Court Denies Smucker's PB&J Patent 388
lbmouse writes "The AP is reporting that on Friday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit rejected an effort by the Jelly & Jam maker to patent its process for making pocket peanut butter and jelly sandwiches." While the company was only trying to patent the "crimping process" used to create a specific type of mass market sandwich, they had also "...asked Albie's Foods of Gaylord, Mich., to stop producing ready-made PB&J sandwiches for a school district".
OMG! (Score:4, Funny)
IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME! [ebaumsworld.com]
Re:OMG! (Score:3, Insightful)
Hell it is still kinda
amusing I guess
Re:OMG! (Score:3, Funny)
What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brown's (Score:5, Informative)
For those that don't RTFA, Smucker actually allready had a patent from 1995, but this rejection "involved two additional patents that Smucker was seeking to expand its original patent by protecting its method." I.e. they still have the original patent for their method of making a P&J sandwich, but "the company's original patent is being re-examined by the patent office."
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease [komar.org]
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:5, Informative)
One major point on the patent was that, when making a PBJ, the J seeps through the bread. To solve that problem, Smuckers put PB on BOTH pieces of bread.
And patented that!
They got a patent on putting PB on both bread slices instead of just one!
And we wonder how the one-click-order got patented!
Good Idea (Score:2, Funny)
Except, peanut products cause me to um... die. Now if they could just keep that from happening, that would be awesome!
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:3, Funny)
more mom techniques (Score:3, Funny)
Gee, when I was a kid, my mom taught me to put regular butter on the jam side for exactly that reason. If only we'd known it was such an "innovative" idea, I'd be the son of a millionaire right now!
Or maybe it's the use of peanut butter instead of regular butter that makes it quite so new and innovative and inobvious? Yeah, substituting peanut butter for butter on a PBJ - nobody would *ev
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:5, Informative)
Unless Smuckers came up with a really unique way of 'crimping the edges' to seal the sandwich, then I'd have to argue against it on the basis of prior art going back to a tool that I first saw back when I was a Boy Scout; it was two metal rods hinged together at one end with handles at the other, sort of like a nutcracker, but the arms were about two feet long. Near the hinge on each rod was a circular dished metal plate. You buttered two slices of bread, put one on one of the plates, added some filling (jam, meat, PB&J, etc), put the other slice on top, and closed the arms; this clamped the two plates together, cutting off the crust and sealing the 'sandwich' inside; you then stuck it into a fire to brown the bread, giving you a sort of pasty or fruit pie (depending on the filling. And this was back in the late '60s, so 'prior art' has been around for a while.
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What's next - patenting how Mom makes Hash Brow (Score:3, Insightful)
Damn.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Damn.. (Score:2)
Re:Damn.. (Score:2)
I'll buy that for a dollar.
Oh man (Score:2, Funny)
In a post 9/11 world... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In a post 9/11 world... (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm... or...
In an post-9/11 world, if the jelly of terrorism seeps through the bread of freedom, then the terrorists have already won!
Re:In a post 9/11 world... (Score:2, Funny)
In Soviet Russia, Crimps sandwich you!
Jesus! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am ready to join the protesters who want to destroy corporate america. The ones who go to G7 meetings and economic forums and fight the nasty police. If some asshole wants to deprive me of the right to a PB&J sandwich because they have a patent, motherfuck them. The corporations have too much power. Too many lobbyists. And the laws are getting rediculous.
Re:Jesus! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Jesus! (Score:5, Insightful)
If the system was working the way it was supposed to, this patent & 90% of the others would be laughed out of the Patent Office front door.
The fact that the _backup_ system (the U.S. Court of Appeals) managed to work in THIS ONE CASE, hardly means that the system is working the way it's supposed to.
Re:Jesus! (Score:4, Informative)
But it was. The USPTO cited ravioli as prior art. Smucker's appealed the denial of their application, and that's how it got into court.
US Army... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:US Army... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:US Army... (Score:3, Interesting)
the absolute best portable meal is a PB&J on a flour tortilla. you can roll them up tight and fit 4 of them in a ziplock space where one sandwich fits. plus they can be crushed more without damage. Excellent portable meals for hiking, climbing and hang gliding or other aspects needing portable, dur
As an aussie (Score:3, Informative)
Re:As an aussie (Score:2)
"Uncrustables" (Score:4, Informative)
Apparently they are found in the frozen foods aisle of the grocery store as the the page says, "All you do is thaw and serve."
Re:"Uncrustables" (Score:5, Interesting)
And FYI, we should be getting about 500-2400mg of sodium a day, but the average American consumes something like 3000-6000mg per day, because we eat so much prepackaged food.
Re:"Uncrustables" (Score:3, Funny)
Stop with the informatives on meaningless posts (Score:3, Informative)
Yes yes..Evil company is bad sticking sodium into this food so they can kill our children...I love how you point out that Jelly has 0 mg of sodium and yet these things have 260 mg... Gee..I wonder why..
Let me go make my own..Ok..I'll start with 2 slices of healthy wheat bread. Add a serving of peanut
Re:Humanity at its lowest (Score:2)
Re:As an aussie (Score:2)
Nonobvious, I guess.
Re:As an aussie (Score:3, Informative)
1) Take 2 slices of bread
2) Dollop PB&J in the center
3) Put a ring on top, and one on bottom, smash the rings together crushing the dough into a crimped solid bit of dough.
Heres a product link [smuckers.com]
Re:As an aussie (Score:2, Funny)
Re:As a lazy-ass (Score:3, Informative)
Earth to lazy-ass, come in lazy-ass.
These things taste like ass, lazy, pre-processed ass
It takes about 90 seconds to put together a real PBJ sa
We responded, now you explain vegimite... (Score:2)
especially vegimite sandwiches...
Re:As an aussie (Score:2)
Re:As an aussie (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, they can be a PITA like that.
KFG
Re:As an aussie (Score:2)
That reminds me: if I pureed a bunch of PETA people and served them up in a PITA, would I be a PITA or just in jail?
Jam, jelly, preserves, marmalade (Score:4, Interesting)
I think that preserves are like jam, but even chunkier.
Preserves might not include pectin, but don't quote me on that.
OK, here are some "official" definitions:
Here are the relationships between the various substances, as I understand them: Or, in Python: I hope that this helps distinguish between the various types of delicious fruit-derived toppings for sandwiches, English muffins, etc.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.
Re:Jam, jelly, preserves, marmalade (Score:4, Funny)
class fruit_derived_topping:
# etc.
No, in Python thats:
Sausage egg and jam, bacon egg and jam,
(Viking chorus) Jam! Jam! Jam! Jam! Jam! Jam! Jam! Jam! Lovely Jam! Wonderful Jam!
Trouble (Score:5, Funny)
Thank You! Thank You! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Thank You! Thank You! (Score:4, Funny)
This just goes to show how liberal activist judges are legislating from the bench. How would a real judge- like Judge Scalia- [ucomics.com] handle this? He knows the Constitution is a "dead document", and would have invoked the original intent of the framers.
Peanut butter didn't even exist until 1890. The original framers of the Constitution lived in the 1790s and would have been completely befuddled by the creamy tasty goodness of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Ergo, it is nonobvious, patentable, and the court was unjustified in rejecting Smuckers' efforts to patent the device.
Slow news day... (Score:4, Funny)
PB&J vs. Technology (Score:5, Insightful)
There are software patents being passed that are 100 times more ridiculous than this, yet you don't hear much about it outside of Slashdot or some short blurb in the tech section of the NYT.
Most of these software patents are just as absurd as patenting a method of making a PB&J sandwich, often worse. A "System and method for creating, processing and managing educational content within and between schools," [uspto.gov] I mean come on, or a "method and system for processing input from a command line interface." [uspto.gov]
I wish the general public would realize the ramifications of software patents like these. It is essentially re-patenting the wheel.
Re:PB&J vs. Technology (Score:3, Insightful)
In other words, no one is going to fix until we get the USPTO-induced equivalent of flying airplanes into buildings.
After all, Congress is too busy roadblocking each other over judicial nominees or debating back and forth to decide if Social
Re:PB&J vs. Technology (Score:2, Interesting)
Already been done. [bbc.co.uk]
With a name like Smucker's (Score:4, Funny)
ob old commercial (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ob old commercial (Score:5, Insightful)
ROFL. If I had mod points, I would mod that insightful. LOL.
Seriously, we need to do something about patent law. It is getting to be a joke. I remember when anyone could work on their car. I bet in 5-10 years there will be systems that GM and Ford and Toyota will patent so only they can fix it, and charge much more money. People joke about patents to blow jobs. Wait til you get a sunshine job, and the bill.
When did patent law become a way to make a monopoly?
Re:ob old commercial (Score:5, Insightful)
That was always the point. When you file a patent, you share your idea in exchange for a monopoly for a limited time. The problem is that the patent office is being bombarded by applications so they just figure "grant everything and let the courts sort it out". The problem with that is that it allows deep pocket companies to bully anyone they want by filing for ridiculous patents.
There is nothing wrong with patent law ... (Score:4, Insightful)
We don't need to do anything about patent law. What we need desperately is to do something about proper enforcement of the existing rules.
Patent law forbids granting patents on inventions for which there is prior art. Yet there is a flood of patents for which there is prior art which is against existing patent law.
Patent law forbids granting patents on inventions which are obvious deductions from prior art. Yet there is a flood of patents which do not meet the criteria of non-obviousness, again against existing patent law.
Patent law also forbids granting patents on applications which are not described in enough detail to allow persons skilled in the art to carry out the invention (ie build the apparatus). Yet there is a flood of fuzzy patents which were not specified in the required detail, yet again against existing patent law.
The one primeval problem there is with the patent system today is that enforcement of existing legislation is anywhere from too lax to non-existant. That is the issue we ought to acknowledge and do something about.
The fact that we, the public, do not acknowledge this to be the root cause, that we usually talk nonsense when it comes to patent issues, that we consequently do not lobby for better enforcement, this only works into the hands of those who abuse the system, who take advantage of the lack of enforcement of patent law.
next thing you know (Score:5, Funny)
Re:next thing you know (Score:4, Funny)
She hasn't tried the "I don't have a business license" excuse yet?
The article, with my analysis... (Score:4, Funny)
One of a kind way to make PB&J sandwiches. I hate to tell these asshats, I was making PB and Strawberry sandwiches for ages. When I was younger I used to cut the edge of the bread off, but today I need the extra fiber.
Maybe I should patent that I whipe my ass with the paper going upwards and not downwards. Who knows, maybe I am the only one who knows how to whipe an ass.
Patent examiners at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office disagreed, saying the crimped edges are similar to making ravioli or a pie crust.
Fuck, here comes Chef Boy-R-D and his patent lawyers. Someone tell that 90 year old woman she is no longer lawfully allowed to make her family dinner.
Smucker asked Albie's Foods of Gaylord, Mich., to stop producing ready-made PB&J sandwiches for a school district, but the food manufacturer went to a federal judge in 2001 and then the patent office to invalidate Smucker's original patent. Albie's was "caught off guard, literally, because they didn't think you could patent a peanut butter and jelly sandwich," said the company's lawyer, Kevin Heinl.
Can my girlfriend patent the blow job? She is damn good. She swirls her tounge, head down, but the eyes looking up like a puppy dog. Like "oh dear daddy, I love you". Just like that. Nobody else does it like her. I'd like to get a nickle everytime your girlfriend gives you a blow job.
The patent office received 376,810 patent applications last year. It usually takes about two-and-a-half years for a patent to be processed. About 65 percent of all patents submitted are approved, Quinn said.
There were over 200,000 patents approved last year? Sweet Jesus. I really should get around to a but whipe patent.
"Very few patents are what one would call a 'pioneer patent,' meaning that the inventor discovered something very, very new that has never been discovered before," she said. "Most patents are given to changes to existing technology."
I'll dip the toilet paper in water. That's it.
"We bought a unique idea for making an everyday item more convenient (and) made a significant investment in the idea and in developing the innovative manufacturing technology that makes Uncrustables so easy to use," the company said.
I wonder how this ruling will effect the Pop Tart corporation?
Smucker's stock price fell 30 cents on Friday to close at $49.67 on the New York Stock Exchange.
I can hear Gordon Gekko yelling "Bud FOX, Damn you!". I wish we knew how this PB&J thing really played out.
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:2)
You'd end up pretty broke depending on this crowd for that.
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:2)
I only deal with the facts, sir.
This reminds me of two people I knew in highschool. One went to an Ivy League university and then to Yale Law School. The other went to community college, then the state U, then the U of Law School. The Yale lawyer could tell you the rights and responsibilities of a banana. The U of Lawyer was a pit bull. Plus, he could hold down his beer. Wanna guess who I would hire if I needed a laywer?
But you toast your friends
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:2)
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:2)
I hate the spelling Nazi's.
Re:The article, with my analysis... (Score:5, Funny)
The patent office rejected a patent? (Score:5, Insightful)
My question is this: if they accepted swinging on a swing [uspto.gov] as worthy of a US patent, why did the USPTO decide to deny Smuckers this one?
The patent WAS granted (Score:2, Informative)
It's starting to look like patents are drifting well past their original purpose. Overhaul the system, or ditch the suckers completely.
Re:The patent WAS granted (Score:2)
"These methods of swinging on a swing, although of considerable interest to some people, can lose their appeal with age and experience. A new method of swinging on a swing would therefore represent an advance of great significance and value."
Still a neat idea I'd like to see in action.
Abstract: Patent Number: 6,874,409 (Score:5, Informative)
A method of making a crustless sandwich from two slices of bread with outer crusts, the method comprising: placing a first slice of bread on a platen; forming a mass of a first food spread onto the central portion of the first slice of bread in a position spaced inwardly from a marginal area where the mass is formed with an inner lower layer with an outer rim extending upwardly from the lower layer to define a closed pocket or receptacle recess in the mass; placing a second food spread in the receptacle recess; closing the receptacle recess with a layer of the first food spread generally coextensive with the mass and supported on the outer rim of the mass to encapsulate the second food spread into a center composite food layer; placing a second slice of bread over the first slice to cover the center composite food layer; cutting the bread slices in unison in a cut pattern to remove the crusts of the slices; and, pressing the two bread slices together by force through the slices against a pressure surface on the platen to crimp the slices into a crustless sandwich.
Re:Abstract: Patent Number: 6,874,409 (Score:2)
Re:Abstract: Patent Number: 6,874,409 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Abstract: Patent Number: 6,874,409 (Score:3, Informative)
You infringe upon the patent when you use this method to create your sandwich without having obtained a license. The idea of patent law is explicitly to make inventions public knowledge. If you would not have figured out how to prepare the sandwich, you could have searched the USPTO database for an appropriate method.
You seem to confuse patent law with the DMCA, where you're not allowed to inform about ho
Average Patent Office Worker (Score:5, Insightful)
Worker: Hey! I could have thought of that... hell, the wife makes one every Tuesday... DENIED.
Patent comes in for a new "technology." A Web site will have a box labeled Username and one labeled Password, and a Submit button that logs on the user to the Web sites system.
Worker: That sounds complex about computer web site things. Must be some new technology. APPROVED.
Re:Average Patent Office Worker (Score:2, Informative)
Although, I doubt mundane facts like that will stop you from ranting about that which you know little to nothing about.
Smuckers... (Score:2)
There are so few things about food and cooking that hasn't been done before that I'm willing to believe it has pretty much ALL been done before. This is pretty ridiculous.
On the other hand, they might be making peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches on crimped bread, I'm making jelly and peanutbutter sandwiches on TOAST! Now *that* has to be patentable because I've never heard of it before and it's nothing like a pie crust or ravioli. (Though m
Re:Smuckers... (Score:2, Interesting)
There is a device called a jaffle iron designed to be held over a fire or stove, it creates 'flying saucers' of toasted bread with whatever filling you want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffle_iron [wikipedia.org]
What has our society come to... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What has our society come to... (Score:2)
This might be funny if not for the fact that one of the BFDs about this 'innovation' is that it keeps the jelly from soaking through the bread.
I wish someone would patent... (Score:2)
Re:I wish someone would patent... (Score:4, Funny)
I would like to be free to whack the USPTO upside the head, without IP encumbrance.
Whose cuisine will reign supreme? (Score:4, Funny)
Somebody pass me a foie gras and salmon roe pocket sandwich, I'm hungry. Today's theme ingredient is Intellectual Property!
What pisses ME off... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not like we don't know the PB&J over here in Holland but come on, a school should primarily serve a nice fresh cheese sandwich or something else without so much sugar.
Re:What pisses ME off... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the land of synthetic imitation cheese-like substances, manufactured in factories that most closely resemble an oil refinery. Who needs cows when you have chemical engineering?
Re:dot dot dot (Score:3, Funny)
Re:dot dot dot (Score:5, Insightful)
The same thing that canaries have to do with coal mines.
Re:dot dot dot (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:dot dot dot (Score:4, Funny)
Who gives a flying fuck?
Re:I don't understand.. (Score:2)
Re:I don't understand.. (Score:5, Informative)
Yes.
Re:Ok, so what about (Score:2)
No. Not people who eat a sandwich with a crust. But people who manufacture or consume ravioli would be in for a surprise.
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
However, 65% of all applications are granted, which means that only the tiniest fraction of all granted patents have any really original content.
Personally, I don't have any objecti
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
I have nothing against patents for true innovation. What I have contempt for is patents that stifle innovation. This is the antithesis of why the system was created, and a large part of how it works now. Without going into too much depth (plenty of discussion around this already), that is what the modern-day patent system is being used as: a weapon against competitors.
What exactly is the difference? It's hard to say and impossible to spell out in detail. Subjectively, I know that crimping the edges o
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:4, Insightful)
I think what offends the "geeks" you're arguing with is that patentability implies that an idea has some novelty and is not obvious to anyone "skilled in the art" to which it pertains. Yet, patents are often granted that violate these principles, sometimes to an absurd extent.
patents are not about incentives, they're about outright survival in a competitive market place.
The purpose it to promote innovation, not to grant monopolies simply for the asking. The government does not owe you success. Success in a competitive marketplace comes from competing successfully.
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
This is a very important point. Few things are perfect the first time around. Often avoiding a patent means developing something even better. And, even if it doesn't, the party involved in developing a solution that others seem to think are critical enough to license deserves a reward. No?
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:3, Insightful)
That's right.
Why?
Why? Are you so special that if someone else works out how to synthesize that drug independently of you, that you should be able to stop them from taking advantage of their own research?
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:5, Insightful)
If there is anything unique about the machines they designed, they should get a patent on that. But they didn't. They got a patent on the sandwich.
The idea of "leaking" the secret about a crimped PBJ with PB on both slices of bread is absurd. It's not innovative, it's obvious, and it took just about zero investment of time and capital to come up with. Here are the exact claims from the patent:
There are two parts to this patent: (1) So the jelly soaks through the non peanut-buttered side. 90% of the population could solve that dillemma in 30 seconds by putting PB on both sides. (2) So the sandwich is loose. Crimp it just like ravioli has been crimped for over a century.
Notice that there is not a single reference to any machine that could make this sandwich. Just two dead-simple ideas that even a person of low intelligence would think of as soon as they saw the problem description.
This is not some mysterious rocket-science research that needs to be nurtured. It's just a sandwich that you could make in your kitchen in 60 seconds, except that now it's illegal.
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:God damn geek anti-patent rants (Score:2)
so Smuckers process of cutting and crimping is NOT novel.
Any patent examiner with half a brain should have thrown Smuckers out of the door. Sadly, it looks like they found one of the ones with only a quarter of a brain...