Some States Say National ID Cards 'Make Life Easier' 287
VE3OGG writes "Some places, like Maine, have outright rejected the idea of a nationally mandated ID card amid privacy, legal and security concerns. On the other side of the fence some states, such as California and New Jersey, have said that they welcome the National ID card and that it will make 'life easier'. One New Jersey official said 'All you are getting in e-government for the most part are things that don't require strong two-factor identification,' the official said referring to security that requires something beyond a user name and password. 'But as we move forward and start to deliver more and more complicated services, I think that people for the most part will want to know their government has implemented strong measures [with National ID cards]'."
Life easier? (Score:2, Insightful)
When are we going to officially change our flag to red white and black as it is increasingly being designated?
BLAUSCHEIM BITTE!!!
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Which supports implicitly my point as to the futility. No ID system is going to be entirely foolproof. IDs can be faked, and security for them can be hacked, so restricting rights even further is a futile measure with no endgame other than a police state.
as for crossing state lines, i doubt there will ever be an ID necessary for that unless the government wants to put checkpoints on every crossing. which would never happen.
If we go too much further down this road, it will become a financial issue for the states and will place pressure on the states to "secure" their borders, so don't count on it not happening.
Make _WHAT_ easier for _WHOM_?? (Score:3, Insightful)
part will want to know their government has implemented strong measures [with National ID cards]'."
I don't think we want more and more complicated services nor do we need them. We don't want to be tracked,
x-rayed, data-mined or subpoenaed by email. Actually we want less interference in our lives.
34 States have turned down a national ID card.
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Could you send me a postcard from your world?
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:1, Insightful)
How dense does one have to be?
"When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Playing on fears (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:1, Insightful)
and
"Before any of you ultra-right wing neocon folks start bashing me"
Does everyone have to be so pejorative all the time? Are are these the only kind of people that could possibly disagree with you?
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I guess we know your politics. Seriously though, statements like these are simply non-starters that close off the dialogue before it can even start. So, you are telling me that you are gleefully giving away your rights to privacy of your person and documents, happy to waive your rights to travel without being identified or tracked, and more?
If so, you sir, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Identity As Security (Score:2, Insightful)
There's also no reason to assume that, unique among all other ID cards, the National ID will be unforgeable, or that even if it is, the staff employed to verify that an ID card is legit will do their jobs. Government employees are the lowest common denominator in the best case, and ID checking unskilled zombies aren't likely to be any better.
Identity is not security, and LACK of identity is not a lack of security.
Some thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)
"But what about Big Brother?"
Does anyone here honestly think that any Federal Law Enforcement Agency can not access all of the information tied to your Drivers License?
"What about my privacy?"
Once again, how does this lessen your privacy? You willfully submit all of this information to your State to obtain an ID card or drivers license. Once again do you honestly think the Feds can not access this already?
"What about my guns?"
Once again when you purchase that weapon depending on the type and or State you reside in, you willfully fork over all sorts of personal information to the government.
Ok now lets think about convenience for a few minutes. Having lived all over the Country for work I have had to switch my drivers license from State to State. I moved from one State to another and getting my new license was a breeze $15 and 10 minutes of my time, however when I moved back to my home State a few years later I was forced to pay a large fee and retake the written exam over again; then wait 6 weeks for the new one, even though my out of State license was valid. What if you never had to do that again?
What if when a police officer makes a traffic stop on an out of state vehicle he was actually able to, with a high degree of certainty, identify the person? There are numerous accounts in law enforcement of wanted criminals going unnoticed because a small local agency was unable to identify the person.
States who object to this aren't trying to protect your privacy or security, they are protecting the revenue that they generate through licensing fees. If you disagree with that, please before you rip on that point I encourage you to take a walk over to the DMV and grab a copy of the fee schedule. Look closely at the number of various fees and the amounts. All of those fees are set by each individual state. A unified system would also mean level fees across all states, which would be set by the Feds and not the individual States.
Just a little food for thought...
Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (Score:3, Insightful)
The government should never be trusted!
George Washington (1732 - 1799)
Government Like Fire
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
It is not the governments job to ID me, tag me, or give a flying F**K what I do, provided I do not infringe on others rights.
What is the government's job?
Try this
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed.
The government's job is to secure our rights, not to remove them!
So, while you accept the ID cards, I do not! While you accept restrictions on your rights (To keep and bear arms), I do NOT! While you accept restrictions on your rights, I resist them! I will continue to resist them tell the day I die.
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:3, Insightful)
But not deficits. $100B in 1981 shot up to $250B by 1984. Seems like GWB is following in his footsteps. It's pretty easy to keep taxes low when you are sticking someone else with the bill.
Easy button (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What happened??!??!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Makes life A LOT easier for totalitarian govts (Score:3, Insightful)
Once you have accomplished the mammoth task of creating a central index numbering all citizens, it is a short step to make any classification of them you want.
Another incorrect assumption is that govts only want to persecute nationalities/races. They're much more likely to persecute political opposition.
Just missed it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Close. I think you've actually got it, but I think the question is just a bit more general. Ultimately, it boils down to:
Do you trust the government and any government thereafter to protect you from corporate interests, identity theft, corruption in government (and elsewhere), and the government itself? The answer is almost certainly no, right?
I'm all for a government issued standard ID (even a global standard) if:
-It is opt-in. I mean completely opt-in. You can not get one and your life will just be a little less convenient (like having a university give you an ID number rather than using your social). You can get one, but pick and choose where you use it.
-Some kind of guarantee that the ID will not suffice as the sole evidence of guilt. (E.g. the fact that your ID was used to access an ATM should not, per se, be evidence that you robbed it.)
-Privacy laws are updated such that only first parties have access to any information they gather on you. (Except for law enforcement who _must_ get a warrant.)
Since all of these are probably barring radical social/political change, I say "no thanks" to the convenience offered.