Nothing to see (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:18PM (#18934067) Homepage Journal
    http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm [marshallbrain.com]

    Depending on how you want to think about it, it was funny or inevitable or symbolic that the robotic takeover did not start at MIT, NASA, Microsoft or Ford. It started at a Burger-G restaurant in Cary, NC on May 17, 2010. It seemed like such a simple thing at the time, but May 17 marked a pivotal moment in human history.
    • I for one welcome our new robotic overlords!

      After all, our current human overlords are doing a terrible job. Let's give the robots a shot at it.
  • Spying? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TimmyDee ( 713324 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @05:19PM (#18934081) Homepage Journal
    How in the hell is this spying? All they are doing is taking a rough estimate of the number of people in the room and adjusting the AC/heat (and I did RTFA). No tracking. No identification of individuals.

    It sounds to me like this story got trumped up with a privacy scare to get some reads.
    • How in the hell is this spying? All they are doing is taking a rough estimate of the number of people in the room and adjusting the AC/heat (and I did RTFA). No tracking. No identification of individuals.

      Didn't you ever watch Sneakers? You can correlate IR data to individuals quite easily based on another data point such as an individual's arrival or departure to the building (perhaps even passing a security camera at the entrance). :)
      Or more interesting, you can identify individuals by their patterns of

    • This just in:

      Doctors And Nurses Spy on Patients

      In obvious breach of the privacy of sick people, doctors and nurses have been asking questions, observing vital signs and recording the data on charts. Some have been going so far as to take samples of blood and other body fluids and tissues and taking these away to unknown "labs" for analysis.

      These behaviours were defended by doctors as "necessary to ensure accurate diagnosis and to allow proper theraputic responses".

      But we're having NONE of it. LEAVE SICK PEO

  • Hopefully it'll be good enough to offset the extra energy from all the holographic girlfriends.

    (I know.. I know.. sixth day was a crap movie).
  • Researchers at Mitsubishi Electric Research Laboratory (MERL) have devised a 'dumb' surveillance system that monitors the movements of workers without identifying them individually.
    Are we getting a little paranoid about being watched?
  • If it's simply registering the presence of people in a given area, wouldn't "detect" be a much better word than "track"?

    If course that makes it sound like decades old tech and not worth the time to write up *wink*
  • by Flexagon ( 740643 )

    Sounds like M5 [wikipedia.org]. Let's just be careful whose engrams are used!

  • room is empty trun off / down air-conditioning
  • So those motion-sensitive driveway lamps are actually evil spying equipment? Who'd've guessed?
  • I've been to many places where the lights in the washroom are off or dimmed until someone steps into the room. I've never once thought "Oh no, they're spying on me!" Granted, that's probably a very simple application compared to what the article talks about, but it's not "spying," just making more efficient use of resources.

  • Maybe I missed something, but I've worked in offices (and have been to classrooms) which had the light system tied in with motion detectors. If there was no movement within 15 minutes, the lights would go out.
    Biggest problem with a system like this, though, is that if people are not moving around (working while sitting down), the lights go out causing much annoyance.

    I see that the new thing is that the sensors & software are able to differentiate between a person walking in a straight line, people split
    • by Fry-kun ( 619632 )
      On second thought, if there's one person in a very large room, there's no point in lighting the whole room - only the area around the person.
      It's kind of neat, but doesn't seem very useful.. and could be easily achieved by a system that is not centralized (scan for heat signatures with IR - if found, keep the light/AC turned on, otherwise - turn off)
  • Our building had a similar attempt at a "smart" office. It would automatically turn on/off lights, HVAC, etc based upon movement. Unfortunately, the system made very poor assumptions about people working off-hours, weekends, and such.

    Basically, if a handful of people were working into the evening or on a weekend, they wouldn't provide sufficient input to the system. After 30 minutes of no movement in the hallways, the system would assume irresponsible workers had vacated the building, leaving the lights
  • Redundent? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Monday April 30, 2007 @09:50PM (#18936525) Journal
    You know, If they had a proper zone control on the cooling/heating systems, it would seem as if it already changes the cooling loads depending on the number of people present. If you set the thermostat to 72 degrees, and the temperature is 72 degrees, wouldn't it still be 72 degrees with 1 or 500 people present?
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by reverius ( 471142 )
      I think the point is to make it 72 degrees if 1 or more people are present, and 100 (or whatever it would be without air conditioning) degrees with 0 people present.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sumdumass ( 711423 )
        That doesn't sound like it would save any energy. It takes more energy to cool a room down to a temperature then it does to maintain that temperature with modern air conditioners. Adding 100 ninety eight degree heat sources(bodies) to the room would only make it worse.

        That is unless they are planning on installing undersized air conditioners and kicking more on when more people are present. But I don't really see a big savings there either. At least not one that would compensate for the added monitoring and
        • Smaller ACs would actually be a loss. They, like many mechanical devices, get more efficient as they get bigger. A windo unit often will be as bad as 3 or 4 SEER whereas house ones are usually 15 or more.
        • It takes more energy to cool a room down to a temperature then it does to maintain that temperature with modern air conditioners. Adding 100 ninety eight degree heat sources(bodies) to the room would only make it worse.

          Do you have a source for this? It seems to violate some basic theories of the carnot cycle/heat transfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_conduction [wikipedia.org]).

          If I want to keep a room at 68 degrees for today and some day 100 years for now, but I don't care about anything in between, your statement suggests that it's cheaper to leave the air conditioner thermostat set at 68 degrees for every day for 100 years than it is to run it for 2 days (today and the day 100 years

          • No I don't have any sites to back this up. I'm just going from personal experience. I have access to a vacation cabin that I spend a few weeks at each year. The AC is off when we arrive and it runs constantly for the first day or two cooling the place to 72 degrees when we first arrive. After it hits temperature, it kicks on and off a few times per day. You cannot tell me that running for 16 hours straight is cheaper then 5 or 10 minutes an hour over the same 16 hours to maintain that temperature.

            It is the
  • I was at Tokyo U. computing artifacts dept in 97 and I can attest that it was relaxing if not thrilling when the light went out while I was on the toilet.

    On the other hand the system they are talking about sounds a bit spooky if overzealous. Might be necessary, though some offices I've been in they try to get you out because otherwise the heating would have to be kicked in and cost more money..
    • >I can attest that it was relaxing if not thrilling when the light went out while I was on the toilet.

      That's like going into my storage unit for ten minutes, usually with boxes piled up in front of the entrance.

      TFA: >or illuminate the most appropriate escape signs in an emergency.

      We need Plastic Man to do the reach on this one.
  • In Gremlins II, where the hero had to jump around and wave his arms to get the building to turn the lights back on.

A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the seed from which other committees will bloom. -- Parkinson

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