Sex, Violence, Tension & Video Games 87
simoniker writes "Gamasutra has just posted an interview with author Gerard Jones, subtitled 'Sex, Violence, Tension and Comic Books,' in which the writer of 'Killing Monsters' talks about violence and games eloquently. When asked: 'What do you think it is in your work that resonates with the gaming community?', Jones comments: 'Video games have been so much under attack recently, that I think there's a certain nervousness. Most people in this business are very pleasant and non-confrontational and the fact that they are being reviled as the causes of crime, causes of violence, is disturbing. On the one hand, I think people want to know how to respond to those criticisms. But on the other hand, I think there's some genuine anxiety that maybe games have a bad side, maybe there is a problem, and how do we deal with any guilt or fear?' He goes on to suggest of attacks on gaming: "I would say now we're kind of at the tail end. If games continue to push boundaries, particular ones could come under attack. A lot of it's just the medium being around long enough that people have realized the world hasn't gone to hell.""
Same old same old (Score:5, Insightful)
Flash forward to the 80's when comics started going really adult in this country for the first time. Really dark, gory, and real. Congressional hearings? No. New standards? No.
And why not? Because they were just comic books. The same people who had read them as kids were running the country, and blew off the concerns of the few as unwarranted. Comics had been around forever, and nobody'd seen any ill effects, so what was the big deal? Not worth getting in a flap over.
The biggest thing against games right now is how new they are. You get these hugely violent movies, above and beyond the pale, and no one cares. Why? Because people grew up with movies. You understand whats going on there, there is no mystery...You can flash back to all the risque crap you watched in your youth, and know that it didn't warp you forever.
In ten, twenty, thirty years at the outside, video games will be completely accepted, and no one will give a damn when the new super realistic holographic blood & guts game comes out...Till then though, we're just going to have to suck it up, because the old fogies are still running things and they lack clue.
Bans kill something else instead (Score:5, Interesting)
We've seen it with every ban in existance. It is either impossible or inhuman to exercise orrectly, and it never kills what it intends to ban. Instead the world evolves and the ban is ridiculed, along with those supporting it. Why? Because it is an artificial attempt to lead people into streets they want to break out of. And eventually they do.
This is of course no argument for/against the reasoning behind the ban. I'm all for more educational and more natural games that do not involve sex and gore, but I also want to give sex and gore it's rightfull place in our human existance. I think sex is educational, as it tells something about the boundaries of our perversities. I think gore is eductional, as it tells something about the boundaries of our fears. I think young people are looking for those boundaries and eventually, with our without help of their parents, will discover those in some way. Trying to hold these things back from them is keeping them from maturity in those fields. Declaring a ban is probably more distubing than anything else.
Re:Bans kill something else instead (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Sex and gore" have been the predominant features of nature for hundreds of millions of years.
Your statement is correct as you use the past tense. For the last few centuries, and in ever increasing amounts, children are sheltered from both until they become adults. When they finally do encounter these matters years after they should have it comes as a shock to their world views. It is emotionally destabling to them when they discover just how much of the world revolves around "sex and gore". So what the grandparent seems to be trying to say is that the kids should receive, in moderation, the exposu
Re:Same old same old (Score:4, Funny)
What do you mean? There have been vocal opponents of violence in movies for decades. Same goes for TV, and I'm guessing they were successful because TV today is a lot less violent than it was in the 80's. Video games are not, and have never been, the sole targets for the anti-violence crowd.
Re:Same old same old (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent's groups decry violence in movies, but it's not to the degree that they get outraged toward games...A movie that was exactly the same as GTA San Andreas would barely show up as a blip on their radar.
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The people who decry violence in video games have given up on films. That's why most of the high-grossing films in the last few years are PG. Admittedly, even PG films tend to have some violence; parental action groups in America tend to worry more about sex, and about violence in films that look "innocent."
As for movies just like GTA San Andreas: I think that, if they ex
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Just as Vice City was inspired by the crime dramas of the 80s, GTA:SA was inspired by the urban movies [ugo.com] of the 90's. Those movies were widely screened, and generally well received.
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Also, most of those films were all but restricted to inner-city theaters when they came out. Trust me, I heard the controversies about Boyz in the Hood and Menace II Society. The only one that I don't think got ghettoized in its time was Casino, and that is because it was by Scorcese.
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Huh? (Score:2)
They are obviously not doing very well, as I haven't seen a movie aimed at kids in the theaters that did not have what most would consider inappropriate material in a very long time. Heck, in Shrek 2, they had a guy giving himself a hummer in the castle courtyard. Now, I'm all for blowjobs in movies, and I am pretty liberal about what I would allow my kid to watch, but many of the "kids" m
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Actually, I think that the theory behind including multiple-entendres in children's films is that it'll whiz above the heads of the young and innocent; after all, many of those films move quickly enough that it's hard to dwell on any one such thing. The filmmakers bother because they seem to think the hidden-in-plain-sight ref. will add "pleasure" for older viewers who do get it. They don'
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Admittedly, though, they do the same for games. So why can't we leave well-enough alone and hope parents pay attention?
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There is a fundamental distinction between watching a movie for two hours and role-playing it's central character for days or weeks on end. You might want to read Gene Wolfe's cautionary tale "When I Was Ming the Merciless."
Re:Same old same old (Score:4, Informative)
I just have to know, who is your cable or satellite provider on your planet? Because on my planet I see shows like the CSIs, Prison Break, 24, Supernatural, Buffy/Angel, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica. (Not, of course, counting stuff like Deadwood, Rome, Sleeper Cell, etc etc on the premium channels)
These shows generally don't have the same bullets/hour ratio that shows like the ATeam or Miami Vice did back in the 80s, but they all feature far more violence.
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The relative lack of blood and gore in shows like The A-Team was to make the show suitable for a large family-oriented audience. (This is not the same as "appeals to": if it were, TV would not be as bloody as it is.)
Back in the '70s through much of the '80s, there was a convention of "family hour"--from 8 pm eastern/7 pm central to 9 pm eastern/8 pm central. There was also a strong push to minimze violence on TV, or at least the explicitness of that vio
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TV is less violent because the market wishes it so. Advertisers want less violence because the people they want to sell their wares to want it. It's got nothing to do with government censorship, which is what TFA was about, and everything to do about What The Market Wants, which is what Slashdot seems to advocate, unless the market wants something else.
Not to mention that it's becoming more violent, lately. Anyone notice the violence in Heroes?
Re:Same old same old (Score:4, Interesting)
Violence yes, sex no. (Score:3, Funny)
In California, we have our governor, the Terminator, coming out against violent video games. Arnold does have his amusing moments.
But to really push the critic's buttons in the US, you have to have sex. No game publisher in the US would publish the stuff Illusion [google.com] in Japan sells. "Battle Raper", "Sexy Beach", and "Artificial Girl".
Typical bugfix report: "Breast slider 1.5 download: With Ver1.0 was not possible, "it rubs", the chest and the nipple "it picks", "you play with the both hands", and so on c
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Not quite. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Comics in the late forties and fifties saw a massive decline in sales.
Content was stagnant. The kids began watching TV.
Adults were drawn to the raw pulp fiction paperback novels of Mickey Spillane and others.
The solution for some publishers was the horror comic. Sold for its shock value.
Sold off the same racks as Pogo, Casper and Scrooge McDuck.
You bought comics at the neigh
Nethack (Score:3, Interesting)
Chopping, bludgeouning, burning, crushing, eating corpses, seducing/being seduced by succubi and nymphs, looting shops and killing shopkeepers and soldiers, summoning demons in hell, you name it.
Very little of this kind of stuff actually goes on in these graphic video games, and when it does, it is *never* anywhere near as violent as what goes on in my imagination when I am playing a game like Nethack. Video cannot even begin to represent this level of madness.
Re:Nethack (Score:4, Funny)
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A grue? You been quaffing too many potions of hallucination?? I'm far more worried about getting eaten by those damned a's and q's
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Learning to get early Poison Resistance and Speed will make you laugh at yourself for ever being worried about them.
L's and R's still bother me, if I let them. Most players make the mistake of using Genocide. I consider that to be
a net balance at best, and I suspect it may be a net liability. You read that right -- I consider that going genoless
may indeed not be so much a challenge as a benefit. I've written on the subject ma
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As for genocide, well, I grant that it's about a half step above cheating, but after polypiling I have abcghmqrtvLMNPRTUVYZ; genocided with that unfinished wizard of mine. I have to think that geno is still a net gain for survivability if you take it f
Till Death Quote (not verbatum) (Score:1)
A good history lesson indeed. Not sure if video games cause violence as much as humans simply being violent... like many carnivorous mammals. But maybe video games make people less violent. Perhaps I don't need to beat people up because I get my kicks watching red pixels. It's hard to tell which way things go, but none the less society needs something specific to blame when problems arise
Not much more after this holiday season (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a friend whose retirement-age parents, who have never touched a video game before, were introduced to the Wii - and four hours later, it was my friend who had to call it quits because they tired him out. Soon the video game market will reach far beyond the young-single-male demographic and into the general population, at which point people will figure out that video games are no more or less harmful than movies, or even books. People may just finally realize that perhaps if they won't take 6 year old Johnny to see Silence of the Lambs, they probably shouldn't let him play Resident Evil either.
It won't be very long before the anti-video game nuts fade into oblivion.
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Here we go again... (Score:5, Funny)
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Had she done that in England you could have had her arrested for that. Go figure...
Re:Here we go again... (Score:5, Funny)
people have realized the world hasn't gone to hell (Score:2)
No problem with games (Score:3, Informative)
However, in most of the cases displayed by the media, the situation is usually:
- Overblown, such as the infamous "beating the hooker" in GTA - where such behaviour adds stars and very rarely is of use.
- An advertisement - 25 to Life was designed to parasitically exploit the media controversy.
- Moot, because the games in question are already rated for adults - no developer should have to tone their game designed to be rated 'M' just so that it can be played by teenagers.
- Inconsistant - people decry games at random for being violent, but none are as serious as Solder of Fortune which implements dismemberments, and various death animations (including hits to the neather region.) Likewise, 'R' rated films are given more leinant treatement.
- and/or Incorrect - Arlene wasn't named after a character in Doom.
If it weren't for the last two points, I would say something about Red-Pixel Syndrome.
The result is whenever I see an US state trying to pass a violent-video-game law, I immediatly treat it as a joke (especially when they know full well it won't survive the First.) This is in contrast to laws that were passed in Canada, which I agreed with since they brought video games on-par with other media.
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We are living in the same society (Score:2)
But god forbid that they have any alcohol before they are 21. Or see a violent movie or play a violent game before they are 18 (and get a taste of the hell that is war/violence. Even if they think it is fun at the time).
I sometimes think our culture and priorities are schizophrenic. Sometimes I
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2. Given that in most places prostitution is illegal hookers and criminals are one in the same. So don't go bitching at me about aggregating anything
3. Your "supposedly benign" vice comment cracks me up as piss poor justification for getting your jollies of however you like at the expense of others while throwing up the blinders on anything that would potentially make your little vice look bad. So by all means...please ignore what the drug trade does...or even better...go
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2. True; your aggregation with "low lifes", however, indicated not a legal definition of "criminal", but a moral one -- which I find myself disagreeing with.
3. Are farmers not exploited too, on some level? Should we ban the sale of vegetables because someone, somewhere, was the victim of violence? Or only if most farmers are? Or all? I draw a rather trenchant line between drugs and prostitution themselves and the background of murder, t
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Yeah it doesn't matter what kids see or hear... (Score:2, Interesting)
...so lets legalize smoking ads aimed at kids. Afterall, if behaviour and personality aren't affected by what people see and hear, then who cares about advertising laws.
To the people who think video violence doesn't matter: how do you know this? I am not a psych expert, so I cannot say anything with authority, but intuitively it seems a steady diet of narcissitic, solitary, violence oriented activity might affect child personality development.
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Is a 15 year old smoker less morally correct in your mind than a 20 year old smoker?
Stop trying to protect people from themselves. Taboo == attractive to the younger crowd. I'm convinced that if smoking were completely legal at any age (like alcohol is in some non-USA countries), and people didn't piss their pants about how evil it is, then there wouldn't be nearly as many smokers as there currently are.
As with all bans, it ultimately does not have th
Violence in games (Score:1)
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Some communities try to censor their porno shops. They set up rules mandating that XX% of all the content in there can't be any racier than in normal shops. They try to zone their city so that those shops can't be "in the middle of town." Of course, current law in Kansas is that you can't write zoning laws whose sole purpose is to prevent porn shops from setting up shop...
They don
Back in my day... (Score:2, Funny)
One of the best TV shows ever... (Score:2)
A post I made on a forum previously (Score:1)
Think about this, folks.
This
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Sex, Violence, AND Tension? (Score:1)
People need to blame themselves (Score:2, Insightful)
Video Games (Score:1)
An objective opinion (Score:1)
How Much is TOO Much? (Score:1)
Oops, forgot my subject (Score:2)
I've suffered a couple GMs that couldn't escape this philosophy in pen & paper D&D. Our party would come up with an ingenious way around some npc/encounter/boss, and the GM would basically "cheat" so that we'd have to fight it anyways. So in the end, you had to combat the big gahuna to win. This mentality causes the underdeveloped mi
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They did.
http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [puzzlepirates.com]
But it was created by a (then) no name company, so its release didn't get the frenzy that some games get. Still, the player base is growing.....