British Cops Hack Into Government Computers 247
CmdrGravy writes "The British Police have hacked into Government computers as part of the on-going 'cash for peerages' investigation. They've uncovered evidence which has, so far, led to one arrest and charge of perverting the course of justice for a leading Labour party figure. This charge carries a potential life sentence. The British police have the power to hack into computer systems as part of an investigation. On previous occasions they have said they did not believe the government was providing them with the information they had been asking for and had warned that they would seek other methods to gather evidence. The police won't say what tools they have used. From the article: 'The investigators did not have to notify No 10 if they were "hacking" into its system. One legal expert said: "In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorization of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."'"
That's Hot (Score:5, Funny)
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Curiosity (Score:3, Interesting)
Is the approval that the british cops gained:
"In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorisation of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."
The same basic idea? Or is this a change, or what not. Basicly can some one more familiar with the british legal system explain this?
thanks.
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Systems belonging to private individuals or companies would still be safe unless a court order were issued (atleast I would really hope so!!)
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Really the lesson here is that the British can fool an American by replacing a word with its definition.
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Re:Curiosity (Score:4, Informative)
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Just one of my fav'rite net things..
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I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:5, Interesting)
But now that these "computer experts" have done this once with police blessing, had a nice look at the systems I wouldn't wonder if they could do it again without the blessing or knowledge of the police.
From the article it doesn't look like the sys-admins at Downing Street have been all that involved in this, I sure hope they have now been notified of how this was done and whatever way was used to get into the systems have been closed.
One could suspect that with the police having known these/this "computer expert(s)" it might be an indication that it wasn't a white hat they got hold of, but really that is just speculation, it might also have been a white hat person.
Anyhow I know nothing but what it says in TFA, which really isn't a lot, but for the sake of british security I sure hope this has been done in a sensible way.
Re:I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:4, Informative)
With the appropriate authority, the police can do things that your everyday hacker on the street might find very difficult, e.g. gain physical entry to Downing Street, so there's no reason that there would be a gaping hole waiting for black-hats to enter through.
There are several organisations in the UK that regularly do IT security work for the ministry of defence, the police and the security services and have staff who are cleared to high security levels. I worked for Detica [detica.com] about 10 years ago and I think that they would have had the capability to assist in this kind of thing then, don't know if they still do. Qinetiq [qinetiq.com] might be another firm that would have people with relevant expertise.
Re:I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am sure they have some very good staff being that they invented the idea of codebreaking using computers over 60 years ago.
Also worth noting that after RSA came out and published their work on public key cryptography GCHQ admitted they had known how to do it but kept it secret. This page has some decent info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographer [wikipedia.org]
Anyone pointing out that the refences to GCHQ are all very old should also know that they would never dream of telling anyone else if they had cracked every encyrption method known. Why create more work for yourself when your primary role is listening in to other peoples communications?
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"Have you heard this awful nonsense about the 'cash for peerages' evidence? Old Chigwell just isn't playing the game at all. It's a dreadful bore."
"Oh I wouldn't worry about that old fellow. Have a whisky.
I'm sure we can work something out."
Much like an episode of "Yes, Minister".
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"Who?"
"Top... men."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/quotes [imdb.com]
Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Funny)
+1 caustic humour (Score:2)
At least the British Upper House is funny...Canada's is sad. As far as I can tell, in Canada not only to "completely undeserving people" get senate appointments from time to time, as far as I can tell it wouldn't even be illegal for someone to buy a seat in the senate from the PM. At the very least the ability to use old-school hereditary peers in Britian for political manipulation is a BIT limited. Canada has never had heredi
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Instead they can just do a decent job, and keep the lease-my-soul politicians honest.
Sam
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The 1999 Human Rights Act incorporates the ECHR into UK law, so there is no need for any UK citizen to go to Strabourg, the UK courts will hear your complaint.
Re:Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Informative)
I know it sounds laughable on the face of things, but the real problem is that the Labour Party got the money, which they then used to (partially) fund their election campaign, and once they won the election, they started handing out these peerages to the people that gave them money.
It's a case of a political party abusing their authority for the benefit of the party and not the government or the people.
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-Eric
What's wrong with the UK? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Well, there is the matter of physical access, of course. Lots of police working in Downing Street and other government and party premises on - ostensibly - security/protection duties etc. I'd like to see your "teenage neighbor" stroll in there and connect up a PC...
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But probably wouldn't need that since there's a wireless access point somewhere around there.
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Whoever modded the GP up as interesting and insightful was obviously smoking as much crack as the GP was. Mod down please, for the love of common sense and decency!
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The Grand Parent of my original post on this topic was the parent to your post.
In short, I liked your post and didn't like the post you originally replied to.
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Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Funny)
Worringly, I would say it's quite likely there's a compiled VB4 package somewhere that runs under Win95 on an old Compaq 486 (DX, yay!) that has a tickbox marked 'Have you asked the Americans if it's OK?' that then enables a big red button that does the deed. Worse still, it's 30 lines of code, a 3rd party OCX (From the 'Custom Nuclear Controls Corporation') and cost £3.5bn to develop by a consortium of consultancies. Oh, and they lost the source code and the PC isn't backed up.
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That's a feature, not a bug.
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You seem to underestimate British Police. You probabally shouldn't.
"They are probably using pretty basic hacking methods to hack into government computers. "
Who was it cracked Enigma without a computer again? And they probabally have the best tools available.
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Informative)
It was the Poles who cracked the first two rotors of Enigma without computers.
It was the British Navy who captured the rest of the rotors and the code-books.
It was Turing and Flower who built the first electronic programmable computer that enabled a theoretical crack to be actually used in real-time to read German traffic and produce ULTRA.
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Poles originally cracked three rotor Enigma.
The Germans made it more secure (by adding two new rotors so the daily key used three rotors from five).
The Poles realised they didn't have the resources to crack Enigma anymore and handed everything over to the British.
The British (esp. Alan Turing) enhanced the cracking methods including building an electro-mechanical device called a "bombe" to help with the key cracking (NB, the Polish also had such a device, but the British version was much improved).
The German Navy used a four rotor enigma and much stricter key generation protocols such that for much of the war it could only be cracked by capturing daily keys from u-boats etc.
Colossus, the first electronic programmable computer, was built to crack a completely different cipher called Lorenz. Alan Turing had very little to do with that. NB, I'm fairly sure Colossus was not Turing complete. The engineer who designed Colossus was Tommy Flowers.
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Funny)
I think I'm safe in saying it wasn't the Metropolitan or City Police.
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Of course, the Turing Police ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_Police [wikipedia.org] ) are on the job now but the British police and the British in general were the idiots in the 1950's. Hmmm
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grumble, I am almost sure that Wiki article is wrong, Freeside is NOT a casino, it would be close to calling it a resort town. And blade runner has nothing to do with the Turing Police (and thus Neuromancer), aside from both taking place in Cyberpunk worlds.
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Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Informative)
they followed the white rabbit (Score:2)
Yeah, they were held up for a moment when none of his kids' birthdays was the password, but then they realized it was his anniversary in reverse.
Police used computer experts... [telegraph.co.uk]
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The fundamental rule of corrupt politicians is that they are corrupt, because they are lazy and stupid, and have obtained power through means other than being clever and working hard (ie. lying, and being well-connected).
The idea of PAYING someone to do the hard work of securing their computers is an anathema to them. They would rather spend their money BRIBING the police to not investigate them. Unfortunately for them, they seem to have stumbled o
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What's double-triple-funny and ironic is that this was done under laws that this government brought in, eroding centuries-old civil liberties and legal precedent, to bolster their War on Terror. You know, the old argument that "terrorist suspects" don't have the same "rights" as everyone else, so you have nothing to fear. The laws were never going to be used against white middle-class^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hh o nest, hard-working members of the public.
Ho hum.
As for the computers being insecure,
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No, London [google.co.uk] is the home of (New) Scotland Yard...
Interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
I do find it quite hypocritical that the British Government have such power a
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1) It's a Labour government being accused of selling Peerages when it is really only them who have ever been opposed to this idea.
2) Various members of the Labour party moaning that Ruth Turner is a lovely lady and that its in extremely bad taste to go around to arrest her at 6AM in the morning with 4 police officers. This is a bit like saying to the police who are arresting you for a blatant crime "Don't you have any real criminals to
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It would be funny (though I'm not suggesting likely, as the second part of the bill hasn't come in yet I believe) if Jack Straw got put in the position of having to provide a password/phrase for some account/key or other that he had either forgotten or ne
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In fact (Score:3, Informative)
get some of your own (Score:2, Insightful)
Must end have run out of cliches.
Here's some more (Score:2)
Hacking as a job + Seeing hacker crime = ??? (Score:2)
Use the RIP act on them (Score:2)
I think that the RIP act alows the police to demand your password.
If you do not provide this information the sentance is a long term in gaol.
Labour party? (Score:2)
Why am I not surprised? (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, I shouldn't be shocked. They've lied about funding, the health service, taxes and just about everything else... they'd be the first to try and protect their own livelihoods when it came to the crunch.
Is it just me, or is my country going to the dogs? Or is it just that there is no such thing as an honest politician?
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Going? Wrong tense.
What I find most sad is that when Blair et al first came to power, they were a genuine breath of fresh air compared to the previous Tory incumbants and for the first year/18months they did a lot of really good stuff. Somewhere along the line though they just turned in to carbon copies of those they replaced, if anything worse. I can't think of any aspect of the labour government which doesn't have a whiff of hypocracy, corruption or
Re:Why am I not surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe it's your Chicken Little attitude, and your tarring of all politicians with the same brush. No-one was charged or convicted with anything here, yet you've already jumped on a bandwagon and declared them guilty. Even if they are guilty that doesn't mean there aren't many more local politicians and MPs, etc who are really trying to make life better for their constituants.
In a democratic society the politicans are the employees of the people. They are a reflection of the people's own strengths and weaknesses. If an employee in your company is suspected of stealing you don't declare all of your employees to be thieves, or would you? Politics is no different even if you're of the opinion that you're helpless and can do nothing.
The fact that the police have no problem going to these measures to investigate possible criminal actions within the government is a sign that this country is far from "going to the dogs", and is exactly how a democratic country should be run, where the politicians live in fear of the people's disapproval, and not the other way around. I'm not afraid of anyone in Parliament - are you? We put them there, we can get rid of them. If they break the law, we'll deal with them. That's democracy.
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Of course a government covers things up. It's got statutory authority to guard national secrets. What you mean, I guess, is that the government is covering up something which should be disclosed because of fear of embarrassment. In which case, I'll simply ask for your evidence (related to the honours for loans accusation) and await an answer. (Note: answers like "They're all at it", or "Everybody knows its true" don't count as evid
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Or maybe they start that way, but once politicians they have power. Power corrupts... etc.
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The police won't say (Score:5, Funny)
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Britney Spears.
Yup, someone holding my eyelids open so that I had to look at another picture of Britney's cellulite? Or that "upskirt" shot of her rather ravaged beaver? It would have me confessing to anything.
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I keep reading about these shots of either her or Lindsey Lohan's 'angry beavers' from their recent commando nights out but I've never seen any. I clearly need to improve my Google skills.
I wonder... (Score:2)
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What is meant by "hacking"? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Fascinating (Score:2)
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The "hacking" may well turn out to be connecting or logging on using an admin password legally obtained.
I'm sure Number 10 has an IT admin (damn sure Tony doesn't do it himself) and fairly sure that said admin isn't exempted from RIPA compliance. If they went in under RIPA then (s)he's not necessarily allowed to even tell their superiors of th
The hack was actually easy because (Score:5, Funny)
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-Eric
Perhaps now they will understand (Score:4, Insightful)
How Convenient (Score:2)
It's nice to see rights being stomped on in another country for a change.
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This is getting rather serious (Score:5, Funny)
In the present case what is terrifying Government Ministers and senior figures in New Labour is that they may be charged with anti competitive behaviour and market manipulation - distorting the free market in peerages and other honours, and colluding with other honours suppliers. If the police start to suspect something like this has gone on, the Office of Fair Trading and the European Commission could get involved, and you know that when the Competition Directorate moves, terror strikes.
It is truly tragic. Britain was always famous around the world as the country that operated the most open and transparent market for honours of all sorts. Its a great pity it has come to this.
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Obvious! (Score:3, Funny)
Hacking tools used... (Score:2)
I'm sure it involved a large quantity of Xena tapes and Hot Pockets...
Update: (Score:3, Funny)
PC James Smith (now Lord Smith of Whitekirk) and Det Sgt Margaret Jackson (now Dame Jackson of Drumadoon) have said that nothing of interest was found. The supervising officer Det Insp Michael Parks (Now Lord Parks of Worth Matravers) stated that whilst nothing untoward had been identified, the procedures surrounding the "hacking" and its legality would be revised. "This revision is to be taken as the intrusion into downing street computers has caused undue distress and concern to members of the British government, and is therefore probably in contravention of the European Unions Human Rights Legislation" said a downing street media official Martin Smith-Spinalot. Lord Parks also noted that Mr John Hackeby, the home office official that had authorised the intrusion had been fired from the home office for theft of office supples and is in the process of being extradited to the United States due to his involvement in online gambling, terrorist funding and drugs trafficing, for which the US State department has said it probably has some sort of evidence, or could find some by strengthening or introduction legislation to allow it to do "anything it wants to do to fight bad things".
(just in case anybody missed it, the above is fictitious and intended as light humour)
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And then we can send you to a shari'a tribunal and afterwards watch the video of your beheading on YouTube.
That would be cool.
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Hey, Cheney! Is that you?
I didn't realize slashdot was an "undisclosed location"...
Re:lol (Score:5, Informative)
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England++
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...or Scotland, if you can stand the rain, cold wind, sarcasm, fried food and alcoholism.
Re:lol (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, the British system of government is fabulous.
Especially if you want to buy a peerage.
Re:That's no diff from American separation of powe (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not proposing that the British system is the paragon of integrity relative to the American system, but that's probably the best example you can give of the police correcting corrupt government behaviour, and it didn't work. Bush sends thousands of Americans to their deaths overseas, but the entire American political system sits on their hands.
But lie about a blowjob, and...
Re:lol (Score:4, Insightful)
Complaints are handled by the Independent Police Complaints Commission which is fully independent with its own investigators. Seats on the commission are not open to former police officers.
There are lots of things wrong with the way things are run in Britain, but policing isn't one of them.
An old joke makes that observation. In European heaven, the chefs are French, the engineers are German, the Italians are the lovers, the British are the police and it's all run by the Swiss. In European hell, the French are the engineers, the Germans are the police, the British are the chefs, the Swiss are the lovers, and it's all run by the Italians.
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In The UK.
What do you want?
Information.
Which side are you on?
That would be telling. We want information...
You won't get it.
By hook or by crook, we will.
Who are you?
The new Number Two.
Who is Number One?
You are Number Ten.
I am not a number! I am the Prime Minister!
Ha, ha, ha, ha...