Blizzard Seeks to Block User Rights, Privacy 639
An anonymous reader writes "In the overlooked case between Blizzard and MDY Industries, the creator of the WoWGlider bot, Blizzard is arguing that using any programs in conjunction with the World of Warcraft constitutes copyright violation. Apparently accessing the copy of the game client in RAM using another program infringes upon their rights. Under that logic, users do not even have the right to use anti-virus software in the event that the game becomes infected. Furthermore, Blizzard's legal filings downplay the role of their Warden software, which actively scans users' RAM, CPU, and storage devices (and potentially sensitive data) and sends information back to Blizzard to be processed."
I have the right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I have the right (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I'm not sure that it's copyright violation and in this case I'm not sure the end justifies the means, but the *end* is a good one. Stopping cheating is a good thing.
Re:I have the right (Score:4, Insightful)
Elaboration? (Score:4, Insightful)
Can someone elaborate for the ignorant: aren't you supposed to prove that you *did* reverse engineer it, not that you didn't? Since the copyright only covers duplication of code, not duplication of functionality?
Re:Elaboration? (Score:5, Informative)
The creators of the first non-IBM PC BIOS had one team decompiling/inspecting/reverse engineering the code and writing up documents describing how it worked. Then a toatlly seperate team that never saw the original wrote a functional replacement based on those specs. This was carefully documented so they could prove they weren't copying the code, just duplicating the functionality. Similar procedures have been used in other less famous cases.
Of course, the people Blizard is complaining about certainly aren't copying the code, as they aren't even trying to make a replacement. They are trying to make their code interoperate with Blizzards, which is clearly protected, despite the undesirability of that interoperation to many.
Blizzard is probably trying to enforce some EULA deal where the right to copy the software (by installing and/or running it) is only granted if you "agree" not to reverse-engineer it. I find that legally dubious, and I'm only guessing that's the deal, because that would bring the story into the ballpark where a really flexible-minded lawyer might advance the theory with a straight face. Claiming copyright violation for looking at RAM and not copying anything is not in that ballpark.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Almost right. Decompiling wasn't necessary as the full x86 assembly source code for the BIOS was listed in the technical reference manual that was available to anyone for quite some time, and the comments were very complete so there wasn't any real work needed to figure out how it worked - it was just a matter of the Phoenix team writing up a funct
Re:Elaboration? (Score:4, Informative)
It can't. You cannot infringe on copyright except by copying something. You may not have called the other poster ignorant, but I will. He continues to be wrong about what Phoenix (the BIOS guys) did and why. One of their two teams absolutely opened up the "box", read the source code, etc. Those guys could have then gone and written their own BIOS without directly copying anything, and it would not have been infringement. But it would have been impossible to *prove* they didn't copy the code just by remembering it. So instead they wrote up their own detailed description of what the thing did, and passed that off to an entirely seperate team that wrote the new code.
Re:I have the right (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a hard time seeing a judge thinking about things this deeply, meaning (a) he'll say, "you're full of crap. no dice.", or (b) he'll say, "wow, you're right. no program may read another program's data, whether on the harddrive, or in memory, because that implicitly involves some level of copying of information, and we must protect copyright."
Based on past events, I dread the result.
Re:I have the right (Score:5, Informative)
As far as cheating goes - bots for grinding in MMO games are an interesting case. This isn't an aimbot that helps you beat other players, or improves your abilities. It doesn't hack the client into thinking that you have more gold / resources that you really do. It just takes the tedious repetitive actions in the "game" and plays them through. It's an autopilot. The real question for me: is a game that requires an autopilot actually fun enough to play?
(I would say no, but given that he's made a profitable business out of it, lots of people must say yes).
Re:I have the right (Score:5, Interesting)
Really I think he's in the clear on this but like another poster I dread the case law that may result.
On a separate note, if I build a programmable keyboard that has the ability to macro complex keystrokes would that be an issue?
How bout if I could macro the mouse as well?
What if I also incorporated a capture device and pointed a video camera at the monitor, thus building an artificial player? (no process running on the machine with the game, all external). While this really is only a thought experiment, where is the line drawn?
-nB
Re:I have the right (Score:5, Insightful)
Blizzard doesn't really want to own you system, they just don't want you to play unattended. The whole point of WoWGlider is to set your toon to run around somewhere, and kill the same mobs over and over again, grinding for you. At the end of the day, the experience is much the same as buying a lvl 70 toon of EBay: a whole bunch of clueless players running around in end-game content that requires a lot of detailed knowledge about your game and class mechanics. Blizz would much rather have you do quests and actually consume the content they designed for you - if everyone sits on end-game content, you'd get bored pretty soon.
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the game already has a built-in macro system, so I don't think blizzard would take issue with this.
The in-game macro system has designed built-in limitations, such as forbidding macros that require waiting for something to happen (like a spell cooldown), so you cannot chain spells together. This WoW Glider seems designed to specifically circumvent that. I'm not surprised they got sued.
Read Blizzard's response in the court docs. I largely agree with them, as much as I hate the implementation of the Warden. I hate cheaters more.
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Re:I have the right (Score:5, Insightful)
MMORPG users want to automate it because the automation can probably do it faster and quicker than they can, leaving them with some kind of wizard character they can use to push around other players.
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But you don't have the right (Score:4, Insightful)
What is at stake here? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think Blizzard is approaching this case wrong. The bottom line is that they consider people using the glidebot to be cheating the system. Personally, I don't use it mainly for fear of having my account canceled. I'd much rather have something else go thru the grind for me than have me sitting in
If the game becomes tedious ... (Score:2)
If you find the game so tedious, why are you playing it ? How about playing something that's actually fun ?
Then again, WoW is very light on the grinding side (unless you're doing nothing but leveling up one char after the other). At least on the type of grinding that's easily automated. It'll be a while until 25 bots can run a raid instance.
I quit 2 months ago (not because of the grind,
Re: (Score:2)
Then again I was grinding all the time because everyone in my clan was l60 but me. I would have been fine letting someone else or an AI make me some gold, which is worth real money to some people, whi
Re:What is at stake here? (Score:4, Insightful)
pisses off people who have a life as well. People who bot make it harder for everyone who don't bot because the botting is there all the time killing the same mobs over and over again. While your bot is killing those furbolgs, or elementals, or undead the other players who are trying to earn their rep, gold, or materials the honest way get screwed over by your bot.
The problem is an intractable one in WoW. Most players are prevented from effectively griefing bots by the normal game rules, but there's nothing that prevents bots from griefing other players by scouring an area clean of mobs. I've seen situations where there were 4 separate bots killing the mobs in the same field.
The solution? Don't play WoW. The game is mostly an endless grind fest. It's the timesinks that make botting popular even though it can and does get your account banned. Of course, on the flip side Blizzard is extremely slow to ban botters. I've seen bots still operating more than a month after I first reported them.
I've been much happier since I quit.
A chilling effect? (Score:2, Funny)
Power to the SUN (Score:2)
By that logic, SUN owns every program written in Java. On the other hand, Intel owns every program that uses processor's instructions.
May be there is some "license" from Intel of SUN involved?
That is where the world seems to be headed. (Score:5, Interesting)
The way things are going, we will soon see legal battles between all kinds of financial interests:
"We own that story, he wrote it using our software."
"But he was using our hardware."
"Yes, but he was sitting on our chair."
"Ah, but he was sitting inside our building."
"True, but he had eaten our food that morning."
"Yes, and he was working beneath our light bulb."
"Ahhhhh, but he was breathing our air..."
Judge: "Divide the profits from its sale evenly amongst yourselves."
Writer: "But what about me? I don't even want it sold. I wrote it and I should get to control it..."
All: "Bwahahaha, you fool! Do you think you would be anything if it weren't for us? Everything you do is the result of what we have given you!"
Re:That is where the world seems to be headed. (Score:5, Interesting)
These legal tactics are older than the hills. Books in the USA once had EULAs (until SCOTUS decided Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus establishing the doctrine of first sale). Proponents of so-called unbundled rights have had mixed results in recent years - DMCA passed, UCC Article 2B/UCITA mostly failed.
Defending common-sensical notions like "putting money down on the counter and walking out with a box constitutes a sale of a product" and "contract terms not visible at time of sale are unenforceable" is bound to be an eternal battle because some businesses will always be lobbying against them in the hopes of making money. There is no endgame where individuals win once and for all, nor where all consumer protections are finally repealed - the pendulum is bound to swing back and forth in response to competing pressures.
-Isaac
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Misleading. (Score:4, Interesting)
Agree with the DMCA or not, this is a "valid" use of it.
Re:Misleading. (Score:5, Insightful)
Blizzard / Vivendi is trying to extend the DMCA to mean that any application scripting and macroing is illegal. This means that not only would you be banned for doing something the game developer doesn't like, but that their decrees would have a jail sentence behind it. This seems wrong to me, both morally and legally.
Now, as a game developer, I think WoW cheaters should be hit hard and fast with the banstick, and think that MMO's should consider gathering together to create clustered bans... I.E. get banned from one MMO, and you're out of most of them. I hate online cheaters with a passion reserved for those who have to deal with them. But I don't think that constitutes legal grounds to send people to jail for the DMCA-specified term of 10 years.
You have the right to script your computer. And they have the right to never let you play their game again. But they don't have the right to incarcerate you for years for it. So guard your rights, or any time any company asks you not to do something they'll be able to throw you in jail for it.
Re:Misleading. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Simple - The "access" they wish to block, they don't control.
If they want to test the integrity of their program and its memory, fine. If they want to TOS people for certain behaviors, fine. But they don't own my keyboard, mouse, joystick, or OS. If I want to run a program to stuff my keyboard buffer, Blizzard has NO right to do a goddamned thing about it other than ban my account. They don't have the right to run spyware on my machine, they certainly do
Re: (Score:2)
Which is not what Blizzard intends to be done with their game.
Re: (Score:2)
Did your mother drop you on your head? This has nothing to do with bots. It has to with whether or not the people who write the bot software are allowed to manipulate the game code in memory. Blizz says no, and says that it's a copyright violation, which is at least arguable, if over-broad.
Options (Score:2)
I think Blizzard would let this particular circumstance slide when determining the requirements for who should be dealt with in their investigations. There's gotta be some gray-area here, assuming Blizzard is a reasonable company.
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WTB 1x[Clue] PST (Score:2)
I could understand if it used WoW code to do what it does, but I didn't see anything along those lines.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In that way, it's just like the GPL: "You do not have to follow this license
Re:WTB 1x[Clue] PST (Score:5, Informative)
At least in the USA, it is not copyright infringement to copy software for the purpose of using it. 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs: [copyright.gov]
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Noone bothers to see what Warden Does (Score:4, Insightful)
Warden uses something similiar to a HASH function to get information about the processes run on your computer. Warden sends the HASH home. The HASH is compared against a list of known hacking processes, like WoWGlider, and if theres a match, you're being very naughty!
Is that REALLY the end of the world? NO! Blizzard can NOT discern any information from a HASH.
Heres an MD5 HASH of a file on my desktop, what is it? Quick, get my personal informationz!
070A3B2AF0070DE30B1931B9F2590510
Re:Noone bothers to see what Warden Does (Score:5, Funny)
--- --
0A3 = Beastiality 05 = Washington State
I believe sir, that you may be in violation of the law?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Noone bothers to see what Warden Does (Score:4, Insightful)
This is just another case of blowing shit out of proportion. I mean, seriously, try thinking logically for 2 seconds. It might help.
Shooting their own foot... (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Not true. This is pure botter FUD.
Even one of the WOWGlider devs, when they wrote up their analysis of Warden, provided zero evidence that Warden sends back to Blizzard anything more than an indication that "this is the known hash key that Warden matched". All the processing is done on the client machine, and zero copyrightable, private, personally-identifying data is sent back to Blizzard as a result of this processing.
Is this really necessary? (Score:2)
Regardless.... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why I will never, ever, play another FPS, online
I have admined many game servers (q1, q2, cs) and worked hard to stop cheating with all the tools (punk busters, etc.). I even ran an anti-cheating game site years ago (anyone remember slipgate central? no I didn't run that, but one of my little sites was listed).
I also did an write-up on the zbot in q2. I installed and used it. I pwned players effortlessly. It was disgusting. I ran around gathering health and power-ups and the bot did all the work while the whole server tried to kill me. It was sick fun, but it's lame.
Showeq was the first big exploit for mmorpgs. It was lame. With it, the punk could get any unique mob in a zone before anyone else. How is that fair? How was it fair for the people without a 2nd computer, or without linux knowledge to set it up?
This article may be all about the legal ins and outs of who has access to what in ram, but the bottom line is, cheaters blow. If you cheat you blow. You're feeding a primal part of the human psyche at the expense of others and undermining the entire event. When it all crumbles and dies, you are to blame.
Using a bot to lvl or farm in wow is lame. Don't do it. Let this guy's work die on the vine....
Re: (Score:2)
One time I ran 5 bots on a local private Lineage server. It was very fun to setup them so they would interact with each other. It was kinda like programming.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then you should know that it's utterly futile to ask or expect people not to exploit. The only - the only - solution is to design out the possibility of exploits. Any game that relies on the actioning entity's actions alone to determine an outcome is always exploitable. Always.
That's not very cheery news, but it's the way that it is, and I do wish everyone involved would skip the hair pulling and wailing and just accept it. You're always going to be playing catchup with the exploiters, and the more su
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Using a bot to lvl or farm in wow is lame. Don't do it. Let this guy's work die on the vine....
How about: wasting your life on something you've already done once is lame. Don't do it.
Blizzard just needs to let you create maxed or almost maxed characters if you already have a level 70 instead of forcing you to level through the same material over and over. If you could start a new character at level 50, that would give plenty of room to learn how to play the class. That's all they have to do to reign in the botting. You could make all the money you need from leveling alts to 70 and then doing the que
Stop wasting your time (Score:4, Insightful)
They know it harms other people and they do NOT care. No amount of words is going to change that and there is no point bothering. Cheating is a fundamental part of human nature. Maybe it's a good thing. A small amount of cheaters forces the rest of us to create protections, increase security, be more vigilant and "arm up". It makes us as a society more resilient and better prepared just as germs made us develop an immune system.
Diversity is vital to the survival of a species as anyone who's taken a biology course knows. Some of that diversity means cheaters, psychopaths, rapists and lawyers. They are a necessary evil and their contributions are vital to the very survival of the human race. They day everybody stops cheating, we should all be scared, very scared.
In conclusion, we really should be thanking cheaters for their invaluable services.
And right after we thank them, we should hang them. Afterall, if they got caught, they're weak and deserve to die.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It looks like 60-70 will also be that way. Yeah, its nice you can pull 40k - 50k XP/hour solo, but when you have 500,000+ XP to the next level, its going to take a while.
Somebody's got a greataxe to grind, apparently (Score:2)
A friend of Mine. (Score:2, Interesting)
A good friend of mine is "addicted" to this game. He has been playing for over a year now, and has leveled up 2 characters to level 70. So he wants to make a third character, but he doesn't want to play through all the lower missions. So he uses a bot, to gather some experience. If it wasnt for the bot, he probabl
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's already in there, don't worry. Apparently, Blizzard is just looking for a bigger stick to wave at potentian cheaters.
A good friend of mine is "addicted" to this game. He has been playing for over a year now, and has leveled up 2 characters to level 70.
Only ?
So he uses a bot, to gather some experience. If it wasnt for the bot, he probably wouldn't be playi
So don't play it until they change (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're not willing to do that, this obviously isn't THAT important to you.
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No data is sent.... (Score:2)
Sometimes singantures can be mis-detecte
Take2, anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, although it may be your right to manipulate your own RAM however you see fit, don't forget that if you manipulate the game to show a nipple or sexually suggestive positions, it is your parent's/crusader group's right to sue Blizzard for everything they're worth. Faced with the fact that Blizzard will be held liable for everything everyone else does to their game, what choice do they have but to pursue any messed up agressive ways of getting you to stop?
One can only reasonably assume that using such software would be your right. However, one would also reasonably assume that you are responsible for any modifications you make to game. I'm just saying that legal responsibilities surrounding software and computers are really fucked up. If I was a game manufacturer, I'd be scared to death of modders now that I've found out that the company can be liable for what they do. Thank you lawyers, crusaders, and politicians!
Also, you can at least say they are taking a pro-active, even if they overstepped here, approach to cheating. Cheaters wreck the game for everyone.
Challenge to the community (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, so here's how I see it all unfolding. Blizzard comes out with World of Warcraft, which immediately becomes a hugely successful MMORPG. And not only is it hugely successful, it happens to come into being at the same time that the real-world economy starts interfacing directly with the virtual economy of the MMO world. As a result, there are services that offer gold for cash, leveling services, etc...all of which incur unintended (and even destabilizing) economic effects on the virtual world. A rough analogy would be if people could sell their souls for sudden wealth or fame here, in a very literal sense of the world; something not of this world is being traded in return for something of this world, and giving those people a leg up over everyone else.
So, Blizzard has to figure out how to fix this. Obviously, they've done things to make it harder to goldfarm, in some respects. Fishing, which is an obvious activity that requires little input, is made harder to automate based on the requirement that you click on the fishing lure (which lands in a random location in front of you every time) when and only when it has a fish on it (which happens at a random interval after the time you cast the lure, or not at all). Combat is set so that if you're at a higher level than the thing you're killing, you get less credit for it; if there's such a difference that it's a ridiculously easy kill, you get nothing at all for your trouble.
But still, there are ways that something watching variables in memory could help a cheater. All you have to do is watch for the change in a variable, or the triggering of a function, when the fishing lure makes that splashy noise, and read (direct from RAM) the coordinates where the lure is, and you can have a piece of software click on it for you. I'm something of a WoW noob, so I'm sure there are other ways as well, including manipulation involving mining, auction house market manipulation, etc. Heck, if you had computers work together in concert, you could have a whole group of low-level characters team up on one larger-level NPC and kill it for a big bounty in both XP (for sale as a leveling service) and silver/gold (for sale as gold). The reason the maximum party size that can do quests/gain XP is 5 is just this, and it's not at all hard to imagine circumventing it by coordinating the systems to work together, where one online character is human-operated and the others just follow him automatically, attacking whatever attacks him.
So, Blizzard has a problem to fight. Since pretty much all of these techniques require a lot of manpower (which adds significantly to the labor cost of the goldfarming/leveling service and eats the profit) or reading variables from RAM, Blizzard decides to prohibit this tactic. But it's the same old situation in computer security, when it comes to things with tangible economic gain in the real world; the bad guys will evolve at least as fast as the good guys. So there needs to be a way to gather intel, to find out what the latest tricks are which are being used. And so Blizzard has Warden.
Now, a lot of people get up in arms about private corporations and privacy, and rightly so. There are numerous companies that maintain databases of our information, selling it to whoever wants it. Even worse, the organization that can harm us the most by invading privacy...our government...has been purchasing that information, conveniently skirting around the limits placed on them by law. But Blizzard isn't keeping a database of our personal information. We may happen to be doing online banking while WoW is idling in the background, but they're not culling/recording that information. And unlike the metaphor used in the article on Warden, no human being will ever see it. It's more like the person behind me at the checkout, or the cashier, being able to see my credit card when I take it out of my wallet to swipe it. I don't have a problem with that; I'm one of millions of people who d
Summary Incorrect (Score:5, Insightful)
- Loading WoW into RAM is creation of a copy.
- Your right as a user to create this RAM copy is pursuant to the ToS and EULA.
- Using cheating software violates the ToS/EULA.
- Therefore, a user no longer has the right to create the RAM copy of WoW while running WoWGlider.
Therefore, the DMCA/copyright slant is:
- WoWGlider is a tool that is defeating The Warden access control scheme with the sole use of creating a copy of WoW that infringes upon Blizzard's copyright.
This may or may not be a valid claim; the status of RAM copies of software is not entirely settled, but tends towards "it can be an infringing copy."
All of this would probably not have led to a lawsuit, except for the fact that WoWGlider is sold, for real money. Blizzard is trying to both destroy that particular cheating mechanism, and attach all of the profits made from it -- assuming the behavior is in fact ruled to be infringing.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 991 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993). This case, and the subsequent amendment of the US Code, has prompted a whole bunch of linguistic and legal fun regarding whether software users are purchasers or licensees, and what constitutes an "intended use." Regardless, a copy in RAM is considered sufficiently "fixed" to constitute a "copy" under the meaning of the term in federal law.
Y'all are missing something (Score:5, Insightful)
WoW allows mods, hell, it encourages them. However, any mod that makes it so you can "play the game" without being at your PC is explicitly forbidden. They've banned users of fishing bots before. You're supposed to be playing the game by sitting at your computer, and actively killing things. Yes, it's a time sink. All recreation is. If you're not having fun with it, go and do something else.
Glider bots/farmer bots do harm those who aren't using them. They consume server resources, making the game less responsive for everyone. They tag rare mobs, denying that kill and the resulting loot to "honest" players. They mine rare resources, again denying them to "honest" players. And the effects they have on the marketplace are demonstrable. For example, about a year ago, a botter discovered a speed/teleportation hack that made it possible to farm 16-slot bags (the largest bag in the game at the time). Instantly, the auction house price on those dropped from 30-40 gold to 5 gold. And there was no longer any market for any smaller size bag, which made it difficult for aspiring tailors to sell product (their bags). Similar hacks were found for other items.
Ban em all, find the people running them, and execute kill -9's on them. I don't mean their process, I mean them.
Sad (Score:4, Insightful)
It's one thing to cheat, but then to turn around and try to morally justify it like this, is just pathetic. This has nothing to do with software freedom. Blizzard is simply using the tools before them to try and protect the integrity of their game.
Another approach: WHY are people cheating? (Score:3, Insightful)
First the "I wanna win" cheater. You find that kind usually in shooters, using aimbots, wallhacks and other tools to balance their lack of skill. Now, a cheat like that would be of little use in MMORPGs. Your toon hits or misses based on some mathematical probabilities, not your aim. At best, it could be used as some kind of "radar" to find some mobs faster, which is (unless we're talking PvP here) more something that I'll discuss with the third kind.
Then there's the item and money grabber. The person using bots to get money or items. Which basically is quite pointless in WoW, because any item you could farm alone is pretty much worthless in the long run. At best, this would be interesting for plat farmers, but not for "normal" players who'd actually like to play the game.
Which gets us to group 3, which is IMO also the group using glidebot mostly: The "get me outta the grind hell and let me finally play the game" players. And that is not only the player's fault. If a game only offers you interesting and sensible content after 2-3 months of mindless grinding, I wonder if it's worth playing.
So the suit of Blizzard is understandable: That bot "costs" them 20-30 bucks per toon a player levels, since that much longer they'd play without Blizzard having to offer them any new bones to chew on.
Oh please. You don't HAVE to grind (Score:5, Insightful)
Grind... what? XP? Take it from first hand experience, there are plenty of quests and instances to get you from level 1 to 70. I can't say any of my characters ever had to start mindlessly grinding NPCs for XP.
The ones who grind there, are simply grinding because of their own "I _must_ get to level 70 _fast_" delusions. A lot of people seem to have this crazy idea that the game starts at level 70 (or previously 60), and that everything before it must be skipped as fast as possible. Guess what? That's wrong. Levels 1 to 69 are the actual game. Level 70 is where the game _ends_. That's it. You finished it. You've seen all the content. Go out, do something else, or start a new char.
So all these people who try to skip levels 1 to 69 are really skipping the whole goddamn game and content they've bought. Whether by getting power-levelled or by spending hundreds of hours mindlessly slaughtering wolves and boars, that's what it is: skipping the actual story, quests, everything that was the actual game on that DVD.
That's all that such bots do: allow you to skip the actual game. Congrats. You're now level 70, you skipped the "grind", except there's no more game for you to actually play at that point. That "grind" was the actual game, or rather a piss-poor substitute for it. You just bought a game for your bot to play. I hope you liked that bot a lot, at least, because it had the fun you were supposed to have.
And blaming it on Blizzard just takes brain-damage to whole new levels. Blizzard sure as heck didn't force them to skip 99% of the content in the game.
Grinding for money or equipment? Again, sure as heck noone forced them to. It _is_ possible to play the game without buying a new set of blue-quality equipment every 2 levels. Replacing a sword with one that does 1 DPS more won't really make you T3H UB3R-W4RR10R. Replacing a +10 int robe with a +11 int one won't make you the uber-mage.
Stick with that equipment until the upgrade is really worth the cost. Don't think in terms of "is a +11 int robe worth 10 gold." Think in terms of "do I want to pay 10 gold for a 1 point increase over what I already have?" You'll find your expenses might actually go down a helluva lot.
In fact, if you really want to, you can get to level 70 without using anything more than drops and quest rewards.
Again, people just create that illusionary trap in their own mind, and get stuck in it. They end up enacting a bad case of consumerism in an online world. They think there's some _duty_ to keep up with the Joneses, when most of the time noone will give a damn about whether your robe is 1 point weaker than the Joneses' robes. Cue farming for gold, or buying gold, just to blow it at the AH on stuff they don't even really need.
Again: not because Blizzard somehow forced them to grind, but because of something that exists only in their own head.
The exception to both, as I was saying, was the crap level 60 endgame grind. Guess what? That was after the game had actually ended. It wasn't the meat of the game, it was one last dry bone for people who didn't know when to quit. The actual game had pretty much ended, the content was over, you had already done the quests and seen the zones. All that remained was doing the same pointless raid again and again, just so you can pay Blizzard for another month.
Skipping (by grind, PL, or bot) the levels 1 to 59 just to get stuck into the MC grind was one of the most idiotic things one could do. It was akin to having a bot finish Oblivion for you, just so you can view the endgame credits again and again for 6 months straight. That stupid.
Shouldn't less people be playing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but if we have to pick between expansion of copyrights and some people cheating at a stupid game, I'm going to side with the cheaters. Preventing cheating in an online game is not a cause worthy of limiting access to general purpose computing for.
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That being the case, it's hard to see why Blizzard wouldn't use the law to do what it's designed to do.
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There are other legal remedies for dealing with WOWGlider, including tortious contract interference for soliciting people to violate the game's TOS, which results both in lost revenue from banned players as well as lost revenue from players who quit out of disgust with rampant cheating. While the monetary damages from this may not be easily calculable, the real intent would be to get an injunct
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1. Gambling is regulated by the state. A better example would be something like chess. The chess club could kick you out or fine you if you wanted to stay, but unless you signed a legally binding contract, they couldn't go any further.
2. If it was any other EULA (possibly even other clauses of WoW's), you probably wouldn't give a rat's ass about it.
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I think you read me as a blizzard fanboy, which is not the case. This would be my mentality for any online game, and especially online games where this form of cheating can be a way to make money. If people want to cheat in a single player game, (or in a multiplayer game where everyone has agreed to allowing the cheats) its fine with me. I always maintain that if I meet a cheater I will destroy them, and their computer. I look forward to the day that I bludgeon someone to wi
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In backgammon, you can usually take measures against people who cheat (anything from a good kickin' where it hurts to not playing with them anymore). In WoW, you don't have that option.
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Seriously, there's no reason to get the law involved and set bad legal precedent.
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Why should I be forced to stop playing any game I like (poker, backgammon, WoW) in order to avoid cheaters ? This does not make sense. At all.
Re:It's simple (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that Blizzard (and their legal department have always been MUCH less cool than their coders, sadly) has decided to try to use the law to force people to not cheat. This is dubious at best, the way they're trying to do it, and sets frightening legal precident if they win.
If they win, then any attempt to analyze and modify a running program would constitute copyright violation. That means that programs which debug, dissassemble and tweak performance of running programs would no longer be allowed on 3rd party software. It would also bring into question the relationship between emulators and the software they run. Mame, Wine and a number of other projects might be useless if this becomes precident.
Cheating in WoW is one thing. Setting precident that hurts consumers is another.
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Here's a thought: what if I run WoW in a VM? We should be able to do that soon, the hardware and software are certainly getting to that point. Now that would impose a whole slew of issues to WoW, since they'd have no control outside of their sandbox. They really don't have that control now, honestly, but it's more work than most are willing to put in to make it happen.
The real answer is for Blizzard to make the game enjoyable to play, instead of rewarding "face tim
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The whole idea that cheaters are a game flaw is absurd; if a game has goals, there are people who will want to take a shortcut. They'll do it for greed, they'll do it because they're lazy, and they'll do it because they want recognition that they haven't earned.
What's the solution? To have a game with no goals? It'd b
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I don't know if anyone remembers trying to play Diablo (the first one) multi-player. It was fun for the first week or two, and then the cheats started showing up. Hacks a
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What's that you say? You bought the game of your own free will and could stop playing it at any time? I never would have guessed.
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I have no issue with someone cheating/moding the heck out of a single player game - the only person it affects is the player. Once you go online though - your cheating affects me and everyone else playing online, and therefor i am completely against it.
anyway i wish i had some mod points - mod parent post UP!
Re:In Summary.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Cheaters == terrorists? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that in the USA it's a popular opinion in certain circles that suspects of terrorism should be stripped of all of their rights, but to extend it to cheaters is something really new.
Seriously: a groundless lawsuit is a groundless lawsuit even when the defendant is a slimeball. In the USA's precedent based-system this is even more important since the precedent set by this lawsuit will apply to non-slimeballs, too.
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If a quarterback were to break huddle to shoot up some steroids right there on the field, it wouldn't take a mobile testing lab to determine he was cheating.
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If you're going to go to war against a company like Blizzard, you should make sure you've paid your lawyers' retainer first. I have no pity for the folks that produce WoWGlider. They've brought this on themselves.
--AC
what do the teenagers have to do with it? (Score:3, Interesting)
then again, you could argue that if you're bored, you should find something else to do. if your enterta
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I've reported the obvious ones but the GMs don't seem to do much about it. You just get a canned response that they "are looking into it." Since that doesn't work, (on a PvP server) you can take matters into your own hands and kill the bot a few dozen times to break its loop. They get confused really easy if you kill it a few times and it ends up in a spot it doesn't know it just kind of freaks out.
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They do spam using whispers with trial accounts, advertising the goldselling sites (WTB [Auto-Ignore Whispers From Trial Accounts Option] which would neatly solve that one), but they never bot with them. They actually have to pay for their accounts.
However, since it costs around $30 for an account, and that's the market price of about 1000 gold, the botting probabl
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Try UI addon called Spam Sentry [wowace.com] for that. It'll block the messages automagically and record them. You can then instruct it to fill out and send a GM request with the relevant information to report the spammer. It'll also let you manually report botters.
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If this is indeed what the Chinese farmers are doing - repeatedly logging on with the free accounts to quickly bot-mine/farm then are either of these viable solutions?
Re:Bots vs. anti-virus - probably wrong (Score:2)
Reverse engineering is not illegal. (Score:3, Informative)
Reverse engineering is not illegal.
It may be a violation of the terms of the EULA, but it is not illegal, and it is not a violation of copyright, or the DMCA. (Standard Disclaimer: IANAL).
Furthermore, I would argue that a computer owner cannot legally be stopped from looking at their own machine. For example, what if WoW was being used (surrepetitiously) to traffic child porn? Would the WoW EULA be a legal defense for the owner of the computer? That he was contractually prevented from looking at
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Actually, the "Do not disassemble" clauses (or reverse engineer) overstep the bounds of copyright. If I purchase a product, it is mine to do with as I please. Copyright, patents, etc. only come into effect if I in turn try to sell the same product (a copy) or a product that does the same thing and uses some of the code (patent infringement). Court rulings have revoked the power of this clause and technically they don't actually mean anything.
A good article on EULAs overstepping their legal authority is on
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5. Consent to Monitor. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE GAME... http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html [worldofwarcraft.com]
That constitutes authorization.
Leading headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that's not a leading headline. Thanks for telling me what to think, Slashdot!