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Privacy Businesses Government Politics

Government To Fix Identity Theft? 219

Posted by Zonk from the unlikely-at-best dept.
Cobb writes "With nearly 50 million identities compromised in the last 6 months, the powers that be are gearing up to fix the problem. 'Prosecutors and privacy experts say that what America needs is a coordinated national strategy. While 15 states require companies to tell consumers if their data has been compromised, there's still no national law.' A new study joins a host of other statistics -- some private, some government-sponsored -- attempting to quantify the size of the ID theft problem. There is no universal agreement on the size of the problem, on the way to count the victims, or even on how to define identity theft."
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Government To Fix Identity Theft? More

Government To Fix Identity Theft?

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  • On the other hand... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:14PM (#12964331) Homepage Journal
    Imagine the savings to industry if we all shared the same identity.

    Databases are a pain to maintain.

  • Let me be the first moron to say . . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:16PM (#12964350)
    . . . it's not identify "theft," it's identity infringement.

    ~~~

    • Re:Let me be the first moron to say . . . (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      darn you, you stole my identity! i am the real Anonymous Coward!
    • No, some people are just identity challenged. You got to be politically correct about these sensitive issues.
    • "...it's not identify "theft," it's identity infringement."
      Well, no.
      "It's not identity "theft", it's identity fraud."

      40 million banking customers have had privledged personal information about them compromised in a
      manner that would suggest that "identity fraud" perpetrated against them is likely at a future time.

      There are also persons walking around with completely fraudulent identity papers - birth certificate, social security number, drivers license, employment history, credit cards and credit history,
  • ... what happens whenever government "coordinates" to "fix" something...

    The so called solution turns out to become much worse than the original problem.

    • The so called solution turns out to become much worse than the original problem.

      I wonder who they will try to pin this problem on? We already invaded Iraq... maybe China? I bet an invasion there would solve the identity theft problem.
    • Yeah, I agree. I cringe whenever I hear the words "government" and "fix" in the same sentence -- even if it's someone saying they can "fix the government," since it's usually someone in the government saying that.

    • Re:Well, we all know... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:43PM (#12964675) Homepage Journal
      "The so called solution turns out to become much worse than the original problem."

      Yeah..this is something I fear. I was reading in the local paper recently...that this could really crush SMALL businesses, that may do simple things like directly charging customers' checking accounts. Basically, this notification could really open so many up to lawsuits, and in our present ligitious society these days...well, I think that is a given.

      Personally, I wish they'd go in the direction of outlawing, the wholesale trading and selling of personally identifiable information...especially the Social Security number...

      I wish they's make it illegal to use it as an identifier in any public database not directly associated with SS taxable income.

      If they didn't have the one person unique identifier out there in so many of these databases...that link so much information together over disparate databases, the theft perhaps wouldn't be as painful or dangerous to the individual.

      I wish they'd make the selling of this data illegal..companies like Acxiom [acxiom.com] scare me really...they have info on most anyone in the US, and when I'd left there years ago, their computer security to the 'net wasn't secure enough to ease my concerns. And they're not the only ones...just one of the big ones.

      • "If they didn't have the one person unique identifier out there in so many of these databases...that link so much information together over disparate databases, the theft perhaps wouldn't be as painful or dangerous to the individual."

        But then they couldn't keep a credit history for you and beat you over the head with it when you refuse to pay some incompetent bozo who bollixed up the last job he did for you. Get used to it: We now have government of the business, by the business, and for the business. And

      • "The so called solution turns out to become much worse than the original problem."
        Yeah..this is something I fear.

        I would think doubly so, since this is the same government that wants a national ID card. You know, to make personal information even more centralized and easy to access. In an ironic way the concept of a national ID card as a homeland security measure might make a person's identity easier to steal, resulting in less security.

        I wish they's make it illegal to use it as an identifier in an

      • I work in the healthcare industry where we're extremely sensitive about SSN, patient information, and so on.

        Banning SSN and other identifiers sounds good on paper, until people think through some of the implications. Right now we have dozens of separate systems that are not linked. Patients in one system may or not be a patient in another. If a doctor prescribes a drug in one system, the other system may not know this.

        Because of these disconnects, the problem of not being able to clearly identify p
    • I'm thinking maybe... just maybe... a national ID card might help out here...

      Yeah... yeah! Who's with me?!?!?

  • A thought ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rlp ( 11898 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:17PM (#12964355)
    Perhaps if banks and merchants would control credit a little better we might not have as much of a problem. They could start by not sending credit card offers to my dog.

    • Re:A thought ... (Score:4, Funny)

      by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:23PM (#12964438) Journal
      Maybe he's more credit worth than you are? ;)

      • Re:A thought ... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by rlp ( 11898 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:29PM (#12964518)
        Maybe he's more credit worth than you are? ;)

        No, the dog is totally irresponsible with credit. :-)

        Anyway, it happened cause I was too cheap to pay extra to have the data phone line (pre-broadband) unlisted. Solution - list the data line in the dog's name. Side effect - ads and credit card offers mailed to to dog.

    • Re:A thought ... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by robertjw ( 728654 )
      They could start by not sending credit card offers to my dog.

      Or not send 10,000 credit offers to my house. I think someone should initiate a class action lawsuit against the US Postal Service for giving mass mailing discounts to these credit card companies making it possible for them to send out so many mailings. If they had to pay $.37 to get a letter delivered like I do we might not have quite as many mailings and less identity theft.
      • "If they had to pay $.37 to get a letter delivered like I do..."

        not to mention cheaper postage!
      • I think someone should initiate a class action lawsuit against the US Postal Service for giving mass mailing discounts to these credit card companies making it possible for them to send out so many mailings.

        A class action lawsuit against an arm of the Federal Government. Get real.

        If they had to pay $.37 to get a letter delivered like I do we might not have quite as many mailings and less identity theft.

        And then, they wouldn't be mailing *anything* and the USPS would make even *less* money than it alr
        • A class action lawsuit against an arm of the Federal Government. Get real.

          Yeah, well, it's a nice idea.

          And then, they wouldn't be mailing *anything* and the USPS would make even *less* money than it already does forcing it to either raise prices even more than they already have (either will cause the USPS to go out of business).

          Ummm... yeah. You say that like it's a bad thing. First, the whole USPS doesn't make any money thing is a myth. Congress swipes all the money they do make to pay other t

      • Re:A thought ... (Score:4, Informative)

        by ptbarnett ( 159784 ) * on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:45PM (#12964697)
        http://www.creditinfocenter.com/cards/preventSellL ists.shtml [creditinfocenter.com]

        Call this one number to opt out of all three bureaus: You can protect yourself from identity theft by taking your name off of the credit bureaus mailing lists. The credit bureaus are one of the biggest offender when it comes to selling your name and information to the credit card companies who in turn send you all those pre-approved applications. One call to the Opt Out Request Line (for Equifax, Trans Union, Experian and Consumer Credit Associates) is all it takes to permanently remove your name from all marketing lists that the credit agencies supply to direct marketers. You can also opt for a two-year period, renewing your request at any time in the future.

        1-888-567-8688

        • We shouldn't HAVE to "opt out" of slimy marketing bullshit. It should be opt IN... ONLY.

          I'm sick of having to call various agencies to opt out of marketing TRASH. Why do we put up with it?
          Oh, that's right.. marketers have more money than us, so they lobby the hell out of congresscritters.

          Ugh.

      • Re:A thought ... (Score:2, Informative)

        by cflannagan ( 870780 )
        Opt Out Prescreen [optoutprescreen.com] I opted out w/this website (it would send the info to all 4 credit reporting bureaus with my opt-out info), and within 5 days, my daily preapproved credit offers went to virtually zero.
        • Some googling shows that this site may just take you off one list but add you to 100 others. Beware.

          • Re:A thought ... (Score:2, Informative)

            by cflannagan ( 870780 )
            "Some googling shows that this site may just take you off one list but add you to 100 others. Beware."

            Actually, it sends opt-out info to 4 credit reporting bureaus.

            And add me to 100 other what? Huh? We don't have 100 "other" credit bureaus. Do you even know what you're talking about?

            I learned of this website from an article about preventing identity theft, published in our local newspaper. I was skeptical at how well the opt-out process would work, but it managed to surprise me.

    • No, your dog should learn not to click on those emails from "Ebay".
    • They could start by not sending credit card offers to my dog.

      Do you ever fill them out for him and send them back with a pawprint on the signature line? Put "home security specialist" as his job title and estimate how much you spend per annum on dog food as his salary.
    • haha! i had a similar thing happened to me. I made up a SPAM name and now that guy receives applications with much higher credit lines than I've ever received!

  • Government to outlaw crime! (Score:5, Funny)

    by PaxTech ( 103481 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:17PM (#12964357) Homepage
    Yep, that'll help. Except for all those criminals who don't obey the law.

    Ronald Reagan was right, the most frightening words in the English language are "Hi, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

    • Yep, that'll help. Except for all those criminals who don't obey the law.

      Right. So why don't we just make everything legal, hm?

      Ronald Reagan was right, the most frightening words in the English language are "Hi, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

      In many cases the government can and should help. If people are stealing, then I want the government to use its powers to stop them.

      • If they actually helped, I'd be for it.

        What they'll probably do in order to "fix" the problem is mandate some incredibly stupid solution that will make all of our lives worse. Just you watch. Whenever the Senate starts debating anything that has a technical component to it, a shiver goes up my spine. The best we can hope is that they don't make it worse.
      • In many cases the government can and should help. If people are stealing, then I want the government to use its powers to stop them

        Trust me, there's a big difference between the beauracratic drones from Federal agencies and your local beat cop. It's pretty obvious which type was being referenced.
    • Way to take what he said completely out of context!
      • How is it taken out of context?
        • You are either lazy or stupid. Go figure it out. The internet is your friend.
          • The full quote is "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - Ronald Reagan

            If I'm taking that out of context, you should tell every quotation site on the web that they're doing the exact same thing. The quote is consistent with Reagan's beliefs about big government, so I don't know how it could be taken out of context.

            I asked you how I was taking the quote out of context out of genuine curiousity, and you respond by calling me names? WTF

    • Re:Government to outlaw crime! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RealityMogul ( 663835 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:32PM (#12964534)
      From TFA (which did not have a lot of details), I got the impression that the laws would be geared toward companies that control your personal information and intimidate them into being responsible with it.

      For once it looks like "hackers" aren't going to be the scapegoat on this one. Although it may be too soon to tell.
  • If the government privated identity management it could not get any worse. Government made monopolies like that on identity management only end in crisis and wasted taxpayer dollars. Oh well. Our government is out of control these days. Can anyone say revolution time? Pitchforks and shotguns!

  • I hope (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I hope they don't form all these comittees, have all these meetings, and make a national law that makes it mandatory for companies to tell us our information has been stolen. It would be better if they passed laws that held these companies more financially responsible for these identify thefts. That would help them beef up security. I think...
  • > [ ... ] There is no universal agreement on the size of the problem, on the way to count the victims, or even on how to define [ ... ]

    "Perfect!"
    - immediate reaction, with accompanying drool spot on table, of every bureaucrat and lobbyist, at every level of government, upon hearing these words, as applied to every issue ever raised for debate.

  • Statistics (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rogue555 ( 671448 )
    A new study joins a host of other statistics -- some private, some government-sponsored -- attempting to quantify the size of the ID theft problem.
    There are three types of falsehood; lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Mark Twain
    • Gotta love Yes Minister statistics quotes:
      Sir Humphrey: If local authorities don't send us the statistics that we ask for, then government figures will be a nonsense.
      Jim: Why?
      Sir Humphrey: They'll be incomplete.
      Jim: But government figures are a nonsense anyway.
      Bernard: I think Sir Humphrey wants to ensure they're a complete nonsense.

      Sir Humphrey: Statistics, you can prove anything with statistics.
      Jim: Even the truth.
      Sir Humphrey: Ye...no.
      [...later that episode...]
      Jim: These figures are just guesse
  • There is no universal agreement on the size of the problem, on the way to count the victims, or even on how to define identity theft.


    This seems pretty standard for anything involving politics. Nobody can agree on anything.

    Here in Minnesota; we are on our first day of a state government shutdown because nobody could agree on a stinkin' budget.

    Way to go guys!

  • Wrong Approach (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ndansmith ( 582590 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:20PM (#12964400)
    Rather than add layer upon layer of legislation to deter the crime of ID theft, we need to fundamentally change our system. We need to make ID theft impossible, or at least a moot point.

    It is silly that someone can committ such fraud just because they collect some numbers (SSN, phone, address, Credit Card, Driver's License, Passport). What we need is a system where simply possessing the numbers does not allow for fraud. The solution probably has something to do with biometrics. Of course, criminals will work against that too, but I just don't see how we can legislate ID theft into submission.

    • Re:Wrong Approach (Score:4, Informative)

      by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:33PM (#12964556) Homepage
      Biometrics is not the approach. That suffers from the exact same problems, only they are one worse: Once your biometric data is stolen, you cannot get a new fingerprint issued.

      Your biometrics are just a number, so once someone has that number then they can impersonate you. Ex: You want to do an online credit card purchase, so you scan your thumbprint. Great! You send it to someone else, and now they have your thumbprint.

      This can be best prevented by using encryption and such, but then those things can be applied to existing methods so the biometric data didn't help.

    • Re:Wrong Approach (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Twanfox ( 185252 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:34PM (#12964579)
      Biometrics is not an end-all, be-all solution. Any electronic data can be compromised. ANY. Digitally encoded biometric data, hardened database, etc. can all be broken or circumvented. It seems stupid to me why people push 'passwords' that you cannot change and/or change themselves over time (biometrics). If this information is ever compromised, and odds are it will eventually, then you will not have an option to set it to something that hasn't been.

      Consider this. Fingerprint biometrics. Someone manages to steal a record of your 10 fingerprints, and is capable of reproducing them to fool a biometric sensor. You can no longer be assured that anyone using fingerprint identification is truely you, and what would you change your authentication credentials to after that, your footprint?

      Vein biometrics (hand, as per previously recorded on Slashdot) change based on what you're doing, over time, with vascular problems, etc.

      Fingerprints are unchangable, but you have a limited quantity (10) and after that, you have little recourse.

      Voice prints may be able to be mimiced sufficiently with recorders, or worse, you could be denied access one day because you had a cold.

      Biometrics may be used to help such a system, but they could never take the place of any aspect that may need to be changed at random, such as a password.
    • If the government wants to prevent identity theft why don't they start looking at all the problems that they themselves are creating. SSNs are probably the biggest single liability when it comes to identity theft, and yet all the wonderful new Citizen ID / Real ID/ passport changes that they have been trying to push through are even more inherently insecure.

      Yes, lets broadcast your passport information to everone in the vacinity via RFID, that will make things harder for the terrorists, and safer from iden
    • The biometrics biz doesn't want you to know, but biometrics suck. [schneier.com]

      Even if one were to develop a much better biometric system, there are serious drawbacks. Any biometric key is really just a password that cannot be changed, even if the password has been compromised, or even if the whole system has been cracked wide open.

      Suppose someone invents a "foolproof" retinal scanner system, which is deployed at every point-of-sale terminal in the US. All credit card transactions are verified with the retinal scann
    • It is silly that someone can committ such fraud just because they collect some numbers

      You've obviously never worked tech support and dealt with a horde of users who forget passwords and angrily demand an easy way (and easily spoofed) way to be told it.
    • The way to do it would be abolish banks. Your employer should have to pay you in gold which you would carry around in bags to pay for things.

  • Just pisses me off (Score:5, Insightful)

    by airrage ( 514164 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:20PM (#12964401) Homepage Journal
    Logic would dictate that your information is private BY DEFAULT, as in other enlightened countries.

    The only way to fix the problem is not to have all these laws after the fact, but to stop the sharing at the source. For example, you sign-up at a bank for a new account. You cannot at that time ask for you information not to be shared. You must call up later and say:

    1) I don't want my information shared to third-parties.
    2) I don't want my information shared to afflilated companies.
    3) I don't want any offers, etc.

    If you miss one your screwed. Just think of all the things you've registered for where your information is flying around. It's absolutely unstoppable.

    I'd love to do a credit freeze on my account, but in Texas you can only do that AFTER you prove to the credit companies that your a victim of identity-theft. That's like handing out a condom after rape.

    The credit-bureaus snap back that without access to the sea of "metadata" people won't get all these advertisements for low-interest lows and crap like that. Makes me want to puke.

    Maybe we can change out our SSN#s every so often, but otherwise I assume having your identity stolen will be common-place in 5 to 10 years.

    Peace out!
    Happy 4th.

  • Government To Fix Identity Theft?

    Ha! Ha ha!

    ...

    Oh! Ummm, if you're looking for the answer, it's no.

  • We just need to identify the identity thiefs by gathering more identity data.
  • "If this were an illness, Congress and the United States would be calling for an all-out war on this illness, because it would be critical for the American people."

    Here we go... The War on Identity Theft!

    I am really sure this WILL be as effective as the war on drugs.

    Lets see:

    1) First we will lose our right to any form of privacy at all. ( for our safety of course )

    2) The subdermal chips are coming!

    3) The usual arguments about "the number of the beast."

    4) Wacky holdouts living in the woods in Montana
  • It was actually the same ID used maliciously 50 million times. Why the Social Security office SSN 123-45-6789 to Mr. John Smith of Main Street is beyond me...

  • It's about time, but it won't help. (Score:5, Informative)

    by WidescreenFreak ( 830043 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:26PM (#12964475) Homepage Journal
    The issue is gaining momentum, with several bipartisan proposals aimed at restricting the use of Social Security numbers and creating a new cyber-security center. The latest bill would require companies that collect data to tighten controls and tell customers how that information is used.

    Good! It's by no means the silver bullet in identity theft, but I really get sick of having companies ask for my SSN when it's none of their goddamned business! Even when I took Sun certifiation exams, the unique identifier that they wanted to use was my SSN! Exactly what business is it of a certification examination center to have my (or anyone's) SSN?

    The problem, however, is one that government will never be able to fix - consumer stupidity. It's staggering that people are so shocked when they find out that their identity was stolen, yet they will look at you dumbfounded if you ask them:

    * Do you shred all of your mail, bank statement, receipts, and so forth before throwing them away?
    * Do you make sure to never purchase from e-mails that you didn't ask for?
    * Do you make sure to purchase on-line through secure, HTTPS connections?
    * Do you willingly give out information to people on the phone who claim to be from one business or another?

    I'm sure that the government will do what it can (even if it further tramples on our individual rights one way or another) but until the general public stops their carelessness with personal information or materials that contain personal information, identity theft will keep going and going just like that damned rabbit.
    • Add a condition:

      * Do you make sure you're not typing private information (such as SSN or bank account numbers) on the keyboard of your windows machine, the one in the den where you persist in running IE and Outlook and click on every damn banner, the one that runs 317 pieces of spyware, 89 trojans and 11 keyloggers and is so slow it takes 40 minutes to open AOL dialer, and oh by the way this frantic call on your phone answering machine is your credit card fraud department asking you if they should approv

    • Identity theft is not just from online transactions.. You should add:

      *Do you sit there and watch the waiter run your credit card at the resturaunt?
      *When was the last time you ran a credit report?

      I find it shocking how many companies I don't know have my credit information. I find it very, very shocking that my dogs freaking VET wants my SSN..

  • The first step is to identify the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by taustin ( 171655 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:26PM (#12964479) Homepage Journal
    The reason identify theft is the fasteest growing problem is that a lot of crimes that used to be called something else is now called identify theft.

    Someone steals your credit card number and orders porn? That's no longer credit card fraud, that's identity theft.

    Someone forges a check against your bank account for porn? That's no longer check fraud, that's identity theft.

    Somebody ordering a pizza in your name, because they can't afford porn? That's no longer a phone prank, that's identity theft.

    Nearly all economic crime can now be classified as identity theft. Nearly all is being so classified.

    It's impossible to tell how much of a problem there is, at this point. We're all too distracted by watching the sky falling.

    • Re:The first step is to identify the problem. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:59PM (#12964833)

      Someone steals your credit card number and orders porn? That's no longer credit card fraud, that's identity theft.

      Someone forges a check against your bank account for porn? That's no longer check fraud, that's identity theft.

      Somebody ordering a pizza in your name, because they can't afford porn? That's no longer a phone prank, that's identity theft.


      So, you're saying the answer to identity theft is free porn?
      • So, you're saying the answer to identity theft is free porn?

        I think the answer to every problem involves free porn. I think we need a Cabinet level position, to advise the President. A Department of Porn, to use our tax dollars to produce top quality porn.

        I mean, really, think about how much less spam we'd have if every American taxpayer were entitles to top quality, government produced porn.

  • Best idea I've heard (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stinerman ( 812158 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:32PM (#12964543)
    Identity "theft" is not the fault of the offended party, so why should they have to spend their resources fixing it?

    The best idea yet is that unless the creditor can prove that you authorized any purchases made on your account, then they have to eat it. It is the creditor's job to make sure they know who to whom they are giving credit. It is then ultimately their responsibility to track down identity thieves. If their internal policies are so lax, that they don't know their customers from a hole in the ground, then they need to shape up. I think that this policy is the only way to get them to fix these problems, by hurting their bottom line.
    • "Caveat creditor."
      It's about friggin time.
    • It already works like that. If you see a charge on your CC statement that you don't think belongs there - complain to the CC company. They'll reverse it. The problem with ID theft is more serious things like, someone else selling your house. Someone else using your social security or employment insurance, so that when you need it, there isn't any funds left and so on.
  • 'Paedophiles to fix children abuse problem'

    'Oil companies to fix Kyoto treaty'

    'Microsoft to fix GPL'

    Um, news at $time_of_news_at_local_location?
  • Haven't they put senators on no-fly lists, before?
    Yeah, they'd be great for keeping identities separate and secure.

  • encrypted keys (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vossman77 ( 300689 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:41PM (#12964650) Homepage
    how about instead of storing our information we have some sort of password (credit card number, ssn, etc.) that gets encrypted and all we have to do is match the code (obviously not sha1, maybe sha1024). Then there is a big book of codes that everyone can see, but only the individual knows the pass.

    Just trying to promote discussion. Please feel free to attack any loop holes in my argument. Or you can just call me an idiot.
  • ...that strike fear into the hearts of mortal man:

    Government To Fix...

  • We just agree on a biometric standard? Then instead of worrying about whether somebody stole some silly precious number of yours, you could log in to your computer with a retinal scan or something and be done with it? (Yes. I know there are issues with biometrics, but certainly a triple-system from different vendors, locked into tamper-resistant hardware -- there has to be a solution available, right?) I was blogging about something like that this morning
    New Biometric Device From Fujitsu [whattofix.com]
  • California allows residents to put a block on all approvals for credit in their name. Credit isn't issued unless that person is tracked down and approves it.

    This ought to be made federal law. It wouldn't eliminate identity theft but it would drastically reduce much of the resulting fraud.

  • I should think coming up with a definition would be easy. Here's one:

    Identity Theft: when one party successfully represents themselves as a second party during a transaction with a third party, using documents and information that belong to the second party, and that have been obtained without the second party's knowledge or permission.

    There ya go, that one's free. Now either figure out a way to stop it, or stop feeding it with all these "convenient" opportunities for faceless transactions between strange

  • Sure... just write a law that makes it illegal, that'll solve the problem.

    Just like anything else that was outlawed.

    * We have no more spam, since it was outlawed a short while ago.
    * We have no illicit drugs, either, right?
    * We temporarily "eradicated" alcohol. Remember that from your history classes?
    * Hell, we've eliminated ALL illegal criminal activity by simply legislating them away.
    * Et cetera, ad nauseam, ad absurdum.

    Riiiighht...
  • Remember, it's not theft if there is nothing physical involved - it's merely identity infringement, and perfectly legal in many countries. Only the US goes overboard and makes a big deal over a little harmless identity infringement in their usual heavy handed, overbearing way.

  • Easy Solution: Limit Personal Information Sharing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by $criptah ( 467422 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @04:59PM (#12964841) Homepage

    The next step is to limit sharing of personal information; this is something that some states have achieved.

    Make sure that lists are opt-in. Businesses must ask personal permission at all times.

    Higher penalties for stealing mail or other personal information that is used for wrong purposes.

    Require online businesses to use secured connections for better protection.

    Hold banks, credit card, loan agencies, etc. accountable for credit history fuckups.

    Require timetables on identity theft resolutions; have businesses pay for it.

    Fine companies for losing personal information.

    If this does not work, let people buy cheap guns and shoot mother fuckers who commit or contribute to identity theft. Why should people sit in silence if credit card industry gets a fat profit that is growing from year to year? Make those fuckers responsible for their fuckups.

  • the answer is easy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @05:00PM (#12964856)
    but no one will want to do it.

    Apply the same privacy and security standards to financial institutions that HIPAA [hhs.gov] requires.

    I went to work on a PC at a doctors office, it was the machine that contains patient records.
    That machine was forbidden from being connected to the internet in ANY way what-so-ever and was forbidden from being connected to their inhouse LAN.

    The STAND ALONE machine had a modem in it but it was only allowed to connect to a certain system through a single dial-up line.
    No other use of the machine was permitted. It had no disc drives so it was not possible for employees to install stuff from home or to copy things from it.
    The machine was pretty damn isolated from the outside world.

    Of course that will never happen with financial institutes because they WANT these things to happen, that way the people will cry for more security. And they will get it, with Orwellian security like retina scans and sooner or later, DNA scans, like in the movie GATTACA [wikipedia.org]

    Personally, I have no financial anything. I don't use banks at all in any form. I have no credit, I have no savings or checking accounts, I have no credit cards.
    I live strictly by cash alone. Everything I own is paid for. I pay utility bills with green cash, in person at the local grocery store. I owe no one for anything.
    You want to steal my identity? I don't give a shit, go ahead, I don't use it anyway..

  • Reminds me of a bumper sticker/shirt idea I wanted to try:

    "We're the government: we don't make promises, only threats."
  • The government creates new programs to fix their old programs which have created new problems when they failed to fix some other program. Instead of just cancelling the offending program, we introduce a new program to deal with it.

    It is not the job of government to solve all of our problems. More government is almost never the answer to any problem. The problem here is the credit system and lack of accountability on the part of businesses for identity fraud. The banking system doesn't suffer nearly as

  • The problem is us (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GlL ( 618007 ) <gil AT net-venture DOT com> on Friday July 01, 2005 @05:11PM (#12964970)
    We want to be able to walk into a car delership, bank, electronics store and walk out with whtever it is we want on credit. The only way this is possible is for the financiers to have access to our "credit history" to see what interest level they can shaft us with. If we are so ticked with identity theft, the quickest cure is for us to have a little patience and wait a couple of days for purchase confirmation on big ticket items, and callbacks on others.

    Let's say you go to an online merchant and made a purchase. The financial institution should then call you at the phone numbers of record, that you gave when you opened the account, to confirm that it is indeed you that is making the purchase. This would maybe slow us down, and horror of horrors may force us to actually think about whether or not we actually need whatever it is that we are purchasing.

    We have been so trained to want things instantly that we are willing to give up part of our financial security for immediate "satisfaction".

    Sorry for the rant, but it isn't just the companies that are to blame, and a solution that punishes the institutions without challenging our ways of thinking about the way we approach our finances is only going to change the problem's appearance, not fix it.
    • Mod parent up, I ran out of points to use.

      I never thought of it that way, but you are 100% correct. Of course the problem is their is nothing I can do, since this is jsut the way things work now. There is no switch that says "I will not be doing any credit like things in the next year" anywhere.

  • FTC is involved I see... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Killer Instinct ( 851436 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @05:17PM (#12965025) Journal
    Funny how fast things happen when the FTC Chief [cnn.com] gets their credit card info stolen..

  • NEWS: FTC chief's credit card info stolen (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This just in....

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Federal Trade Commission stays busy helping (m) millions of Americans who fall victim to identity theft each year. But one recent victim is the head of the agency, Deborah Platt Majoras. An FTC spokeswoman says Majoras has been notified by shoe retailer DSW that her credit card information was stolen. Her credit card number was among one-point-four (m) million that were stolen from a company database.

    http://www.tampabays10.com/weird/weird_article.asp x?storyi [tampabays10.com]

  • Just remember to cross reference it to the old ones first...
  • companies should not be allowed to "own" information about a person period. telling consumers is "good" only in that its more than currently happens but it does nothing to solve the problem of information being kept when and where it should not.

  • The problem is replay (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Larthallor ( 623891 ) on Friday July 01, 2005 @06:33PM (#12965562)
    Want to solve identity theft? Stop making the authentication so easily replayed.

    Identity theft is too easy for two reasons:

    1. The best uniquely identifying piece of information (in the US) is the SSN. It is a perfect username. And yet, we keep using it as both the username AND the password. It is stupid. Just because I know a unique name for a person shouldn't mean I can open a line of credit for him/her.

    2. Even if there were a separate "secret" password, it wouldn't be secret once used. Every time you prove to someone that YOU are you in the current system, you empower that person to prove that HE is you. Let me say that again, because it is important: every time you prove to someone that YOU are you in the current system, you empower that person to prove that HE is you. And, even if you trust that guy, the information you have given can be stolen or lost by him and used by someone else you don't trust.

    Instead, we need to find a good way to make public-key encryption work for the masses. Public-key encryption can be used to safeguard one's identity because the authentication is not so easily replayed.

    Imagine a dedicated piece of hardware, similar in form-factor to a credit-card-sized calculator, complete with LCD display and numeric keys. Have that card be able to generate key-pairs and easily display and transmit the public key. Then, set up a ubiqitous public key infrastructure that financial institutions and others can use to verify that the public key you give them is really yours.

    The government can actually be of help here. Nearly everyone in the US has to go to the DMV and get a driver's license. There is actually quite a bit of identity verification that goes on there, certainly compared to what goes on at a credit-card bank. If the DMV also provided a free key-signing service, then people could bring their key cards in and get their public-keys signed as belonging to the actual person in question.

    Then, when a company that wants to authenticate that you really are who you claim to be, they can sign a challenge and send it to you. Your key-card can verify that the challenge is legitimate, and respond by signing their challenge using the stored private key. This private key, btw, would never be accessible off the card or shown in the LCD display.

    The neat part about this is that the credentials necessary to prove you are you are never anywhere but that key-card in your possession. It can't be stolen from the bank's computer system or replayed by a retail clerk. Even if it gets physically stolen, they would need your PIN number to use it.

    Also, because this would be mandated and use open standards, no one bank or institution would need to shoulder the costs. Each individual would have to purchase a conforming card only once and be able to use it for all financial transactions.
  • ... they would help prevent the usage of Social Security or Driver's License numbers for purposes which they were never intended for. Those numbers were intended to facilitate a government program or priviledge, not act as target for every living American. It's nothing short of ridiculous that my entire life can be destroyed, simply through the loss of one of perhaps half a dozen 7 to 10 digit numbers.

    Though I strongly oppose the basis for the Real ID, I'm hoping that it's introduction will consolidate the

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