SCO Demands Linux 2.7 Information 410
dr_d_19 writes "According to Groklaw, SCO is now demanding IBM to turn over 'all documents concerning IBM's contributions to the Linux 2.7 kernel, including development work'. Of course, there is no 2.7 kernel and no plans at all to create one."
Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
--SCO
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds hot... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
I'd think that they'd be more concerned about blanket statements.
And in other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And in other news ... (Score:5, Informative)
If anyone is wondering what the hell is he talking about: John Titor [wikipedia.org].
Funny joke, BTW.
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:5, Funny)
Its on its way ... kind of. (Score:4, Informative)
Linux 2.7 kernel [kerneltrap.org]
Even if it is not necessarily in active development, people are talking about what they would like to see.
Re:Oh, there's a 2.7 kernel! (Score:3, Funny)
The 2.7 kernel and the Chewbacca "Defense" (Score:5, Funny)
But ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen, this [pointing to a picture of Chewbacca] is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! Why would a Wookiee--an eight foot tall Wookiee--want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!
But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense.
Look at me, I'm a lawyer from SCO, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating Linux source code... Does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.
If Chewbacca lived on Endor, you must convict IBM! The prosecution rests.
Okay . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Okay . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
We all know that Linus prefers the bazaar style software development methodology, but there is no guarantee that IBM doesn't have cathedral style GPL'ed development going on. They might be preparing to drop new code in the next version of the Linux kernel (there will be another one eventually).
There are plenty of kernel drivers, filesystems, and whatnot that can be developed (or at least started) without a completely clear understanding of the upcoming kernel architecture (provided at least a few essentials are the same, such as the monolithic design).
Nevertheless, SCO is stupid; point taken.
More like... (Score:5, Interesting)
WAIT! Before you hit that "FUNNY" mod!
SCO HAS demanded access to information/code that a developer (who may have existed) may have written on a computer that may not have been uploaded to a server because it may have been in a "sandbox" and THAT code may be the code necessary for SCO to "prove" its case.
Because maybe that maybe developer may have done something that may not have been allowed under a contract that may have covered what that maybe developer may have done on a machine that might have existed, in a sandbox that might have existed, that may not have any other record.
Re:More like... (Score:5, Funny)
Next SCO will be taking made-up pictures and satellite photos of filled-in dirt holes to the UN and saying that it's conclusive proof that IBM is evil and must be invaded.
Re:More like... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, at times, you almost have to feel some sympathy for the lawyers and judges trying to cypher this crap out. I mean, Jesus Christ, that nearly made my head explode.
Makes a lot of sense (Score:4, Insightful)
From SCO's point of view (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Okay . . . (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Okay . . . (Score:3, Funny)
Of course not ... (Score:5, Funny)
Everyone knows that linus is going "corporate", and playing the version game.
Next linux versions according to the roadmap:
Lets hope that biff, darl, and kevin don't read slashdot, or the jig is up!
Re:Of course not ... (Score:5, Funny)
We have a plan to keep this from happening and it involves extensive litigation against Linux Torvalds and his corporation IBM. The big blue has been infected and is to be financially quarantined until further notice. Only buy stocks from true red blooded American nations like Seattle where Microsoft is and Utah where SCO is and invest in your country. All Americna nations of the world unite against this threat!!! We will not let the communists win! We will not let the spirit of sharing without earning prevail!! We must fight back against the oppressors linke teh Linux Tovalds and teh BSD!!!!!! Join me!!!
Linux Version Numbers (Score:3, Informative)
Linus did come up with some whacky versions numbers at various points in the kernel history. In mid 1992 there was 0.95c+
Re:Of course not ... (Score:2)
Re:Of course not ... (Score:5, Funny)
Dude! Duke Nukem forever is so old-school. We stopped running that on the last generation of optical processors. Its "Duke Nukem: The Heisenberg Incident" thats all the rage on our quantum boxes.
The only problem is, half the time when I try to play it, I get "file not found". Damn Schrodinger!
Re:Of course not ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Lets try again ...
A lot of errors are based on faulty assumptions.
For example, people assume that something can only take 2 valid values, so they set a variable based on that.
However, a boolean that is not initialized should reflect that it is neither true nor false, but in an indeterminate state (and no, the default initialization should not count - you're then depending on default behaviour that may very well mask a mistake in your logic).
In other words, while it may hold either TRUE or FALSE, it may
Re:Of course not ... (Score:3, Informative)
The problem, one could say, is that people aren't using high-level languages enough. But I recognize that leads to religious wars.
Send 'em a box of blank paper (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Send 'em a box of blank paper (Score:2, Funny)
Better yet, a box of toilet paper.
No, not the nice soft stuff. The nasty cheap English stuff, that'll scrape open their bleeding haemorhoids, because its obvious these guys have been sitting on their brains for too long ...
And while you're at it, sprinkle some fibreglass insulation fibres in the box, to give them "the itch you can't scratch in public." Hopefully, they'll think they caught anal gonorhea (you gotta catch *something* after trying to fuck over millions of people).
Re:Send 'em a box of blank paper (Score:2)
Re:Send 'em a box of blank paper (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Send 'em a box of blank paper (Score:3, Funny)
SCO's retort (Score:5, Funny)
"Your Honour, we propose that there may be a Linux 2.7 kernel in... you know... that other dimension where Spock has a beard."
Re:SCO's retort (Score:5, Funny)
But when it comes out... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But when it comes out... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:But when it comes out... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Although, if SCO does push the "Linux 2.7" thing, which they may be stupid and/or high enough to do, it would be some nice smartassitude to jump a version number to piss them off.)
Re:But when it comes out... (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, hasn't it been traditional (at least recently) for stable branches to be even versions (2.2, 2.4, 2.6) and dev branches to be odd? Then I remember some story about breaking that tradition by putting experimental code right into the 2.6 branch. Given those two conditions, the next logical release WOULD be 2.8.
That was suggested on Groklaw... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That was suggested on Groklaw... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:But when it comes out... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe not as a big a deal as the article says? (Score:5, Insightful)
Document requests in discovery are governed by Rule 34 [cornell.edu]. One of the provisions of this rule is that the respondant has 30 days to answer the document request.
IBM will say "sorry, we don't have any of the documents you've requested because they don't exist"
Sure SCO looks bad, but i don't think this is a case of everybody "laughing so hard we won't be able to hear you if you mumble" as TFA suggests.
Re:Maybe not as a big a deal as the article says? (Score:4, Informative)
I suspected that this sort of BS was WHY SCO filed everything under seal- it'd be shown for the lame tripe that they've been shown to be holding in their hand up to this point. I think they may well have been handed all the rope they need and then some; I think there's some PSJ's in SCO's relative near future and a raftload of agony for the Principals on SCO's side in this whole debacle.
Well, at least one can HOPE that this will end finally soon enough.
The answer is easy (Score:5, Funny)
1) Hand them a blank piece of paper.
2) Attach a bell and a whistle to a CD containing the source for the latest 2.6 kernel.
I propose a patch for the hearing impaired (Score:2)
While they're at it... (Score:2, Funny)
So embarassing (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:So embarassing (Score:2)
I'm forced at this point to head off the rhetoric by pointing out that the US has done great things as well, but those aren't what's being discussed.
Re:So embarassing (Score:5, Insightful)
What's important today is what America is doing today. What great things has America done recently (as in the last 10 years; usually people want to talk about WWII for some reason, which was over long before they were born)? As an American, I can't think of a whole lot.
I can't imagine that you'll agree, but (Score:3, Informative)
Let's look at Iraq:
USAID reports significant progress
In the areas of health care:
* Vaccinated over 3.2 million children under five and 700,000 pregnant women with vaccination campaigns and monthly immunization days.
* Provided supplementary doses of vitamin A for more than 600,000 children under two and 1.5 million lactating mothers, and iron folate supplements for over 1.6 million women of childbearing age.
Re:So embarassing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So embarassing (Score:3, Interesting)
Ever heard of The War of 1812 [wikipedia.org]? This was started by corporations and corrupt politicians less than 40 years aft
Re:So embarassing (Score:5, Funny)
Kind of off-topic, but your signature is also a bit embarassing:
Last I looked, Referrer is spelled with 4 "r"s, not one OR 2.
R - e - f - e - R - R - e - R
(capitalized/capitalised* so you can't miss them)
*spelling varies depending on continent :-)
Col. Twopointseven was a true hero. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So embarassing (Score:3, Interesting)
After a little reflection, I still don't view it that way. IBM, after all, are the good guys here and they're American too.
IMO, it's a "stupid company thing". And believe me, there are quite a few of those outside the US, too.
Next they'll want (Score:2, Funny)
Still damaging (Score:5, Insightful)
But as long as it can stay in the news, it will keep damaging Linux's reputation; other pepole keep hearing the general news of "Linux being under attack".
The big question, and what we should hope for is: when will SCO's whining
Re:Still damaging (Score:2)
Couldn't this be wrong? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Couldn't this be wrong? (Score:2)
Re:Couldn't this be wrong? (Score:2)
That's why there is no 2.7 such changes are being pushed into 2.6
Re:Couldn't this be wrong? (Score:2)
Couldn't it be said that SCO is really asking for future plans on major additions to the kernel in asking for planned additions to 2.7, rather than simply asking for data about a piece of code which does not yet exist?
It could, but when you're dealing with lawyer-speak and all of that "letter of the law" mumbo-jumbo, asking for thw 2.7 kernel means asking for the 2.7 kernel. Otherwise they would have asked for "the latest development kernel".
Re:Couldn't this be wrong? (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, don't forget the deadline for closure of fact discovery is rapidly looming (27th Jan 2006 according to Groklaw's timeline of the IBM case [groklaw.net]) and since SCO doesn't have anything they need to manufacture a delay somehow. I would be very surprised if they get it though.
Typos (Score:3, Insightful)
While I usually go easy on people for making typographical errors like this, and dislike nit-picking over such things by an online community of hecklers, it's pretty funny.
FYI, to those who haven't scanned the pdf, they also request:
So it doesn't seem to indicate that the memo is null and void, or that the lawyers don't know anything about technology, just that the lawyers are being very hasty and don't check their facts. Of course, SCO has not demonstrated much regard for "facts" at all in this case.
Well, its my turn to demand something of SCO (Score:2, Funny)
Waited For It (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Waited For It (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, IBM could have bought them for a fraction of the cost of litigation, but
coupla thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, the Court generally allows very wide latitude in discovery, certainly including such wild speculative fishing trips as this one. The principle is that the parties should have maximal access to any information that could even conceivably help their case. Not just in the interests of justice, that is, so that the parties can make the best case they can, but also in the interests of finality. You don't want the loser appealing the judgment or otherwise coming back to Court again because they can argue some sliver or other of information wasn't available, and if it had been it might've made all the difference, blah blah blah. You want people to believe the Court gave the losing party every conceivable imaginable chance to make their case -- and they just couldn't.
IBM knows this, too, of course, and that is why they cooperate in the discovery, and why they won't settle. They want the SCO lawyers to make the very best case that can possible be made, so that after SCO loses, this issue is dead, dead, dead and no one will even think about bringing another case like it ever again, and no Court will ever entertain it. IBM does not hire stupid lawyers.
No Plan? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why are we assuming that, since we're in the 2.6 branch that they have no intention of moving into a 2.7.
Isn't that called development?Second of all, why would IBM have information about it? And why does SCO care?
Re:No Plan? (Score:3, Informative)
If I were IBM (Score:2)
In other filings... (Score:5, Funny)
I am now convinced that someone at SCO has flipped their lid and become a paranoid schizophrenic. Either that, or they are aiming at a career on the Comedy Channel once SCO sinks without trace.
And IBM will refuse to comply. (Score:3, Funny)
:)
Of course they want the 2.7 kernel... (Score:5, Funny)
1.0 (Score:2)
read TFA. it's probably a typo. (Score:3, Insightful)
The boldfaced line is the only one in the motion where the "2.7" appears.
Now, do you really think that they intended to demand code contributed to a nonexistent project? Or that perhaps, just maybe, someone fat-fingered "2.6?"
In other words, this is most likely just a silly typo. Nothing to see, move along.
Re:read TFA. it's probably a typo. (Score:5, Informative)
The transcripts of the orals give them saying clearly "2.7" in the discussions of the filing.
That means that the Lawyer in question either didn't do his work going into the hearing, relying on the content of the filing- or he genuinely believes there's a 2.7 version. Either way, that doesn't reflect well upon SCO's Counsel.
Re:read TFA. it's probably a typo. (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course now that it has been filed IBM can provide a response that says nothing has been contributed to Linux 2.7 kernel since it does not exist yet.
If SCO comes back and claims that there will be a 2.7 kernel and they know
maybe SCO knows something we don't (Score:2)
Tough week for SCO (Score:2, Funny)
Linus to release notes (Score:3, Funny)
Ow. OwOwOw. (Score:2)
Re:Ow. OwOwOw. (Score:4, Informative)
Wikipedia's got some web-based Ibuprofin for them thar migrane. The Story Thus Far:
This should get you started in learning all you need to know to get you caught up. Hope this helps!
They might as well reveal it ... (Score:4, Funny)
But that's not the funny part. (Score:5, Funny)
In this new motion, SCO is not only saying that she really did order IBM to produce Linux code, but adds a new version (which they also have not previously mentioned) to the list. They're telling Kimball that Wells misunderstood her own orders.
With the cajones on these guys, it's a wonder they can walk.
The Big Issue (Score:4, Insightful)
In a normal court case, when you file the case you need to identify with specificity what your claim is.
In this case, at a minimum, SCO should have detailed, with specificity, what code they beleive is copyright / contract violated and why during the discovery process by now.
This 2.7 thing is a nitpick honestly. The fact that IBM probably has only a limited clue on the details of the copyright and contract claims is a much much bigger deal.
These claims need to be detailed so they can be addressed. They need to identify WHAT Sco says it owns, WHICH contract provision were violated etc.
Surprised there hasn't been more of an effort in this area, and am almost certain that whatever SCO comes with up will continue to be vague. Make that a predicition, IBM will file a motion for clarification after fact discovery ends. They should be getting this on the judges radar NOW however.
Interesting case though.
New CEO at SCO (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/ [welovethei...nister.com]
Shouldn't this be (Score:4, Funny)
IBM should respond... (Score:3, Funny)
Funny, Unless IBM Started It (Score:5, Interesting)
In this light, if IBM did make any casual remarks to 2.7 in its docs then it's IBM who looks like it's hiding development, code, or plans for a future development. Whether it existed or not, the 2.7 kernel was probably referred to as an abstract, future target. If it was mentioned in internal docs, then this call for the missing 2.7 information is just SCO putting IBM's lawyers noses to the grindstone and giving them a complicated distraction to have to explain away to the court.
True, it will amount to nothing in terms of their accusations of stolen code. The 2.7 kernel doesn't exist. But in the final weeks of discovery, it may be a more valuable way to pull IBM's lawyers' focus off other aspects of the case.
Re:Funny, Unless IBM Started It (Score:3, Insightful)
It could well be that IBM had already prepped the judges and told them that if SCO brings up questions about Linux 2.7 then it indicates that they have been unlawfully using IBM's privileged information. If so, it's clobberin' time!
Re:Way To Go Jack@ss! (Score:2)
Re:No 2.7 kernel ever? (Score:2)
Re:And while they are at it... (Score:2)
Re:Impressed (Score:2)